So you don't think the Sabbath is part of the Mosaic law like I said people who hold on to this Mosaic thing don't even understand it even when it's core tenants such as the Sabbath
The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?
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Watch how they cut passages short. It’s always a key to what text they avoid that contradicts their doctrine.
Like above, Isaiah 56:6… if you keep reading you find this:
“…their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar”
So, if they keep the Sabbath, even foreigners, their burnt offerings will be accepted on the alter of the Lord.
They quote this to give relevance to their doctrine of Sabbath-keeping. But, what is the Lord’s ultimate judgment about burnt offerings? Look to the Revelation found in Hebrews 10:
“It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll— I have come to do your will, my God.’ ” First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
The Sabbath is irrevocably attached to the burnt offerings… they are of the same “first” that was set aside, eventhough they were done in accordance with the law!
So what is the Lord’s after? Holiness by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, for all. He is the Body prepared for God’s habitation.
Interestingly even the sojourners with Israel were permitted to eat meat that was already dead, and a few other mosaic laws that they didn't have to abide by as well I can't remember them all off the top of my head
You need to read more than the individual verses because clearly you misunderstand how the nation of Israel came to be so not only do you not understand the Mosaic law you misunderstand the Old Testament.
I'm not the one who said Jesus Christ dying on the cross wasn't enough and that we need to invoke the Mosaic law still after the fact which is clearly adding to the Bible because nowhere in the New Testament is it ever told to the Gentiles to follow the Mosaic law yet here we are debating that we're supposed to be following it
Go for one you can't weave a bunch of Old Testament statements and then insert a Cherry Picked one out of the New Testament to prove your point
Second the Mosaic law is a composite one for all you either have the entire Mosaic law or you do not. the crazy idea that little bread crumbs left from the beginning of Genesis into the story of Moses for mankind is completely made up
Well God did take a rest on the seventh day he did not command everybody else to do so which in this case was Adam and Eve you're reading a presupposition into the text
Depends upon what you mean by administration and ministries. I'm not talking about the gifts of the Spirit.
One of the frustrating things about Christians is their ignorance of what God has done for us in Christ already. I don't have to desire to be like Jesus. The promise of God is two fold: first, when I see Jesus, I will be like Him. Second, as He is, so am I in the world.
I am right now a new creation, a brand new man. The old has passed away. I died and my life is hidden in Christ with God. Jesus is my life now.
When we accept as true for us the promises of God, we can become partakers of the divine nature. The problem for many is that they put off everything to the future. I was no different for way too long. So I'm not trying to be critical or judgemental.
I know that you mean well, so please don't take this the wrong way. Satan wanted to be like God also. The question for us is how we are going about it. If we are trying to be like Jesus by our own efforts, we will surely fail. God will see to it, because He will not share His glory with another. If we accept and live in the light of God's promises, we will know victory over sin and self.
You overlook the fact that Lord Jesus lived under the Old Covenant of law but was the initiator of the principle of grace. Jesus said to the self righteous rich man that his obedience to the law was insufficient. "Jesus answered, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honour your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.’”
Jesus did not mention the sabbath. If it was as important as SDA heresy claims, that should have been top of the list. And obedience to the law was not enough. Lord Jesus told him to sell everything and follow Himself.
The rich man asked the wrong question. The publican cried out, "God be merciful to me, a sinner". And God forgave him. The rich man went away disappointed. "What must I do?" I said that the moment I realised that I was a sinner and going to hell. Thank God for the man who led me to Christ. He told me that Lord Jesus had already done everything necessary for my salvation. All I had to do was accept Lord Jesus and the wonderful work he had done.
Israel had the law and the covenants. They saw God's glory and victory. There were times of great blessing and times when it seemed that God had forsaken them. They knew the law of blessing and cursing, but it did nothing to change their hearts. The law has no mercy and no grace. You can't have a relationship with a stone.
I agree, but for one thing. There are people on the forum who might be persuaded by those who promote SDA and similar legalistic false doctrines. So I endeavour to refute their arguments.
"Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for anyone else who is averse to sound teaching that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted." 1 Timothy 1:8-11
Jesus is Lord, not the law.
What is the difference between those that believe and are not saved and those that believe and are saved.
The 10 virgins all knew the bridegroom.
Mat 25:11-12
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Knowing Jesus is our Lord is not enough.
Knowing about Him is not enough.
Mat 7:13-20
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Few there be that find it... is it a simple, easy, Walk in the park to be saved.
No few find it because the devil is really good a lieing to people. He is good at telling people they are saved and giving a false sense of security. His first lie was .... you will not surely die....
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
The lie of the devil today is ....
You will not die, Jesus done everything at the cross, just believe in Jesus and your saved..
The devil will mix truth and error so people are confused.
What does Jesus say. ....
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Jesus teaches that we must believe in Him as our personal Saviour, repent of our sins, and walk in a path of humble obedience to God's commandments through His enabling grace.
"What shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Matthew 19:16.
The first step is recognizing that we cannot save ourselves through our own efforts. We must place our entire trust in Jesus. He is the only way to the Father John 14:6.
A Gift of Love. John 3:16
Jesus is our Perfect Substitute. Jesus took our place and suffered the penalty of justice that should have fallen on us Galatians 3:13. He was "set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood" so that God might be just and the justifier of those who believe, Romans 3:25-26.
So God can be the justifier and be Just.
To be saved, we must accept the robe of His righteousness as our own. He is "able also to save them to the uttermost that come to God by him" Hebrews 7:25.
But there is more which the devil wants everyone to egnore.....we need to Repent and Be Born Again.
Believing in Jesus naturally leads to a change of heart. We cannot continue in the old ways of sin if we truly love Him.
Our love for Jesus will lead to a Turning Away from Sin: When people asked the apostles what they must do, the answer was clear: "Repent, and be baptized" Acts 2:38.
A New Heart is the result of Gods Spirit working in us. True salvation involves an entire transformation of character. It is God who works in us "both to will and to do of his good pleasure" Philippians 2:13.
If we humble our hearts and confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive us and reconcile us to God 1 John 1:9.
Jesus made it very clear that love for Him is inseparable from obedience. While the law has no "saving properties" to pardon a transgressor, it is the standard of character that shows us our need for a Saviour Galatians 3:24.
When the young man asked how to enter into life, Jesus told him, "keep the commandments" Matthew 19:17.
Obedience is the Fruit of Faith. We do not obey to get saved, but because we are saved. Good works are the fruitful evidence that we are treading the path to heaven Matthew 19:21.
Keeping the Sabbath holy is a sign of our loyalty to God and our recognition of Him as the one who sanctifies us Exodus 31:13. It is a vital part of honoring Him 1 Samuel 2:30.
Jesus invites us, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" Matthew 11:28. By coming to Him, trusting His sacrifice, and obeying His Word, we find the path to eternal life.
The 10 virgins all knew the bridegroom.
Mat 25:11-12
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Knowing Jesus is our Lord is not enough.
Knowing about Him is not enough.
Mat 7:13-20
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Few there be that find it... is it a simple, easy, Walk in the park to be saved.
No few find it because the devil is really good a lieing to people. He is good at telling people they are saved and giving a false sense of security. His first lie was .... you will not surely die....
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
The lie of the devil today is ....
You will not die, Jesus done everything at the cross, just believe in Jesus and your saved..
The devil will mix truth and error so people are confused.
What does Jesus say. ....
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Jesus teaches that we must believe in Him as our personal Saviour, repent of our sins, and walk in a path of humble obedience to God's commandments through His enabling grace.
"What shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Matthew 19:16.
The first step is recognizing that we cannot save ourselves through our own efforts. We must place our entire trust in Jesus. He is the only way to the Father John 14:6.
A Gift of Love. John 3:16
Jesus is our Perfect Substitute. Jesus took our place and suffered the penalty of justice that should have fallen on us Galatians 3:13. He was "set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood" so that God might be just and the justifier of those who believe, Romans 3:25-26.
So God can be the justifier and be Just.
To be saved, we must accept the robe of His righteousness as our own. He is "able also to save them to the uttermost that come to God by him" Hebrews 7:25.
But there is more which the devil wants everyone to egnore.....we need to Repent and Be Born Again.
Believing in Jesus naturally leads to a change of heart. We cannot continue in the old ways of sin if we truly love Him.
Our love for Jesus will lead to a Turning Away from Sin: When people asked the apostles what they must do, the answer was clear: "Repent, and be baptized" Acts 2:38.
A New Heart is the result of Gods Spirit working in us. True salvation involves an entire transformation of character. It is God who works in us "both to will and to do of his good pleasure" Philippians 2:13.
If we humble our hearts and confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive us and reconcile us to God 1 John 1:9.
Jesus made it very clear that love for Him is inseparable from obedience. While the law has no "saving properties" to pardon a transgressor, it is the standard of character that shows us our need for a Saviour Galatians 3:24.
When the young man asked how to enter into life, Jesus told him, "keep the commandments" Matthew 19:17.
Obedience is the Fruit of Faith. We do not obey to get saved, but because we are saved. Good works are the fruitful evidence that we are treading the path to heaven Matthew 19:21.
Keeping the Sabbath holy is a sign of our loyalty to God and our recognition of Him as the one who sanctifies us Exodus 31:13. It is a vital part of honoring Him 1 Samuel 2:30.
Jesus invites us, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" Matthew 11:28. By coming to Him, trusting His sacrifice, and obeying His Word, we find the path to eternal life.
Obviously there is a difference in their definition of “Believe.” The meaning of belief that leads one to absolute trust in the work of the Christ Jesus encompasses much more than an intellectual exercise.
Till one understands the Biblical meaning of belief that transcends the mere every day modern term, people are just Talking past each other.
Proverbs 18:21
“Death and life are in the power of the tongue.” (Words)
The verse is emphasizing that words can build someone up, encourage, heal, and strengthen—even bring eternal life, or they can wound, discourage, divide, and destroy. It is one of the strongest reminders that what we say can have lasting effects on other people.
Do not be deceived. The Pharisees were experts at promoting the law foundation and were condemned by Jesus for being the children of Satan (John 8:42-44). Likewise Paul condemned those who perverted the Gospel of Christ that built on and superseded salvation via obeying the law (Gal. 1:6-9).
Heresy is not fine. Instead we should encourage people to become Christians.
Gal 5:4
Paul has said repeatedly that choosing between following the law, as opposed to trusting in Christ, as a means to be accepted by God is a choice between slavery and freedom. He has urged the Galatian Christians not to be talked into following the law and thus make themselves slaves to the law (Galatians 4:1–7).
Some might be tempted to think they could do both: "Who knows if faith alone, or faith-plus works is right? Do I trust Paul, or the Judaizers? I'll just do it all to make sure I'm covered. I don't want to risk not being accepted by God, after all."
However, Paul is showing his readers that acceptance by God is exactly what they risk by trying to do both. Someone who adds works to faith in Christ "just in case" is not truly trusting in Christ, at all. Now Paul puts it in even harsher terms: That person is "severed" or alienated from Christ. Someone who is trying to be justified—"made right with God"—by following the law has missed out on the grace of God.
I'd like to share something the Lord showed me. Ever meet people that insist on referencing 'teachings' outside the Bible? Are these greeks seeking wisdom? The Lord said this would happen. The Jews sought after a sign.
1 Corinthians 1:22-24
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Here the the Jews and the disciples. Notice the difference. The disciples believed 'it is written', just like the Lord did when He was tempted by satan. The others? The Lord did not commit himself unto them.
John 2
17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
The next chapter, John 3 teaches 'Ye must be born again'
Here is John 8, read carefully.
Here are some that "believed on him"
John 8
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
1 Corinthians 1:22-24
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Here the the Jews and the disciples. Notice the difference. The disciples believed 'it is written', just like the Lord did when He was tempted by satan. The others? The Lord did not commit himself unto them.
John 2
17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
The next chapter, John 3 teaches 'Ye must be born again'
Here is John 8, read carefully.
Here are some that "believed on him"
John 8
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
No, But by default you and @sabbathblessings are saying it is not a sin to not love thy neighbor as yourself because it is NOT in the Decalogue.
As it is not a sin by default to commit homosexuality and incest according to you and her because they are not in the Decalogue.
And according to her and you it is okay to commit bestiality and rape because they are not in the Ten commandments.
And it is okay to consult the dead and perform witchcraft because they are not in the Ten either.
As it is not a sin not to obey magistrates who God put over us because it is not in the Ten.
As it is not a sin to not study the Word of God and share it though it mentioned in Leviticus because it is not a sin mention in the Ten Commandments.
As it is not a sin to not pray for others though it is mentioned that is in Samuel because it is not mentioned in the Decalogue.
There are more sins as these which you and I know are sins that are not mention in the Decalogue.
And no they are not in the Ten and they are not connected to the Ten. Bestiality, fornication and incest is not adultery and can not be connected to it.
Adultery can only be done between married people. That is it.
No rabbit holes please. I will not go down them.
Because This above is the crux of the matter and we will not be distracted from it, Since the Word of God tell us it is His Word, not just the Decalogue is in out hearts and mouths. Rom 10:6-8; Deut30:10-8
As it says it is His Law not just the Ten that in our hearts and minds in Heb 8:10; Jer 31:33 not just the Ten Commandments.
As God says also in synonymously to the above that He will give us a new heart through the Spirit, HIS that we walk in His ways. Ezek 36:26; Phil 2:13
These text above should be all that you need to drop this and recant.
The Law shows us what sin is. It never made anyone righteous because all have sinned.
Through Christ's life, death, and resurrection We are dead but alive, yet not us but Christ Jesus Lives in us. And the life we now live in the flesh we live by the FAITH OF the Son of God who gave Himself for us. We who have been Baptized into Christ have put on Christ. We are a new creature which has risen with Him in His resurrection through His Spirit that the Body of Sin be destroyed that we do not serve sin Because we are walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh.
That is why the Word of God tell us it is His Word, is in out hearts and mouths. Rom 10:6-8; Deut30:10-8 which includes the Ten commandments and so much more besides what is contained in the Book of the Law and the Prophets.
As it says it is His Law is in our hearts and minds in Heb 8:10; Jer 31:33 not just Commandments. This includes the Ten commandments and so much more besides what is contained in the Book of the Law and the Prophets.
As God says also in synonymously to the above that He will give us a new heart through the Spirit, HIS that we walk in His ways. Ezek 36:26; Phil 2:13
This includes the Ten commandments and so much more besides what is contained in the Book of the Law and the Prophets.
For the Word, the Law, through His Spirit has been manifested in our flesh. He in us, us in Him that the world might believe.
Not sure if im agreeing or not butfor reference, im a gentile convert, the law has never and will never apply to me. Faith in Jesus's claim and ressurection saves me, the entirety of God's commands to me is love God and love neighbors. All other commands are fulfilled in this.
A lot of Sabbath worshippers and Christians who lean more onto the OT than to Christ are causing strife and fruitless debates on the forums from what I have seen.
No one here is leaning onto the OT.
It’s God that works in us both to Will and do his good pleasure. For he has said he will put his law into our minds and hearts. And said again, he will put his word in our hearts and mouths that we do it. For he has given us his spirit that we walk in his ways through Jesus Christ. Amen.
Yes me as well I have noticed this and do you know what stands out in my mind is that basic Christianity does not impose works as part of Faith or salvation only in that you will have fruits that provide evidence of the Salvation this is part of the Gospel message as it speaks to the completeness of Jesus Christ work on the cross
So by definition if you are a believer that believes that works are a part of all of this then you simply are not a Christian believer and from a Christian perspective it is heresy but for some reason they seem to want to try to impose this on Christianity rather than keep it to themselves and quit fighting about it
Hebrew roots is the worst at this followed by SDA although there are others such as Church of Christ who seem to want to impose baptism as a requirement for salvation.
It makes me realize how true one of the verses in the Bible is when it states that Paul's teachings are difficult or that narrow is the way because it is a complete reversal of what people in that time frame in particular the Jewish people had come to understand
I was involved in Hebrew roots for a few years and very early on in it literally had a disturbing feeling in my spirit kind of like you see Paul had when he dealt with the epicureans and stoics where I was very very uncomfortable and then I began to see that Hebrew roots actively was attacking Paul's easy to understand statements about the food laws about the Mosaic law fading and becoming obsolete.
I'm sure that was difficult in that time frame to see this as the truth and in fact may have been difficult easily up into 70 AD when the temple was destroyed and it became impossible to follow the law
And for some reason they get stuck on Matthew 5:17 I believe which actually if you read the text it's not saying anything about it being binding on anybody it's simply saying that the Mosaic law will exist and it does we have it in our Bibles it's pretty plain but since we incorporate the to knock into our Christian Bible that the Mosaic law is present it's just not binding
