When was Jesus crucified?

[memberofthebride]

The Fast of the First Born is obviously traced back to the exodus. But like most things religious it is never that simple.

Some later Jewish groups tied this fast to a celebration of the salvation of the Jews from the plot of Haman. This is because Haman advanced his plot on the thirteenth of Nisan. It appears different Jewish groups instituted different requirements for the fast. In any case it is well established that Galatian Jews began the fast with the Last Supper.

What is called the last supper was on the night of the 14th, remember night comes before day to God, darkness then comes the Light, the truth. so if they ate it on the night of the 14th the 13th ended at sundown.

Which is a strange way to begin a fast, usually a fast if from sundown to sundown, they would have eaten after sundown on the 14th.

 

[memberofthebride]

I fig John knows Jesus best.So I'll go with the offering lamb.
John explicitly states that the day Jesus died was "the day of Preparation of the Passover" (John 19:14). This means Jesus was hanging on the cross at the exact time the Passover lambs were being slaughtered in the Temple

Christ was nailed to the stake around noon and died at our 3 PM.
The afternoon daily sacrifice is at 3 PM and the Passover Lamb is slain direct after

JEWISH TIME​	ROMAN TIME​
SCHEDULE OF THE TAMID SACRIFICE​
FIRST HOUR	DAWN
The first lamb is brought out and tied to the altar at dawn Mishnah: Tamid 3:2-3:3	The priests prepare the altar [Exodus 29:38-42; Leviticus 6:1-6; Mishnah: Tamid 1:2]
THIRD HOUR	9AM
The first lamb is sacrificed at 9AM Mishnah: Tamid 3:7; Edersheim, The Temple, chapter 7, p. 108	9AM is the first hour of prayer [Acts 2:15] Temple gates open "Shacharit"(morning)
SIXTH HOUR	NOON
The second lamb is brought out and tied to the altar at noon Mishnah: Tamid 4:1	Noon is the second hour of prayer [Acts 3:1; 10:9] "Minchah" (gift-offering)

 

[biblestudent78]

I find this to be a tricky question because in the 30's 1st century there were two different calendars with two different days for the Passover that were consistently two days apart. But I will argue that Jesus was crucified on the day before the official Jewish Passover. I might also note that this allows the Last Supper to have been a Passover feast of Wednesday night, Jesus arrested Thursday morning and all the necessary back and forth with the Sanhedrin, Pilate and Antipas as well as the scourging, then has all day Thursday and into Friday morning to take place. Otherwise, you have a lot of activity crammed into a very short time with very little time to get from one place to another and people must be immediately available, which usually does not happen.

The question is not about a calendar date. The question is according to John, Jesus was crucified before the passover meal but the other gospels show Jesus alive and well and partaking of the Passover meal. The allusion to there being two different calendars is irrelevant because the calendar debate was between the Temple Jews in Jerusalem and the separatist Essene community that lived way out in the desert that had no communication with the Jews that Jesus dealt with. They despised the "city Jews" as being too liberal. The Essenes are never mentioned by name in the New Testament. While the Gospels frequently describe Jesus interacting with, or speaking out against, other prominent Jewish groups like the Pharisees and Sadducees, the secretive, ascetic Essenes do not appear in the biblical narratives.

Before the Meal: John 13:1 explicitly states that the Last Supper takes place before the Feast of the Passover. The Religious Leaders: In John 18:28, after Jesus is arrested and taken to the Roman governor’s headquarters, the Jewish leaders refuse to enter the building because they want to avoid ritual defilement so they can eat the Passover later. The Timing of the Crucifixion: In John 19:14, the day Jesus is crucified and put on trial is specifically identified as the "Preparation Day for the Passover," meaning the Passover meal had not yet occurred and the lambs had not yet been slaughtered.

I hear you rationalizations, but the question remains that in John's Gospel, Jesus never gets to eat the Passover meal with his disciples but He does in the other 3 Gospels.

 

[biblestudent78]

not that tricky

The disagreement centered around two primary practices:

• The 14th of Nisan: Christians in Asia Minor (the eastern region) celebrated Pascha on the 14th of the lunar month of Nisan, regardless of which day of the week it fell on. This aligned with the Jewish calendar and the day the Paschal lamb was historically sacrificed.
• The Following Sunday: Christians in Rome and the western regions celebrated the holiday always on the Sunday following the 14th of Nisan, to specifically observe the day of Christ's resurrection

So either a person follows the Word of God or they follow gentiles and Rome
Plus one has to disregard the only sign Christ gave that HE IS the Son of God, 3 days and 3 nights in the earth.

Fact: placed in tomb moments before sundown, after 3 - 12 hour days and 3 - 12 hour nights the resurrection had to take place moments before SUNSET -- not at sunrise!

I do not believe one thing coming out of Rome.

This question has nothing to do with Rome or Romans or Christians. This is about the time of Jesus crucifixion. This is not about how things were done anywhere but Jerusalem. "The Word of God" according to Matthew, Mark and Luke do not agree on when Jesus was crucified with the Word of God in the Gospel of John.

 

[memberofthebride]

Christ was nailed to the stake around noon and died at our 3 PM.
The afternoon daily sacrifice is at 3 PM and the Passover Lamb is slain direct after

​

JEWISH TIME​	ROMAN TIME​
SCHEDULE OF THE TAMID SACRIFICE​
FIRST HOUR	DAWN
The first lamb is brought out and tied to the altar at dawn Mishnah: Tamid 3:2-3:3	The priests prepare the altar [Exodus 29:38-42; Leviticus 6:1-6; Mishnah: Tamid 1:2]
THIRD HOUR	9AM
The first lamb is sacrificed at 9AM Mishnah: Tamid 3:7; Edersheim, The Temple, chapter 7, p. 108	9AM is the first hour of prayer [Acts 2:15] Temple gates open "Shacharit"(morning)
SIXTH HOUR	NOON
The second lamb is brought out and tied to the altar at noon Mishnah: Tamid 4:1	Noon is the second hour of prayer [Acts 3:1; 10:9] "Minchah" (gift-offering)

sorry I for got the rest of it

NINTH HOUR	3PM
The second lamb is sacrificed at 3PM Antiquities of the Jews 14.4.3 (14:65); Philo Special Laws I, XXXV (169)	3PM is the third hour of prayer; also called the hour of confession [Acts 3:1; 10:9] "Ma'ariv" (evening: our afternoon is the Jewish evening= next day began at sundown) [3 hours of prayer see Mishnah Berakhot]

 

[rewriter]

The question is not about a calendar date. The question is according to John, Jesus was crucified before the passover meal but the other gospels show Jesus alive and well and partaking of the Passover meal. The allusion to there being two different calendars is irrelevant because the calendar debate was between the Temple Jews in Jerusalem and the separatist Essene community that lived way out in the desert that had no communication with the Jews that Jesus dealt with. They despised the "city Jews" as being too liberal. The Essenes are never mentioned by name in the New Testament. While the Gospels frequently describe Jesus interacting with, or speaking out against, other prominent Jewish groups like the Pharisees and Sadducees, the secretive, ascetic Essenes do not appear in the biblical narratives.

Before the Meal: John 13:1 explicitly states that the Last Supper takes place before the Feast of the Passover. The Religious Leaders: In John 18:28, after Jesus is arrested and taken to the Roman governor’s headquarters, the Jewish leaders refuse to enter the building because they want to avoid ritual defilement so they can eat the Passover later. The Timing of the Crucifixion: In John 19:14, the day Jesus is crucified and put on trial is specifically identified as the "Preparation Day for the Passover," meaning the Passover meal had not yet occurred and the lambs had not yet been slaughtered.

I hear you rationalizations, but the question remains that in John's Gospel, Jesus never gets to eat the Passover meal with his disciples but He does in the other 3 Gospels.

You are right so long as you ignore the region where a very high percentage of the population was allied with the Essene community, that region being a place called Galilee, an area that Jesus and most, if not all, the disciples were from and where they spent a lot of time. Now if the Synoptic gospels, which imply that the Last Supper was a Passover are Galilee centric, while John was Jerusalem centric, it would make perfect sense for them to be citing two different calendars,

Sometimes it pays to know your history.

 

[Hawkeye]

Jesus knew that his hour had come. Do you interpret that to mean it happened right then?
The gospel record is that Jesus ate the Passover meal with His disciples. Why believe anything else?

He did not say that. He only said….”with desire I did desire to eat this Passover with you before my suffering”. YLT

That does not indicate He had eaten or was eating it but only that His desire was to eat it.

Passover preparation (Matthew 26:17; Mark 14:12; Luke 22:7-8); is not just cooking and eating the lamb. The location where the Feast is to be held must be thoroughly cleansed of all leaven and scrubbed entirely which the disciples would not have had enough time to do after arriving from Bethany to sitting down and eating the evening meal itself. And as mentioned before the lambs themselves would not be killed for at least another 18 hours.

The Passover lambs would be killed in the temple in the afternoon of the 14th. His statement above was made during the night time period of the 14th which preceded the afternoon of the 14th by at least 18 hours.

He and the disciples did not eat a slaughtered lamb at the Last Supper. The Passover meal would be eaten at beginning (night time) of the 15th of Nisan (Exodus 12:6-8). The Seder and the Supper were two different events and the timing becomes confusing because of the night always preceding the daytime in Hebrew reckoning (Genesis 1:3-5).

The book of John explains in the 13th chapter the Supper (verse 2) is being served prior to the Feast (verse 1) and Judas was being prompted to betray our Messiah.

Let us jump to verses 21-30.

Yeshua has now told the disciples that He would be betrayed and after giving Judas the bread told him to now do what he was going to do. Some of the group thought since Judas held the money that is why he had been told but others had been somewhat confused.

Since some thought he was going to buy things for the Feast (verse 29) the Feast had obviously not yet had been eaten and wouldn’t be for another 24 hours. The evening meal (the Supper) they had just now eaten did not include roasted lamb.

John also explains that He died on the 14th (19:31) and (verse 42) tells us that Joseph had entombed His body on the 14th as well. The lambs would be eaten soon after sunset on the 15th (Leviticus 23:4-6).

 

[Magenta]

That does not indicate He had eaten or was eating it but only that His desire was to eat it.

The Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) explicitly depict/identify the Last Supper as a Passover meal.

 

[God-fearing]

not redemption, turning against Him for 30 P

Was The garden a secret place?

 

[EddieM]

If you are able to count backwards, the day of Christ's crucifixion can be easily found in Luke 24.21. From this passage we know that Sunday was the third day. This makes Saturday the 2nd day. So, what was the 1st day? You got it!

 

[rewriter]

Was The garden a secret place?

The garden was not a secret place, but it also had no clear boundaries. It was more a term for a general region, think upstate New York for example. It was not exactly clear where it began and where it ended.

 

[memberofthebride]

He did not say that. He only said….”with desire I did desire to eat this Passover with you before my suffering”. YLT

That does not indicate He had eaten or was eating it but only that His desire was to eat it.

Passover preparation (Matthew 26:17; Mark 14:12; Luke 22:7-8); is not just cooking and eating the lamb. The location where the Feast is to be held must be thoroughly cleansed of all leaven and scrubbed entirely which the disciples would not have had enough time to do after arriving from Bethany to sitting down and eating the evening meal itself. And as mentioned before the lambs themselves would not be killed for at least another 18 hours.

The Passover lambs would be killed in the temple in the afternoon of the 14th. His statement above was made during the night time period of the 14th which preceded the afternoon of the 14th by at least 18 hours.

He and the disciples did not eat a slaughtered lamb at the Last Supper. The Passover meal would be eaten at beginning (night time) of the 15th of Nisan (Exodus 12:6-8). The Seder and the Supper were two different events and the timing becomes confusing because of the night always preceding the daytime in Hebrew reckoning (Genesis 1:3-5).

The book of John explains in the 13th chapter the Supper (verse 2) is being served prior to the Feast (verse 1) and Judas was being prompted to betray our Messiah.

Let us jump to verses 21-30.

Yeshua has now told the disciples that He would be betrayed and after giving Judas the bread told him to now do what he was going to do. Some of the group thought since Judas held the money that is why he had been told but others had been somewhat confused.

Since some thought he was going to buy things for the Feast (verse 29) the Feast had obviously not yet had been eaten and wouldn’t be for another 24 hours. The evening meal (the Supper) they had just now eaten did not include roasted lamb.

John also explains that He died on the 14th (19:31) and (verse 42) tells us that Joseph had entombed His body on the 14th as well. The lambs would be eaten soon after sunset on the 15th (Leviticus 23:4-6).

hawkeye, thank you, I have studied this Passover for years and over looked John 13: 1,2
I knew they could not have eaten a Passover lamb that night,
I takes hours to roast a whole lamb over a wood fire they did not have the time to do that.

By the way, I view what is called the last supper as the Spiritual Passover and the Passover that is eaten on the night of the 15 as the physical Passover.

The Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) explicitly depict/identify the Last Supper as a Passover meal.

It was a Passover --- but not the physical, that would have been impossible.

a 6 month old male lamb can be 80 to 140 lb, but even if they found a 1 or 2 month old it still would be 30 to 40 lb.
to roast a 30 lb whole lamb takes 4 or more hours thus they would have had to begin on the 13th which is not allowed.

"A 6-month-old lamb should generally weigh between 80 and 140 pounds live weight."

What Christ instituted is what I keep year by year on the night of the 14th -- the Spiritual Passover , eating the unleavened bread and drinking the wine. not a meal

 

[memberofthebride]

Was The garden a secret plac

Was The garden a secret place?

No, the Mount of Olives is very important in many ways, Christ returned to heaven from there and will return there at His 2nd coming.

 

[DavidLamb]

Memberofthebride wrote: "No, the Mount of Olives is very important in many ways, Christ returned to heaven from there and will return there at His 2nd coming."

My reply (sorry, for some reason when I clicked on reply, it didn't quote the post I was replying to):

Where do we read in the bible that Christ's return will be to the Mount of Olives? I know we are told that He will return in the same manner as He ascended, but I can't think of a verse that says He will return to the same place.

 

[Omegatime]

Memberofthebride wrote: "No, the Mount of Olives is very important in many ways, Christ returned to heaven from there and will return there at His 2nd coming."

My reply (sorry, for some reason when I clicked on reply, it didn't quote the post I was replying to):

Where do we read in the bible that Christ's return will be to the Mount of Olives? I know we are told that He will return in the same manner as He ascended, but I can't think of a verse that says He will return to the same place.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zech 14:4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

 

[memberofthebride]

Memberofthebride wrote: "No, the Mount of Olives is very important in many ways, Christ returned to heaven from there and will return there at His 2nd coming."

My reply (sorry, for some reason when I clicked on reply, it didn't quote the post I was replying to):

Where do we read in the bible that Christ's return will be to the Mount of Olives? I know we are told that He will return in the same manner as He ascended, but I can't think of a verse that says He will return to the same place.

Zechariah 14
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

the mount of Olives is east of the East Gate in which Christ, only, enters the Temple.

My guess as to the tree of life -- an olive tree.
olive oil is used in anointing kings and for healing

 

[memberofthebride]

Memberofthebride wrote: "No, the Mount of Olives is very important in many ways, Christ returned to heaven from there and will return there at His 2nd coming."

My reply (sorry, for some reason when I clicked on reply, it didn't quote the post I was replying to):

Where do we read in the bible that Christ's return will be to the Mount of Olives? I know we are told that He will return in the same manner as He ascended, but I can't think of a verse that says He will return to the same place.

by the way I have been to Devon, beautiful.

 

[DavidLamb]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zech 14:4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Thank you. I had forgotten that reference.

 

[DavidLamb]

Zechariah 14
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

the mount of Olives is east of the East Gate in which Christ, only, enters the Temple.

My guess as to the tree of life -- an olive tree.
olive oil is used in anointing kings and for healing

Thank you too. As I wrote in reply to Omegatime, I'd forgotten that verser.

 

[DavidLamb]

by the way I have been to Devon, beautiful.

Yes it is. I am blessed with a beautiful view over the sea from my living room window. Even in bad weather, it's a great view!