Was Mary Sinless?

[faithhopecharity101]

A bold statement. Show us where Peter, John or Paul taught it in the scriptures, or any first or second century saint taught it.

all of the dogma's of Mary are found in Luke one!

where does Paul teach the assension of Jesus into heaven?

the rule of faith for christians is not scripture alone!

it must be revealed by Christ (eph 4:5 & Jude 1:3) and taught by His apostolic church. (mt 28:19, in union with Christ (mt 28:20 eph 5:24)

the dogmas and decree's of apostolic councils are binding on all Christians. (mt 16:18-19 & 18:18)

we can start with Mary mother of God: Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

showing that Mary is also the ark of the new covenant!

There is a direct parallel between the mosaic covenant and the new, between the original ark and Mary most holy!


Ex 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


2 Sam 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the Lord of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims.

Lk 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;


2 Sam 6:3 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart.

4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark.

5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.

2 Sam 6:16 And as the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord;

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:


2 Sam 6:9 And David was afraid of the Lord that day, and said, How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?

Lk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?


2 Sam 6:11 And the ark of the Lord continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months: and the Lord blessed Obededom, and all his household.

Lk 1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.


2 Sam 6:12 And it was told king David, saying, The Lord hath blessed the house of Obededom, and all that pertaineth unto him, because of the ark of God. So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obededom into the city of David with gladness.

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied…



Ark of the old covenant!

1) dwelling place of God.

2) Consecrated to God alone, incorruptible, pure gold.

3) The Spirit over shadowed the mercy seat.

4) The salvation prepared by God.

5) The Ark was the center of the power of God.

And they of Bethshemesh were reaping their wheat harvest in the valley: and they lifted up their eyes, and saw the ark, and rejoiced to see it. 1 Sam 6:13


Mary Ark of the new covenant!

1) dwelling place of God.

2) Consecrated to God alone, incorruptible, immaculate purity & charity.

3) The Spirit over shadowed Mary most holy. (Lk 1:35)

4) The salvation prepared by God in Mary. (Lk 2:30-31)

5) Mary the new covenant Ark is the center of the power of God.

We do the very same in the new covenant with Mary the center of God's power and the ark of the new covenant!

We look upon Mary and rejoice in God's power and salvation!

God prepared "our salvation" in Mary the ark of the new covenant!
Lk 1:49 Lk 2:30:32

Amen?

 

[TruthDefender]

“I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary.” Zwingli

"God has formed the soul & body of the virgin Mary full of the Holy Spirit, so that She is without all sins for She has conceived and born the Lord Jesus" Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we Believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

Note: an article of faith is required for salvation.

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

the entire christian church has always believed the dogmas of Mary with the exception of a few heretics, then beginning around 1800 came rogue preschers of fundementism rejecting everything accept the born again experience!

thks

Marian dogmas

Mary mother of God!
immaculate conception of Mary!
assumption of Mary!
Perpetual virginity of Mary!

Yes, dogma of men for sure. Not Scriptural!

 

[Genez]

Oh but he can't be corrected because he understands your every word.

Let's not listen to someone who has known you for almost 20 years, what would I know.

If Mary is the Mother of God?

Does that mean James is also God?

 

[Genez]

“I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary.” Zwingli

"God has formed the soul & body of the virgin Mary full of the Holy Spirit, so that She is without all sins for She has conceived and born the Lord Jesus" Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we Believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

Note: an article of faith is required for salvation.

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

the entire christian church has always believed the dogmas of Mary with the exception of a few heretics, then beginning around 1800 came rogue preschers of fundementism rejecting everything accept the born again experience!

thks

Marian dogmas

Mary mother of God!
immaculate conception of Mary!
assumption of Mary!
Perpetual virginity of Mary!

You're Catholic?

And, you cite Calvin as having authority?
Luther, too?

 

[passion84god]

Was Mary sinless?

No.

 

[sawdust]

all of the dogma's of Mary are found in Luke one!

no it doesn't

where does Paul teach the assension of Jesus into heaven?

Eph.4:8-10

the rule of faith for christians is not scripture alone!

Of course. A church that ended up selling salvation should be utterly trusted.

The Pharisees got into trouble because they made their traditions as equally important as the word. The Roman Catholic church should have learned from that.

God prepared "our salvation" in Mary the ark of the new covenant!

What He prepared in Mary was a body.

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

We look upon Mary and rejoice in God's power and salvation!

You do that. I'll look upon Christ who is the Gospel, the power of God unto salvation.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
Mary was a sinner in need of salvation like the rest of us.

Luke 1:46-47
46And Mary said: “My soul glorifies the Lord 47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

The Roman Catholic church has elevated Mary far beyond calling her Blessed.

 

[sawdust]

If Mary is the Mother of God?

Does that mean James is also God?

Don't be silly, he's only a cousin or some other undefined close relative.

 

[Genez]

Don't be silly, he's only a cousin or some other undefined close relative.

Which goes to show.
Spin did not begin with politics.

 

[Kroogz]

If Mary is the Mother of God?

Does that mean James is also God?

Great observation. Hopefully others will think a little deeper on this thought.

 

[sawdust]

Which goes to show.
Spin did not begin with politics.

It began in the garden (at least for humans) when the serpent "spun" his lie.

 

[TruthDefender]

Which goes to show.
Spin did not begin with politics.

They were both of the same mother. However, Jesus called them His brothers.

 

[bytheblood]

Bring your receipts if you think he said that. It's easy to make claims without evidence. Cite the actual post.

As for the rest of your post, I have already explained several times it is not RE-born but born from above. I have shown you how it is used in other places, assuming you bothered to follow the links I provided and actually look at them properly.

Death is not a birth so you can not have a dead spirit at your physical birth. You have failed to explain at any time how it is possible to have a dead spirit at birth when the human spirit can only be born of God. There is no other way to receive a spirit.

I have also explained several times how Christ spoke of earthly things before one even gets to the Gospel. You don't need "spiritual words", (whatever the heck they are anyway) to be drawn to the light. The Romans 1 degenerates understood God existed, they chose to reject that truth.

You have claimed until one is born again one cannot understand spiritual things which, I agree, but then proceed to be oblivious to your own error with statements like I bolded. Unless you are a Calvinist type who thinks one is regenerated before they believe the Gospel, you have no receiver to receive the spiritual message, whether FM or AM. One can understand right and wrong, truth or error without understanding the spiritual implications and make a positive response toward the truth because of grace.

# 1537 " Many don't understand the Bible..." then he goes on to say because of the lack of a good teacher. This is after he sang the praises of his teacher who studied 8 hrs. a day and taught 6 days a week. He didn't say " Many (of us) don't understand the Bible", leaving himself outside of us, clearly separating himself from those that don't understand the Bible. I NEVER posted that God gave us a dead spirit, I said "deadened", because of being " shapen in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psm. 51:5. As in the example I gave of the battery that could power the lights but could not start the car before being given a hot shot, so the spirit of man has enough power to receive the hot shot of the Word of God, regenerating our spirits, believe and receive it and confess Christ as Savior. The Holy Spirit then seals our spirits " In Whom you also trusted, after that you HEARD the Word of truth (drawing), the GOSPLE OF YOUR SALVATION: in Whom also after that you believed, YOU WERE SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise." After receiving Him " ...because as He is so are we in this world." 1 John 4:17, spiritually, we are like Him. " Then shall the dust(body) return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecc. 12:7. Every person has a body, every person has a spirit, this was BEFORE salvation.

 

[bytheblood]

P.S. You wouldn't share how you came to faith Sawdust?

 

[bytheblood]

I know the Bible?

Careful how you word that.

You posted " Some don't know the Bible. " You didn't post, some of us, separating yourself from the some who don't know the Bible. If you didn't mean that then maybe you should be more careful in your wording.

 

[sawdust]

# 1537 " Many don't understand the Bible..." then he goes on to say because of the lack of a good teacher. This is after he sang the praises of his teacher who studied 8 hrs. a day and taught 6 days a week. He didn't say " Many (of us) don't understand the Bible", leaving himself outside of us, clearly separating himself from those that don't understand the Bible.

Honestly? A simple statement that you perceive one way while many perceive another way. Your interpretation of things leaves one baffled at times. You claimed he said he understood the Bible where in fact it was your interpretation of what he said that came to that conclusion. Sloppy.

btw It's true, many don't understand the Bible. Prove the statement wrong.

I NEVER posted that God gave us a dead spirit, I said "deadened", because of being " shapen in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psm. 51:5. As in the example I gave of the battery that could power the lights but could not start the car before being given a hot shot, so the spirit of man has enough power to receive the hot shot of the Word of God, regenerating our spirits, believe and receive it and confess Christ as Savior.

How does that even work? God gives us an alive spirit but the moment we are conceived (which would be some split nanosecond timing in that scenario) it becomes deadened but not dead? What does that even mean, "deadened"? Semi-concious, off in some twilight zone? So even though God said the consequences of sin is death, in your world it doesn't actually mean death? Our spirits are still hanging by some miracle thread waiting for the presentation of the Gospel?

I'm wondering if I should keep giving you rope?

 

[sawdust]

P.S. You wouldn't share how you came to faith Sawdust?

My conversion is irrelevant to the conversation. We learn from the word of God, not people's experience.

 

[DavidLamb]

all of the dogma's of Mary are found in Luke one!

where does Paul teach the assension of Jesus into heaven?

the rule of faith for christians is not scripture alone!

it must be revealed by Christ (eph 4:5 & Jude 1:3) and taught by His apostolic church. (mt 28:19, in union with Christ (mt 28:20 eph 5:24)

the dogmas and decree's of apostolic councils are binding on all Christians. (mt 16:18-19 & 18:18)

we can start with Mary mother of God: Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

showing that Mary is also the ark of the new covenant!

There is a direct parallel between the mosaic covenant and the new, between the original ark and Mary most holy!


Ex 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


2 Sam 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the Lord of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims.

Lk 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;


2 Sam 6:3 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart.

4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark.

5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.

2 Sam 6:16 And as the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord;

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:


2 Sam 6:9 And David was afraid of the Lord that day, and said, How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?

Lk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?


2 Sam 6:11 And the ark of the Lord continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months: and the Lord blessed Obededom, and all his household.

Lk 1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.


2 Sam 6:12 And it was told king David, saying, The Lord hath blessed the house of Obededom, and all that pertaineth unto him, because of the ark of God. So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obededom into the city of David with gladness.

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied…



Ark of the old covenant!

1) dwelling place of God.

2) Consecrated to God alone, incorruptible, pure gold.

3) The Spirit over shadowed the mercy seat.

4) The salvation prepared by God.

5) The Ark was the center of the power of God.

And they of Bethshemesh were reaping their wheat harvest in the valley: and they lifted up their eyes, and saw the ark, and rejoiced to see it. 1 Sam 6:13


Mary Ark of the new covenant!

1) dwelling place of God.

2) Consecrated to God alone, incorruptible, immaculate purity & charity.

3) The Spirit over shadowed Mary most holy. (Lk 1:35)

4) The salvation prepared by God in Mary. (Lk 2:30-31)

5) Mary the new covenant Ark is the center of the power of God.

We do the very same in the new covenant with Mary the center of God's power and the ark of the new covenant!

We look upon Mary and rejoice in God's power and salvation!

God prepared "our salvation" in Mary the ark of the new covenant!
Lk 1:49 Lk 2:30:32

Amen?

All the dogmas of Mary are in Luke 1? Really? Where does Luke 1 mention her being sinless, being a perpetual virgin, being assumed into heaven without dying, being the ark of the new covenant? You say Luke 1:49 teaches that she is the ark. But that verse doesn't say anything about Mary. It is part of what Mary said about God:

(Luk 1:49 NKJV) For He who is mighty has done great things for me, And holy is His name.

 

[lrs68]

The Prophets like Jonah and Elijah and many others many times worried too much, disobeyed God at first, needed God to reassure them and were the most holy people but still these things were accounted as sin. Mary is no different. She like them were a mere vessel willing to do the Will of God.

 

[TruthDefender]

all of the dogma's of Mary are found in Luke one!

where does Paul teach the assension of Jesus into heaven?

the rule of faith for christians is not scripture alone!

it must be revealed by Christ (eph 4:5 & Jude 1:3) and taught by His apostolic church. (mt 28:19, in union with Christ (mt 28:20 eph 5:24)

the dogmas and decree's of apostolic councils are binding on all Christians. (mt 16:18-19 & 18:18)

we can start with Mary mother of God: Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

showing that Mary is also the ark of the new covenant!

There is a direct parallel between the mosaic covenant and the new, between the original ark and Mary most holy!


Ex 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


2 Sam 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the Lord of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims.

Lk 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;


2 Sam 6:3 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart.

4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark.

5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.

2 Sam 6:16 And as the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord;

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:


2 Sam 6:9 And David was afraid of the Lord that day, and said, How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?

Lk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?


2 Sam 6:11 And the ark of the Lord continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months: and the Lord blessed Obededom, and all his household.

Lk 1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.


2 Sam 6:12 And it was told king David, saying, The Lord hath blessed the house of Obededom, and all that pertaineth unto him, because of the ark of God. So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obededom into the city of David with gladness.

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied…



Ark of the old covenant!

1) dwelling place of God.

2) Consecrated to God alone, incorruptible, pure gold.

3) The Spirit over shadowed the mercy seat.

4) The salvation prepared by God.

5) The Ark was the center of the power of God.

And they of Bethshemesh were reaping their wheat harvest in the valley: and they lifted up their eyes, and saw the ark, and rejoiced to see it. 1 Sam 6:13


Mary Ark of the new covenant!

1) dwelling place of God.

2) Consecrated to God alone, incorruptible, immaculate purity & charity.

3) The Spirit over shadowed Mary most holy. (Lk 1:35)

4) The salvation prepared by God in Mary. (Lk 2:30-31)

5) Mary the new covenant Ark is the center of the power of God.

We do the very same in the new covenant with Mary the center of God's power and the ark of the new covenant!

We look upon Mary and rejoice in God's power and salvation!

God prepared "our salvation" in Mary the ark of the new covenant!
Lk 1:49 Lk 2:30:32

Amen?

False doctrine regarding Mary!!
Please read the warning in Rev. 22:18-19

 

[Genez]

All the dogmas of Mary are in Luke 1? Really? Where does Luke 1 mention her being sinless, being a perpetual virgin, being assumed into heaven without dying, being the ark of the new covenant? You say Luke 1:49 teaches that she is the ark. But that verse doesn't say anything about Mary. It is part of what Mary said about God:

(Luk 1:49 NKJV) For He who is mighty has done great things for me, And holy is His name.

The original Catholic Church dogmas were created primarily for the biblically ignorant, gullible, peasants.
They were not allowed nor able to read the Bible for themselves.
They just did as they were told.

But after the Reformation took place?
And Bibles were made available?...
The RCC got caught with their pants down.
Then scrambled with rationalized damage control teachings we see today used as their cover.

For example....

​

And do not address anyone on earth ‘father,’ ​

for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Mat 23:9​

​

When confronted with such an embarrassment they refuse to repent.
Instead, they began to fabricate and lie like a Democrat.
It's really all about power over others. Not about knowing truth.

We find mostly superstitious-religious people having a loyal affinity for the teachings of the RCC.
Leave them be. They do not have what it takes to take on actual truth that would transform them
and free them from the control of religious men seeking power over others.