Election by God Is According to His will, not man’s Will to believe

[Melach]

alert, this is AI slop but i chose to post it to prove compatibilism. it is evident thats what the scriptures teach

​

Proverbs 21:1​

“The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wills.”

Ezra 1:1​

“The LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus…”

Ezra 7:27​

“God put such a thing into the king’s heart.”

Nehemiah 2:12​

“What my God had put into my heart to do…”

Philippians 2:13​

“God works in you to will and to work.”

​

Acts 16:14​

“The Lord opened her heart to pay attention…”

John 6:44​

“No one can come unless the Father draws him.”

John 6:65​

“No one can come unless it is granted by the Father.”

Matthew 11:27​

“No one knows the Father except those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.”

God opens → humans respond

​

Acts 5:31​

“God exalted Him… to give repentance.”

Acts 11:18​

“God has granted repentance…”

2 Timothy 2:25​

“God may perhaps grant them repentance…”

Repentance is a human act —but a God‑given gift.

​

Acts 13:48​

“As many as were appointed to eternal life believed.”

John 10:26​

“You do not believe because you are not My sheep.”

John 6:37​

“All the Father gives Me will come to Me.”

Belief is real —but God determines who believes.

​

Exodus 4–14​

Pharaoh hardens his heart.God hardens Pharaoh’s heart.Both are true.

Deuteronomy 2:30​

“The LORD hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate.”

Joshua 11:20​

“It was the LORD who hardened their hearts…”

Romans 9:18​

“He hardens whom He wills.”

This is compatibilism in its rawest form.

​

Genesis 50:20​

“You meant evil… God meant it for good.”

Acts 2:23​

“You crucified Him… by God’s definite plan.”

Acts 4:27–28​

“They did what Your hand predestined to occur.”

Human intention = evil.God’s intention = good.Same event.

​

2 Chronicles 30:12​

“The hand of God was on Judah to give them one heart…”

Jeremiah 32:39​

“I will give them one heart and one way…”

Ezekiel 36:26–27​

“I will give you a new heart… and cause you to walk in My statutes.”

God gives the heart —humans walk in obedience.

​

Revelation 17:17​

“God put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose.”

Isaiah 10:5–7​

Assyria acts freely.God uses them as His rod.

Daniel 2:21​

“He raises up kings and removes kings.”

Proverbs 16:9​

“A man plans his way, but the LORD directs his steps.”

This is the Chronicles pattern again.

​

Psalm 37:23​

“The steps of a man are established by the LORD.”

Proverbs 20:24​

“A man’s steps are from the LORD.”

Jeremiah 10:23​

“It is not in man who walks to direct his steps.”

Humans walk.God directs.

​

Philippians 1:29​

“It has been granted to you to believe.”

Ephesians 2:8​

“Faith… is the gift of God.”

2 Peter 1:1​

“Those who have obtained faith…”

Faith is a human act —but a divine gift.

 

[Magenta]

Daniel 4 verse 35~ All the peoples of the earth are counted as nothing, and He does as He pleases with the army of heaven and the peoples of the earth. There is no one who can restrain His hand or say to Him, ‘What have You done?’ Isaiah 14 verse 24~ The LORD of Hosts has sworn: “Surely, as I have planned, so will it be; as I have purposed, so will it stand.” Psalm 139 verse 16~ Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Proverbs 16 verse 9~ In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps. Proverbs 19 verse 21~ Many are the plans in a person's heart, but it is the Lord's purpose that prevails.

 

[Magenta]

Ecclesiastes 7 verse 14 When times are good, be happy; but when times are bad, consider this: God has made the one as well as the other. Lamentations 3 verses 37-38 Who can speak and have it happen if the Lord has not decreed it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come? Job 14 verse 5 A person's days are determined; you have decreed the number of his months and have set limits he cannot exceed. Jeremiah 10 verse 23 Lord, I know that people’s lives are not their own; it is not for them to direct their steps. Psalm 33 verses 10-11 The Lord foils the plans of the nations; he thwarts the purposes of the peoples. But the plans of the Lord stand firm forever, the purposes of His heart through all generations.

 

[Magenta]

Proverbs 19 verse 21 Jeremiah 10 verse 23b ~ Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. No one who walks directs his own steps.

 

[Roger316]

Well, real danger is akin to real possibility, which becomes less as believers learn more of GW and grow spiritually toward maturity or remaining filled with the HS.

The salvation is more profound than that. The danger is real, but the outcome is assured for those who are being saved.

 

[Roger316]

Without scripture to support and exegeted correctly, using correct hermeneutics this just becomes your ideas not objective truth.

What about with scriptural support? What then?

 

[Roger316]

This interpretation is not in line with audience relevance.

How so? Where does my interpretation not agree with Peter's message?

 

[Melach]

John 5:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You will go to Hell, not because God "limited his atonement", or failed to "unconditionally elect" you, or "chose" not to "enable"
you. You will go to Hell because YOU CHOSE not to believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

do you think we believe people go to hell because of those things? people go to hell for their sins.

 

[GWH]

alert, this is AI slop but i chose to post it to prove compatibilism. it is evident thats what the scriptures teach

​

Proverbs 21:1​

Ezra 1:1​

Ezra 7:27​

Nehemiah 2:12​

Philippians 2:13​

​

Acts 16:14​

John 6:44​

John 6:65​

Matthew 11:27​

God opens → humans respond

​

Acts 5:31​

Acts 11:18​

2 Timothy 2:25​

Repentance is a human act —but a God‑given gift.

​

Acts 13:48​

John 10:26​

John 6:37​

Belief is real —but God determines who believes.

​

Exodus 4–14​

Pharaoh hardens his heart.God hardens Pharaoh’s heart.Both are true.

Deuteronomy 2:30​

Joshua 11:20​

Romans 9:18​

This is compatibilism in its rawest form.

​

Genesis 50:20​

Acts 2:23​

Acts 4:27–28​

Human intention = evil.God’s intention = good.Same event.

​

2 Chronicles 30:12​

Jeremiah 32:39​

Ezekiel 36:26–27​

God gives the heart —humans walk in obedience.

​

Revelation 17:17​

Isaiah 10:5–7​

Assyria acts freely.God uses them as His rod.

Daniel 2:21​

Proverbs 16:9​

This is the Chronicles pattern again.

​

Psalm 37:23​

Proverbs 20:24​

Jeremiah 10:23​

Humans walk.God directs.

​

Philippians 1:29​

Ephesians 2:8​

2 Peter 1:1​

Faith is a human act —but a divine gift.

If God were going to determine who believes and who does not,
a loving/just God would have determined that all would believe beginning with Satan and A&E
so no one would experience hell.

Harmonize THAT!

 

[brightfame52]

That is a very good question. A person's "name" goes way deeper than their reputation: It is their "character". The Jesus who went to the cross did it for the "JOY set before Him". He died unselfishly for ALL. And He is alive forevermore. He is "love" and He is the King of Glory. That is who I believed on.

Okay. so is He God, the Jesus you believe on with all your heart ? And what did He accomplish when He went to the Cross, and for who. Thanks

 

[brightfame52]

You will go to Hell, not because God "limited his atonement", or failed to "unconditionally elect" you, or "chose" not to "enable"
you. You will go to Hell because YOU CHOSE not to believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So not going to hell depends on what man does, is that correct ?

 

[Roger316]

I have not defined sanctification as moral improvement.

Okay, I wasn't sure. But what I said is relevant to my understanding of the New Testament. Paul refers to us as God's elect. By definition those who are God's elect are people he assigned to serve his son in the coming age, i.e they are granted eternal life to live in the kingdom of God. Ephesians 1:5

Paul
Ephesians is not talking about effectual predestination to salvation.

On the contrary, Paul explicitly says that Predestination is one of God's spiritual blessings. Ephesians 1:5

People are not elected from before the foundation of the world to be saved or damned.

That is exactly what Paul says. The elect are chosen before the foundation of the earth. Ephesians 1:4

The faithful in Christ Jesus.
So who is predestined to holiness, blamelessness, and adoption in verses 4 and 5?
The faithful in Christ Jesus.
This is further confirmed in verse 4 "For he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before him in love." He chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world. He didn't chose us to be in Christ.

In Eph 1:5, the aorist participle *proorisas* (“predestining”) follows the aorist main verb *exelexato* (“he chose”), and in Greek this pattern normally expresses **means**, not **cause**. So Paul is saying that God’s choice of us was **carried out by** His act of predestining us. Predestination is not prior motivation but the mechanism of the choosing.

He chose us who were already positionally in Christ because of our faithfulness, to be holy, blameless, and adopted.

Paul does not say God chose those who were already “in Christ” because of their faithfulness; the grammar runs the other direction. In Eph 1:4–5, the aorist participle **“predestining”** functions instrumentally, meaning God’s choice was *accomplished by* His act of predestining, not prompted by our prior condition. To say we were “already in Christ” before God chose us reverses Paul’s order. According to the text, God’s predestining is the **means** by which we come to be in Christ, and His choosing is what results in our becoming holy, blameless, and adopted—not the reward for a faithfulness we supplied beforehand.

 

[GWH]

So not going to hell depends on what man does, is that correct ?

No, going to heaven depends on cooperation with what God requires,
which is saving faith in Jesus as Messiah and Lord.

 

[brightfame52]

No, going to heaven depends on cooperation with what God requires,

Same thing, You make it depend on man. True Salvation comes from God based on Jesus Christ doing what was required, in His Perfect life of obedience and the shedding of His Blood for Gods chosen people.

You a work salvation person, doing requirements, thats a debt paid salvation

 

[Melach]

If God were going to determine who believes and who does not,
a loving/just God would have determined that all would believe beginning with Satan and A&E
so no one would experience hell.

Harmonize THAT!

sure. God wanted to show not just grace, which cannot be demanded but also righteousness and justice.

Romans 9:20-23
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 

[Melach]

No, going to heaven depends on cooperation with what God requires,
which is saving faith in Jesus as Messiah and Lord.

this is synergism right there.

 

[GWH]

Same thing, You make it depend on man. True Salvation comes from God based on Jesus Christ doing what was required, in His Perfect life of obedience and the shedding of His Blood for Gods chosen people.

You a work salvation person, doing requirements, thats a debt paid salvation

You have a lot of nerve telling God that saving faith is a meritorious work!
God initiates; sinners cooperate--or not. You, apparently not.

 

[GWH]

sure. God wanted to show not just grace, which cannot be demanded but also righteousness and justice.

Romans 9:20-23
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

29. In Romans 9:1-5 Paul notes how sad it is that those who are part of the human ancestry of Christ reject him as Messiah, but being a member of Abraham’s spiritual children is what is crucial (#17/Rom. 4).

30. Romans 9:6-13 states that God had chosen which one of Rebecca’s sons (through whom Messiah’s lineage would be traced) before they were born (cf. Mal. 1:2-3). The word translated as “hate” (miseo) is the same as in Luke 14:26 with reference to family, so a better translation would be “preferred”: loving Jacob/hating Esau refers to God preferring that Jacob’s descendants serve as the heritage for Messiah rather than to individual salvation.

31. Romans 9:14-16 stresses that s/e depends on God’s mercy rather than being achieved by human effort (#12), although the preceding context has shown that (the non-meritorious condition of) faith is involved, which truth can be stated as “God initiates; sinners cooperate—or not”, because of MFW.

32. Romans 9:17 refers to pharaoh in Exodus 9:13-35 as an example of someone whom God allowed to oppose His will so that His power might be manifested by the plagues. The OT passage indicates that pharaoh was conscious of his sin but “He and his officials hardened their hearts” (v.34b).

33. Romans 9:18 says that God “hardens whom He wants to harden”, which raises the question asked in v.19, “Why does God blame sinners who cannot resist His will?” Paul’s response (Rom. 9:20-21) is that God has the might and thus the right to determine what is right. Then he speculates (“What if”) that God might have patiently endured evildoers (#20) as evidence of His glory toward recipients of His mercy (Rom. 9:22-23).

34. In Romans 9:24-33 and 10:1-4 Paul notes that God elected to choose Gentiles with saving faith instead of Israelites who sought salvation by works and stumbled over the Gospel of Christ, even though “everyone who believes” receives righteousness or s/e.

 

[GWH]

this is synergism right there.

Also known as harmonization or interpreting Scripture with Scripture so the whole GW jibes.

 

[HeIsHere]

No, going to heaven depends on cooperation with what God requires,
which is saving faith in Jesus as Messiah and Lord.

That is what the Bible states... Believe, over and over again..... and never once does it state you will be regenerated first so that can happen.