Why not quote the law Paul is speaking about in this context of Galatians, for some reason that was missed and its being applied to another law that he is not speaking about in this context. The law he said keeping is what matters, because breaking it dishonors God, makes one a sinner and an enmity to God. I would hate to get these mixed up by not allowing Paul to explain what he is referring to in the passage being quoted that seems to be left out.
Does Grace replace the law?
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You need to read Romans Ch 9 very carefully. Also I’d say it’s Gods way not ours , if we obey the truth of God , and I pray we do ! Humbly seek the truth !Please allow me to clarify your statement, which begins well by saying that
"sin and failure should promote repentance, and it’s God that leads us in repentance to Christ and forgiveness which is the grace of God. Without God's work in our lives we are hopelessly lost. Jesus said no man can come to me except the father draw them to him. So Law and Grace work together to bring the sinners into the Kingdom of God. The only thing we can do is seek the mercy of God and he will start working to bring you to his Salvation..."
So far, so good, but then you derailed by saying "if he has mercy on us." IF should not be applied to God's will, but rather to sinners' MFW: IF sinners choose to repent, then God will have mercy on them (Heb. 11:6).
And re "He said I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy": Yes, and God desires to have mercy on everyone (1Tim. 2:3-4).
Re "it’s not a free will thing": If it were not for MFW, God would make everyone be saved (Matt. 23:37).
Re "John the Baptist said no man can receive anything except God give it to him." No, but John the Apostle said God will give eternal life to every man who believes in Jesus as Messiah (John 3:16, 6:29, 10:7-10, etc.)
Re "God will have mercy over judgement so seeking his mercy is a good thing to do": Yes, and he who seeks will find (Matt. 7:7).
God so loves the world.
I have read the entire context for Romans 9 taking notes in five translations, and here is part of my latest study:
18. Romans 5:1 echoes Eph. 2:8 by describing s/e as justification through faith, Eph. 1:5 & 7 by using the phrase “through Jesus Christ”, and Eph. 2:14 by describing s/e as having peace with God. [IF whosoever believes in JC]
19. Romans 5:2 & 5 also echo Eph. 2:18 & 3:1 by describing s/e as having access to God’s grace via the Holy Spirit.
20. Romans 5:6-10 states that God’s love (cf. kindness in #3) for the ungodly, for sinners and for His enemies is demonstrated by Christ dying for their s/e or justification/reconciliation.
21. Romans 5:12-21 describes s/e in corporate terms, saying that–like the first man–all (many?) men also sinned and died, and God’s grace comes to all (many?) because of Jesus Christ.
22. Romans 6:1-14 describes s/e in terms of Christians being united with Christ’s death and resurrection, so they who are under grace should not allow sin to reign in their bodies but should instead serve God as instruments of righteousness.
23. Romans 6:15-23 describes s/e in terms of being slaves to whom one willingly obeys, whether to sin or to obedience of God’s teaching that leads to righteousness, which results in eternal life “in Christ Jesus our Lord” (cf. #10).
24. Romans 7:1-6 describes s/e in terms of a wife’s remarriage after the death of her husband, saying that Christians have been released from the dead letter of the law so that they may serve God in the new way of the Spirit.
25. In Romans 7:7-25 Paul describes s/e in terms of struggle between what a person’s conscience wants to do and what his sinful nature causes him to do until he is rescued by Christ.
26. In Romans 8:1-25 Paul describes the s/e struggle in terms of Christians–who are indwelt by the Spirit and freed from living in accordance with the sinful nature—as putting to death sinful deeds, because they are God’s children and co-heirs of Christ’s glorious resurrection.
27. In Romans 8:28-30 Paul says that those who love God were foreknown and “predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son”, which is akin to what Paul said in Ephesians 1:4-14, that before creating the world God chose or predestined those sinners “in Christ” to be blameless sons and receive the Holy Spirit.
28. Romans 8:31-39 elaborates on the previous point by saying that there is nothing that can separate “we” (who reflect God’s love per v.28) from Christ’s love (but Heb. 10:26-36 indicates one exception).
29. In Romans 9:1-5 Paul notes how sad it is that those who are part of the human ancestry of Christ reject him as Messiah, but being a member of Abraham’s spiritual children is what is crucial (#17).
30. Romans 9:6-13 states that God had chosen which one of Rebecca’s sons (through whom Messiah’s lineage would be traced) before they were born (cf. Mal. 1:2-3). The word translated as “hate” (miseo) is the same as in Luke 14:26 with reference to family, so a better translation would be “preferred”: loving Jacob/hating Esau refers to God preferring that Jacob’s descendants serve as the heritage for Messiah rather than to individual salvation.
Rom. 9:11-16 says that God’s purpose in election is for salvation not to be by means of works or human effort but by God having mercy on whom He wants or chooses.
31. Romans 9:14-16 stresses that s/e depends on God’s mercy rather than being achieved by human effort (#12), although the preceding context has shown that (the non-meritorious condition of) faith is involved, which truth can be stated as “God initiates; sinners cooperate—or not”, because of MFW.
32. Romans 9:17 refers to pharaoh in Exodus 9:13-35 as an example of someone whom God allowed to oppose His will so that His power might be manifested by the plagues. The OT passage indicates that pharaoh was conscious of his sin but “He and his officials hardened their hearts” (v.34b).
33. Romans 9:18 says that God “hardens whom He wants to harden”, which raises the question asked in v.19, “Why does God blame sinners who cannot resist His will?” Paul’s response (Rom. 9:20-21) is that God has the might and thus the right to determine what is right. Then he speculates (“What if”) that God might have patiently endured evildoers (#20) as evidence of His glory toward recipients of His mercy. Rom. 9:22-23 indicates that God could have chosen to condemn everyone to show his power, but some are shown mercy, presumably those who did NOT refuse to love the truth.
34. In Romans 9:24-33 and 10:1-4 Paul notes that God elected to choose Gentiles with saving faith instead of Israelites who sought salvation by works and stumbled over the Gospel of Christ, even though “everyone who believes” receives righteousness or s/e.
35. Romans 10:9 states God’s requirement for s/e as “confess Jesus as the resurrected Lord”, v.10 clarifies that the condition of faith (#31) precedes the work of confession, and vs.11-13 reiterate that all sinners who call on the name of the Lord will be s/e.
36. Romans 10:18 cites Psalm 19:4, which hints that God’s s/e has been possible for everyone in the world. This implication may also be seen in Gal. 3:8, Col. 1:23 and Tit. 2:11 as well as Rom. 1:20.
37. Romans 11:5-7a refers to an elect “remnant chosen by grace”, which indicates that sinners may cooperate with God’s calling to be s/e “or not” (#35).
38. Romans 11:7b-8 needs to be understood in the context of pharaoh (#32), whose heart God allowed to be hardened. “God gave them a spirit of stupor” echoes what Paul said in Romans 1:24 & 28, that God gave fools over to perversion and a depraved mind.
39. Romans 11:11-15 speaks of the blindness of Israel as the reason s/e was offered to Gentiles,
and Paul hopes Israel will become envious (v.11 & 14) and prompted to accept Christ.
40. Romans 11:17-24 describes the situation of Israel as comparable to grafting branches onto a tree, and the condition of faith (#37) is quite explicit (v.20-23).
41. Romans 11:25-32 explains the s/e of corporate Israel as a partial and temporary hardening until all in corporate Gentiles “may” be s/e, at which time all Israel “may” be s/e.
42. Romans 11:33-36 concludes Paul’s development of the DOE by acknowledging that God’s mind is unknowable beyond what He reveals.
Over...
I prefer to read the book of Romans from start to finish when I have the time . I have no difficulty understanding it as it is written. Thanks to the Holy Spirit , who brings out truth in clarity when needed . That’s why I still read the living word of God it speaks to me like no other book can . Amen ! I hope your journey is fruitful! End of discussion.
Yes, from start to finish is necessary for understanding Romans 9--and it doesn't hurt to do the same from Genesis to Revelation for understanding everything in between. It took me several times, but I gleaned some new understanding/harmonization each time.
Glad you did not disagree with what I gleaned from the part I shared. I will consider our discussion fruitful for that reason.
Welcome to CC, BTW. Happy trails!
The law has no authority over the dead. We in Christ are dead to the law, therefore there can be no transgression against it.
Transgression is not hearkening to the words of Christ.
For the law works wrath. Yet where law isn't, neither is transgression. Romans 4:15
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. Romans 7:4
Transgression is not hearkening to the words of Christ.
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:48
We are not regenerated due to our obedience, we are regenerated due to our trust in Jesus Christ.
Having been regenerated we pass from death to life.
The grace that leads to life is our trust in Jesus.
John 1:12-13 KJV
12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 5:24 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Much love!
Can you illustrate these two laws from say Galatians 5?
I need to understand how you navigate your way through Galatians 5.
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. John 5:46
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." Deut 18:18
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? John 5:46-47
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. John 12:49-50
Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. John 12:44
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. John 8:51
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:26
It is not cherry picking, it is gathering the fragments.
it all goes together belief, trust, Love ,obedience, are you afraid to obey GOD? what do you think will happen if you do?
LOL!!
Are you afraid of grace? Does it feel out of control?
How would you feel if your wife left you to go dig up the body of her dead previous husband to sit at the kitchen table with instead of you?
Romans 7:4 KJV
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Much love!
It remains true:
We are not regenerated due to our obedience, we are regenerated due to our trust in Jesus Christ.
Much love!
The only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough righteous works in order to earn it as the result, but what it means to be righteous is to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God (1 John 3:4-7, Isaiah 51:7), so it would be contradictory for someone to become righteous apart from becoming a doer of righteous works. This is why the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works also upholds the Law of God (Romans 3:28-31). Someone who abuses 1 Timothy 1:9 in order to try to justify their freedom to be a doer of unrighteousness works is someone that the Law of God is made for.
This is accomplished by those who walk in faith according to the spirit, not in those who walk according to the law.
That the righteous work of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:4
In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God.
Walking according to the flesh also includes those trying to walk according to the law
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 9:30-33
God has not commanded anything that is not in accordance with walking in the Spirit, but rather God's character traits are the fruits of the Spirit and the Law of God is His instructions for how to embody His character traits, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-26). The Son is the radiant of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of God. In Galatians 5:16-23, Paul contrasted the desires of the flesh with the desires of the Spirit and everything that listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Law of God while all of the fruits of the Spirit as aspects of God's character traits that it was given in order to teach us how to embody.
The Hebrew word “yada” refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God’s way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by having the experience of embodying His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of His household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Law of God is to graciously teach us how to experience an intimate relationship with God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life.
In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the Law of God by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works instead of pursuing it as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith.
Those who walk according to the rule, "do to others as you would have them do to you" are fulfilling everything the law requires.
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12
I'm not sure what that that has to do with responding to what I said. Love fulfills the Law of God because the goal of everything in it is to teach us how to love. If we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit idolatry, murder, adultery, theft, kidnapping, rape, favoritism, and so forth for the rest of the Law of God. Someone who was correctly living in obedience to the greatest two commandments would be indistinguishable from someone who was correctly living in obedience to the rest of the Law of God because they would both be following the same example that Jesus set for us to follow, which is why love fulfills the law.
The point is if you have love in your heart and treat others as Jesus said to do, then you won't violate what the law of Moses requires. Simple. One law to bind all of humanity together, and it comes from within, not from tablets of stone.