Some thoughts on the Sabbath...

[Roger316]

forget all that civil matter stuff---
what gives Jesus Christ the legal right to put people to death? because He has and He will again.
The Torah. there is nothing else - period.

If the Torah did not demand the penalty of death for transgressing the 10 Commandments, then Jesus Christ did not need to die.

No pardons, no forgiveness no way around the penalty of death. sin and you die!!

Therefore: without the Torah, Jesus Christ would have no legal right to put a single person to death.
and the death of billions is shown in the N T and the O T, to be just ahead -- because of SIN and sin is only found in the TORAH.
Sin, physical and spiritual, is the transgression of the Torah = period.

all human life that God has taken to date, was legal because of sin, giving God the legal right to carry out the penalty of death as prescribed by and in the Torah.

Is it possible to "word" this to death certainly, that is what humans do best and why "sudden destruction" is certain.

Yahweh did not give Israel the Torah to teach all humanity about sin. Yahweh gave Israel the Torah to establish a covenantal people. Yahweh told Israel that all the other nations have their own gods. But if you agree, I will be your god, and you will be my people. They agreed to keep God's law, and as long as they obeyed his law, Yahweh would be their God.

Yahweh did not make that agreement with any other family line.

 

[Inquisitor]

the only day with a name is the Sabbath.

The word Sabbath originates from the Hebrew verb shavat (or shabbath), which literally translates to "to rest," "to stop," or "to cease."

And where did the calendar come from, Rome, gentiles
Practically every thing the christian church does and believes came from Rome and Gentiles, not the Word of God, O or N T.
who was given oversight of the O T, the Jews, who has preserved it, Jews
Who wrote the N T, Jews.

The shift from celebrating the resurrection during Passover to observing a separate Easter Sunday was formalized at the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. (roman) Church leaders established that Easter would be celebrated on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the vernal equinox, intentionally separating it from the Jewish calendar's Passover. [1, 2, 3, 4]

The First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD was convened and heavily influenced by the Roman Emperor Constantine I to establish Christian doctrine and unity,

Do you believe God the Father and Jesus Christ turned all things over to gentiles, Roman gentiles, to alter what Christ set up?
nope!

You omitted the Preparation day.

The Jewish calendar had two days with names; Preparation day and Sabbath day.

 

[memberofthebride]

God doesn't need a Law to take a life. He has the right of authorship. Just as a potter has the right to destroy a pot he created, and just as a painter has the right to destroy a painting he made, God has the right to destroy a person he created.

But God declared. After the flood event, a murderer shall suffer the death penalty. Genesis 9:4-6

Yes, but violating the 10 Commandments is a civil matter. A suspect must be tried before a Jewish court in the presence of two witnesses. Only then can the death penalty be carried out.

That was carried out within the Jewish context according to a covenant God made with Israel. The Gentiles are not obligated to obey the 10 commandments unless their nation has adopted them into their legal system.

To be clear and precise, we need to maintain the distinction between moral absolutes and moral laws. One such moral absolute is the sacredness of human life. The Bible teaches us that we are to take all measures possible to preserve and protect human life. And we should create laws to enforce such measures.

The fourth commandment contains both a moral law and a civil law. The command to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy is a moral imperative. All human beings are obligated to remember that God created the world in seven days and that he rested on the seventh day. Only the Jewish people are obligated to rest on Saturday. The Gentiles are not obligated to rest at all.

So what you are stating is God is a law unto Him self, The 10 Commandments He does not need to keep, what ever He does is right,
the commandments and Torah statutes that Christ kept to be declared sinless, were just a human thing.God is exempt.
this beginning to sound like the greek gods.
Better hope He does not change His mind about you.

What you are espousing I reject 100%. I will never follow the god you follow.

 

[memberofthebride]

Yes, it does matter because Jewish culture defines the Seventh Day of the week as Saturday. But for Gentiles, the seventh day of the week is Sunday. That is a fact of our reality.

Of course. He was living under a Jewish calendar. Gentiles today live under another calendar.

Of course there is no debate because the Jewish calendar was not established until after Mount Sinai.

This an error because the Jewish calendar didn't name the days of the week, such as Saturday or Sunday. The Jewish calendar numbered them instead, such as "day one", "day two", "day three," and etc.

But for Gentiles, the seventh day of the week is Sunday. That is a fact of our reality.

roger,
Who gave gentiles, the authority to change a day Jesus Christ, GOD, Made Holy on the last day of creation week?
and the Sabbath is not the only thing the gentiles have changed.

Not one of the apostles would recognized what is falsely called the christian church today. sunday, easter, xmas -- pagan
I fully realize none of that makes any difference to you, you are free to do what you please when you please --- until The KING of Kings returns.

have a nice day

 

[TMS]

I will always defend my beliefs that these were not for Israel only and this is the law to Israel only as a misunderstanding, and should never be taught as such.
We honor God in worship and praise in fellowship and obedience hear what the Spirit has to say. This is the part of freedom in Christ
We have.

I see Israel as a choosen people to fulfill the plan of redemption. God needed to bring the saviour into the world and choose Israel as the means to achieve this plan. He gave them wonderful insight and truth, God gave them hundreds of types and shadows that all pointed to Jesus.

Today Israel is anyone that follows the Lord. It is no longer a physical line but a Spiritual one.
Those that wrestle with God and prevail.
Like Jacob who became Israel... Gen 32:25-28.


Rom 2:25-29
.....28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It isn't about being a Jew or Gentile it is about the heart..
We are children of God when we follow our Father.
Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We are heirs in Christ.

 

[TMS]

Yes, it does matter because Jewish culture defines the Seventh Day of the week as Saturday. But for Gentiles, the seventh day of the week is Sunday. That is a fact of our reality.

Gal 3:28-29 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

All one

But you are saying there is different rules for literal Jews and different rules for literal gentiles..

Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

All one in Christ
One standard for all
It is all about the heart.

People may have changed the sabbath to Sunday but it is not because God said so.

God did not say to keep Sunday as the Sabbath.

It is a man made tradition and a sign of the rcc's authority.

"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church."
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.
—Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950

Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'
—Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

If Protestants would follow the Bible, they would worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church.
—Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

There are many more quotes and the rcc claims to have changed the day by her own Authority.

You can follow the bible or the rcc
I choose the bible.

 

[TMS]

Of course. He was living under a Jewish calendar. Gentiles today live under another calendar

I live under God's calander. Not man's.

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Acts 5:29

 

[TMS]

This an error because the Jewish calendar didn't name the days of the week, such as Saturday or Sunday. The Jewish calendar numbered them instead, such as "day one", "day two", "day three," and etc.

I said the 7th day is Saturday..

How is this error?

 

[McShawn]

The 2 great laws are a summary of all ....
On these two hang all the laws

So the 10 commandments are summarizes by these two...

Rom 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

The first 4 of the 10 commandments are about our relationship with God.
So love for God is a summary of the first 4..

The 2 great commandments do not replace the 10. They are a the principles that the 10 are based on. LOVE.
LOVE FOR GOD, AND LOVE FOR EACH OTHER.

I never said the 2 replaced the 10.

 

[McShawn]

I live under God's calander. Not man's.

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Acts 5:29

*calender

 

[Inquisitor]

I see Israel as a choosen people to fulfill the plan of redemption. God needed to bring the saviour into the world and choose Israel as the means to achieve this plan. He gave them wonderful insight and truth, God gave them hundreds of types and shadows that all pointed to Jesus.

Today Israel is anyone that follows the Lord. It is no longer a physical line but a Spiritual one.
Those that wrestle with God and prevail.
Like Jacob who became Israel... Gen 32:25-28.


Rom 2:25-29
.....28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It isn't about being a Jew or Gentile it is about the heart..
We are children of God when we follow our Father.
Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We are heirs in Christ.

When you say "sin is lawlessness" does that mean that the only definition of sin, is if it is listed in the
ten words?

 

[Gideon300]

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

"that is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus".
what in the world does that even mean?
the words of Jesus Christ I quoted are clear, understandable

not a set of rules to follow. ???

Really, tell that to Jesus Christ.
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

there are many many more like this -- obeying is required

Sure, good one. Lord Jesus told the rich young ruler that obeying the law is not enough. Also, the New Covenant of grace was not yet in force. Why can you not comprehend the truth about the New Covenant? God does not save us so that we can obey the Law that brings death. There is a new covenant with a new law - the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. You go by that law and you'll be fine. Stay under the old law, and you will have to live with the consequences of disobedience. Keep this in mind: only one person has ever obeyed God perfectly. And it's not you.

Do you know what grace is? I guess not, because you prefer to live according to the law.

 

[God-fearing]

Sure, good one. Lord Jesus told the rich young ruler that obeying the law is not enough. Also, the New Covenant of grace was not yet in force. Why can you not comprehend the truth about the New Covenant? God does not save us so that we can obey the Law that brings death. There is a new covenant with a new law - the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. You go by that law and you'll be fine. Stay under the old law, and you will have to live with the consequences of disobedience. Keep this in mind: only one person has ever obeyed God perfectly. And it's not you.

Do you know what grace is? I guess not, because you prefer to live according to the law.

Absolutely...we live in a time of grace thank God and we enter in by faith.
The law was superseded by the Lord Jesus Christ in the act of giving himself for us this is where Mercy triumph over judgment.
The law given to Israel was a perfect law to a imperfect people giving only a temporary covering. The law was never about salvation but pointed to the one who is salvation.

"Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13) means that God’s compassion and forgiveness ultimately outweigh the strict legal penalty for sin. It signifies that mercy, not condemnation, has the final word in God's judgment, as Jesus's sacrifice satisfied justice, allowing grace to prevail.

 

[McShawn]

Absolutely...we live in a time of grace thank God and we enter in by faith.
The law was superseded by the Lord Jesus Christ in the act of giving himself for us this is where Mercy triumph over judgment.
The law given to Israel was a perfect law to a imperfect people giving only a temporary covering. The law was never about salvation but pointed to the one who is salvation.

"Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13) means that God’s compassion and forgiveness ultimately outweigh the strict legal penalty for sin. It signifies that mercy, not condemnation, has the final word in God's judgment, as Jesus's sacrifice satisfied justice, allowing grace to prevail.

Amen

But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
‭‭2 Cor‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
‭‭John‬ ‭8‬:‭36‬

 

[memberofthebride]

Sure, good one. Lord Jesus told the rich young ruler that obeying the law is not enough. Also, the New Covenant of grace was not yet in force. Why can you not comprehend the truth about the New Covenant? God does not save us so that we can obey the Law that brings death. There is a new covenant with a new law - the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. You go by that law and you'll be fine. Stay under the old law, and you will have to live with the consequences of disobedience. Keep this in mind: only one person has ever obeyed God perfectly. And it's not you.

Do you know what grace is? I guess not, because you prefer to live according to the law.

I under stand "grace', it is Satan's message, "obeying is no longer required".
Grace means sin is no longer a sin,
Satan is a master at deception and lies, Christ tells us Satan has deceived the entire world.
Satan is so good at what he does, 2 billion will not believe, can not believe they have been deceived.
Who is it that refuses to obey?
Who is it that will be shut out of the Kingdom forever-- for refusing to Obey?
Paul, not Christ, "appears" to teach obeying is over --- except where he teaches the Torah is HOLY, Just and good.
No man can open eyes --- only God and that time will come when the KING of Kings is ruling on earth and Satan is put away.
So enjoy your lawlessness while you can, it will come to its' end and soon Thank God.

 

[DavidLamb]

I under stand "grace', it is Satan's message, "obeying is no longer required".
Grace means sin is no longer a sin,
Satan is a master at deception and lies, Christ tells us Satan has deceived the entire world.
Satan is so good at what he does, 2 billion will not believe, can not believe they have been deceived.
Who is it that refuses to obey?
Who is it that will be shut out of the Kingdom forever-- for refusing to Obey?
Paul, not Christ, "appears" to teach obeying is over --- except where he teaches the Torah is HOLY, Just and good.
No man can open eyes --- only God and that time will come when the KING of Kings is ruling on earth and Satan is put away.
So enjoy your lawlessness while you can, it will come to its' end and soon Thank God.

Grace is certainly not "Satan's message" nor does it mean that obeying is no longer required. Paul wrote to the church at Rome:

(Rom 6:1) What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?

However, the same apostle also wrote that we are saved by grace:

Eph_2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Eph_2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
2Ti_1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

 

[memberofthebride]

I under stand "grace', it is Satan's message, "obeying is no longer required".
Grace means sin is no longer a sin,
Satan is a master at deception and lies, Christ tells us Satan has deceived the entire world.
Satan is so good at what he does, 2 billion will not believe, can not believe they have been deceived.
Who is it that refuses to obey?
Who is it that will be shut out of the Kingdom forever-- for refusing to Obey?
Paul, not Christ, "appears" to teach obeying is over --- except where he teaches the Torah is HOLY, Just and good.
No man can open eyes --- only God and that time will come when the KING of Kings is ruling on earth and Satan is put away.
So enjoy your lawlessness while you can, it will come to its' end and soon Thank God.

one addition to the above;
the doctrine of grace is growing today as it tells those in whom the Father has NOT put His ONE Spirit, it is not necessary to obey today as without the Spirit of Power in a person, obedience is impossible.
Grace removes guilt.

 

[DavidLamb]

one addition to the above;
the doctrine of grace is growing today as it tells those in whom the Father has NOT put His ONE Spirit, it is not necessary to obey today as without the Spirit of Power in a person, obedience is impossible.
Grace removes guilt.

I start with the proviso that of course I don't know everybody in the world who believes the doctrines of grace. However, I can say that I have never hear or read anybody who believes those doctrines who says that it is not necessary to obey. We only have to think how Paul, having told the Ephesians that they had been saved by grace, says that they had been saved for good works, i.e. obedience:

(Eph 2:8) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
(Eph 2:9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
(Eph 2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[memberofthebride]

I start with the proviso that of course I don't know everybody in the world who believes the doctrines of grace. However, I can say that I have never hear or read anybody who believes those doctrines who says that it is not necessary to obey. We only have to think how Paul, having told the Ephesians that they had been saved by grace, says that they had been saved for good works, i.e. obedience:

(Eph 2:8) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
(Eph 2:9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
(Eph 2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Sir, with no disrespect

on this site, when I show by the words of Jesus Christ or an Apostle, we are to obey, that the Torah has NOT been abolished, I am told,
I do not know what I am talking about, that I do not understand "Grace".

These folks fully believe Grace eliminates the need to obey.
No Sabbath
No Commandments
No Torah

"Just believe", I guess all they think is needed, is to believe Christ exist?

 

[memberofthebride]

Sir, with no disrespect

on this site, when I show by the words of Jesus Christ or an Apostle, we are to obey, that the Torah has NOT been abolished, I am told,
I do not know what I am talking about, that I do not understand "Grace".

These folks fully believe Grace eliminates the need to obey.
No Sabbath
No Commandments
No Torah

"Just believe", I guess all they think is needed, is to believe Christ exist?

here is one response,

Sure, good one. Lord Jesus told the rich young ruler that obeying the law is not enough. Also, the New Covenant of grace was not yet in force. "thus, Christ did not know where of He speaks?"

Why can you not comprehend the truth about the New Covenant? God does not save us so that we can obey the Law that brings death. There is a new covenant with a new law - the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. You go by that law and you'll be fine. Stay under the old law, and you will have to live with the consequences of disobedience. Keep this in mind: only one person has ever obeyed God perfectly. And it's not you.

Do you know what grace is? I guess not, because you prefer to live according to the law.

the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus -- what does that mean?? here is one some other person gave me: "The law is the shadow of the reality"
confusion