So if a person falls away from the Lord you would claim it was God's fault that they fell away?
And would you say it was God's fault if a Christian does something sinful because God failed to keep them?
Loss of salvation???
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So if a person falls away from the Lord you would claim it was God's fault that they fell away?
And would you say it was God's fault if a Christian does something sinful because God failed to keep them?
T
TruthDefender
Guest
“Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.”
I John 5:1 NKJV
“Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”
John 3:3, 5 NKJV
-"There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
Ephesians 4:4-6 NKJV
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Can you show me a scripture that says that no longer having faith removes an individual from being in Christ
I would say that if they really fell away, then they were never in the will or in the inheritance though they might have seemed so superficially. Those who are in it can never fall away because God has made Himself guarantor that they won't - He will not permit it for them.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
What you’re saying is not what God said. Kept by the power THROUGH faith. Who has the faith of God? Does God have the faith in Himself, or is it that man has faith in God??
So what God is saying is that salvation for man is dependent on man’s faith in Him. If man no longer has faith, then salvation is lost!
No, it doesn't. It says, "kept by the power OF GOD".
[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
So those that are saved are robots who have no choice in anything?
That would explain the funny clothes some people wear!
Background is needed for that passage.
Jeremiah 17:1-4
“Judah’s sin is engraved with an iron tool,
inscribed with a flint point,
on the tablets of their hearts
and on the horns of their altars.
Even their children remember
their altars and Asherah poles
beside the spreading trees
and on the high hills.
My mountain in the land
and your wealth and all your treasures
I will give away as plunder,
together with your high places,
because of sin throughout your country.
Through your own fault you will lose
the inheritance I gave you.
I will enslave you to your enemies
in a land you do not know,
for you have kindled my anger,
and it will burn forever.”
Jeremiah had been preaching against the murderous phallic cult practices that his people were saturating themselves with.
As revealed in other passages... His ex-fiance even joined them.
It tore him up! She kept coming around to taunt Jeremiah.
Jeremiah was painfully heartbroken!
God's words to Jeremiah was about her actions and his degenerate people was to tell Jeremiah that they had become a deceitful heart. Beyond knowing!
Warning Jeremiah that he will be baffled/tormented by how they could become that way.
God was telling Jeremiah that what they had become can not be understood (who can know it?)
It is not simply... the heart is deceitful, as if it applies universally.
But, rather,
"The deceitful heart is above all things desperately wicked and beyond finding out."
It was commentary as to how sin and evil will distort the souls of men you used to know beyond being able to know them anymore.
Its amazing how passages gets universally abused to mean all men have a deceitful heart.
John 1:47
Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, and said of him,
“Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit!”
.
Amen! 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
In John 7:38-39, we read - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.
When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)
Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 for the word drink(s) and see the connection with the Holy Spirit.
That is what you are doing. Yes.
As you judge, you shall be judged.
The return of Jesus will be the Day of Justice.
.
Sadly some think this is true even after a person gets born again as they claim they were born sinners so it's not possible for them to stop sinning which is why they keep watching porn, smokin weed, drinking booze, lusting sexually, etc, etc
It's just an excuse to live in sin which is one reason why they so love the false doctrines of reformed theology
Jesus said judge a righteous judgement (John 7:24) so those that don't accept the whole counsel of God need to be called out as the false teachers that they are as to warn the true brethren so they aren't deceived by the tares that lurk among us
Paul was comforting them to know that if they have been doing those things (and they had) that it indicates they have been saved!
It seems to me, that faith and belief are both gifts from God given to us by grace which comes through hearing His word. So, to say that we must possess both to become saved does not nullify grace alone.
When we are given a new heart, [regenerated], they will both be brought to the surface.
To me, it's almost like saying which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Every thing comes together at the time of salvation. That is one mystery that only God can answer.
Yes and the Lord through Paul was teaching man has to do something to be saved too.
Believe and confess are things we do
No, they are spiritually dead before being saved. After being saved and made spiritually alive, they would never choose to go back
to spiritual death even if they could, which they can't, nor would they ever want to - spiritual life is far better than death.
With spiritual life comes a new perspective on sinning such that those saved, being led by the Holy Spirit, usually lose
desire to continue in it. Nevertheless, no one is perfect and we all often fall short of perfection but that does not alter one's
salvation state, because those saved have become so by Christ's righteousness not their own.
Not to mention that God severely chastises His children when they engage in activities that aren't God, Christ, or Christianity
glorifying.
So it is your belief that we may become God's yo-yo, to play with.
You're saved, you're not saved, you're saved, etc. . . .
In a sense I see belief/faith as a gift since they do not originate in us. God draws (John 6:44) and enables (John 6:65) and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)
That has been the big problem of man doing his own thinking in terms he is limited to.
God not only wants us to believe...
But after believing? To become trained to think with clarity and accuracy by means of sound doctrine.
When confronted with Scripture?
Many offer theories that suites their own way of thinking, and many will follow them. (2 Timothy 4:3)
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction,
and many enter through it." Matthew 7:13
It's why the road to destroying one's spiritual lives was termed "broad and wide."
The narrow way - (learning sound doctrine) - only a few will be willing to endure to find it.
"Broad and wide road =they will not *tolerate* sound teaching!
They will seek for what makes them feel good about themselves how they want to see things according to their naturally reasoning.
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number
of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3
Great number of teachers?
The broad and wide way leading to the destruction of their walk with God. = falling from grace!