Loss of salvation???

[SabbathBlessing]

I'm saying you are not under God's covenant with Israel, and that we have a different covenant with God, summarized in Jesus' words that all who believe in Him shall live.

Now if you want to apply yourself to keeping the Law, the Bible tells us that's not of faith, and therefore works against faith. Romans 4 is all about that.

And the truth is, you've already broken the Law of Israel's covenant with God, and you will be destined to break it continuing on, as in fact many of the commandments simply cannot be kept.

So that will force you to carve Israel's covenant of Law into pieces, that you think some will apply to you and some not. James addresses this directly, telling us that God is the One Who gave all the commandments, the Law and the Prophets, and if you break even just one, that renders you a lawbreaker, and condemned by the Law.

You who teach the Law, do you realize what it says?

Much love!

So in your view in God's New Covenant- we can reject the law of God He has written in our hearts and minds Heb8:10

From my Bible, it says faith establishes the law, not voids it Rom3:31 and the saints still keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus Rev14:12 and those who reject God's laws can't please God Rom8:7-8 that there is no Truth in them 1John2:4 and Jesus says depart from Me Mat7:23 that certainly seems like the wrong path to me.

So I do not believe we are either reading the same Bible or not fully looking at everything it says.

 

[Toknow]

My commentary is about a person who THINKS they are saved... it's about a truly saved individual.

Just to clarify:
I was responding to the following by another member in post no. 10,727:

The Bible answers this.

1 Peter 1:6-9 KJV
6) Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8) Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9) Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Trials prove the genuineness of real faith. Those who turn back did not have that faith, were not regenerated.

1 John 2:19 KJV
19) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


1 peter 1 is speaking about saved persons....they have a new birth...and are awaiting an inheritance kept in heaven for them and are shielded by God's power until their salvation is ready to be revealed...thus it is speaking of final sanctification...salvation that is revealed at the end. It goes on to say that they believe in Him.

As to 1 John 2:19 John is speaking about gnostics that had left the church because they realized they would not be accepted.
They, in fact, were not of "them"....but it was always known that they were not.

 

[Toknow]

MFW is the opposite of TULIP

The rapture of Christians who are living when Jesus returns is in 1Cor. 15:51 & 1Thes. 4:17.
What do you think happens to them when the last trumpet sounds?

I don't know about the last trumpet.
Never studied Revelation and never will.
Too many different understandings...not literal....there is very little there of any real use.

I explained 1 Cor 15:51 and 1 Thess 4:17
We will be "caught up" but at the end of the world.

It would be up to YOU now to explain where you believe it is speaking about a rapture.
You'd have to show how Jesus comes back two times and not only one time.

The rapture is a new teaching in the church.
I find that new teachings are never correct.



The modern, popular doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture—where believers are taken to heaven before a seven-year tribulation—was first widely taught in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby, a leader in the Plymouth Brethren movement. While some earlier, vague mentions of similar ideas exist, Darby solidified it into a complete theological system that spread to America.
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• Origin: Darby developed the idea around 1827-1830, separating the Rapture from the final Second Coming of Jesus.
• Influence: Margaret MacDonald, a Scottish woman, is sometimes cited as having a prophetic vision in 1830 that influenced the development of the idea.
• Popularity: The teaching was later popularized in the early 20th century through the Scofield Reference Bible and gained further mainstream attention through the Left Behind series.
• Historical View: For most of church history, the concept of a secret, pre-tribulation removal of the church was not part of mainstream theology, with most holding to a post-tribulation perspective.
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The concept is based on interpretations of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which describes believers being "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air.


source: Gemini

 

[Mem]

Legend in your own mind, I know.

Nah. I'm just not bogged down by unbelief.

 

[legion]

So in your view in God's New Covenant- we can reject the law of God He has written in our hearts and minds Heb8:10

From my Bible, it says faith establishes the law, not voids it Rom3:31 and the saints still keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus Rev14:12 and those who reject God's laws can't please God Rom8:7-8 that there is no Truth in them 1John2:4 and Jesus says depart from Me Mat7:23 that certainly seems like the wrong path to me.

So I do not believe we are either reading the same Bible or not fully looking at everything it says.

The law written on our hearts is simple love God and love your neighbor the entirety of the Mosaic law is fulfilled in that one law. So the law is being upheld since that was its ultimate teaching which Israel failed to identify second God did not give Gentiles the law

 

[Toknow]

You have me confused with someone else. I never denied that we are to do good works.

I was responding to the assertion that bad works causes someone to be unsaved. That isn't true.

If we're required to do good works...
and we do not....
we are like the foolish man that did not act on the teachings of Jesus and his house
was destroyed by the wind.

Bad works cause forfeiture of salvation.

 

[legion]

Just to clarify:
I was responding to the following by another member in post no. 10,727:

Yes and I should apologize for hijacking the responses....

 

[JayWalker]

Nah. I'm just not bogged down by unbelief.

while being bogged down in not accepting the whole counsel of God.

I think the phrase the kids us these days is "cherry picker"

 

[Toknow]

What? I didn't say that.

You said that.

You said:

"This is one of the clearest cases. Ananias and Sapphira appeared to be doing a generous, charitable act — donating proceeds from a land sale — but their motive was self‑glorification "

See your post no. 10,794

I know you said this, but you are wrong. Of course, you need to know why you are doing what you are doing, because reason speaks to motive and motive speaks to righteousness. In other words, your works aren't "good works" unless you know you are doing good.

Of course Roger, I'm wrong.
And YOU are ALWAYS RIGHT.

I don't see any scripture.
Jesus said to do good works.
He didn't say that we should stop and analyze why we're doing them.

A good tree produces good fruit.
THIS is what Jesus said.

And, BTW, He also said that a fruitless tree will be cut down
and fruitless branches will be cut off.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The law written on our hearts is simple love God and love your neighbor the entirety of the Mosaic law is fulfilled in that one law. So the law is being upheld since that was its ultimate teaching which Israel failed to identify second God did not give Gentiles the law

Yes, but is love to God up to us or how He said it was. Exo20:6 John14:15

I had a boyfriend once who did everything for me. Everything but what I asked. I think we can do that with God. Love is not a feeling, God always related love to Him with obedience to His commandments. Anyone can say LORD LORD, He wants us to do His will through love Psa40:8 trusting what He asks is for our own good.

 

[markss]

So in your view in God's New Covenant- we can reject the law of God He has written in our hearts and minds Heb8:10

Don't project your words onto me lest you be found false.

From my Bible, it says faith establishes the law, not voids it Rom3:31

Romans 3:23-31 KJV
23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The Law is established by faith because we are justified by faith, and not by works of Law. This establishes the fact that the Law truly does condemn all, and the only way to salvation is justification by faith.

So I do not believe we are either reading the same Bible or not fully looking at everything it says.

We? Do you mean yourself? Do you suppose there are passages in opposition to each other? We can look at others if you wish.

Much love!

 

[Mem]

while being bogged down in not accepting the whole counsel of God.

I think the phrase the kids us these days is "cherry picker"

2Tim 2:22

 

[JayWalker]

2Tim 2:22

1 Corinthians 13:11

 

[legion]

Yes, but is love to God up to us or how He said it was. Exo20:6 John14:15

I had a boyfriend once who did everything for me. Everything but what I asked. I think we can do that with God. Love is not a feeling, God always related love to Him with obedience to His commandments. Anyone can say LORD LORD, He wants us to do His will through love Psa40:8 trusting what He asks is for our own good.

Your reference and exodus is to the Israelites not to the Gentiles and also not after the crucifixion using the Old Testament to defend something in the New Testament is a minefield since the law has changed and there is no Mosaic Covenant

 

[Toknow]

Don't project your words onto me lest you be found false.



Romans 3:23-31 KJV
23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The Law is established by faith because we are justified by faith, and not by works of Law. This establishes the fact that the Law truly does condemn all, and the only way to salvation is justification by faith.


We? Do you mean yourself? Do you suppose there are passages in opposition to each other? We can look at others if you wish.

Much love!

You stated this in post no. 10,841

"I'm saying you are not under God's covenant with Israel, and that we have a different covenant with God, summarized in Jesus' words that all who believe in Him shall live."


We are under a different Covenant.
However, every single Covenant God made with man....
included obedience to God.
All types of Covenants included obedience.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
In the biblical narrative, obedience is a central theme, particularly as it pertains to the covenant relationship between God and His people. The concept of obedience is woven throughout the Scriptures, serving as a fundamental requirement for maintaining the covenantal bond established by God with humanity.

Old Testament Context

In the Old Testament, obedience is first seen in the context of the covenant with Adam, where God commands Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17). The failure to obey this command results in the fall, illustrating the severe consequences of disobedience.

The Abrahamic Covenant further emphasizes obedience. God commands Abraham to leave his country and promises to make him a great nation (Genesis 12:1-3). Abraham's obedience is highlighted in Genesis 22:18, where God says, "And through your offspring all nations of the earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."

The Mosaic Covenant explicitly outlines obedience as a requirement. The giving of the Law at Sinai establishes a clear framework for Israel's relationship with God. In Exodus 19:5, God declares, "Now if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, you will be My treasured possession out of all the nations." The blessings and curses associated with obedience and disobedience are detailed in Deuteronomy 28, underscoring the importance of adherence to God's commands.

New Testament Context

In the New Testament, the theme of obedience continues, with Jesus Christ exemplifying perfect obedience. Philippians 2:8 states, "And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross." Christ's obedience is central to the New Covenant, fulfilling the Law and the Prophets and establishing a new basis for righteousness.

Believers are called to emulate Christ's obedience. In John 14:15, Jesus says, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." This call to obedience is not merely legalistic but is rooted in love and relationship with Christ. The Apostle Paul reiterates this in Romans 6:16, "Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness?"

Theological Implications

Obedience as a covenant requirement reflects the holiness and sovereignty of God. It is an expression of faith and trust in God's character and promises. The biblical narrative consistently portrays obedience as a response to God's grace and a means of participating in His redemptive work.

The prophets frequently call Israel back to obedience, emphasizing that true worship is not merely ritualistic but involves a heart aligned with God's will. In Micah 6:8, the prophet declares, "He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?"

Practical Application

For believers today, obedience remains a vital aspect of the Christian life. It is a demonstration of faith and a reflection of the transformative work of the Holy Spirit. James 1:22 exhorts, "Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." Obedience is thus both a covenant requirement and a pathway to spiritual maturity and blessing.
source: https://biblehub.com/topical/o/obedience_as_a_covenant_requirement.htm

 

[Mem]

1 Corinthians 13:11

Your link doesn't work. What does it say?
Gal 2:18
Those attempting to keep the law, prove themselves to be lawless.

 

[Toknow]

Your link doesn't work. What does it say?
Gal 2:18

It says we all need to grow up.
Mature.

I seem to agree with all of scripture.
Even the verses you posted.

 

[legion]

You stated this in post no. 10,841

"I'm saying you are not under God's covenant with Israel, and that we have a different covenant with God, summarized in Jesus' words that all who believe in Him shall live."


We are under a different Covenant.
However, every single Covenant God made with man....
included obedience to God.
All types of Covenants included obedience.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
In the biblical narrative, obedience is a central theme, particularly as it pertains to the covenant relationship between God and His people. The concept of obedience is woven throughout the Scriptures, serving as a fundamental requirement for maintaining the covenantal bond established by God with humanity.

Old Testament Context

In the Old Testament, obedience is first seen in the context of the covenant with Adam, where God commands Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17). The failure to obey this command results in the fall, illustrating the severe consequences of disobedience.

The Abrahamic Covenant further emphasizes obedience. God commands Abraham to leave his country and promises to make him a great nation (Genesis 12:1-3). Abraham's obedience is highlighted in Genesis 22:18, where God says, "And through your offspring all nations of the earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."

The Mosaic Covenant explicitly outlines obedience as a requirement. The giving of the Law at Sinai establishes a clear framework for Israel's relationship with God. In Exodus 19:5, God declares, "Now if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, you will be My treasured possession out of all the nations." The blessings and curses associated with obedience and disobedience are detailed in Deuteronomy 28, underscoring the importance of adherence to God's commands.

New Testament Context

In the New Testament, the theme of obedience continues, with Jesus Christ exemplifying perfect obedience. Philippians 2:8 states, "And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross." Christ's obedience is central to the New Covenant, fulfilling the Law and the Prophets and establishing a new basis for righteousness.

Believers are called to emulate Christ's obedience. In John 14:15, Jesus says, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." This call to obedience is not merely legalistic but is rooted in love and relationship with Christ. The Apostle Paul reiterates this in Romans 6:16, "Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness?"

Theological Implications

Obedience as a covenant requirement reflects the holiness and sovereignty of God. It is an expression of faith and trust in God's character and promises. The biblical narrative consistently portrays obedience as a response to God's grace and a means of participating in His redemptive work.

The prophets frequently call Israel back to obedience, emphasizing that true worship is not merely ritualistic but involves a heart aligned with God's will. In Micah 6:8, the prophet declares, "He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?"

Practical Application

For believers today, obedience remains a vital aspect of the Christian life. It is a demonstration of faith and a reflection of the transformative work of the Holy Spirit. James 1:22 exhorts, "Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." Obedience is thus both a covenant requirement and a pathway to spiritual maturity and blessing.
source: https://biblehub.com/topical/o/obedience_as_a_covenant_requirement.htm

I didn't say we aren't to be obedient but I'm saying is the Mosaic law has no bearing on the Gentiles and are obedience is not based on the Mosaic law.

Oh I guess you weren't talking to me...

 

[Mem]

It says we all need to grow up.
Mature.

I seem to agree with all of scripture.
Even the verses you posted.

You also seem to interpret the words differently, even the verses posted.
That is, you hear them differently.

 

[Toknow]

I didn't say we aren't to be obedient but I'm saying is the Mosaic law has no bearing on the Gentiles and are obedience is not based on the Mosaic law.

Oh I guess you weren't talking to me...

Right.
The other member speaks in a confusing way.
He says we are to obey God.
But not really.

As to the Law...
Right...we are not under THE LAW.
We are under the Law of Christ and even this law requires obedience
but I think you agree.