Adventists, Ellen G. White, failed prophecies and scripture

[Thaddeus]

I am not an SDA member but I do understand the actual verses that came out of the mouth of Jesus. They are not ambiquous, or difficult to understand. But apparently, many have and continue to find verses that they want to interpret something different than what Jesus actually said. This is mind boggling to me. He left us with no confusion on what He desired, what He commanded and what was important TO HIM. That is ALL THAT MATTERS.

You really do not need to argue with me about this - my opinion does not matter. But you must look at what Jesus actualy has told us. If you were standing in front of Jesus, what would your response be to Him after He pointed these verses out to you?


John 14:15

“If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

John 14:21

“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.”

John 15:10

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.”

John 14:23

“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him…”

John 15:14

“You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.”

You may not be sda, but I imagine you believe 1John3:4&Rom3:20 to be true, so if you believe the law is now in the hearts and minds of believers you could have responded to what was written to you
As I have twice previously addressed John14:15 to you I won't do for a third time now
I can only imagine, our christian experiences to be very different. I got saved at the age of ten. There was no emotion at all. I did not ''feel'' any different when I responded to that altar call. But something did start to change in me, and it was profound. I became aware of my imperfections/sin in a very real way in my most inward parts, in my heart and mind. Things I could do without conscience before I got saved I could no longer do without feeling bad about them. It was a true cut off from my previous life. And this did not happen because I had firstly read of biblical law, it was instinctive.
I got angry at times and felt bad about it. I didn't love most others as I should, I felt bad about that too, and I told some fibs(as kids and adults do) I felt bad about that too. And I felt bad about much more besides. Then I reached puberty, along came impure thoughts/lust, and I felt such guilt.
But for all the new found consciousness of sin I now had instinctively, I never once had any consciousness of sin at failing to follow a saturday sabath

 

[dkontner]

It's not hard.

Acts 16:31​

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[JustThinking]

You may not be sda, but I imagine you believe 1John3:4&Rom3:20 to be true, so if you believe the law is now in the hearts and minds of believers you could have responded to what was written to you
As I have twice previously addressed John14:15 to you I won't do for a third time now
I can only imagine, our christian experiences to be very different. I got saved at the age of ten. There was no emotion at all. I did not ''feel'' any different when I responded to that altar call. But something did start to change in me, and it was profound. I became aware of my imperfections/sin in a very real way in my most inward parts, in my heart and mind. Things I could do without conscience before I got saved I could no longer do without feeling bad about them. It was a true cut off from my previous life. And this did not happen because I had firstly read of biblical law, it was instinctive.
I got angry at times and felt bad about it. I didn't love most others as I should, I felt bad about that too, and I told some fibs(as kids and adults do) I felt bad about that too. And I felt bad about much more besides. Then I reached puberty, along came impure thoughts/lust, and I felt such guilt.
But for all the new found consciousness of sin I now had instinctively, I never once had any consciousness of sin at failing to follow a saturday sabath

It is so nice to hear when one is willing to tell others they have been saved by the Lord... nothing is more important than that. But I sincerely fail to understand how your experience removes the actual comments from Jesus lips. I don't see how you would not read these verses for what they are and accept them....

 

[Thaddeus]

It is so nice to hear when one is willing to tell others they have been saved by the Lord... nothing is more important than that. But I sincerely fail to understand how your experience removes the actual comments from Jesus lips. I don't see how you would not read these verses for what they are and accept them....

If you reread our discussion previously, you will see I have twice addressed John14
:15 and explained to you it regards Jesus teaching in the gospels, and I quoted Paul to confirm it.
But rather than simply quote verses of scripture, I gave you the practical example of what happened in my life, according to the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands once I got saved

 

[JustThinking]

If you reread our discussion previously, you will see I have twice addressed John14
:15 and explained to you it regards Jesus teaching in the gospels, and I quoted Paul to confirm it.
But rather than simply quote verses of scripture, I gave you the practical example of what happened in my life, according to the core foundation upon which the new covenant stands once I got saved

I am sorry. I have always read your earlier responses during past discussions. I appreciate your actual experience with our Lord but, as I mentioned, I have recently listed 5 verses above where Jesus Himself tells us to obey His commandments - if you will please isolate on those 5 verses and offer your thoughts on why they should not be honored, I hope to understand your position. Thank you.

 

[Thaddeus]

I am sorry. I have always read your earlier responses during past discussions. I appreciate your actual experience with our Lord but, as I mentioned, I have recently listed 5 verses above where Jesus Himself tells us to obey His commandments - if you will please isolate on those 5 verses and offer your thoughts on why they should not be honored, I hope to understand your position. Thank you.

They refer to the commands Jesus is teaching the people in the gospels, as I have at least four times now told you. Jesus commands were primarily examples of loving others, hence:
If you loved someone enough, you would carry a heavy load of theirs not one mile but two
If you loved someone enough you would lend to them without expecting anything back
If you loved the poor, blind, lame and beggars enough, you would invite them home for a meal rather than friends and family
And so, what did Paul say fulfilled the law of Christ?
Carry each others burdens(love them) and so FULFILL the law of Christ Gal6:2
I have always found, people who insist you must obey the ten commandmets rarely mention Jesus teaching in the gospels

 

[JustThinking]

They refer to the commands Jesus is teaching the people in the gospels, as I have at least four times now told you. Jesus commands were primarily examples of loving others, hence:
If you loved someone enough, you would carry a heavy load of theirs not one mile but two
If you loved someone enough you would lend to them without expecting anything back
If you loved the poor, blind, lame and beggars enough, you would invite them home for a meal rather than friends and family
And so, what did Paul say fulfilled the law of Christ?
Carry each others burdens(love them) and so FULFILL the law of Christ Gal6:2
I have always found, people who insist you must obey the ten commandmets rarely mention Jesus teaching in the gospels

Thank you. I think i may understand your point, and, if so, you may be creating a separation that Jesus Himself never created.

Jesus taught love. Yes, He taught mercy, forgiveness, burden-bearing, generosity, humility, enemy-love, and care for the poor. I fully agree with that. No Christian should ignore the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels. But Jesus did not teach those things as a replacement for God’s commandments. He taught them as the true spirit and fullness of God’s commandments.

When Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments,” I do not see Him saying, “Ignore the commandments of God and only keep a few new moral examples I gave in the Gospels.” Jesus never spoke that way. In fact, when Jesus was asked about eternal life, He pointed directly to the commandments: “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and your mother” (Matthew 19:18–19). Those are not merely random love examples. They are commandments from the Ten.

When Jesus summarized the law as love for God and love for neighbor, He was not abolishing the commandments. He was showing what they mean. Love for God is why we do not take His name in vain, worship idols, or place other gods before Him. Love for neighbor is why we do not murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, or covet. Paul says the same thing. In Romans 13:8–10, Paul quotes commandments from the Ten and then says love is the fulfillment of the law. Fulfillment does not mean cancellation. It means love is the proper motive and full expression of obedience.

Galatians 6:2 also says to “bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.” I agree with that completely. But the law of Christ is not lawlessness. Christ did not come to produce a people who love others while disregarding the commandments of God. He came to write God’s law on the heart.

So, I believe we must obey Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels. But I do not believe Jesus’ teachings can be used to dismiss the commandments He Himself honored, quoted, deepened, and lived. The problem is not that I ignore Jesus’ teachings. The problem is that I do not believe Jesus’ teachings give us permission to set aside God’s commandments.

Love fulfills the law because love obeys God from the heart. Love does not murder. Love does not commit adultery. Love does not steal. Love does not lie. Love does not covet. Love does not dishonor God. So I agree that Jesus commanded us to love. But biblical love is not a substitute for obedience. Biblical love is the reason obedience becomes real.

 

[Thaddeus]

Thank you. I think i may understand your point, and, if so, you may be creating a separation that Jesus Himself never created.

Jesus taught love. Yes, He taught mercy, forgiveness, burden-bearing, generosity, humility, enemy-love, and care for the poor. I fully agree with that. No Christian should ignore the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels. But Jesus did not teach those things as a replacement for God’s commandments. He taught them as the true spirit and fullness of God’s commandments.

When Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments,” I do not see Him saying, “Ignore the commandments of God and only keep a few new moral examples I gave in the Gospels.” Jesus never spoke that way. In fact, when Jesus was asked about eternal life, He pointed directly to the commandments: “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and your mother” (Matthew 19:18–19). Those are not merely random love examples. They are commandments from the Ten.

When Jesus summarized the law as love for God and love for neighbor, He was not abolishing the commandments. He was showing what they mean. Love for God is why we do not take His name in vain, worship idols, or place other gods before Him. Love for neighbor is why we do not murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, or covet. Paul says the same thing. In Romans 13:8–10, Paul quotes commandments from the Ten and then says love is the fulfillment of the law. Fulfillment does not mean cancellation. It means love is the proper motive and full expression of obedience.

Galatians 6:2 also says to “bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.” I agree with that completely. But the law of Christ is not lawlessness. Christ did not come to produce a people who love others while disregarding the commandments of God. He came to write God’s law on the heart.

So, I believe we must obey Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels. But I do not believe Jesus’ teachings can be used to dismiss the commandments He Himself honored, quoted, deepened, and lived. The problem is not that I ignore Jesus’ teachings. The problem is that I do not believe Jesus’ teachings give us permission to set aside God’s commandments.

Love fulfills the law because love obeys God from the heart. Love does not murder. Love does not commit adultery. Love does not steal. Love does not lie. Love does not covet. Love does not dishonor God. So I agree that Jesus commanded us to love. But biblical love is not a substitute for obedience. Biblical love is the reason obedience becomes real.

Do you feel wretched when you trasnsgress the TC?
Do you weep over impure thoughts/lust/desiring anything of your neighbours whether material goods or a member of their household/telling even a little fib about another/erecting any graven image in your mind/putting anything before God in your life?
The more those things cause you sorrow, the more in earnest you are to see them not happen in your life.
I don't know you, so I am in no way referring to you here. But I have heard many stress you must obey the ten commandments and I have literally been shocked and stunned as to how casually, without conscience they can transgress them

 

[Thaddeus]

Thank you. I think i may understand your point, and, if so, you may be creating a separation that Jesus Himself never created.

Jesus taught love. Yes, He taught mercy, forgiveness, burden-bearing, generosity, humility, enemy-love, and care for the poor. I fully agree with that. No Christian should ignore the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels. But Jesus did not teach those things as a replacement for God’s commandments. He taught them as the true spirit and fullness of God’s commandments.

When Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments,” I do not see Him saying, “Ignore the commandments of God and only keep a few new moral examples I gave in the Gospels.” Jesus never spoke that way. In fact, when Jesus was asked about eternal life, He pointed directly to the commandments: “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and your mother” (Matthew 19:18–19). Those are not merely random love examples. They are commandments from the Ten.

When Jesus summarized the law as love for God and love for neighbor, He was not abolishing the commandments. He was showing what they mean. Love for God is why we do not take His name in vain, worship idols, or place other gods before Him. Love for neighbor is why we do not murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, or covet. Paul says the same thing. In Romans 13:8–10, Paul quotes commandments from the Ten and then says love is the fulfillment of the law. Fulfillment does not mean cancellation. It means love is the proper motive and full expression of obedience.

Galatians 6:2 also says to “bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.” I agree with that completely. But the law of Christ is not lawlessness. Christ did not come to produce a people who love others while disregarding the commandments of God. He came to write God’s law on the heart.

So, I believe we must obey Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels. But I do not believe Jesus’ teachings can be used to dismiss the commandments He Himself honored, quoted, deepened, and lived. The problem is not that I ignore Jesus’ teachings. The problem is that I do not believe Jesus’ teachings give us permission to set aside God’s commandments.

Love fulfills the law because love obeys God from the heart. Love does not murder. Love does not commit adultery. Love does not steal. Love does not lie. Love does not covet. Love does not dishonor God. So I agree that Jesus commanded us to love. But biblical love is not a substitute for obedience. Biblical love is the reason obedience becomes real.

As I previously told you, Matt 19 was when the old covenant was operation. I also told you in my view why Jesus did not respond to the young man's question with John3:16

When my mother, whom I dearly loved was diagnosed with terminal cancer, my wife and I went to stay with her in her bungalow. I put aside my own wants and desires for hers. Nothing was too much trouble to do for her. Taking her to see her friends, bringing them to see her, and taking her out for days to places she loved to go was pure joy for me, before the illness progressed. One evening I was standing outside my mother’s bungalow deep in thought. I was living closer to the biblical ideal than I had ever previously lived. And I did not covet what was my mothers, I did not want to steal from her, bear false witness against her, and I honoured her. Did I have to think of the Ten Commandments and strive to obey them where my mother was concerned, is that why I was in line with them? No! I never once gave any of them any thought during that time. So why was I obeying them? Because I loved my mother dearly. Love really is the fulfilment of the law(Rom13:10)

 

[JustThinking]

As I previously told you, Matt 19 was when the old covenant was operation. I also told you in my view why Jesus did not respond to the young man's question with John3:16

When my mother, whom I dearly loved was diagnosed with terminal cancer, my wife and I went to stay with her in her bungalow. I put aside my own wants and desires for hers. Nothing was too much trouble to do for her. Taking her to see her friends, bringing them to see her, and taking her out for days to places she loved to go was pure joy for me, before the illness progressed. One evening I was standing outside my mother’s bungalow deep in thought. I was living closer to the biblical ideal than I had ever previously lived. And I did not covet what was my mothers, I did not want to steal from her, bear false witness against her, and I honoured her. Did I have to think of the Ten Commandments and strive to obey them where my mother was concerned, is that why I was in line with them? No! I never once gave any of them any thought during that time. So why was I obeying them? Because I loved my mother dearly. Love really is the fulfilment of the law(Rom13:10)

That is a beautiful example, and I sincerely respect the love you showed your mother.

But I do not think your example proves that the commandments are no longer relevant. I think it proves exactly what Scripture means when it says love fulfills the law. You did not covet what belonged to your mother. You did not steal from her. You did not lie against her. You honored her. And you did not need to stand there mentally reciting the Ten Commandments in order to do those things. Why? Because love was working in your heart. I agree with that completely.

But notice what happened: your love did not lead you away from the commandments. Your love brought you into harmony with them.
That is the point. When Paul says, “Love is the fulfillment of the law” in Romans 13:10, he is not saying the law is abolished or irrelevant. In that very passage, Paul quotes commandments from the Ten: “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet.” Then he says these are summed up in love for neighbor.
So Paul’s point is not that love replaces those commandments. His point is that love is the reason a person truly keeps them.

A man who loves his wife does not need to constantly repeat, “Do not commit adultery,” in order to remain faithful. But that does not mean the commandment has disappeared. It means love has made obedience natural. A person who loves his neighbor does not need to constantly repeat, “Do not steal,” in order to respect what belongs to another. But that does not mean stealing is no longer forbidden. It means love fulfills the commandment from the heart. That is exactly what the new covenant promises: not the destruction of God’s law, but God’s law written on the heart.

So I agree with your main point: love is the fulfillment of the law. But fulfillment does not mean cancellation. Love does not abolish God’s commandments. Love causes the believer to live in harmony with them.

The issue is not whether we must walk around mechanically reciting the Ten Commandments all day. The issue is whether love gives us permission to disregard what God commanded. I do not believe it does. True love does not make God’s commandments unnecessary. True love makes obedience sincere.

 

[Thaddeus]

That is a beautiful example, and I sincerely respect the love you showed your mother.

But I do not think your example proves that the commandments are no longer relevant. I think it proves exactly what Scripture means when it says love fulfills the law. You did not covet what belonged to your mother. You did not steal from her. You did not lie against her. You honored her. And you did not need to stand there mentally reciting the Ten Commandments in order to do those things. Why? Because love was working in your heart. I agree with that completely.

But notice what happened: your love did not lead you away from the commandments. Your love brought you into harmony with them.
That is the point. When Paul says, “Love is the fulfillment of the law” in Romans 13:10, he is not saying the law is abolished or irrelevant. In that very passage, Paul quotes commandments from the Ten: “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet.” Then he says these are summed up in love for neighbor.
So Paul’s point is not that love replaces those commandments. His point is that love is the reason a person truly keeps them.

A man who loves his wife does not need to constantly repeat, “Do not commit adultery,” in order to remain faithful. But that does not mean the commandment has disappeared. It means love has made obedience natural. A person who loves his neighbor does not need to constantly repeat, “Do not steal,” in order to respect what belongs to another. But that does not mean stealing is no longer forbidden. It means love fulfills the commandment from the heart. That is exactly what the new covenant promises: not the destruction of God’s law, but God’s law written on the heart.

So I agree with your main point: love is the fulfillment of the law. But fulfillment does not mean cancellation. Love does not abolish God’s commandments. Love causes the believer to live in harmony with them.

The issue is not whether we must walk around mechanically reciting the Ten Commandments all day. The issue is whether love gives us permission to disregard what God commanded. I do not believe it does. True love does not make God’s commandments unnecessary. True love makes obedience sincere.

When did I ever write that what is written in nine of the ten commandments has been abolished?
What was written in that law is now in the hearts and minds of believers. And it has a far more powerful impact than an external law engraved in stone ever will.
It is not there as a thou shalt not, but simply in a believers mind they know God does not want them to steal, commit adultery, murder, take His name in vain, covet, lie. The words ten commandments are for the old covenant, not new.
Do I disregard for example the fact I should not lust/dwell on impure thoughts? Never! That is constantly with me in my heart and mind. In fact, I have wept bitter tears often before God in my prayer time for my imperfections on the inside. I imagine you must too, as you stress the importance of obeying ''the ten''

 

[Inquisitor]

Honestly, I do not understand why people do not accept the words that come out of the mouth of Jesus Himself but look for other verses to try and show that His words do not mean what HE SAYS! Everyone is entitled to believe what they want!

I agree that 1 John 3:22–24 is very clear — but it does not prove what you are claiming.

John does say:

“This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another.”​

But notice the passage does not begin by saying there is only one commandment. It says:

“because we keep His commandments”​

​

“The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him”​

So John uses the plural first: commandments. Then he gives the central summary of Christian obedience: faith in Christ and love for one another. That is very similar to Jesus saying the whole law hangs on loving God and loving neighbor. That does not mean “do not murder,” “do not commit adultery,” “do not steal,” or “do not covet” disappear. It means true obedience is now centered in Christ and expressed through love.


Also, “not under the law” does not mean “not obligated to obey God’s moral commandments.” Paul himself says:

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” Romans 3:31​

And again:

“For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet… is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” Romans 13:9​

Paul does not say love replaces those commandments. He says love fulfills them.

So John says we are to believe in Christ and love one another. But that is not an argument against the Ten Commandments. It is the spiritual foundation by which God’s commandments are now kept in Christ — not as a means of earning salvation, and not under the old covenant condemnation, but as the fruit of abiding in Him.

If “love one another” means we may now ignore God’s commandments, then love has been emptied of its biblical meaning. John himself says:

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.” 1 John 5:2–3​

So the issue is not whether we are saved by law. We are not. The issue is whether faith in Christ produces obedience to God. John’s answer is clearly yes.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is not the ten commandments.

Why does the law that was given to Israel mean so much to you?

 

[Inquisitor]

Then he says these are summed up in love for neighbor.

That is not the commandment that Jesus gave us.

 

[Inquisitor]

When did I ever write that what is written in nine of the ten commandments has been abolished?
What was written in that law is now in the hearts and minds of believers. And it has a far more powerful impact than an external law engraved in stone ever will.
It is not there as a thou shalt not, but simply in a believers mind they know God does not want them to steal, commit adultery, murder, take His name in vain, covet, lie. The words ten commandments are for the old covenant, not new.
Do I disregard for example the fact I should not lust/dwell on impure thoughts? Never! That is constantly with me in my heart and mind. In fact, I have wept bitter tears often before God in my prayer time for my imperfections on the inside. I imagine you must too, as you stress the importance of obeying ''the ten''

So you are under the law.

 

[Thaddeus]

So you are under the law.

No
I only have one righteousness before God, faith in his son

 

[Inquisitor]

Honestly, I do not understand why people do not accept the words that come out of the mouth of Jesus Himself but look for other verses to try and show that His words do not mean what HE SAYS! Everyone is entitled to believe what they want!

I agree that 1 John 3:22–24 is very clear — but it does not prove what you are claiming.

John does say:

“This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another.”​

But notice the passage does not begin by saying there is only one commandment. It says:

“because we keep His commandments”​

​

“The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him”​

So John uses the plural first: commandments. Then he gives the central summary of Christian obedience: faith in Christ and love for one another. That is very similar to Jesus saying the whole law hangs on loving God and loving neighbor. That does not mean “do not murder,” “do not commit adultery,” “do not steal,” or “do not covet” disappear. It means true obedience is now centered in Christ and expressed through love.


Also, “not under the law” does not mean “not obligated to obey God’s moral commandments.” Paul himself says:

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” Romans 3:31​

And again:

“For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet… is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” Romans 13:9​

Paul does not say love replaces those commandments. He says love fulfills them.

So John says we are to believe in Christ and love one another. But that is not an argument against the Ten Commandments. It is the spiritual foundation by which God’s commandments are now kept in Christ — not as a means of earning salvation, and not under the old covenant condemnation, but as the fruit of abiding in Him.

If “love one another” means we may now ignore God’s commandments, then love has been emptied of its biblical meaning. John himself says:

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.” 1 John 5:2–3​

So the issue is not whether we are saved by law. We are not. The issue is whether faith in Christ produces obedience to God. John’s answer is clearly yes.

There is a difference between the written law of Mt Sinai and the Law of Christ, the Royal Law, the Law of Liberty,
the Golden Rule, the Perfect Law.

The Fruit of the Holy Spirit does not have the 10 commandments listed as fruit.

So how on earth do you produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Inquisitor]

No
I only have one righteousness before God, faith in his son

Since you are not a member of the Old Covenant your not under the law (Ten Commandments).

 

[Thaddeus]

Since you are not a member of the Old Covenant your not under the law (Ten Commandments).

I agree

 

[JustThinking]

When did I ever write that what is written in nine of the ten commandments has been abolished?
What was written in that law is now in the hearts and minds of believers. And it has a far more powerful impact than an external law engraved in stone ever will.
It is not there as a thou shalt not, bmply in a believers mind they know God does not want them to steal, commit adultery, murder, take His name in vain, covet, lie. The words ten commandments are for the old covenant, not new.
Do I disregard for example the fact I should not lust/dwell on impure thoughts? Never! That is constantly with me in my heart and mind. In fact, I have wept bitter tears often before God in my prayer time for my imperfections on the inside. I imagine you must too, as you stress the importance of obeying ''the ten''

Thanks for all your responses. I believe i will once again move on. Best wishes.

 

[Inquisitor]

I agree

That is good to hear because we have lot's of traditional church members on CF.