Pre Trib or Post trib rapture?

[cv5]

Luke 17:33 context: time of JACOBS trouble.
Audience and affected parties: Israelites, who in the tribulation carry on with the preaching duties.

There are no Christians preaching the gospel in the tribulation! Our commission has ended, now the responsibility shifts to the 144,000 Israelites (and probably many others catch on eventually as disciples including gentile believers).

**************************************************

Who are the ONLY group in the Bible that are resurrected while still living?
CHRISTIANS ONLY who are presently ensconced in the Church Age.
This corpus of believers of this age (called the Bride of Christ) are the realization and personification of the types of the Bride redeemed before crisis (such as Ruth) noted in the OT.

United to the redeemer before crisis → Asenath, Ruth, Rebekah, Zipporah, Abigail

1Th 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up ***together with them*** (WITH THE DEAD CHRISTIANS RESURRECTED JUST SPLIT SECONDS EARLIER) in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Co 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (DIE PHYSICALLY), but we shall all be changed,
“Changed” (Greek: allagēsometha) = transformed, altered

1Co 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
“Changed” (Greek: allagēsometha) = transformed, altered

IMO we are resurrected in a sense from dead flesh to a living eternal BODY, but perhaps the term TRANSFORMED is more fitting for those LIVING BELIEVERS who receive their spiritual body without suffering physical death.

"Who are the ONLY group in the Bible that are resurrected TRANSFORMED while still living?"

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Luke 17:33 context: time of JACOBS trouble.
Audience and affected parties: Israelites, who in the tribulation carry on with the preaching duties.

There are no Christians preaching the gospel in the tribulation! Our commission has ended, now the responsibility shifts to the 144,000 Israelites (and probably many others catch on eventually as disciples including gentile believers).

**************************************************

Who are the ONLY group in the Bible that are resurrected while still living?
CHRISTIANS ONLY who are presently ensconced in the Church Age.
This corpus of believers of this age (called the Bride of Christ) are the realization and personification of the types of the Bride redeemed before crisis (such as Ruth) noted in the OT.

United to the redeemer before crisis → Asenath, Ruth, Rebekah, Zipporah, Abigail

1Th 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up ***together with them*** (WITH THE DEAD CHRISTIANS RESURRECTED JUST SPLIT SECONDS EARLIER) in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Co 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (DIE PHYSICALLY), but we shall all be changed,
“Changed” (Greek: allagēsometha) = transformed, altered

1Co 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
“Changed” (Greek: allagēsometha) = transformed, altered

Yes, I get it - that's what you want to believe. Okay.

Are you still going to post here when the antichrist is revealed and you find yourself in the GT?

I want to know whether you'll take the mark or not.


🕊

 

[cv5]

Yes, I get it - that's what you want to believe. Okay.

Are you still going to post here when the antichrist is revealed and you find yourself in the GT?

I want to know whether you'll take the mark or not.


🕊

That response is not a sound, Scripturally relevant and Biblically based well reasoned argument proving anything in particular.
It is however, your opinion.

Did Paul entertain the opinions of any and every newbie believer? I doubt it.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

That response is not a sound, Scripturally relevant and Biblically based well reasoned argument proving anything in particular.
It is however, your opinion.

Did Paul entertain the opinions of any and every newbie believer? I doubt it.

Wow, you're that afraid of a post-trib rapture that you don't even want to consider how you would react when you end up in the GT? That's not good.

At least build up your faith to endure in Christ to the end. You won't regret it.


🕊

 

[cv5]

At least build up your faith to endure in Christ to the end. You won't regret it.

At least don't make the mistake of Hymenaeus and Philetus and thereby make yourself an heretic proffering bogus unbiblical dogma meant to "overthrow the faith of some".

This post-trib nonsense has its dire implications (against those who proclaim it) consequential to the tragic harm being done.
Post-trib is NOT harmless, nor can it be considered as "rightly dividing the word of truth".

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 2:17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[greenonions]

Show me the term "Christian" or "Church" anywhere between Rev 6 thru Rev 18.

They ain't there. They are no longer on the "EARTH", therefore they are not recorded in those passages during the 70th week of Daniel, when Gods judgements and wrath are coming like a snare upon those who dwell upon the whole EARTH.

Who ARE there (on the EARTH) are unsaved Israelites and gentiles. Some of whom DO come to believe during (and because of) the tribulation....due to preaching, awesome signs, angelic proclamations etc.

Luk 21:35 - For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Time to up your game kid. This is not rocket science.

Is the word Christian or Church found in Rev 21? Any Christians in the New Jerusalem?

John and Jesus use the word church to refer to local churches only in Revelation. I suggest the great multitude is the universal church.

 

[Omegatime]

If you know the Lord then you understand that during the Lord's judgments he doesn't kill the righteous with the wicked and the Tribulation is surely a judgement, just as the world wide flood during the days of Noah and the destruction of Sodom and surrounding cities.

Save yourself from the misery that is soon to come and call upon the name of the Lord Yeshua -- Jesus

 

[Psalm1]

I notice pretrib rests on taking the most allegorical passage, apoctalyptic visions, interpreting them through the pre-trib grid, then using that as an exegetical key to wrap the interpretation around straight forward passages. You are also assuming that there isn't repetition in Revelation, telling parts of the story over again from different angles. But let us look at verses from the passage.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

Notice, he talks about dying in the Lord.
14&nbsp;I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man[<a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 14&amp;version=NIV#fen-NIV-30942b" title="See footnote b">b</a>] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15&nbsp;Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16&nbsp;So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

17&nbsp;Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19&nbsp;The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

(That was all NIV, sorry, kind of in a hurry.)

Anyway, two harvests, but in the context of people dying in the Lord. The latter harvest is connected to blood and doesn't mention resurrection.

Be that as it may, in the straightforward passages in Paul's writings, there are things that occur at the parousia. One is the rapture and resurrection of the dead according to I Thessalonians 4. Another is the destruction of the lawless one in II Thessalonians 2:8. In fact in verse 1 of that chapter it speaks of the parousia of the Lord and our gathering unto him.

Now, the beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire toward the end of Revelation, written in sequence just before the 'first resurrection' part of the passage, right after a passage we would both take as a reference to the Second Coming. II Thessalonians 2 says the man of sin will be destroyed at the brightness of His coming. So that is Revelation 19 stuff, right... not something from chapter 3 or 4?

Why would the parousia in II Thessalonians 2:8-- where the lawless one is destroyed-- be different from the parousia mentioned just several verses before--- the coming of the Lord and our gathering unto Him? It makes no sense to think that Paul is talking about two comings without telling us?

And in verse 1, doesn't our gathering unto Him refer to the rapture which occurs at His coming? Isn't it the same coming as the parousia in the rapture passage, I Thessalonians 4, where the dead in Christ and they which are alive and remain are caught up to meet the Lord in the air at His coming?

Also notice in Matthew 24 the angels gather the elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Again, if you look outside, out of the city, you can see the 'end of heaven' where it meets earth... that is the horizon. Babylonians came from the end of heaven to Jerusalem... that is they came from far away. So the angels are gathering the elect at the coming of the Son of Man.

If we keep reading, the days of Noah verse, the no man knows the day or the hour verse, etc. are set at the coming of the Son of Man. We also see that this happens AFTER the tribulation. The coming of the Son of Man is post tribulational. The gathering of the elect is post tribulational.

Compare II Thessalonians 2:1-- the coming of the Lord and our gathering together unto Him. Compare the trumpet in Matthew 24:31 to the trump of God in the rapture passage in I Thessalonians 4:16.

The burden of proof is one you that there are two comings (παρουσίες) or that Jesus extends the παρουσίες to last for seven years (in the air for seven years... seems a rather bizarre interpretation.) Otherwise, I don't really care to discuss further at this time.

Of course you are done.
You omitting verses is to promote your doctrine.

Of course you can not defend from that lowly position.

You think dancing around the fact that the gathering after the trib is from heaven, voids Jesus rapture teaching of "before the flood", five sentences later?

Voiding Jesus words?
That is your position?

 

[greenonions]

If you know the Lord then you understand that during the Lord's judgments he doesn't kill the righteous with the wicked and the Tribulation is surely a judgement, just as the world wide flood during the days of Noah and the destruction of Sodom and surrounding cities.

Save yourself from the misery that is soon to come and call upon the name of the Lord Yeshua -- Jesus

John 16:33 NKJV
[33] These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

II Thessalonians 1:6-8 NKJV
[6] since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [7] and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [8] in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice how Christians get rest at the same time that Jesus comes to destroy the wicked.

Revelation 13:10 NKJV
[10] He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Are the saints here righteous? Or does not killing the righteous only apply to particular righteous people (Christians)?

Revelation 14:12-13 NKJV
[12] Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. [13] Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

The saints need endurance. They are probably included among people who die in the Lord. If they are "in the Lord", are they not Christians?

There are many arguments about Christians not facing God's wrath, but is it conveniently ok for tribulation saints to suffer that wrath?

The wrath we are saved from in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and 5:9 refer to hell fire, in my opinion.

 

[greenonions]

Of course you are done.
You omitting verses is to promote your doctrine.

Of course you can not defend from that lowly position.

You think dancing around the fact that the gathering after the trib is from heaven, voids Jesus rapture teaching of "before the flood", five sentences later?

Voiding Jesus words?
That is your position?

Matthew 24:36-44 is referring back to Jesus's post trib return in verse 30. Jesus cites the days of Noah to say how sudden and unexpected it is. He gives specifics: certain people will be taken and the other left. The suddenness is like a thief. We Christians should be ready for His coming as a thief

Revelation 16:15 NKJV
[15] “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

Revelation tells us Jesus's coming as a thief is at or after the sixth bowl (post trib or pre wrath)

I think Jesus's gathering of Christians to heaven can be found in Rev. 19:1, where the great multitude appears before God's throne. (And Rev. 18:1-4 is Jesus's descent from heaven)

 

[presidente]

Of course you are done.
You omitting verses is to promote your doctrine.

Of course you can not defend from that lowly position.

These conversations can go all over the place. I would like us to focus. How is it reasonable to interpret scripture around the idea that Jesus returns two more times?

You think dancing around the fact that the gathering after the trib is from heaven, voids Jesus rapture teaching of "before the flood", five sentences later?

Voiding Jesus words?
That is your position?

No, I'm saying let's believe what Jesus said, and say it in context. Your post doesn't make much sense. There is no 'voiding' in what I posted. Let's interpret the passage in line with the context, not through some modern interpretation system that doesn't make sense in context.

 

[presidente]

Of course you are done.

You omitting verses is to promote your doctrine.

What are you talking about?


These conversations can go all over the place. I would like us to focus. How is it reasonable to interpret scripture around the idea that Jesus returns two more times? Why would 'parousia' in II Thessalonians 2:1 be different from the same event mentioned in verse 8? What is the justification for that?

You think dancing around the fact that the gathering after the trib is from heaven, voids Jesus rapture teaching of "before the flood", five sentences later?



Voiding Jesus words?

That is your position?

No, I'm saying let's believe what Jesus said, and say it in context. Your post doesn't make much sense. There is no 'voiding' in what I posted. Let's interpret the passage in line with the context, not through some modern interpretation system that doesn't make sense in context.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

At least don't make the mistake of Hymenaeus and Philetus and thereby make yourself an heretic proffering bogus unbiblical dogma meant to "overthrow the faith of some".

This post-trib nonsense has its dire implications (against those who proclaim it) consequential to the tragic harm being done.
Post-trib is NOT harmless, nor can it be considered as "rightly dividing the word of truth".

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 2:17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

You're just going to embarrass yourself and be horrified too if you don't build up your faith in Christ to endure to the end.

A very few pre-tribbers are wise enough to build their faith to endure just in case they turn out to be wrong. Why can't the rest? Building up your faith won't make you lose what's most important.


🕊

 

[Psalm1]

What are you talking about?


These conversations can go all over the place. I would like us to focus. How is it reasonable to interpret scripture around the idea that Jesus returns two more times? Why would 'parousia' in II Thessalonians 2:1 be different from the same event mentioned in verse 8? What is the justification for that?



No, I'm saying let's believe what Jesus said, and say it in context. Your post doesn't make much sense. There is no 'voiding' in what I posted. Let's interpret the passage in line with the context, not through some modern interpretation system that doesn't make sense in context.

I quoted what Jesus said, that you omitted.
I QUOTED THE CONTEXT....BY JESUS.
1) The setting.
2) who is taken before the flood.
3) WHEN THEY ARE TAKEN
4) The "ark" typology.
5) Noah and family gathered pretrib/preflood.

Suddenness is correct.
You favor that component....the only one you say is there. You are claiming all the components by Jesus, in HIS analogy are just empty words.

THOSE COMPONENTS DO NOT go away via a doctrines omission.
They are in fact, omitted by your doctrine for a reason.

Matthew 24:36-44 is referring back to Jesus's post trib return in verse 30. Jesus cites the days of Noah to say how sudden and unexpected it is. He gives specifics: certain people will be taken and the other left. The suddenness is like a thief. We Christians should be ready for His coming as a thief

Revelation 16:15 NKJV
[15] “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

Revelation tells us Jesus's coming as a thief is at or after the sixth bowl (post trib or pre wrath)

I think Jesus's gathering of Christians to heaven can be found in Rev. 19:1, where the great multitude appears before God's throne. (And Rev. 18:1-4 is Jesus's descent from heaven)

Rev 19:1 is saints ALREADY IN HEAVEN.

Postrib doctrine claims the rapture is when Jesus comes in the clouds on millions of white horses.

You do realize you just pointed out a gathering before a supposed postrib rapture?


QUOTE:
"Matthew 24:36-44 is referring back to Jesus's post trib return in verse 30. Jesus cites the days of Noah to say how sudden and unexpected it is. He gives specifics: certain people will be taken and the other left. The suddenness is like a thief. We Christians should be ready for His coming as a thief"

Ok, you do realize postibber doctrine says that Noah is an example of the church going through the trib.
You realize that, correct?

So now you are telling me that the Church (like Noah) is raptured post flood??????

You see the ridiculousness of that theory???
Noah, IN NO WAY, had any such postflood rescue/rapture/ gathering/ removal.
ZERO.

IN FACT, Noah RETURNED TO EARTH FROM HEAVEN, BEING IN THE HEAVENS FOR THE ENTIRE TRIB.

UH...kinda like the pretrib rapture doctrine, and Jesus teach.

 

[greenonions]

Rev 19:1 is saints ALREADY IN HEAVEN.

Postrib doctrine claims the rapture is when Jesus comes in the clouds on millions of white horses.

You do realize you just pointed out a gathering before a supposed postrib rapture?


QUOTE:
"Matthew 24:36-44 is referring back to Jesus's post trib return in verse 30. Jesus cites the days of Noah to say how sudden and unexpected it is. He gives specifics: certain people will be taken and the other left. The suddenness is like a thief. We Christians should be ready for His coming as a thief"

Ok, you do realize postibber doctrine says that Noah is an example of the church going through the trib.
You realize that, correct?

So now you are telling me that the Church (like Noah) is raptured post flood??????

You see the ridiculousness of that theory???
Noah, IN NO WAY, had any such postflood rescue/rapture/ gathering/ removal.
ZERO.

IN FACT, Noah RETURNED TO EARTH FROM HEAVEN, BEING IN THE HEAVENS FOR THE ENTIRE TRIB.

UH...kinda like the pretrib rapture doctrine, and Jesus teach.

I think the tribulation ended by the time the seventh bowl was poured out. In fact, I think the 5th bowl of darkness could be the darkening of the sun, moon, and stars immediately after the tribulation.



So having a rapture when the voice says "Come out, My people" in Rev. 18:4 is after the tribulation.



Post trib doctrine can have many flavours, but the unifying theme is that Jesus comes after the tribulation. I don't think coming on horses in Rev. 19:14 is the rapture, but Jesus coming to earth with His saints after the earlier rapture to meet the Lord in the air (Rev. 19:1).



Suppose the flood represents (at least partially) being destroyed by God at the battle in Rev. 19:17-21, and doesn't refer to the great tribulation. In that case, the timeline that I proposed still matches the analogy of Noah.

 

[presidente]

I quoted what Jesus said, that you omitted.

I QUOTED THE CONTEXT....BY JESUS.
1) The setting.
2) who is taken before the flood.
3) WHEN THEY ARE TAKEN
4) The "ark" typology.
5) Noah and family gathered pretrib/preflood.

I don't even know what you are talking about. I just popped into this conversation as of late... maybe I was in it before, and if you quoted all that recently, I don't recall it.

But look at yourself. You 'omitted' the whole book of Genesis, and Exodus, etc. etc.

Now let's consider Matthew 24. Jesus establishes that the coming of the Son of man occurs AFTER the tribulation, then compares the coming of the Son of man to the days of Noah.

Suddenness is correct.

You favor that component....the only one you say is there. You are claiming all the components by Jesus, in HIS analogy are just empty words.

No, if you want to converse with me, please do so in a sane and polite manner. I did not say that Jesus' statements are empty words. I don't know who else you are talking about. I haven't memorized or even read the whole thread. If you want to reply to me, how about let's talk about something really specific like a passage of scripture instead of these types of characteristics.

Rev 19:1 is saints ALREADY IN HEAVEN.

There are those who have been slain under the altar also.

Postrib doctrine claims the rapture is when Jesus comes in the clouds on millions of white horses.

I never heard anyone claim that our Lord will come back riding millions of horses. What is your intended point with this comment?

You do realize you just pointed out a gathering before a supposed postrib rapture?

I don't follow your point. A gathering AT the rapture.

QUOTE:

"Matthew 24:36-44 is referring back to Jesus's post trib return in verse 30. Jesus cites the days of Noah to say how sudden and unexpected it is. He gives specifics: certain people will be taken and the other left. The suddenness is like a thief. We Christians should be ready for His coming as a thief"



Ok, you do realize postibber doctrine says that Noah is an example of the church going through the trib.

You realize that, correct?

Huh? It says that for as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be... marriage and giving in marriage... and knew not until the flodo came.

So now you are telling me that the Church (like Noah) is raptured post flood??????

Your point doesn't make much sense here. We all live post-flood. The passage points out the area of commonality with the days of Noah.

You see the ridiculousness of that theory???

Noah, IN NO WAY, had any such postflood rescue/rapture/ gathering/ removal.

ZERO.

'knew not until the flood came' describes the time leading up to and right at the flood, not after it.

IN FACT, Noah RETURNED TO EARTH FROM HEAVEN, BEING IN THE HEAVENS FOR THE ENTIRE TRIB.

You aren't making much sense.

 

[Psalm1]

I don't even know what you are talking about. I just popped into this conversation as of late... maybe I was in it before, and if you quoted all that recently, I don't recall it.

But look at yourself. You 'omitted' the whole book of Genesis, and Exodus, etc. etc.

Now let's consider Matthew 24. Jesus establishes that the coming of the Son of man occurs AFTER the tribulation, then compares the coming of the Son of man to the days of Noah.



No, if you want to converse with me, please do so in a sane and polite manner. I did not say that Jesus' statements are empty words. I don't know who else you are talking about. I haven't memorized or even read the whole thread. If you want to reply to me, how about let's talk about something really specific like a passage of scripture instead of these types of characteristics.



There are those who have been slain under the altar also.



I never heard anyone claim that our Lord will come back riding millions of horses. What is your intended point with this comment?




I don't follow your point. A gathering AT the rapture.




Huh? It says that for as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be... marriage and giving in marriage... and knew not until the flodo came.



Your point doesn't make much sense here. We all live post-flood. The passage points out the area of commonality with the days



'knew not until the flood came' describes the time leading up to and right at the flood, not after it.



You aren't making much sense.

My quote;
"IN FACT, Noah RETURNED TO EARTH FROM HEAVEN, BEING IN THE HEAVENS FOR THE ENTIRE TRIB."

Your answer;
"You aren't making much sense."

The ark with Noah in it, was on the surface of the water.
The waters were higher than the mountains. ( Noah literally in the heavens)
The ark came back to earth after the waters preceeded.( postrib)

In the Noah typology, in the preflood setting, by Jesus, he describes a gathering.....When is that gathering?

Where in the "noah picture" described by Jesus, is there a gathering?


Quote
"knew not until the flood came' describes the time leading up to and right at the flood, not after it."

Exactly.
Jesus analogy is preflood, pretrib gathering.
Note :"before the flood", and the pretrib setting of the "ones taken"

QUOTE:
"I never heard anyone claim that our Lord will come back riding millions of horses. What is your intended point with this comment? "

Postribbers claim "one coming".

Rev 19 on the white horses is one if three.
There we see all the horses at the second coming.
Maybe you are pointing out my typo, of millions of horses ?
Yes they are there. Read rev 19.
Jesus is on ONE OF THEM...as stated in the bible.

 

[Psalm1]

I don't even know what you are talking about. I just popped into this conversation as of late... maybe I was in it before, and if you quoted all that recently, I don't recall it.

But look at yourself. You 'omitted' the whole book of Genesis, and Exodus, etc. etc.

Now let's consider Matthew 24. Jesus establishes that the coming of the Son of man occurs AFTER the tribulation, then compares the coming of the Son of man to the days of Noah.



No, if you want to converse with me, please do so in a sane and polite manner. I did not say that Jesus' statements are empty words. I don't know who else you are talking about. I haven't memorized or even read the whole thread. If you want to reply to me, how about let's talk about something really specific like a passage of scripture instead of these types of characteristics.



There are those who have been slain under the altar also.



I never heard anyone claim that our Lord will come back riding millions of horses. What is your intended point with this comment?




I don't follow your point. A gathering AT the rapture.




Huh? It says that for as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be... marriage and giving in marriage... and knew not until the flodo came.



Your point doesn't make much sense here. We all live post-flood. The passage points out the area of commonality with the days of Noah.



'knew not until the flood came' describes the time leading up to and right at the flood, not after it.



You aren't making much sense.

QUOTE
"Now let's consider Matthew 24. Jesus establishes that the coming of the Son of man occurs AFTER the tribulation, then compares the coming of the Son of man to the days of Noah."

You are blenderizing 2 separate events.

After the trib Jesus comes in glory on a white horse. In judgement, as A AVENGER.
Yes he is on one of the millions of them.
Before the coming by Jesus in rev 19, Jesus sends angels to gather saints in heaven..postrib (Rev 19).
They assemble in heaven on white horses. (your "AFTER the trib" verse of mat 24)

******************THEN******************
Jesus shifts to a separate gathering "BEFORE THE FLOOD....one taken , one not taken."
(2 vivid and completely separate comings)
BEFORE THE FLOOD IS BEFORE THE TRIB.

 

[Psalm1]

You're just going to embarrass yourself and be horrified too if you don't build up your faith in Christ to endure to the end.

A very few pre-tribbers are wise enough to build their faith to endure just in case they turn out to be wrong. Why can't the rest? Building up your faith won't make you lose what's most important.


🕊

The rapture is depicted in mat 25.
The worthy ones are taken.
The ones filled with the Holy Spirit.

So, to portray yourself better than those that are filled with the Holy Spirit, is futile.
You seem to be saying, that because Jesus doesn't come you are building faith.

The bible Ends with the spirit and the bride calling out to heaven for Jesus to come.

The Bible does not end with carnal believers saying "Jesus is not coming, and therefore we are so strong we are gonna endure beheading"

 

[presidente]

Psalm 1,

There are those taken away at the coming of the Son of man, as there were those taken away by the flood. Judgement comes on various people at that time.

Jesus doesn't say anything about the flood taking people up to heaven. That's your imagination. I'll stick with how Jesus connects the events at the coming of the Son of Man with the events of the flood. That's a really tenuous argument. If you have some real argument, fill in the gaps so I don't have to guess what point you are trying to make.

You have given no reason to think the coming of the Son of Man in Matthew 24 is two separate events.