It is time to rethink Sola Scriptura?

[GWH]

This is the greater issue, in my opinion.

The main strike against Sola Scriptura (ss), in my view, is the belief that everyone can come to the truth by just reading the scriptures. If you recall, ss arose out of the Protestant Reformation in the 1500's that ultimately rejected the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. Further on, pressure from the Age of Reason (17th century) cemented education and higher learning as the standards of man's progression. Advanced degrees and study, above most other qualities, qualified people for leadership, even leadership within the church.

The Bible actually says that a certain person has all authority in heaven and on earth (the Lord) and that that person has charged His unique delegate, the Holy Spirit, as the One who dispenses that grace to men. The pattern seen in scripture is the Lord multiplying Himself within others by the dispensation of grace and then that grace, so given, being dispensed from carriers of grace to others. Jesus had the Twelve; Paul had Titus, Timothy and others; Peter had others; John had others; etc. By this progression the Lord built the House of God in scripture. He is still building this way. Few receive it.

Yes, and IMO unification will occur to the extent Christians believe Sola Credo/the Gospel, which can be elaborated as:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey (Phil. 3:12, 1John 1:8) His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

 

[biblestudent78]

God's word isn't the problem. The problem is people who don't understand it, or don't don't take it to heart and do what it says.

I believe that virtually all 45,000 christian denomination and non-denominational church agree with you, but consider YOUR interpretations dead wrong. So saying the solution of everyone going off on their own interpretation is to do exactly more of that. Can you think of anything that might move us closer together?

 

[biblestudent78]

Actually, I have come to believe that the single destructive concept, as applied, is that what theology you believe is the single most important aspect of Christian salvation. It was a knee jerk response to corruption in the Western Catholic Church. A corruption that never happened in the Eastern Christian Church.

IMHO the single word that divides all Christianity is the word "works." Martin Luter himself wrote extensively that we are saved by Grace through Faith, but if there is no evidence or a changed life, then what you call faith is false. Jesus was clear that if you do not bear fruit, you will be cast into the fire. Paul's focus was what the evolving Churches were DOING wrong, not believing wrong. Jesus was clear that his true disciples are those that DO follow God's instructions. Not just claim you "believe them." You can believe the speed limit is 100 but the law says 55. Life itself demonstrates relying on our beliefs along are useless. If we are not changed, day by day, priority by priority, we are like the writer of Revelation said, "If you are just luke warm Christians, God will spew us out of his mouth.

Perhaps if we could all focus on living a converted, born again life we could find fellowship with millions attempting to do the same. The entire image of the converted life, one using Jesus as our model, is a life of self-sacrificial love for every human as God does. We have used our useless theological abstractions to avoid true conversion, a live of true sacrificial love and a focus on being living sermons, living water to a thirsty world. If all who call on the name of Jesus could refocus on doing the will of God vs just claiming to know the will of God through the ancient theologies we were taught, there could be vastly more unity. What we have to give up is our faith in our unique theology in exchange for faith in God's day to day leadership of our lives. If our world increasingly finds our Christianity "uninviting" and our numbers continue to plummet generation by generation, isn't it time to pay attention to who God wants us to BE......His image bearers. Healers, reconcilers, servants, lovers and obedient.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I believe that virtually all 45,000 christian denomination and non-denominational church agree with you, but consider YOUR interpretations dead wrong. So saying the solution of everyone going off on their own interpretation is to do exactly more of that. Can you think of anything that might move us closer together?

Be led of the spirit.

 

[GWH]

Be led of the spirit.

Yes, of the HS, so we will reflect divine love (Rom. 5:5, 8:9).

 

[Seeker47]

Look at Doctrines for example. There's a hundred Verses speaking about the Blessings of God and how many men of God were wealthy beyond means. But you can also present this in a way that God wants you to have abundance and use the formula we see that Blessed Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon and so forth. You can claim that from these Scriptures there should be a Doctrine called Prosperity and you actually have true Biblical proof that comes directly from Sola Scripture alone.

Is that Cherry Picking?

I fully agree, God's "prosperity" is not about wealth but it is about His abundance. The modern "Prosperity Doctrine" is really a Wealth Doctrine" which does require selective scripture.

 

[biblestudent78]

Be led of the spirit.

If unity is "being led by the Spirit" then what the heck are we doing.?

 

[biblestudent78]

I fully agree, God's "prosperity" is not about wealth but it is about His abundance. The modern "Prosperity Doctrine" is really a Wealth Doctrine" which does require selective scripture.

If you arranged 100 Christian's and 100 atheists in a room. What is your guess on how many Christians you could pick out based on their Internet activity, checkbook, business practices, ethics, service to their communities and family pathologies, could you tell the difference?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yes, of the HS, so we will reflect divine love (Rom. 5:5, 8:9).

There is an attribute of the holy spirit listed in James 3:17 translated in the KJV as "without partiality". The Greek word is ἀδιάκριτος (adiakritos).

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality (ἀδιάκριτος), and without hypocrisy. James 3:17​

In trying to figure out what this word really means (because the scholars are all over the place on its exact meaning, ie., they don't really know) I've been doing an interesting study on it. Its opposite is διακρίνω (diakrino), which also is kind of all over the place, but it conveys the idea of division

G1252 διακρίνω diakrino (d̮iy-a-kriy'-nō) v.
1. to separate thoroughly.
2. (literally and reflexively) to withdraw from.
3. (by implication) to oppose.
4. (figuratively) to discriminate.
5. (by implication) to decide.
6. (reflexively) to hesitate.

So the sense I'm getting about ἀδιάκριτος (adiakritos) is that it means a spiritual oneness that is void of divisive, judgmental thoughts, actions, ideas, etc that disrupt unity and that treats everyone with an equal love and respect. That IMO requires emptying one's self of importance in order to seek others' exaltation, well-being and edification. If everyone adopted this approach I believe we would see a lot more unity because it would be real spiritual unity.

 

[DeanM]

It's called the NEW covenant because the old was broken, at mount Sinai. Israel had sinned and broken that covenant, which God would restore, through Christ.

Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.’ ” (Lev. 27:44-45)

God didnt break His covenant. He keeps His word.

 

[Seeker47]

If you arranged 100 Christian's and 100 atheists in a room. What is your guess on how many Christians you could pick out based on their Internet activity, checkbook, business practices, ethics, service to their communities and family pathologies, could you tell the difference?

This is a trick question. Would there be a difference? Yes, a big one. A very small number of the 100 Christians will be true believers and easily identified by behavior. A few more will be believers in the making; not yet perfect but working on it. Maybe there will be some unchristian behavior but some of those are asking questions and seeking truth. They may some day change. None of the atheists will ever change.

 

[GWH]

If unity is "being led by the Spirit" then what the heck are we doing.?

What's wrong with you and me?
We are not following the leading of the Spirit perfectly of course,
but some are doing a different dance--which reminds me of the following song.
(Feel free to whistle along :^)

https://groovykerygma.bandcamp.com/track/wouldnt-it-be-fine

But the answer to your question "If you arranged 100 Christian's and 100 atheists in a room. What is your guess on how many Christians you could pick out based on their Internet activity, checkbook, business practices, ethics, service to their communities and family pathologies, could you tell the difference?" would be that you could pick out the spiritually mature and Spirit-filled Christians.

 

[GWH]

God didnt break His covenant. He keeps His word.

God is free to do whatever He wants and to speak a new word,
and we are free to ignore Him and do what we want.

 

[Lovette]

God didnt break His covenant. He keeps His word.

No he didn't, the Israelites did.

 

[Lovette]

Actually, I have come to believe that the single destructive concept, as applied, is that what theology you believe is the single most important aspect of Christian salvation. It was a knee jerk response to corruption in the Western Catholic Church. A corruption that never happened in the Eastern Christian Church.

IMHO the single word that divides all Christianity is the word "works." Martin Luter himself wrote extensively that we are saved by Grace through Faith, but if there is no evidence or a changed life, then what you call faith is false. Jesus was clear that if you do not bear fruit, you will be cast into the fire. Paul's focus was what the evolving Churches were DOING wrong, not believing wrong. Jesus was clear that his true disciples are those that DO follow God's instructions. Not just claim you "believe them." You can believe the speed limit is 100 but the law says 55. Life itself demonstrates relying on our beliefs along are useless. If we are not changed, day by day, priority by priority, we are like the writer of Revelation said, "If you are just luke warm Christians, God will spew us out of his mouth.

Perhaps if we could all focus on living a converted, born again life we could find fellowship with millions attempting to do the same. The entire image of the converted life, one using Jesus as our model, is a life of self-sacrificial love for every human as God does. We have used our useless theological abstractions to avoid true conversion, a live of true sacrificial love and a focus on being living sermons, living water to a thirsty world. If all who call on the name of Jesus could refocus on doing the will of God vs just claiming to know the will of God through the ancient theologies we were taught, there could be vastly more unity. What we have to give up is our faith in our unique theology in exchange for faith in God's day to day leadership of our lives. If our world increasingly finds our Christianity "uninviting" and our numbers continue to plummet generation by generation, isn't it time to pay attention to who God wants us to BE......His image bearers. Healers, reconcilers, servants, lovers and obedient.

Work is life, life is work; work is worship, serving man is serving God; you don't work to be saved, you work BECAUSE you're saved, is that clear? The real problem is the phony division between secular work and ecclesiastical work. As historical and biblical facts, Jesus was a craftsman, Peter was a fisherman, Paul a tentmaker, by any means, their secular work was as valuable as their ecclesiastical work.

 

[NightTwister]

I believe that virtually all 45,000 christian denomination and non-denominational church agree with you, but consider YOUR interpretations dead wrong. So saying the solution of everyone going off on their own interpretation is to do exactly more of that. Can you think of anything that might move us closer together?

There are not 45,000 denominations. Using a lie to support your argument negates anything else you say.

 

[Anchorite]

The single thing dividing Christianity is the Protestant commitment that the bible is the sole authority and is sufficient for salvation.
Estimates for deaths in Christian-on-Christian wars and inquisitions vary widely, often ranging from 6 million to over 17 million for major religious conflicts, though some older sources claim much higher, unsubstantiated numbers. The most destructive of these, such as the Thirty Years' War, caused massive population losses across Europe, predominantly involving Catholic and Protestant forces.

Today there may be as many as 45,000 denominations all of which believe that a person can read the bible and find salvation. Unfortunately, quite the opposite has proven to be the case. Many Protestant and non-denominational Christians see the vast and utter majority of all are claiming an "errant" Christianity i.e. they do not agree with our interpretations. Did Martin Luter take us all down a theological rabbit hole?

What if anything, can form a basis for the reunification of Christians?

The widely cited ~45,000 figure comes from the World Christian Database compiled by the Center for the Study of Global Christianity. This count is heavily inflated.

Country-by-Country Counting: They count global denominations in every country they exist as separate entries. For example, the Catholic Church is counted hundreds of times, rather than as a single global denomination entity.

A more accurate way to look at the diversity of Christianity is to group them by their "families" or shared theological traditions. Most scholars divide global Christianity into roughly 150 to 200 major denominational families, rather than tens of thousands of unique religions.

I would rather have a lot of denominations, than one monolithic church. Diversity gives us choices. But I wish we all had unity in our basic doctrines.

 

[Fillan]

What if anything, can form a basis for the reunification of Christians?

Hello! The issue IMHO is not sola scriptura, this is the issue as the bible foretold:

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

We are living in these days. The time the Apostle Paul foretold has come.

Many Christians seem to love their favorite celebrity preacher, however if you were to go into a Christian bookstore and get ten books on the same subject written by celebrity pastors, you'll get ten different opinions, on the same subject, quite often obfuscating what the bible clearly says.

'Every word of God is flawless', bible study is wonderful, the key to many doors.

God Bless All

 

[GWH]

There are not 45,000 denominations. Using a lie to support your argument negates anything else you say.

Yes, there is only one true faith/denomination (Eph. 4:4-6), but it is invisible/spiritual.
However, God knows His sheep.

 

[GWH]

The widely cited ~45,000 figure comes from the World Christian Database compiled by the Center for the Study of Global Christianity. This count is heavily inflated.

Country-by-Country Counting: They count global denominations in every country they exist as separate entries. For example, the Catholic Church is counted hundreds of times, rather than as a single global denomination entity.

A more accurate way to look at the diversity of Christianity is to group them by their "families" or shared theological traditions. Most scholars divide global Christianity into roughly 150 to 200 major denominational families, rather than tens of thousands of unique religions.

I would rather have a lot of denominations, than one monolithic church. Diversity gives us choices. But I wish we all had unity in our basic doctrines.

Amen. And the most accurate way of analyzing Christianity is that there is only one group per Eph. 4:4-6 and Rom. 8:9.