Reconciled to God while enemies !

[Roger316]

No where is it said. But its still true. He calleth His Sheep so they shall hear Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

His call to repent was to His Sheep and they repented, because He gave it to them Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Yes, he calls his sheep, but not in the way you imply. He tells a parable about the sower who casts his seed on the ground. His call to repent summoned all who heard his voice to repent. This kind of call is pictured in the parable of the sower.

Broadcasting seed is the simple act of a farmer walking through a field and scattering seed by hand in a wide, sweeping motion. The seed falls wherever it falls — on good soil, rocky soil, thorny patches, or hard paths — and the farmer accepts that only some of it will take root and grow. That basic process makes it a strong analogy for preaching to crowds because the preacher cannot control the condition of every heart any more than the farmer can control the condition of every patch of soil. The message is cast widely, generously, and without discrimination, trusting that some listeners will receive it deeply, some will ignore it, and some will respond only briefly. The power lies not in the precision of the throw but in the life contained within the seed itself.

 

[brightfame52]

You posted an interpretation based on a particular systematic theology. You brought that system with you. You didn't find it there.

You either take what I posted or leave it

How so?

Pay attention to yourself

Not really. Peter isn’t discussing reconciliation in 1 Peter 3:18.

Yes it is reconciliation involved

Peter’s point in 1 Peter 3:18 is not that the atonement is subjective or legal, but that Christ’s unjust suffering provides the pattern for Christian endurance. Reading legal or subjective categories into the text goes beyond what Peter is actually arguing.”

Thats your opinion, i see you as a false teacher however

I’m not trying to put words in your mouth.

Yes you are and you need to stop doing it, if that wasnt said by me then dont insinuate it in order to make yourself look good. You do it to others as well

When we examine an idea, part of honest dialogue is tracing out where that idea leads, even if those conclusions weren’t explicitly stated

I find your dialogue very dishonest, to make yourself look good

My goal is to engage with your actual position by following its implications, not to misrepresent it.

You misrepresent all the time when you are cornered

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, he calls his sheep, but not in the way you imply.

I imply He calls His Sheep and I imply they hear and follow Him

 

[brightfame52]

More on Subjective Reconciliation !

When the Apostles, having been directed by the Spirit of God and His Divine Providence, did send forth the Gospel Exhortation or Imperative in Christ's stead 2 Cor 5:20

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Understand that it was not an invitation for everyone in the world without exception, neither was it to men and women dead in trespasses and sins or in a lost state, whom they were attempting them to cooperate with God, But it was an exhortation to them that had been given Faith, to believe, to embrace and receive experientially their Atonement or reconciliation Rom 5:11

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The word atonement here is the greek word katallagē which is also translated reconciliation in 2 Cor 5:18-19


18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Also the imperative ' Be ye reconciled" in Vs 20 is aorist imperative passive, which means this exhortation was the means by which God reconciled them subjectively to Himself. Remember what Paul said of his mission to the gentiles Acts 28:18

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Notice that words to turn them Its the word epistrephō which means:


transitively

a) to turn to

1) to the worship of the true God

b) to cause to return, to bring back

And that is what the imperative " be ye reconciled to God" did, it cause a return to God, it brought them back !

Also finally Rom 5:11 Please notice in this verse by whom they received the reconciliation, it was not by their own freewill, but it was by or through Jesus Christ !

Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Christ was responsible for them receiving it experientially by Faith ! Thats because He is a Total Saviour ! 3

 

[brightfame52]

Reconciliation is the Sole Work of God !

2 Cor 5:18-19

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Listen to Paul's Gospel, His Word of Reconciliation here in our text. First lets look at Paul asserting in Vs 18, for this is a Key Gospel Truth

#1 All things are of God ! We recall when Jesus told His disciples after they having inquired of Him, who then shall be saved What was Jesus response ? Matt 19:25-26

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

So hence, all things pertaining to Salvation, Reconciliation are of God !

Yes, this Reconciliation is one of those all things possible with God. Ones being Reconciled to God is of God Himself ! And how ? By Jesus Christ, that is by His Death, His Blood for they mean the exact same thing !

Turn to Rom 5:10 where the same word for reconciled is used as in 2 Cor 5:18 !

Reconciliation consisteth in Vs 19 God not imputing [ for the ones Christ died for] their guilt of Trespasses unto them, which in itself is pardon and Justification ! Now why is that also Justification ? Because God is not charging us with sin that we deserve, which means God Justifieth us Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

That is we are acquitted by this act of Non Imputation which is Justification :

Non Imputation of sin is another way of God saying He will not lay any charges against us, which constitutes forgiveness and Justification by God before His Divine Tribunal in Heaven, even though our enemies, and the devil and our own conscience can lay charges against us !

 

[Suze]

All I know is from my own personal experience . God has preserved my life since I was a child . My dad wanted to kill me physically , my mum tried for many many years to kill me psychologically , all before I knew the Truth . Only God got me through these things , long before I picked up a Bible , He was guiding and protecting me , from my parents , from others and , from my self . All before I picked up a Bible .

 

[GWH]

All I know is from my own personal experience . God has preserved my life since I was a child . My dad wanted to kill me physically , my mum tried for many many years to kill me psychologically , all before I knew the Truth . Only God got me through these things , long before I picked up a Bible , He was guiding and protecting me , from my parents , from others and , from my self . All before I picked up a Bible .

Dang! What lousy parents! The opposite of God's Plan A for parenting per 2Tim. 1:5, 3:14-15.
How blessed I was to have Plan A parents!
Thank God you were able to overcome your Plan F beginning!

 

[brightfame52]

All I know is from my own personal experience . God has preserved my life since I was a child . My dad wanted to kill me physically , my mum tried for many many years to kill me psychologically , all before I knew the Truth . Only God got me through these things , long before I picked up a Bible , He was guiding and protecting me , from my parents , from others and , from my self . All before I picked up a Bible .

God has you under a merciful providence.

 

[brightfame52]

To be reconciled to God by His Sons Death as Per Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This means He [Christ] has made an end of our sins Dan 9:24

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The word reconciliation is kapar:

to cover, purge, make an atonement, make reconciliation, cover over with pitch

1. (Qal) to coat or cover with pitch
2. (Piel)
   
   1. to cover over, pacify, propitiate
   2. to cover over, atone for sin, make atonement for

To make an end of sins also means to make an end for the punishment of sins

All of this is couched in reconciled by His Death while enemies in Rom 5:10

 

[Suze]

Dang! What lousy parents! The opposite of God's Plan A for parenting per 2Tim. 1:5, 3:14-15.
How blessed I was to have Plan A parents!
Thank God you were able to overcome your Plan F beginning!

All glory to God , I used to b very envious of people who had nice parents but now I understand , all things work together for good....

 

[Hakawaka]

To be reconciled to God by His Sons Death as Per Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This means He [Christ] has made an end of our sins Dan 9:24

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The word reconciliation is kapar:

to cover, purge, make an atonement, make reconciliation, cover over with pitch

1. (Qal) to coat or cover with pitch
2. (Piel)
   1. to cover over, pacify, propitiate
   2. to cover over, atone for sin, make atonement for

To make an end of sins also means to make an end for the punishment of sins

All of this is couched in reconciled by His Death while enemies in Rom 5:10

Stop posting before you turn me into a calvinist. HOW can Paul say to people "we beseech you, BE YE RECONCILED" if according to Romans 5:10 we are already reconciled by Christ's death?

"Hey, you guys that are reconciled, PLEASE be reconciled!!"

 

[HeIsHere]

Stop posting before you turn me into a calvinist. HOW can Paul say to people "we beseech you, BE YE RECONCILED" if according to Romans 5:10 we are already reconciled by Christ's death?

"Hey, you guys that are reconciled, PLEASE be reconciled!!"

I just do not think one can understand TULIP unless one is willing to live within a certain level of cognitive dissonance... I also think

that is why we cannot grasp how they believe what they do.. to us with the correct view of salvation we are constantly baffled by their

interpretation.

I will say that those who adhere very closely to the full TULIP as laid out by the Westminister Confession, have very little or no cognitive dissonance, they are fine with a different god of love and hate in equal measure.

 

[brightfame52]

Stop posting before you turn me into a calvinist. HOW can Paul say to people "we beseech you, BE YE RECONCILED" if according to Romans 5:10 we are already reconciled by Christ's death?

"Hey, you guys that are reconciled, PLEASE be reconciled!!"

I believe I have already explained that They are already reconciled legally by the death of Christ and the non imputation of sin Vs19 so Paul ministry converts them to that truth. Be ye reconciled in the greek is a passive voice imperative. You know an imperative is a command right ? Well the passive voice means they are being acted upon, God through the Gospel is commanding them and turning them to believe the truth. To believe what is already true.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Be ye reconciled in the greek is a passive voice imperative. You know an imperative is a command right ? Well the passive voice means they are being acted upon, God through the Gospel is commanding them and turning them to believe the truth. To believe what is already true.

agree "be ye reconciled is a passive voice imperative"

agree "the passive voice means they are being acted upon"

agree that "God through the Gospel is commanding them"

The imperative expresses a command to the hearer to perform the action.

From https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2co/5/1/t_conc_1083020

Definition of Imperative​

​

Corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.​

In 2 Corinthians 5:20, if the hearer does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness, reconciliation between God and the hearer takes place.
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

You know an imperative is a command right ?

do you ?


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

.

 

[Roger316]

Listen to Paul's Gospel, His Word of Reconciliation here in our text.

Paul is not teaching that reconciliation is an abstract idea in the mind of God as you suggest. Paul's readers understand that reconciliation takes place when each party, in this case, God and man, gives up their grievance. A man is not reconciled to God until he repents.

Yes, this Reconciliation is one of those all things possible with God.

God is not going to repent for us. That is something we must do ourselves. Reconciliation is a relationship, not a legal status.

Turn to Rom 5:10 where the same word for reconciled is used as in 2 Cor 5:18 !

Just because the same word is used in two different places doesn't mean they refer to the same thing. Using your terms, Romans 5:10 is objective reconciliation -- the act that God performed to make reconciliation possible. In 2 Corinthians 5:18, Paul is referring to " subjective" reconciliation. This is why his appeal is "we implore you, be reconciled to God."

 

[brightfame52]

agree "be ye reconciled is a passive voice imperative"

Thats right

agree "the passive voice means they are being acted upon"

You dont say ?

The imperative expresses a command to the hearer to perform the action.

I just said that ! Its a command

In 2 Corinthians 5:20, if the hearer does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness, reconciliation between God and the hearer takes place.

No they are already saved/reconciled and regenerated

 

[brightfame52]

Paul is not teaching that reconciliation is an abstract idea in the mind of God as you suggest. Paul's readers understand that reconciliation takes place when each party, in this case, God and man, gives up their grievance. A man is not reconciled to God until he repents.

God is not going to repent for us. That is something we must do ourselves. Reconciliation is a relationship, not a legal status.

Just because the same word is used in two different places doesn't mean they refer to the same thing. Using your terms, Romans 5:10 is objective reconciliation -- the act that God performed to make reconciliation possible. In 2 Corinthians 5:18, Paul is referring to " subjective" reconciliation. This is why his appeal is "we implore you, be reconciled to God."

I been over all this already

 

[brightfame52]

, Romans 5:10 is objective reconciliation -- the act that God performed to make reconciliation possible

False, Reconciliation in Rom 5:10 is completed, you short changing it and the death of Christ by saying it was made only possible. Reconciled is aorist passive indicative. The aorist is a simple completed past tense and the indicative is a statement of fact. You are saying it isnt a statement of fact, but possible, Thats false teaching

 

[Roger316]

I been over all this already

I am responding to your recent post so if we have been over this already it is because you brought it up again. And it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

 

[brightfame52]

I am responding to your recent post so if we have been over this already it is because you brought it up again. And it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I have discussed many things in posts you probably havent even read. If you have read them, you see I have covered it. And I have more to come that testify to the truth.