Adventists, Ellen G. White, failed prophecies and scripture

[kinda]

Heres some links that may help

Ellen G. White® Estate: Issues and Answers

whiteestate.org

Ellen G. White® Estate: The Truth About "The White Lie"

whiteestate.org

Ellen G. White® Estate: Did Ellen White Contradict the Bible over 50 times?

The official Ellen G. White website, Includes online-books and a database of her published writings, an Issues & Answers section, and more. A service of the Ellen G. White Estate., Did Ellen White contradict the Bible over 50 times?

whiteestate.org

Ellen G. White and Her Critics

m.egwwritings.org

My point is, who has the time to study all her writings?!?! I think most people who discount her ministry, haven't given time to try to understand it, especially if your not SDA. That's why I think it's best to leave it to SDA believers, who have been studying this their whole lives.

I couldn't in all honestly have the time to give it a fair shake, but be cautious in dealing with her writings. Like I said, I'm open minded, and undecided. I think the testimony is in the SDA church, if people are inspired by her writings, and have a good testimony, that should give it's some validity.

Most of these talking points by nay-sayers are rarely even discussed from my experience. I mean Ellen White is usually a footnote in Bible studies, rather than a focal point. I think most miss this point, outside of the SDA church.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

My point is, who has the time to study all her writings?!?! I think most people who discount her ministry, haven't given time to try to understand it, especially if your not SDA. That's why I think it's best to leave it to SDA believers, who have been studying this their whole lives.

I couldn't in all honestly have the time to give it a fair shake, but be cautious in dealing with her writings. Like I said, I'm open minded, and undecided. I think the testimony is in the SDA church, if people are inspired by her writings, and have a good testimony, that should give it's some validity.

Most of these talking points by nay-sayers are rarely even discussed from my experience. I mean Ellen White is usually a footnote in Bible studies, rather than a focal point. I think most miss this point, outside of the SDA church.

Most who criticize her have never read one book, its stuff they find on google.

Yes, they have a complete misconception of the role of EGW in the Adventist church. God knows the Truth and that's what matters, Its not about trying to understand, its just attack and nothing anyone will say will change their minds. I am okay with that, its in God's hand He will sort it all out at His soon return!

 

[kinda]

Most who criticize her have never read one book, its stuff they find on google.

Yes, they have a complete misconception of the role of EGW in the Adventist church. God knows the Truth and that's what matters, Its not about trying to understand, its just attack and nothing anyone will say will change their minds. I am okay with that, its in God's hand He will sort it all out at His soon return!

It's a shame. People are missing out. I have gained a wealth of blessings from the SDA church and ministries. I'm honestly surprised, that SDA are still friendly to the general Christian population, since most of the time, they only get grief from the mainstream. I even heard Trump give a little sucker punch on that one political doctor who was SDA, forget his name. lol Ben Carlson?

SDAs have open their homes to me, treated me like family, and welcomed me, even though I'm some what outside of the faith. My biggest compliment I can give to the SDA church, is the depth of the Bible Studies. I think it's college level. It's not watered down lesson by any means. SDAs know their Bibles and are pretty humble about their knowledge. When you get to know these folks, they open up a little, and maybe expose this.

Seriously, this is something that is never talked about. SDAs are some of the most highly educated in the Christian faith in general terms. This is coming from an outsider.

 

[TMS]

According to numerous eyewitness accounts, including several physicians present at the scene, Ellen G. White did not breathe during her visions, which could last from 15 minutes to three hours. Observers, including doctors noted her heart beat regularly and her skin maintained natural color, but she was entirely unconscious of her surroundings, with no discernible lung action until the vision ended.

Key Details on the Phenomenon:
Medical Observations: Physicians like Dr. Lord and Dr. Drummond examined her during these states, with Dr. Drummond stating, "She doesn't breathe," after checking her mouth and nostrils.
Initial & Final Breaths: Upon exiting the vision, witnesses described her taking a deep, long breath, similar to a newborn child, followed by a pause and subsequent natural breathing.
Physical State: Despite not breathing, witnesses observed her speaking, walking, or making gestures while in the vision.

Testings: Skeptics and medical professionals often tested her by holding a mirror before her mouth or pinching her nose, finding no evidence of breath.

Context and Interpretations:
Proponents' View: Supporters view the lack of breathing as evidence of a supernatural, prophetic phenomenon.

Critics' View: Some critics and, skeptics in online discussions, have questioned the validity of the accounts, suggesting possibilities like trickery or comparing it to mesmerism, although the medical accounts at the time were extensive.

If you are not willing to believe you will not.

But the evidence is recorded, she had hundreds of visions in the open with people watching and the miracles are not possible without divine power.

Those that refuse to believe the simple evidence will say it was the devil, but I can't understand how the devil would keep someone alive for 3 hours without breathing.

There are a lot of critic with lots of false accusations but this is just expected..
Which prophet of God in the past was not attacked and severely persecuted?

 

[TMS]

A hope people will read the first 2 chapters of "Desire of Ages" before they throw stones.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

It's a shame. People are missing out. I have gained a wealth of blessings from the SDA church and ministries. I'm honestly surprised, that SDA are still friendly to the general Christian population, since most of the time, they only get grief from the mainstream. I even heard Trump give a little sucker punch on that one political doctor who was SDA, forget his name. lol Ben Carlson?

SDAs have open their homes to me, treated me like family, and welcomed me, even though I'm some what outside of the faith. My biggest compliment I can give to the SDA church, is the depth of the Bible Studies. I think it's college level. It's not watered down lesson by any means. SDAs know their Bibles and are pretty humble about their knowledge. When you get to know these folks, they open up a little, and maybe expose this.

Seriously, this is something that is never talked about. SDAs are some of the most highly educated in the Christian faith in general terms. This is coming from an outsider.

People want a watered-down version of feel good Scripture- I can live however I want or live on what I am comfortable with and end up missing out on the Blessing God is trying to give us with His Sabbath. When I was in the world there was not one thing I did on Saturday Sabbath that was more gratifying than how I spend my Sabbaths now. When Jesus comes I do not believe those who keep this commandment will have any regrets- I wish I had that one last shopping trip, or ball game, or TV marathon or whatever it is that was more important than spending sacred time on the only day God blessed and sactified to do so. I think there will be a lot of regrets forgetting what God said not to.

Have you ever watched the Adventist Defense League? They are on YouTube- they really break down many of the critics with clear, undeniable Scripture. They can get long winded!

Heres some examples

 

[SabbathBlessing]

A hope people will read the first 2 chapters of "Desire of Ages" before they throw stones.

Yes or Steps to Christ.

 

[Aaron56]

Seems the Judaizers have called in all the troops. Let’s keep the information below fresh…

@pinebeach @Magenta @TruthDefender @Just_A__Follower

An SDA member, Dirk Anderson, who left the cult set up a fairly thorough website about his research into Ellen White:

https://www.nonegw.org/

The home page leads to an index of topics.

Be warned: some SDA's created an "anti-Dirk Anderson" response on one of their pages: https://www.ellenwhite.info/dirk_anderson_on_the_bible.htm

The pages (only two for Mr. Anderson's hundreds?) are meant to poison Mr. Anderson's credence with Evangelicals by casting doubt on his personal view of the Bible. Remember: one doesn't have to be a believer in God to know what a cult is when they leave one. No doubt, if Dirk maintains any issues about religion, it might be traced to his time with the Seventh Day Adventists. Having been lied to for years will do that to a person.

Here are his sites:

https://www.nonegw.org/ and https://www.nonsda.org/

I did not have the time to examine them closely so I am not vouching for their doctrinal stance but they seem to provide a good foundation of information that demonstrates how Ellen White and her followers lost their way.

 

[kinda]

People want a watered-down version of feel good Scripture- I can live however I want or live on what I am comfortable with and end up missing out on the Blessing God is trying to give us with His Sabbath. When I was in the world there was not one thing I did on Saturday Sabbath that was more gratifying than how I spend my Sabbaths now. When Jesus comes I do not believe those who keep this commandment will have any regrets- I wish I had that one last shopping trip, or ball game, or TV marathon or whatever it is that was more important than spending sacred time on the only day God blessed and sactified to do so. I think there will be a lot of regrets forgetting what God said not to.

Have you ever watched the Adventist Defense League? They are on YouTube- they really break down many of the critics with clear, undeniable Scripture. They can get long winded!

Heres some examples

I haven't, might need to check it out. I'm sorta on a prophecy kick right now. What's funny as I used to call this guy from the SDA church and ask, do you think it's the end times? lol Now that I think about it, SDA having been warning people this is the end times for years.

I still think King Charles is a person of interest in the end times, but It is Written guy said, they are just selling books. lol I get that they think the Vatican is the person of interest, but I try to get news on both from time to time.

The Investigative Judgement is interesting, because Doug Bachelor said, where is the temple? The Jewish Temple isn't really functioning right now, so that got me thinking. I haven't really thought about the Heavenly Temple, that must be more amazing, than anything imaginable on earth. Paradise.

 

[Inquisitor]

O.k., I made a post #162 on this topic. I'm far from an authority on this particular point. To be honest, it does seem suspect, but at that same time, it's not out of the realms of possibility. I will glady hand this one off to a SDA member.

I will say this, do you understand the SDA's position, and Bible references, or did you find this tid-bit on the web, and start hammering on it? What website did you use, or this is just from your experience at the church? Let's be real.... I have been to SDA church for about 5 years on and off, and I can tell this topic has NEVER been mentioned, but some how it comes up in this thread right?!?! lol

Bottom line, this one is totally out of my wheel house, I'm handing this one off to someone for a better reply.

The Investigative Judgement is one of the doctrines listed on the SDA website.

It is one of the most extreme doctrines listed on the SDA website, "belief 24".

It is not just suspect, Kinda, it is the antithesis of God's grace.

 

[Inquisitor]

Here is Doug talking about Investigative Judgement. He says, the reason why so many Christians have a problem with it, is because Christians want to believe, once saved, always saved. Those are his words, not mine.

Here is a comment in the video above..

"Let me just say one thing. I have studied the IJ now for about 13 yrs. I also learned some amazing things. EGW never came up with the Investigative Judgment. Several pioneers from various denominational backgrounds did--Baptist, Congregationalist, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc. came to this conclusion based on scripture, ALL on their own. At first EGW was confused, so she prayed to God to help her understand it. Later she was given a vision confirming what the pioneers discovered was true"

It looks like Investigative Judgement might got it's start from a Methodist Episcopal preacher?!?!?!


"Josiah Litch (April 4, 1809 – January 31, 1886) was a Methodist Episcopal preacher in the New England region of the United States, who was best known for his connections with the Millerite movement, and for using Bible prophecy to predict a loss of power for the Ottoman Empire."

"Another idea that Litch developed was the idea of a pre-advent judgment. According to Litch, "no human tribunal would think of executing judgment on a prisoner until after his trial; much less God." He began to develop the idea in 1840, but didn't publish until 1841. After the Great Disappointment, some Millerites applied Litch's pre-advent judgment to October 22, 1844, the Millerites' predicted date of Jesus' return. The Seventh-day Adventists later developed this into the "investigative judgment" doctrine."

"Litch was among the last of the prominent Millerites to accept the date of October 22, 1844, proposed by Samuel S. Snow, as the anticipated date of Jesus' return."

Josiah Litch - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"As early as 1841, Josiah Litch had advanced the notion that judgment could happen before Christ’s second advent. Citing Hebrews 9:27, Acts 10:42, and 2 Timothy 4:1, Litch wrote:

“Nor is there a text which presents the judicial scene of judgment after the resurrection. On the contrary, the Scriptures can be harmonized on no other principle than that every man’s doom is fixed before his resurrection.”3"

https://atoday.org/the-real-history-of-the-investigative-judgment-doctrine/

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

So we are not perfected for all time because we trust Jesus?

Not according to the SDA.

 

[Inquisitor]

Seems the Judaizers have called in all the troops. Let’s keep the information below fresh…

@pinebeach @Magenta @TruthDefender @Just_A__Follower

An SDA member, Dirk Anderson, who left the cult set up a fairly thorough website about his research into Ellen White:

https://www.nonegw.org/

The home page leads to an index of topics.

Be warned: some SDA's created an "anti-Dirk Anderson" response on one of their pages: https://www.ellenwhite.info/dirk_anderson_on_the_bible.htm

The pages (only two for Mr. Anderson's hundreds?) are meant to poison Mr. Anderson's credence with Evangelicals by casting doubt on his personal view of the Bible. Remember: one doesn't have to be a believer in God to know what a cult is when they leave one. No doubt, if Dirk maintains any issues about religion, it might be traced to his time with the Seventh Day Adventists. Having been lied to for years will do that to a person.

Here are his sites:

https://www.nonegw.org/ and https://www.nonsda.org/

I did not have the time to examine them closely so I am not vouching for their doctrinal stance but they seem to provide a good foundation of information that demonstrates how Ellen White and her followers lost their way.

Why do so many SDA members who leave the SDA post websites against the SDA?

 

[Inquisitor]

The investigation part is ridiculous, as if Jesus is sitting at a desk reviewing records and videos to see who did what. He knows our hearts but yet has to review the evidence. Makes total sense.

Yes, Jesus is conducting a review of you based purely on the literal, written law in Exodus 20.

So how did young Ellen White manage to put herself under the Mosaic law?

Ellen was raised in a Methodist church and was drilled in the Mosaic law.

Ellen was taught that she was bound by the law the same as the Catholics.

Jesus and the commandments; means Jesus and the ten commandments in the Methodist church.

Obviously, if your conversant in the N.T you quickly realize that Gentiles were never under the law.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

The law is not about the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

A Christian does not live their life trying to obey a legal code of conduct.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Matthew 7:12
In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Paul amplifies what Jesus said in Matthew 7:12.

Romans 8:8-10
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and
if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Christianity is not a set of rules and never was.

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also
love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

Jesus and the new covenant, Jesus and the new commandment, not a check list of the law.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Yes, Jesus is conducting a review of you based purely on the literal, written law in Exodus 20.

So how did young Ellen White manage to put herself under the Mosaic law?

Ellen was raised in a Methodist church and was drilled in the Mosaic law.

Ellen was taught that she was bound by the law the same as the Catholics.

Jesus and the commandments; means Jesus and the ten commandments in the Methodist church.

Obviously, if your conversant in the N.T you quickly realize that Gentiles were never under the law.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

The law is not about the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

A Christian does not live their life trying to obey a legal code of conduct.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Matthew 7:12
In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Paul amplifies what Jesus said in Matthew 7:12.

Romans 8:8-10
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and
if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Christianity is not a set of rules and never was.

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also
love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

Jesus and the new covenant, Jesus and the new commandment, not a check list of the law.

Amen. Simple. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. God, neighbor, self in that order. People just want to believe they have some control over their own salvation so they feel the need to complicate it. Pride can be an ugly thing.

 

[kinda]

The Investigative Judgement is one of the doctrines listed on the SDA website.

It is one of the most extreme doctrines listed on the SDA website, "belief 24".

It is not just suspect, Kinda, it is the antithesis of God's grace.

This is what I'm talking about, people just say blanket statements, and don't explain themselves.

Can you please explain, how it is anti-grace, or however you want to say it in an a negative way?

Please enlighten me on your view point. You know go into depth. I can't read minds.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Why do so many SDA members who leave the SDA post websites against the SDA?

Because they finally experience the love of God and want others to feel the same. You also see the same thing happening in others such as JW’s, Mormons, and every other cult.

 

[Inquisitor]

Those have already been debunked, they were all either a complete fabrication or taking just one verse from her writings and leaving out the other that provided the context of what she meant. Its misleading at the very least. It starts off with a big untruth- she never once predicted a date for Christ second return. These hate sites against the SDA church are not interested in understanding what really happened, just a narrative they have pieced together. Same as what happens with Scripture.

William Miller set the date of the return of Jesus Christ.

William Miller prophesied that Jesus Christ would return on October 22, 1844. Based on his interpretation
of Daniel 8:14 ("Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed"),
Miller believed the 2,300-day prophecy ended in 1844, which he interpreted as the second coming.
The failure of this event is known as the Great Disappointment. (wiki)

Ellen White accepted that date because she was a follower of William Miller.

That date became the 'Great Disappointment' alas, Jesus did not return.

Make no mistake that Ellen White accepted fully the prophecy of William Miller.

William Miller was a false prophet and Ellen White was in a real predicament.

William Miller confessed that he was a false prophet, that his prophecy failed.

Ellen White then devised her own solution to clear herself of being deluded by a false prophet.

Ellen White invented the idea that Jesus began an Investigative Judgement in 1844.

If you can't see what Ellen White is doing here because she followed a false prophet.

William Miller based his prophecy on one single verse in Daniel.

I am baffled that folk cannot see what Ellen White is doing?

 

[kinda]

Why do so many SDA members who leave the SDA post websites against the SDA?

Because they didn't get the hot girl?!?! I joke.

 

[kinda]

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

So we are not perfected for all time because we trust Jesus?

Not according to the SDA.

Can you please explain your reasoning? I can't read your mind.

Break it down into parts. Statements, reason, and conclusion.

So we are not perfected for all time because we trust Jesus? Is this a sanctification and justification discussion? Please clue me in on how your thinking?

Not according to SDA, because?

 

[Inquisitor]

Because they finally experience the love of God and want others to feel the same. You also see the same thing happening in others such as JW’s, Mormons, and every other cult.

Why do these cults follow the same formulae?

Every one of these cults see themselves as the chosen people, the chosen church.

Their organization has the full truth and only they understand the scripture.

Yet, every time you check their doctrines their understanding of grace and agape love is missing.

These cults behave like children and if you leave their organization, woe to you.

Why do these cults follow the same script to the letter?