How long have you been single?

[Lovette]

Uh, no. Paul having been married while a Pharisee would not make him a hypocrite.

As a Christian he could have been a widower, though. So I agree he could have been married at some point.

No he couldn't. "Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed," do you believe he meant it or not? Had he ever been married, under any circumstance, and unmarried in 1 Cor. 7, that would make himself loosed and thus a hypocrite, which he himself condemned.

And as a matter of historic fact, HE was the one who was imprisoned and ultimately martyred, and you're assuming he's a widower, with a dead wife?

 

[Snackersmom]

See, "go find a wife", as though there is one readily available for you at the right moment and place with a right price, as though you're entitled to one, God owes you one - or a husband, for that matter. Now who's really making things up, me or anybody who makes up this "wife' figure, as though this is THE telos, THE absolute meaning and fulfillment of life? You know, man shall not live by bread alone, don't you think man shall not live by libido alone too?

I understand your strawman argument and I actually do largely agree with you there.

But my question was: "WHEN DID I, PERSONALLY EVER TELL YOU TO GO SEEK A WIFE?" You never answered that.... are we doing that fun thing where you start accusing people of things they didn't say? Awwwww, I must be the lucky 10 th caller!

No, he forbode that. "A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband." And if anybody departed, it was Paul who departed for his missionary journeys, from such a "wife" who only exists in your assumption.

Just because he forbade it doesn't mean she wouldn't do it, not everyone keeps their wives locked in a cellar when they are out of town .

And I assumed nothing. I merely presented 2 possibilities you failed to recognize. You ignored one because you couldn't think up a plausible argument, and made up a weird rule to argue with the other one. But hey, we were all expecting that....

Anyways, it's been fun.... not worth my time to keep arguing. But you're still unapologetically Lovette lol.

Best!

 

[Magenta]

No he couldn't. "Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed," do you believe he meant it or not? Had he ever been married, under any circumstance, and unmarried in 1 Cor. 7, that would make himself loosed and thus a hypocrite, which he himself condemned.

And as a matter of historic fact, HE was the one who was imprisoned and ultimately martyred, and you're assuming he's a widower, with a dead wife?

How would his wife DYING be him seeking to be loosed, and thus a hypocrite???

 

[Lovette]

I understand your strawman argument and I actually do largely agree with you there.

But my question was: "WHEN DID I, PERSONALLY EVER TELL YOU TO GO SEEK A WIFE?" You never answered that.... are we doing that fun thing where you start accusing people of things they didn't say? Awwwww, I must be the lucky 10 th caller!



Just because he forbade it doesn't mean she wouldn't do it, not everyone keeps their wives locked in a cellar when they are out of town .

And I assumed nothing. I merely presented 2 possibilities you failed to recognize. You ignored one because you couldn't think up a plausible argument, and made up a weird rule to argue with the other one. But hey, we were all expecting that....

Anyways, it's been fun.... not worth my time to keep arguing. But you're still unapologetically Lovette lol.

Best!

If I leave you with the impression of bitterness and antimarriage, then I'm sorry, for I assure you, I really believe that marriage in God's original design was a blessing, but maybe for another time and another place, not with the present distress of student loans, credit debts, rising cost of living, the hostility between men and women, and the damn dating apps that have actually made dating harder. Imagine you lived through 1930s great depression, rise of tyrannies and than 1940s WWII, in stark contrast to the 1910s social reforms and 1920s jazz and glamors, you;d reach the same conclusion.

 

[Lovette]

How would his wife DYING be him seeking to be loosed, and thus a hypocrite???

How would he have such a wife in the first place, considering he was a YOUNG man, at the end of Acts 7, and all his zeal was for Judaism? In all likelihood, he didn't seem to ever have been married.

 

[Snackersmom]

If I leave you with the impression of bitterness and antimarriage, then I'm sorry, for I assure you, I really believe that marriage in God's original design was a blessing, but maybe for another time and another place, not with the present distress of student loans, credit debts, rising cost of living, the hostility between men and women, and the damn dating apps that have actually made dating harder.

I think you are leaving everyone on the whole dang site with the impression that you are bitter and anti-marriage lol . I'm glad you finally recognized that God designed it as a blessing .

Truly, I have no problem with your singleness. Based off your interactions here, I really think you've made the right choice. I applaud your willingness to accept it

 

[Lovette]

I think you are leaving everyone on the whole dang site with the impression that you are bitter and anti-marriage lol . I'm glad you finally recognized that God designed it as a blessing .

Truly, I have no problem with your singleness. Based off your interactions here, I really think you've made the right choice. I applaud your willingness to accept it

Maybe it's hard for you to see and realize, but there's a blurred line between "blessing" and "idol". It is dangerous to follow such a false gospel of "relational" or "sexual" prosperity, this utterly false narrative which naively assumes that God will reward your faith with happy marriage, singleness is just a preparing stage for happy marriage. If you don't get it, it must be your fault, you don't have enough faith, you must be promiscuous, you must have ruined your chances. That's what I'm really being bitter at. In my understanding of God, he's more of a shoulder for me to cry on, instead of a santa claus to dole out stuffs. Singleness actually reminds us of his presence and makes us rely on him more, don't you think?

 

[Magenta]

How would he have such a wife in the first place, considering he was a YOUNG man, at the end of
Acts 7, and all his zeal was for Judaism? In all likelihood, he didn't seem to ever have been married.

Saul could have been nearly 30 years old even though he's called young, what is young to you?
Your objection seems odd, since zeal for one's passion outside marriage does not preclude marriage.

I saw something you said about the 70s as if it was a great time for relationships. Did you live through that decade?

 

[Lynx]

Well, we don't know that for sure. Paul might have been married at one point. But Paul was personally content with being single. of course, not everyone is, and that's fine. Paul even conceded that. And the Bible doesn't actually say whether or not Timothy was married. It also doesn't say whether or not John the Baptist was married. There are church traditions that John the disciple was unmarried, but the Bible doesn't actually say whether or not he was.

There's also generations of church leaders who were happily married.

And I can only speak for myself, but I know plenty of happily married couples, even if there's no such thing as a perfect marriage, of course.

Although you were warned about the futility of arguing with this person, you continue. I can dig it.

Sometimes arguing is fun. My mother calls me a Philadelphia lawyer because sometimes, even though when I know the cause is hopeless, I still like to carry the argument forward just to see where it goes.

 

[Lovette]

Saul could have been nearly 30 years old even though he's called young, what is young to you?
Your objection seems odd, since zeal for one's passion outside marriage does not preclude marriage.

I saw something you said about the 70s as if it was a great time for relationships. Did you live through that decade?

While I find it odd that you guys are hellbent to make every kind of excuse to speculate on his marital status, even though Paul couldn't be clearer in 1 Cor. 7 that he was single, and divorce is not allowed. How about he himself precluded marriage, because he said so?

 

[Lovette]

Although you were warned about the futility of arguing with this person, you continue. I can dig it.

Sometimes arguing is fun. My mother calls me a Philadelphia lawyer because sometimes, even though when I know the cause is hopeless, I still like to carry the argument forward just to see where it goes.

What's truly futile is your wild speculation against God's plainly written word, it seems like you're even discrediting him by dismissing God-inspired scripture as his own opinion, just to retort. "I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; " what part of this don't you understand?

 

[Lovette]

Although you were warned about the futility of arguing with this person, you continue. I can dig it.

Sometimes arguing is fun. My mother calls me a Philadelphia lawyer because sometimes, even though when I know the cause is hopeless, I still like to carry the argument forward just to see where it goes.

Man, this adsurdity is unfamothable. Paul said it himself that he wished everyone stay single as he was, you keep speculating on a hypocritical wife; Paul was the one who departed to preach Jesus, now it's suggested that his wife departed him; Paul was arrested, imprisoned and martyred, now it's suggested that he's got a wife died before him; all scripture is inspired by God, yet when it comes to a teaching on marriage it's just his personal opinion; I take Paul's words as what it plainly states, you're accusing me of acting like a lawyer flipping facts? Cute, man, really cute.

 

[RodColeman]

Although you were warned about the futility of arguing with this person, you continue. I can dig it.

Sometimes arguing is fun. My mother calls me a Philadelphia lawyer because sometimes, even though when I know the cause is hopeless, I still like to carry the argument forward just to see where it goes.

That's exactly where I am right now, hahaha! To be honest, I am finding this a bit of fun. Otherwise I wouldn't be doing it. The journey into Lovette's mindset is fascinating simply because it's so bewildering to me.

But, yes, perhaps I'm making a mistake, haha!

 

[RodColeman]

We do know for sure that Paul couldn't have been married, there's zero possibility for him to have been married, for if he had, he'd be a hypocrite having himself condemned.

Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. (1 Cor. 7:27)

And a husband is not to divorce his wife. (1 Cor. 7:11)

If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. (1 Cor. 7:12)

Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. (Rom. 2:1-2)

As for the rest, you can accept them as devotees to God, having forsaken all to follow Christ, giving up their lives as a living sacrifice, or you can insist them as married, without any proof, obscure it in any way you want, in order to fit your narrative. I don't picture any of these saints as this "another". I can only speak for myself too, but the Scripture has spoken for them.

“A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’(Lk. 16:14-20)

Actually, all we know is that when Paul wrote his first letter to the Corinthian church, he was unmarried. The Bible never says whether Paul was married. The Bible also never says whether Paul was not married.

Now, it is is possible that Paul was married because history tells us that the Sanhedrin were required to be married. However, Paul never actually states that he was a member of the Sanhedrin.

So the answer to the question of whether or not Paul was ever married in his life is "we don't know." That's a different conclusion from claiming that there was "zero possibility" that Paul was ever married.

You write that "there's zero possibility for him to have been married, for if he had, he'd be a hypocrite having himself condemned." How would that have been hypocritical? Are you saying that Paul forbade marriage? Because he didn't.

Also, are you saying that no church leader has ever been married? Huh?

And do you interpret Luke 16 as a prohibition or warning against marrying? Well, then. That's interesting. Why didn't Paul forbid people from marrying, then?

 

[Lovette]

Actually, all we know is that when Paul wrote his first letter to the Corinthian church, he was unmarried. The Bible never says whether Paul was married. The Bible also never says whether Paul was not married.

Now, it is is possible that Paul was married because history tells us that the Sanhedrin were required to be married. However, Paul never actually states that he was a member of the Sanhedrin.

So the answer to the question of whether or not Paul was ever married in his life is "we don't know." That's a different conclusion from claiming that there was "zero possibility" that Paul was ever married.

You write that "there's zero possibility for him to have been married, for if he had, he'd be a hypocrite having himself condemned." How would that have been hypocritical? Are you saying that Paul forbade marriage? Because he didn't.

Also, are you saying that no church leader has ever been married? Huh?

And do you interpret Luke 16 as a prohibition or warning against marrying? Well, then. That's interesting. Why didn't Paul forbid people from marrying, then?

How is it not hypocritical for him to have married and departed his spouse to be single? You know he forbade divorce, and not just he's opinion, but in the name of the Lord, right? It is only possible if you discredit him a a hypocrite. I do know he was never married, because I trust him as a man of his words, a role model who led by example.

 

[RodColeman]

I assure you, never felt that way, none of my female colleagues or relatives.

See, "go find a wife", as though there is one readily available for you at the right moment and place with a right price, as though you're entitled to one, God owes you one - or a husband, for that matter. Now who's really making things up, me or anybody who makes up this "wife' figure, as though this is THE telos, THE absolute meaning and fulfillment of life? You know, man shall not live by bread alone, don't you think man shall not live by libido alone too?

Lovette, it is OK for someone to desire a wife, and it is OK for someone to pursue marriage.

I assume you're familiar with Paul's positive statements about singleness. But these are not the only statements he made. What else did Paul say?

In 1 Corinthians 7 Paul says he has no "commandment from God" about this. Paul says that he wishes that everyone was single like him ── not that God wishes it. He says that he, personally, is content with being single ── but he admits that not everyone is like that. He says that it's good to stay single, but that it's better to marry if you have strong desires. Paul "supposes" that it's better to stay single because of "the present distress," some crisis that the church in Corinth was dealing with at the time. He says you're not sinning by marrying. Paul says a widow would be happier if she stayed single, but he admits that this is just a personal opinion. Evidently, many people are not happier being single. In 1 Timothy 4:1-3 Paul also condemns people who forbid marriage. And if Paul wrote the Book of Hebrews, then he also said that marriage is a good thing.

Also, just because someone desires marriage and is pursuing it does not automatically mean that this person believes that there is a soulmate out there. It also does not automatically mean that this person believes they are "entitled" to a spouse. or that they believe that God owes them a spouse. That's quite the assumption.

If I have strong desires for anything, does that make me guilty of believing that God owes me that thing? No.

Do some people believe that a spouse is, as you put it "THE absolute meaning and fulfillment of life?" Sure, maybe. I don't believe that. I don't think any other users on this thread believe that, either. But you seem to think that everyone who desires marriage believes that. How do you know?

If I want to find a job and I take action to get that job, does that me guilty of feeling entitled?

You also mention the "utterly false narrative which naively assumes that God will reward your faith with happy marriage." As far as I can tell, nobody here on this thread believes that or is promoting it. I certainly don't believe that. You mention that you're "bitter" at this idea. I assume that this is because people in your life told you that, or implied it to you? If so, I'm sorry. However, keep in mind that, as far as I can tell, nobody on this thread has promoted this idea. When people say good things about marriage, I would try to avoid jumping to the conclusion that they believe things like "Gid will reward you with a happy marriage" or "marriage is the ultimate goal in life. That's called making an assumption.

You also mentions that "Singleness actually reminds us of [God's] presence and makes us rely on him more." Well, maybe some Christian singles feel that way, sure. But God doesn't do anything to satisfy your romantic or sexual desires, now does He? And before you respond with something like "Sex isn't all there is to life," consider the nuanced statements that Paul made in this chapter that I listed above, and the distinctions Paul makes between revelations from God and his own personal opinions.

 

[RodColeman]

What's truly futile is your wild speculation against God's plainly written word, it seems like you're even discrediting him by dismissing God-inspired scripture as his own opinion, just to retort. "I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; " what part of this don't you understand?

This is not the only thing that Paul says about singleness. What else does he say?

In 1 Corinthians 7 Paul says he has no "commandment from God" about this. Paul says that he wishes that everyone was single like him ── not that God wishes it. He says that he, personally, is content with being single ── but he admits that not everyone is like that. He says that it's good to stay single, but that it's better to marry if you have strong desires. Paul "supposes" that it's better to stay single because of "the present distress," some crisis that the church in Corinth was dealing with at the time. He says you're not sinning by marrying. Paul says a widow would be happier if she stayed single, but he admits that this is just a personal opinion. Evidently, many people are not happier being single. In 1 Timothy 4:1-3 Paul also condemns people who forbid marriage. And if Paul wrote the Book of Hebrews, then he also said that marriage is a good thing.

 

[RodColeman]

How is it not hypocritical for him to have married and departed his spouse to be single? You know he forbade divorce, and not just he's opinion, but in the name of the Lord, right? It is only possible if you discredit him a a hypocrite. I do know he was never married, because I trust him as a man of his words, a role model who led by example.

Again, all we know is that when Paul wrote his first letter to the Corinthian church, he was unmarried. The Bible never says whether Paul was ever married. The Bible also never says whether Paul was never married.

 

[Lovette]

Lovette, it is OK for someone to desire a wife, and it is OK for someone to pursue marriage.

I assume you're familiar with Paul's positive statements about singleness. But these are not the only statements he made. What else did Paul say?

In 1 Corinthians 7 Paul says he has no "commandment from God" about this. Paul says that he wishes that everyone was single like him ── not that God wishes it. He says that he, personally, is content with being single ── but he admits that not everyone is like that. He says that it's good to stay single, but that it's better to marry if you have strong desires. Paul "supposes" that it's better to stay single because of "the present distress," some crisis that the church in Corinth was dealing with at the time. He says you're not sinning by marrying. Paul says a widow would be happier if she stayed single, but he admits that this is just a personal opinion. Evidently, many people are not happier being single. In 1 Timothy 4:1-3 Paul also condemns people who forbid marriage. And if Paul wrote the Book of Hebrews, then he also said that marriage is a good thing.

Also, just because someone desires marriage and is pursuing it does not automatically mean that this person believes that there is a soulmate out there. It also does not automatically mean that this person believes they are "entitled" to a spouse. or that they believe that God owes them a spouse. That's quite the assumption.

If I have strong desires for anything, does that make me guilty of believing that God owes me that thing? No.

I ask you again, marriage with WHO? Anybody you know who also knwos you and wants to marry you? If there's no answer, or your answer is a purely hypothetical figure, then marriage is just an abstract concept to you, pursuit for marriage is simply a pursuit for the status of being married, that makes this pursuit an idol with no bearing in reality.

Do some people believe that a spouse is, as you put it "THE absolute meaning and fulfillment of life?" Sure, maybe. I don't believe that. I don't think any other users on this thread believe that, either. But you seem to think that everyone who desires marriage believes that. How do you know?

If I want to find a job and I take action to get that job, does that me guilty of feeling entitled?

You also mention the "utterly false narrative which naively assumes that God will reward your faith with happy marriage." As far as I can tell, nobody here on this thread believes that or is promoting it. I certainly don't believe that. You mention that you're "bitter" at this idea. I assume that this is because people in your life told you that, or implied it to you? If so, I'm sorry. However, keep in mind that, as far as I can tell, nobody on this thread has promoted this idea. When people say good things about marriage, I would try to avoid jumping to the conclusion that they believe things like "Gid will reward you with a happy marriage" or "marriage is the ultimate goal in life. That's called making an assumption.

You also mentions that "Singleness actually reminds us of [God's] presence and makes us rely on him more." Well, maybe some Christian singles feel that way, sure. But God doesn't do anything to satisfy your romantic or sexual desires, now does He? And before you respond with something like "Sex isn't all there is to life," consider the nuanced statements that Paul made in this chapter that I listed above, and the distinctions Paul makes between revelations from God and his own personal opinions.

You know, man proposes, God disposes. You can take any action, draw whatever plan and do whatever you want, the outcome is up to God. Yes it's ok to desire a spouse who's an imaginary figure, and it's ok to desire marriage as an abstract concept, that all looks like worldly temptations. The total futility would be go date a total stranger you know nothing about, wasting your time and money and theirs. Yes, many people are not happier being single, but I assure you, they won't be happier either going through the humilation ritual that is modern dating.

 

[Lynx]

Man, this adsurdity is unfamothable. Paul said it himself that he wished everyone stay single as he was, you keep speculating on a hypocritical wife; Paul was the one who departed to preach Jesus, now it's suggested that his wife departed him; Paul was arrested, imprisoned and martyred, now it's suggested that he's got a wife died before him; all scripture is inspired by God, yet when it comes to a teaching on marriage it's just his personal opinion; I take Paul's words as what it plainly states, you're accusing me of acting like a lawyer flipping facts? Cute, man, really cute.

You are talking to the wrong person. I did not speculate about anything considering Paul's marital status.

I don't give a flying flitter whether he was, and I fail to see why it is important to anybody else. Either possibility does not invalidate what he said, nor does it substantiate it.

If it is that important to you, or to anybody here, y'all can ask him when we get to heaven.