study some of the top pastors in recent decades like adrian rogers, charles stanley & michael ucef. you may get the right answer there. i'm not going to comment on this subject anymore. it's becoming "paralysis by analysis".
Can Catholics be saved?
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And of course, your church does not have a prayer list for its members where you are encouraged to pray for other members of the church who are in need. It is not exactly the same as appealing to Mary and various recognized saints, but the difference is slight, a matter of degree only.
R,
Your justification is weak. The Mormons have a stronger justification for becoming gods.
Am I supposed to believe they are going to become gods? No!
And neither do I believe that Mary can deliver my prayers to God.
The one who intercedes in my life is Jesus Christ only! ONLY! No one else. Not a crooked and devilish leader of the Catholic Church, Mormon Church, or any other church.
I am free to communicate with God myself. And he is free to communicate with me. We do not need Mary, or Peter Pan, or anyone else. And I am not special in this regard. No one needs an advocate with the Father except that advocate be Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is our Savior. No one else. We pray in the name of Jesus Christ. Not Mary, Peter Pan, etc.
I can not believe we are having this discussion. Are you five years old?
The doctrine is clear. Jesus Christ and he alone is our intercessor, advocate, etc, with the Father. So close your prayer with "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen" and not Peter Pan.
And if you want to pray for others, then please do so. But do not pray to Mary for her to deliver your prayers to God. And do not pray to Mary that she pray for you to God. Wow! That doctrine is so stupid.
Nevertheless, and I do appear rude, but the point of doctrine needs to be stressed, because it is a foundational doctrine that is being eroded with his Lucifrain dogma.
Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior. No one else.
I had to look up the definition for necromancy.
Necromancy is the practice of conjuring or communicating with the spirits of the dead, usually to seek insight into future events, uncover hidden knowledge, or influence the course of living. [1]
Thank you, D.
So, you believe that those who have PHYSICALLY died are dead? Who then was Saul speaking to in 1 Samuel 28 and why was Saul not called out for necromancy? Saul was clearly foolish, but was he properly guilty of necromancy? And if Saul was, then there was another individual who was observed chatting with physically dead people recorded in scripture.
indeed, true, praying the h.m. prayer is 2 sins: praying to a false god & necromancy. +, it's a waste of time.
R,
There are times when those who have passed over may come to visit us. However, we do not seek out those encounters, but the Lord blesses us with such. The Apostle Paul had such an encounter with Jesus, as did John.
However, when we seek other gods, and that is what Saul did, then the resulting conversation is with demons. And demons love to pretend, and may say this or that.
So if a person seeks the pretenders, then they are speaking to demons. And Saul was indeed a fool for doing so. And Lucifer has the world convinced to turn to these demons.
Isa. 19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.
Notice in the above verse that the leaders of Egypt do not seek God but seek the false gods such as idols, charmers, those who have familiar spirits, and wizards. And why? Because they, the leaders of Egypt, do not have a relationship with God. And such was the case with Saul. He did not have a relationship with God. So, he turned to false gods that pretend to be someone that they are not.
For the spiritually dead go to hell and do not come out (Rev. 19:20, Rev. 20:10). But satan remains to tempt mankind and rule the earth. But his days are numbered. And Lucifer, along with his demons, will be restrained for a thousand years (Rev. 20:1-3), and afterwards will come again to tempt mankind with these silly false gods (Rev. 20:7-10).
Be of good cheer, our Savior Jesus Christ has conquered death and will conquer his enemies soon. Those wicked charmers are enemies to God .
1Samuel, 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
This verse you referenced makes me laugh. Like, Saul or his charmer has the power to bring forth Samuel. Only a lying demon would say that. And Saul freely admits that God will not answer him. Therefore, Saul, who will not be answered by God, has truned to Lucifer's demons pretending to be Samuel.
And the whole world does that today. Because they do not have a relationship with God. Go figure.
And as for the spiritually dead who become physically dead, they go to hell and are not allowed out.
And the spiritually alive in Jesus Christ who die the physical death, they are with Jesus in paradise. (Luke 23:43)
P
passion84god
Guest
Are you claiming that Saul spoke to a demon? Because if you are then you are contradicting scripture as it clearly states that it was Samuel.
The witch at Endor knew it was not a demon. If you know your Hebrew well enough, that becomes obvious.
1) Enemies of God can not call up his holy prophets.
2) To "call up" infers that the individual called:
a) comes up from the grave
b) or from hell
c) Holy prophets when they die the mortal death go to heaven with God.
3) It is assumed in the verse, that the one called up is Samuel. That assumption is wrong as follows:
1 Sam. 28:3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.
In verse 3, the death of Samuel motivated Saul to respond to Israel and remove the familiar spirits and wizards out of the land.
1 Sam. 28:4-6 And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa. 5And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled. 6And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
In Verse 6, we are told that God
a) did not answer Saul:
b) neither by dreams
c) nor by Urim
d) nor by prophets, living in mortality or not.
1 Sam. 28:7-9 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. 8And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. 9And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
In the above verses Saul finds a woman with a familiar spirit. She is concerned for her life.
1 Sam. 28:10-13 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing. 11Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
This is so funny. The woman claims the ability to "bring up" the mortal dead.
a) spiritually dead
b) and spiritually alive
The woman tells Saul that she saw "gods ascending out of the earth." Really? I do not think that there is more than one God. And he does not ascend from out of the earth. Therefore, she is seeing demons.
R, do you think this woman is calling up God? No. She is calling up Lucifer's demons that are gods to her. One of which she claims to be Samuel.
1 Sam. 28:14-15 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. 15And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
What a joke. So the woman can see these gods who came up. And she can see Samuel who came up. And she is telling Saul what this supposed Samuel is saying. Like, Samuel was in the grave. What a crock. And like Samuel came up out of the Grave. Are you reading this nonsense? And because this story is absolute rubbish, then it is most likely a simile. I am not going to read this as a simile right now, but I may sometime in the future. So let's continue with this supposed literal story, but jumping to the end.
1 Sam. 28:24-25 And the woman had a fat calf in the house; and she hasted, and killed it, and took flour, and kneaded it, and did bake unleavened bread thereof: 25And she brought it before Saul, and before his servants; and they did eat. Then they rose up, and went away that night.
Like the woman killed the calf and all this entails. Which would have taken her hours. Then she baked the calf for Saul and his servants. And afterwards he rose up and went away in the night. The same night that Saul went to her house.
Like the woman dressed the calf by candlelight, in the house. I can not help but laugh. This story is not literal and appears to be a simile. I have a friend who can read similes very well, and I will ask him to take a look at this.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention; however, this story is not literal.
J
JamesTheLesserLesser
Guest
I'll give you an answer that I think everyone can agree on regarding your interest in changing traditions.
Ask God, who is the authority of your life, who is the Creator of everything, and is the source of all wisdom, to lead you. Pray and ask Him for wisdom and guidance. Ask the Holy Spirit to direct your path. Make it the main goal of your life to grow closer to God and to know Him more, and to pray more, and to trust Him more. Read Holy Scripture more, and learn to love your neighbor more. At some point during this process, you'll find the answer you are looking for.
And you are expert enough to know when the Bible is being literal and when it is not? The Bible includes details you choose to ignore or twist because they do not fit your preconceptions. Elohim can be translated multiple ways, Yahweh is sometimes referenced as "Elohim", there are places where most people see humans referred to as "Elohim", and there are places where multiple deities are referred to as "Elohim".
But the key is that if she had a "familiar spirit", she would know the difference and not have seen Samuel and "cried out with a loud voice", she did not see what she expected.
She said that she saw gods. Who do you think those gods were? Mormons perhaps?
She also was surprised, she fed Saul, she KNEW what demons were.
If you would go to a psychic you would expect to pay them a fee for a set period of time with them, You would not expect them to be surprised at what entity shows up, and you definitely would not expect them, to provide an expensive feast for you. Her reaction is way out of line unless she encountered something or someone she did not expect, and an entity far closer to divine, like a true prophet, would fit.
If you would go to a psychic you would expect to pay them a fee for a set period of time with them, You would not expect them to be surprised at what entity shows up, and you definitely would not expect them, to provide an expensive feast for you. Her reaction is way out of line unless she encountered something or someone she did not expect, and an entity far closer to divine, like a true prophet, would fit.
tell us how you got the bible without the authority of Christ in His apostolic church?
or provide a means to arrive at the canon of scripture without the apostolic church?
the canon was aporoved at the council of rome 381-2 by the pope and apostolic church!
so you can't believe it!
the new testament is authorized by the pagans so don't believe it!
where does scripture say we have the authority read or study scripture and decide doctrine for ourselves or to decide what constitutes the christian faith? The christian faith is revealed eph 4:5 jude 1:3 by Christ and commanded to be taught! mt 28:19
Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:1-8
Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)
The Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth (Jn 16:13) they must teach us! (Matt 28:19)
Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
matt 16:18-19
matt 18:17-18
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 2:42
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Phil 4:9
1 tim 3:15
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…
thks
btw apart from the apostolic church how do you what is and what is not scripture?
I am well versed and seasoned in scripture and don't see where anyone has authority to have a reformation (revolt) or invent 5 new doctrines, the church and the truth are of divine origin and are irreformable and immutable!
thks
the pagans prayed: so christians cannot!
the pagans worship: so christians cannot!
thks
yet you actually believe 95 percent of Catholic Dogma even though you don't know what it is!
they are short concise statements that all Christians are bound to believe
255 DOGMA's Catholic and Divine Faith revealed by Christ and taught by His command! matt 28:19:20
"the faith of the apostles" acts 2:42
Dogma / De Fide or “thee faith” (found 31 times in the New Testament) eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
Truths revealed by Christ, taught by His apostolic church! (Matt 28:19)
(The rule of faith)
The faith that is binding on all Christians! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18
Christ and His church are one and teach one truth faith! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 / Jn 8:12 - Matt 5:14
Matt 17:5 - acts 3:22 Matt 18:18
Truth: Jn 14:6 - 1 Tim 3:15
Most people who oppose dogma actually believe in most of the 255 dogma’s.
Example: #12 there is only one God
thks