Ephesians 2 is not preaching faith alone.

[LeeLoving]

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Nothing in Matthew 7:21 or John 6:40 about saved by works.

Ah, it's easily missed, but in Matthew 7:24 it says, "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:"

This is at the end of the sermon on the mount, and the sayings Jesus has been preaching are moralistic sayings such as do unto others as they do unto you and judge not that ye be not judged. Since in verse 24 Jesus says he will consider anyone wise who puts his sayings into practice I think one can surmise that the will of the Father includes doing things such as what are included in his sayings (the will of the Father which we must do to enter into the kingdom of heaven, according to Jesus), therefore certain works are necessary for salvation according to Jesus.

Here's the four verses when read together:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

 

[ATG]

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Whosoever repents to be believe on the Son shall have eternal life.

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

People isolate and separate Scripture from Scripture to their own destruction. Sinful people can only have faith-alone, by not first repenting toward God.

John 6:44 - No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 6:65 - He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

Exactly. No man can repent toward God without the Spirit's conviction of sin, and draw to repentance from dead works and faith toward God.

Acts 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?...Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Acts{11:18}
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the nations granted repentance unto life.

The Spirit of life does not draw to having dead faith-alone, but only convicts the sinner not to have faith only without works.

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

[legion]

He is quoting NT Scripture. You are rejecting quoted NT Scriptures. And the the Scriptures are teaching NT salvation, that is always with works of love through faith, not by OT works of law.

If you are rejecting works of love and faith to have godly love and faith toward God and man, then you are rejecting NT Scriptures that reject any love and faith without works.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

1Jo 3:16
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Faith-alone ideology is man's own manner of love and salvation by what he believes alone. Such faith, love, and salvation ends in the grave.


Explain how the thief had no works when rebuking the mockers of Jesus?

Tit 1:13
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Then explain how the thief entered into paradise with faith only, that is dead being without works.

All faith-alone saviors are always looking in Scripture for some way to find their own faith-alone salvation and justification, that is never there. While they openly avoid the Scriptures saying it's dead and cannot be there.

Mat 23:24
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

The Scriptures never write of having faith only without works, except to condemn it, and never to be justified by it alone.

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only…

Okay exactly what works are you referring to in the New Testament

There are just as many places in the New Testament such as John 3:16 that do not include works as a part of the Salvation process and like many I totally reject that works do anything other than gain one crowns or in some cases lose them

The reason the faith and faith with works conundrum exist is because there is no definitive Line in the Sand in the text of the Bible old or new testament and therefore really becomes a matter of faith. Personally I think this is intentional on the spirits part to cause us to dig into the Bible.

For just about every place you can point where the two words faith and works seem to be combined there are just as many where it is simply faith

And I wish I had a link to the response I got from one of our friends formerly involved in Judaism who had a very outstanding explanation as it related to baptism being part of salvation I'll have to try to look that up and update this message

My point is this I'm saved I know that I know that I know I produce some fruits maybe not as many as people would hope we can always do better but there is evidence in my life that I am one of God's children my only work is to love God and to love others which I do periodically

If you think that works implies anything other than love of God and love of neighbor then you have confused the issue from my perspective

Organizations like Hebrew roots and SDA seem to think that our works involve the Mosaic law which is absurd and directly against the teachings of the New Testament.

 

[legion]

Whosoever repents to be believe on the Son shall have eternal life.

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

People isolate and separate Scripture from Scripture to their own destruction. Sinful people can only have faith-alone, by not first repenting toward God.

Exactly. No man can repent toward God without the Spirit's conviction of sin, and draw to repentance from dead works and faith toward God.

Acts 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?...Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Acts{11:18}
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the nations granted repentance unto life.

The Spirit of life does not draw to having dead faith-alone, but only convicts the sinner not to have faith only without works.

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

This is a great response

 

[Nedsk]

I find your blatant dishonesty followed by a Lol to be very disturbing. Common troll behavior.

You are not fooling anyone.

Where have I been dishonest? You clearly either don't or can't understand what I am saying.

Neither are you

 

[Nedsk]

Ok. Just so you know, you won't get any thanks for cleaning up after the children. It's your duty.

I never asked for thanks because that's not why I do things.

 

[Mem]

I never asked for thanks because that's not why I do things.

At any rate, thanks are nice, unexpected gifts to get every once in a while. And your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Nedsk]

Okay exactly what works are you referring to in the New Testament

There are just as many places in the New Testament such as John 3:16 that do not include works as a part of the Salvation process and like many I totally reject that works do anything other than gain one crowns or in some cases lose them

The reason the faith and faith with works conundrum exist is because there is no definitive Line in the Sand in the text of the Bible old or new testament and therefore really becomes a matter of faith. Personally I think this is intentional on the spirits part to cause us to dig into the Bible.

For just about every place you can point where the two words faith and works seem to be combined there are just as many where it is simply faith

And I wish I had a link to the response I got from one of our friends formerly involved in Judaism who had a very outstanding explanation as it related to baptism being part of salvation I'll have to try to look that up and update this message

My point is this I'm saved I know that I know that I know I produce some fruits maybe not as many as people would hope we can always do better but there is evidence in my life that I am one of God's children my only work is to love God and to love others which I do periodically

If you think that works implies anything other than love of God and love of neighbor then you have confused the issue from my perspective

Organizations like Hebrew roots and SDA seem to think that our works involve the Mosaic law which is absurd and directly against the teachings of the New Testament.

Seeing the word "faith" by itself in a sentence doesn't mean faith alone. Does that really need to be explained to you? James says works complete faith so when Paul uses faith by itself in a sentence he must be referring to the "completed" faith mentioned by James and if not then you have a dilemma on your hands.

But let's play your game and say that because the word "faith" appears by itself in sentences in Scripture that means faith alone is sufficient for salvation. You still have a problem though because the only place where "faith" and "alone" appear together in Scripture is in James 2 and those words are preceded by, "justified by works and not...".

 

[Nedsk]

At any rate, thanks are nice, unexpected gifts to get every once in a while. And your thoughts are appreciated.

They are and I appreciate them but they aren't why I do anything. Just a personal philosophy. I can control what I say and do but not whether others appreciate what I say and do.

 

[Mem]

They are and I appreciate them but they aren't why I do anything. Just a personal philosophy. I can control what I say and do but not whether others appreciate what I say and do.

Trying to control others, haa! If only.

 

[legion]

Seeing the word "faith" by itself in a sentence doesn't mean faith alone. Does that really need to be explained to you? James says works complete faith so when Paul uses faith by itself in a sentence he must be referring to the "completed" faith mentioned by James and if not then you have a dilemma on your hands.

But let's play your game and say that because the word "faith" appears by itself in sentences in Scripture that means faith alone is sufficient for salvation. You still have a problem though because the only place where "faith" and "alone" appear together in Scripture is in James 2 and those words are preceded by, "justified by works and not...".

That is simply your interpretation and it is not the only one based on those scriptures you have to realize that just because some sect of Christianity views it in the way that you do that that's the end analysis nor only interpretation

I'm saved I know I'm saved I'm saved because I have faith in Jesus I responded to the call and I believe Jesus is who he says he is. I do produce good fruit most of the time which is the work we are asked to do which is summarized and I'll say for the at least 10th time in this conversation love God and love your neighbor and in so doing you fulfill the entirety of the law.

 

[Nedsk]

Trying to control others, haa! If only.

The world would be a great place for me if I could

 

[Mem]

The world would be a great place for me if I could

I would be a terrible at it. I never finish any projects I start. There'd be half finished projects strewn all over the place, and the world would be a mess.

 

[Nedsk]

That is simply your interpretation and it is not the only one based on those scriptures you have to realize that just because some sect of Christianity views it in the way that you do that that's the end analysis nor only interpretation

I'm saved I know I'm saved I'm saved because I have faith in Jesus I responded to the call and I believe Jesus is who he says he is. I do produce good fruit most of the time which is the work we are asked to do which is summarized and I'll say for the at least 10th time in this conversation love God and love your neighbor and in so doing you fulfill the entirety of the law.

But according to Scripture you're saved by a faith that is completed by works. Faith is not just belief it's belief and doing. You say you "...produce good fruit (works, my word) most of the time..." I would suggest that means they are a choice and not the product (produce) of faith. A tomato plant has no choice but to produce tomatoes

 

[Nedsk]

I would be a terrible at it. I never finish any projects I start. There'd be half finished projects strewn all over the place, and the world would be a mess.

But if you were in control you could have someone else finish them for you. You probably have a ton of great ideas

 

[legion]

But according to Scripture you're saved by a faith that is completed by works. Faith is not just belief it's belief and doing. You say you "...produce good fruit (works, my word) most of the time..." I would suggest that means they are a choice and not the product (produce) of faith. A tomato plant has no choice but to produce tomatoes

Unfortunately I find nowhere in the Bible that supports what you're saying and I'm not alone the larger majority of protestant Christianity does not believe that works have anything to do with your salvation

And you need to realize that based on your comment about producing good works such as a tomato plant completely overrides the concept of Free Will and makes us automatons you don't instantly become perfect upon salvation and those imperfections are not necessarily sin

How will I do good today will I pray for somebody will I feed the hungry will I contemplate a Bible reading. Will I relax and pick pick it up tomorrow? All of these are perfectly valid choices

All of this is within our freedom. We aren't slaves in the American sense.

 

[GWH]

Eph 2:8 is used by many Christians to preach a gospel of salvation and justification by faith alone without works; Which some say is justification by faith apart from any works that we may be doing at the time, whether good or evil. So what does the Scripture say?

Other than James 2 declaring that faith alone without works is dead, and can save no man; Eph 2 isn't talking about faith alone without works. Rather Eph2 is making the difference between the faith of God with works of grace, vs the faith of man with works to brag about.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

That not of ourselves, is that faith that is of God, and not of ourselves. And so we see the division made between the two. The same faith is not being spoken of throughout this verse of Scripture.

Only that faith by grace is the gift of God, but that faith of man is by his own will alone.

Psa 146:3
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

By grace, the gift of God is that faith in Jesus Christ, by which we can do the works of God that please Him, and not ourselves alone. We no more do our own works by our own faith, which we can temporarily boast of:

Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

1Co 9:24
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

But now by grace through Jesus' gift of faith, we cease doing our own works of faith, and instead can by God's faith, do His good will forever:

Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1Co 15:10
t by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

1Jo 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Your post began well but would have been better if it had not cut off Eph. 2:9-10 from verse 8.

 

[Nedsk]

Unfortunately I find nowhere in the Bible that supports what you're saying and I'm not alone the larger majority of protestant Christianity does not believe that works have anything to do with your salvation

And you need to realize that based on your comment about producing good works such as a tomato plant completely overrides the concept of Free Will and makes us automatons you don't instantly become perfect upon salvation and those imperfections are not necessarily sin

How will I do good today will I pray for somebody will I feed the hungry will I contemplate a Bible reading. Will I relax and pick pick it up tomorrow? All of these are perfectly valid choices

All of this is within our freedom. We aren't slaves in the American sense.

If 100 million people say 2+2=5 that doesn't make it so. You understand that correct?

Beyond that obvious point James 2:22 "Thus you can see that his (Abraham) faith was brought to completion by works." If faith alone was sufficient it wouldn't need completion. That which is already complete does not need completion so by definition faith alone doctrine is in biblical. Now you can say you disagree with my interpretation but to say you see no evidence of what I said in Scripture, irrational at best and nonsensical at worst.

 

[GWH]

Unfortunately I find nowhere in the Bible that supports what you're saying and I'm not alone the larger majority of protestant Christianity does not believe that works have anything to do with your salvation

And you need to realize that based on your comment about producing good works such as a tomato plant completely overrides the concept of Free Will and makes us automatons you don't instantly become perfect upon salvation and those imperfections are not necessarily sin

How will I do good today will I pray for somebody will I feed the hungry will I contemplate a Bible reading. Will I relax and pick pick it up tomorrow? All of these are perfectly valid choices

All of this is within our freedom. We aren't slaves in the American sense.

I might have had a tendency to divorce Eph. 2:10 from Eph. 2:8-9, but discussion on CC prompted the insight that saving faith at conversion will be followed by persevering faith during sanctification.

 

[legion]

If 100 million people say 2+2=5 that doesn't make it so. You understand that correct?

Beyond that obvious point James 2:22 "Thus you can see that his (Abraham) faith was brought to completion by works." If you're reading the completion part faith alone was sufficient it wouldn't need completion. That which is already complete does not need completion so by definition faith alone doctrine is in biblical. Now you can say you disagree with my interpretation but to say you see no evidence of what I said in Scripture, irrational at best and nonsensical at worst.

If 100 million people say 2+2=5 that doesn't make it so. You understand that correct?

Beyond that obvious point James 2:22 "Thus you can see that his (Abraham) faith was brought to completion by works." If faith alone was sufficient it wouldn't need completion. That which is already complete does not need completion so by definition faith alone doctrine is in biblical. Now you can say you disagree with my interpretation but to say you see no evidence of what I said in Scripture, irrational at best and nonsensical at worst.

It was his faith that was counted as righteousness his Works didn't have anything to do with it he had faith and God credited him with righteousness

Our works and by proxy the attempt at using them to gain righteousness is as filthy rags and the reference there is rags with women's menstrual cycle on them it is a heavy condemnation of works