You did not want the Word in that case?
The truth hurts.
Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but whoever hates correction is stupid. Proverbs 12:1
Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
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The truth hurts.
You didn't understand the verses of Romans 9 I posted?
They were appointed to disobedience by which they stumbled at the word; the opposite side of the coin for those whom God had appointed unto salvation through Jesus Christ.
[Rom 9:21 KJV] 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
[1Pe 2:7-8 KJV]
7 Unto you therefore which believe [he is] precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
[1Th 5:9 KJV] 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
There is no discipline or correction for the calvies or Armins.
It's just burn in hell for them.
Rev 3:16~~So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Scraping the bottom of the barrel again.
HOW MANY SINS DID JESUS COMMIT is your comeback!!!!
You should try reading the bible....
it would be of great help.
I've given it before.
At this time, I believe there is a security and I believe one can lose faith and walk away from Christ and thus from salvation. I think loss of salvation is the wrong terminology to be discussing, which I think someone like @TruthDefender or someone else alluded to in this thread.
I don't agree with reformed monergistic entrance or perseverence.
I currently see free-grace eternal security promoted by you and others as a form of monergistic perseverance that only really differentiates from your reformed basis in regard to things like rewards.
Honestly, I think there are holes in every system of theology to the extent I know their exegesis which I do attempt to boil things down to way beyond what you do.
There are some here that do speak for Satan....
And, they will act like they do not.
Satan works that way.
You really do not know as much as I thought you would...
That much I am learning about you.
Interesting you should say this. I've come to consider you to be one who is firing such darts albeit they're more like gnats.
NKJ Eph 6:14-18 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints--
I do pray that others won't be influenced by your doctrine or your character.
When you said this earlier I smiled and wondered if you had any grasp whatsoever on how dumb you can sound.
He is using you to expose a problem with christendom.
I think when we're debating things like loss it's just best to see what all the conditionals and such language says we're not holding onto and stick with the language.
If we have a verse that says we lose salvation or don't hold it, or... then we use it. If not, then we use what it says and connect it, but this seems to be too much for those who reject even the simplest of conditionals.
I'm just open to good use of words and phrases that match the Text.
Nice to see you here even though you've been called a legalist and probably worse.
You got your "crew" to reinforce their wrong thinking and keep feeling secure, and that's what you do.
Go for it.
God is my witness to what I just stated.
Actually, that's a good thing.
You obviously don't see the irony here. When you use your own misunderstanding as the standard, all you're doing is measuring others by your ignorance.
This fits with the points in recent posts where I've pointed out how you're projecting.
You're in a self-made trap here. You're projecting ignorance in these statements and also displaying it when you deflect from dealing with Scripture.
Please, let's get back into the Text where we all have things to learn.
Yes, the irony...
Scripture discussion?
There has to come a point where the deflection ends.
My come back to you is you have a comprehension problem.
What's lukewarm:
- "I believe there is a security, or
- I believe one can lose faith and walk away from Christ and thus from salvation, or
- I don't agree with reformed monergistic entrance or perseverence, or
- I currently see free-grace eternal security promoted by you and others as a form of monergistic perseverance that only really differentiates from your reformed basis in regard to things like rewards."?
Probably not.
Here's a little more based upon another guy's work that was a good reminder of how we can get stuck in existing constructs and forget about the perfect tense:
You were saved - Aorist tense (does not speak of the future or the present)
You were saved and are saved at this time - Perfect tense (does not speak of the future)
You are being saved (Present tense)
You will be saved (Future tense)
We could also evaluate you next year in between the Present and the Future with another Perfect tense = you were saved and are saved at this time (again, would not speak of the future)
We could also consider the conditional statements and the warning statements to say that Present tense is no longer active - and a Perfect tense evaluation would no longer be able to be used because the current state is no longer true - and the Future tense is no longer true if the Present tense is no longer active and true - and so on...
So, now we're into various doctrines to battle over because the verb tenses have ceased to function as we thought they were.
This is part of what happened to the eternal security teaching of the mid to late 20th century.
Others here - part of the 'crew' @Genez alleges exists - have stated how OSAS is a late in history doctrine. Have you stopped calling those who developed OSAS, 'calvies' - all it looks like your camp has done is modified their OSAS into your own version.
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TruthDefender
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TruthDefender
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Yes genez, you should take your statement to heart!!