The "Secret Rapture" is a False Doctrine.

[Psalm1]

If you are once again saying the kingdom of heaven and God come with the Lord to earth, is in heaven, then corrected it enough.




I center on what Scripture says: Entering the door to meet the Lord at His coming against to earth, who is in the air with the midnight cry and call to His marriage.

You add the Lord goes back to heaven for the marriage, rather than remains on earth to then destroy His enemies, and rule with His resurrected bride on earth.

The Lord comes down out of heaven first to earth in the flesh, to die for sins. The Lord comes again to earth, to receive His bride unto Himself, and to rule with them over the earth.

The Lord does not return to heaven from earth a second time, and then return again to earth a 3rd time.

There is no second return to heaven from earth, nor a 3rd coming to earth out of heaven.


Bride entering kingdom of God to meet Jesus in the air is now the wife...not in heaven.

Corrected enough times.

Apparently you are running out of things to repeat to yourself. Unless you have something new, I'll be moving on.

QUOTE
"There is no second return to heaven from earth, nor a 3rd coming to earth out of heaven."

Rev 14: 14.
None of you postribbers dare go there.
It is way too painful.
Just keep convincing yourself Jesus does not gather sitting on a cloud holding a sickle DURING THE TRIB.

Tell yourself it is a mistake.

 

[Psalm1]

Rev 14's GATHERING BY JESUS, in verse 14, is Before the wrath.

Atg QUOTE
"Correct. The harvest of His church from the earth, while He is in the air with clouds, is before His wrath upon the wicked remaining on the earth"

Reread it.
But keep the context.
144,000 FIRSTFRUITS Jews precede the main harvest Jews....DURING THE TRIB.
Then try hard not to change it.
SMH

You guys simply have NO IDEA what the rapture is.
I have a question for postribbers.
What is the rapture?
Is it words on a page?
or what ?
What exactly is the rapture of the church?
What is the purpose of the rapture?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

QUOTE
"There is no second return to heaven from earth, nor a 3rd coming to earth out of heaven."

Rev 14: 14.
None of you postribbers dare go there.
It is way too painful.
Just keep convincing yourself Jesus does not gather sitting on a cloud holding a sickle DURING THE TRIB.

Tell yourself it is a mistake.

Where is your pre-trib rapture then? It should be happening now right? Before the antichrist shows up?

 

[Psalm1]

Lie #2 changing teaching of others.

The resurrection a rapture of the church happens with 1 Thess 4' gathering of the church from the earth, to meet the Lord in the air.

The saints do not come out of heaven with the Lord, and then rise from their earthen graves to meet Him at His coming out of heaven.



Correct. The harvest of His church from the earth, while He is in the air with clouds, is before His wrath upon the wicked remaining on the earth.


Lie #3 changing teaching of others.

Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The angels sent by Jesus in the air, to gather the resurrected saints from the 4 winds to meet Him where He is when He comes again, is not angels gathering the church together apart from Jesus being there with clouds.

Rev 14:15
And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.


Half truth #2.

The Lord reaps His people to Himself in the air, by sending His angels to gather them together to meet Him there.

Lol
I tell you Jesus sends angels and they gather apart from Jesus.

You say it is a lie, then post A verse stating that indeed Jesus sends angels to gether elect ,and does no gathering himself.
You OK?
You seem extremely confused.

 

[Psalm1]

Where is your pre-trib rapture then? It should be happening now right? Before the antichrist shows up?

What we have here is failure to connect the dots.

 

[Psalm1]

Lie #2 changing teaching of others.

The resurrection a rapture of the church happens with 1 Thess 4' gathering of the church from the earth, to meet the Lord in the air.

The saints do not come out of heaven with the Lord, and then rise from their earthen graves to meet Him at His coming out of heaven.



Correct. The harvest of His church from the earth, while He is in the air with clouds, is before His wrath upon the wicked remaining on the earth.


Lie #3 changing teaching of others.

Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The angels sent by Jesus in the air, to gather the resurrected saints from the 4 winds to meet Him where He is when He comes again, is not angels gathering the church together apart from Jesus being there with clouds.

Rev 14:15
And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.


Half truth #2.

The Lord reaps His people to Himself in the air, by sending His angels to gather them together to meet Him there.

QUOTE
"Rev 14:15
And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.


Half truth #2.

The Lord reaps His people to Himself in the air, by sending His angels to gather them together to meet Him there."""

1) that is rev14:14.
2) you posted a verse where Jesus HIMSELF GATHERS.
Then you tell me Jesus sends angels to gather.

Ok, you just proved my point and you are oblivious to it.

You send your neighbor to get your dog from the vet.
Psssst...you did nothing to participate, and are 100% isolated from any participation.
Then, when you lie about it, you claim others are lying.
You do not understand the rapture or it's purpose.
You do not understand what "sends" Is.

I have a remedy for all that.
Either admit you are wrong, or change Matthew from " Jesus sends", to "Jesus gathers".
Your dilemma is real.
But it will continue, for sure.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

What we have here is failure to connect the dots.

Nothing you pre-tribbers say matters if it doesn't happen as you say it would.

 

[Psalm1]

Very interesting indeed. Never heard it.

It's true that the rapture is not a 'great disappearance' of Christians from the earth, and yet is a widely taught and popularized lie.

However, there are problems with your theory of the great AC using it for his own purposes:

1. The rapture does lead to the open display of the AC as God, but not to the rise of the AC.
2. It's that AC beast that is already persecuting the saints, before the Lord comes to resurrect them to Himself in the air.
3. His miracle of calling fire down from heaven to destroy His enemies, is in the sight of men. Not a disappearance from their sight.
4. And of course, since the Lord's coming and rapture of His church is in fact visible to all eyes on earth, then they can hardly be decieved about the saints disappearing from their sight.

Rev 11:11
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

5. And finally, the last great AC beast will gather his national leaders to Armageddon, to fight the Lamb and His saints in the air. They will be in seen in the air, and coming with clouds to battle.

Neither the rapture of His saints, nor their coming to fight with the beast and nations on earth, is invisible, but is visibly seen by all on earth. Therefore, no great disappearance rapture, nor the so-called secret 2nd coming of the Lord to earth, can be believed at that time.

Both the secret 2nd coming and rapture are simply false prophecies by decieved Bible readers, that has gained widescreen popularity on the earth. While in fact, writing a book with the visible facts of prophecy is much more awesome. But then, the Bible with Revelation is already written...

The real question is why should anyone want to believe the false prophecy of a hidden 2nd coming and rapture of the church.

Correct. Another question is why believe the lie, that the Lord and His resurrected saints go back to heaven, rather than remaining on earth to rule all nations for a thousand years.


Well done. 'Which were' certainly is added by translation, and not necessary, unless heaven of the heavens is confirmed in the verse. Which it is not.

This is where context is important: The heaven is opened, and the Lord is seen coming, which we know from Rev 1 is with clouds. Therefore, the sky is better when speaking of following armies and events. We can add Rev 4 where John is certainly still on earth at Patmos, when he sees heaven's door opened. Therefore, the events in Rev 4 are from earth, followed by things seen in heaven, and the events in Rev 19 are from heaven, followed by things seen in the sky.

Rev 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

'Which were' in heaven is not false, since they followed Him from heaven, but grammatically and contextually less specific.

Rev 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Rev 19:14
And the armies in the sky followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Good observation, thanks.


Well, here you have a twofold problem. First, the context of the twinkling of the eye, is the resurrection and changing of the mortal bodies to immortality on earth:

1Co 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Their ascension into the air to be gathered by angels and meet with the Lord, is not part of the twinkling event. If it were, then there certainly would be a great disappearance event: In one moment, they are on earth, and the next moment they disappear into the air...

Even as the resurrected Lord ascended from the earth in to heaven with a cloud, seen by His disciples, so shall His resurrected saints ascend from the earth into the sky, and seen by all.

Rev 11:11
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

QUOTE
"Correct. Another question is why believe the lie, that the Lord and His resurrected saints go back to heaven, rather than remaining on earth to rule all nations for a thousand years."

The bible is a lie?
Mat 25
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

1) the groom came in a pretrib setting..fact
2) only the worth virgins ( amongst the original 10 ) are taken by the groom.
( you claim angels do the gathering and Jesus not being present)
3) they are taken TO THE MARRIAGE.
(your doctrine says no)
4) THE DOOR was shut TO THE MARRIAGE.
5) Your doctrine has the bride do a uturn back to earth to a battle.
( void of any marriage or angels gathering)

So you are claiming truth to be a lie.
Sad


Jn14
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom


Mat 26
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Jesus lied about taking us to heaven?
He lied about the marriage supper being in heaven?

 

[Psalm1]

STOP? Really? I mean, anyone can accuse anyone of anything. But a personal 'command' to STOP?

It's the irrational effort of a failed argument. Just give details of overgeneralizing the Scriptures quoted, and I'll be glad to look at it.

Otherwise, I'll STOP responding to you, when you STOP posting to me.

Ok.
Been waiting for a actual defense from you.

 

[Psalm1]

Nothing you pre-tribbers say matters if it doesn't happen as you say it would.

Post for us a postrib rapture verse.
Will Await the dodge.

 

[Psalm1]

And so, we see that the bride enters into the marriage with the Lord at His second coming. The door is shut to them not prepared.

Nothing about them all then going back to heaven with the Lord to have their marriage supper.


This time you've corrected your error, that the Lord only drinks the new wine back in heaven. He drinks it new in the Father's kingdom, which is in God's kingdom coming to earth with Him, not back in heaven:

Luk 22:18
For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

Luk 11:2
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

This is your first half-correction of your errors. An unexpected, but reasonable start. Good job.

The marriage, supper, and drink will be in the kingdom of God with the Lord in the air, when He comes again to Personally establish God's kingdom on earth, as it is in heaven.

It fulfills the oldest hope of the people of kingdom, and the first prophecy of the Lord's coming with His kingdom rule on earth:

Psa 82:8
Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psa 96:13
Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

Psa 67:40
Let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

Isa 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

NT Prophecy simply shows that His coming to inherit and govern the earth, will be with His first resurrected saints, to rule with Him over the cities and nations of the earth. For a thousand years.

Psa 2:8
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers:

Rev 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

All prophecy of Scripture must not only be taken exactly at the Lord's words, but also be taken altogether, in order to see the exact whole fulfillment thereof.

Those who change, add, or take away from the words of prophecy, and/or isolate Scriptures of prophecy from each other, are teaching false prophecy of their own making and lying imagination:

Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

QUOTE
"And so, we see that the bride enters into the marriage with the Lord at His second coming. The door is shut to them not prepared.
Nothing about them all then going back to heaven with the Lord to have their marriage supper."

you reworked the analogy.

The analogy is the groom picks up the bride AFTER SHE LEAVES HER HOUSE.
Your doctrine claims she goes BACK TO HER HOUSE WITH THE GROOM.
Your "interpretation" is opposite of truth
The analogy, BY JESUS, has your deal as way way off.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Post for us a postrib rapture verse.
Will Await the dodge.

You won't care. And all God's people already know post-trib verses.

Pre-trib is suppose to happen FIRST.

So the onus is on YOU. Your pre-trib twisted verses don't matter if it doesn't happen!

 

[Psalm1]

You may wait to be part of some wicked rapture, but there won't be any such thing.

Only the righteous will be harvested from the earth, to meet Him in the air at His second coming to earth.

The postrib rapture doctrine has the gathering of mat 24 "one taken, one left, before the flood" ,as a "wicked taken, before the flood", ...and get this...the setting is pretrib.
IOW a "pretrib rapture of the wicked".
That is just one example, of the many bizarre impossibilities of a postrib rapture theory.

 

[Psalm1]

You won't care. And all God's people already know post-trib verses.

Pre-trib is suppose to happen FIRST.

So the onus is on YOU. Your pre-trib twisted verses don't matter if it doesn't happen!

That makes 5 or 8 times you have been challenged to produce a verse supporting your beliefs.
Every single time you dodge.

It is plain for all to see , your beliefs are not bible centered.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

That makes 5 or 8 times you have been challenged to produce a verse supporting your beliefs.
Every single time you dodge.

It is plain for all to see , your beliefs are not bible centered.

Pre-trib rapture is suppose to happen FIRST.

You can pretend all you want how the pre-trib rapture is in the Bible, but the only real way to prove it is that it actually happens before the antichrist is revealed.

You know the antichrist is already an adult and climbing the political ladder. So where is your pre-trib rapture?

When your pre-trib rapture doesn't happen, THEN I'll show you foolish pre-trib people Jesus' own words in the Bible about his post-trib rapture.

 

[ATG]

The secret rapture is not false doctrine!
The secret rapture will remain a secret never to be seen . So it’s true .

Well done. A secret rapture by definition must be kept secret, and so is always an unseen rapturous circle.

I like in revelation, the last Trump will sound and every eye will see him verse …

Amen. Which is what we watch for while remaining alive on earth.

 

[ATG]

The secret rapture for some is mostly a misdirection, and it's of OSAS origin. What they really want to believe is a secret first resurrection of the soul into heaven, while the body remains on earth. In this way, they convince themselves God's judgment of their works cannot apply to their own continued sinful deeds. Scripturally, with the first resurrection of the saints, the second death has no power over them:

Rev 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Just another lying wonder of people trusting in their faith-alone to justify them, and so making up justifying doctrines by their faith-alone. In this case, they end up preaching the 'unseen' first resurrection is already happened:

2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[ATG]

When the catching away of the faithful happens it won't be any secret.

The world will notice a few million people are suddenly gone.

The secret of the rapture, is that no one will see them go to meet Jesus. Which is the lie of secrecy.

Mat 6:4
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.


Collosians {3:23}
And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

The Lord will openly reward His saints with the inheritance of resurrection unto life. He will not reward His good servants secretly, as though ashamed at His coming...

The world will see the Lord coming into the air, and the resurrected saints ascending to meet Him in the air.

Rev 11:11
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The only unseen part of the first resurrection and rapture of the church, is the single moment's changing of the bodies, to instantly stand with immortal feet on earth.

 

[ATG]

The born again saints are NOW IN HEAVEN, that have died and are buried .

This is the second time correcting.

Their souls of the dead in Christ are now in the presence of the Lord. They will be reunited with their resurrected dead bodies on earth at the Lord's return. And then with them still alive and changed, will rise to meet the Lord in the air.

Their souls will not return with the Lord out of heaven, without their bodies. The armies are the spirit-bodied angels in heaven.

They unite with their resurrected bodies.

Correct. On earth, where their dead bodies are.

The first resurrection of the dead in Christ will be from the graves on earth, to meet the Lord in the air. Which will not happen until the Lord comes again to earth.

2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of som

BTW, are the souls of living believers also 'resurrected' into heaven, with their living bodies still on earth?

 

[ATG]

Whatever you are getting at,

Isolating one Scripture of prophecy from another Scripture of the same prophecy, changes Scripture into one's own false prophesy.

The scripture of the Lord's return to earth in Rev 19 says nothing of the resurrection of the saints, but other Scripture does say the resurrection of the saints is at His coming again to earth.

The Scripture of the suffering Messiah in Is 53, says nothing of the resurrection of His dead body, but other Scripture does say Jesus Christ does resurrect from the dead.

By isolation of rev 19, it's false to say the saints are not resurrected at the second coming of Christ to earth, even as it's false to say by isolating Is 53, that Jesus Christ does not resurrected from the dead.