Was Judas Iscariot saved, or was he not?

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

What is Judas uniqe sin?

His sin wasn't unique other than him being more treacherous than any other. He perished because he did not believe God's witness that he sent his son into the world to save Israel from its sins. Rather he believed that the messiah came to save Israel from the Romans and to set up a world empire. That sin wasn't unique and in fact was taught by the leaders of Israel

 

[pinebeach]

There are two revelations of God recognized by theology, the general and the special. I maintain that they should not contradict and if they seem to then at least one is being misunderstood. I suspect that you agree of the two, but maintain that if they contradict, YOUR understanding of the special is correct. My preference is to examine both and possibly adjust my understanding of one or the other or even both. To put it another way, you seem to decide what is true and then adjust the facts to fit, I look at the facts and adjust what I think is true to fit them.

Regarding Judas, his actions as recorded as having occurred after the fate of Jesus was known could be read as repentance. If that reading is correct, it is possible that he was saved and would still be consistent with scripture, thus I hold that his ultimate fate is unknown, remaining consistent with the facts rather than looking only at the facts that support a preconceived answer.

I read and study scripture. You interpret scripture because how dare God define what is right and wrong, moral and immoral.


12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12

 

[Suze]

O

yes.

Of course yes , it happens plenty in the Old Testament .

 

[Suze]

Did you answer my question, no.. quite flippant actually.

One more try, could the Spirit of God dwell in a person prior to the Death and Resurrection of Christ Jesus and the day of Pentecost

Of course yes , have u not read the Old Testament ?

 

[HeIsHere]

Of course yes , have u not read the Old Testament ?

Have you? How about the NT have you read it?

John 7:39

39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [a]believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

 

[Suze]

Have you? How about the NT have you read it?

John 7:39

39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [a]believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

There r dozens of references I could give u from the Old , I don't have time but , to give u the first one that immediately sprang into my mind Psalm 51 v 11 . Loads more if u use the KJV and a Strongs Exhaustive Concordance u will find them . Happy hunting

 

[Suze]

There r dozens of references I could give u from the Old , I don't have time but , to give u the first one that immediately sprang into my mind Psalm 51 v 11 . Loads more if u use the KJV and a Strongs Exhaustive Concordance u will find them . Happy hunting

Have you? How about the NT have you read it?

John 7:39

39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [a]believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Luke chapter 1 verse 15 , speaking if John the Baptist , the Angel of the Lord says : For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord , and shall neither drink wine nor strong drink ; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost , even from his mother's womb .

 

[Suze]

Have you? How about the NT have you read it?

John 7:39

39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [a]believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Luke Ch 1 V 15 .

 

[HeIsHere]

There r dozens of references I could give u from the Old , I don't have time but , to give u the first one that immediately sprang into my mind Psalm 51 v 11 . Loads more if u use the KJV and a Strongs Exhaustive Concordance u will find them . Happy hunting

I know them and they do not support your belief.

Not one is about the unique indwelling of the Spirit of God found only after the ascension of Christ Jesus ... which is only for the believers post the incarnation and ascension which only the could experience in real time here on Earth, this is not found in the OT in terms of permanence, intensity or depth.

 

[HeIsHere]

Luke Ch 1 V 15 .

Best not to flatten God, but also best not to make exceptions the rule in redemptive history, that will make a mess of scripture.

 

[Suze]

Have you? How about the NT have you read it?

John 7:39

39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [a]believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Luke Ch 1 V 41 .

Have you? How about the NT have you read it?

John 7:39

39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [a]believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Have you? How about the NT have you read it?

John 7:39

39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [a]believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Luke Ch 1 V 67 .

Have you? How about the NT have you read it?

John 7:39

39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [a]believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Luke Ch 2 V 25 + 26 .

 

[Suze]

Best not to flatten God, but also best not to make exceptions the rule in redemptive history, that will make a mess of scripture.

Best not to b quite so dogmatic and agressive ?

 

[HeIsHere]

Best not to b quite so dogmatic and agressive ?

Of course yes , have u not read the Old Testament ?

Right.

 

[lrs68]

Exactly, using modern day ideas, language, concepts and categorization and then work backwards and finding them in scripture.

It's the Reformed Dogma and it's not correct in all facets to be called something compared to Gospel and Biblical. He was merely giving me answers according to the bulletin points of the standard Reformed belief system. That is why he must ASSUME Jesus was talking to people that were never Saved. But honestly speaking, more sinners lost without God are offended by those in the Faith rather than God. That is Iniquity.

 

[Karlon]

Sorry your affirmation is not sufficient proof.... and it also nullifies the need for the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus.

let not a case of "paralysis by analysis" be the case here. generally, i don't get into long drawn out discussions about most subkjects. peace to you.

 

[Suze]

Right.

Just responding in the manner I was first addressed .

 

[HeIsHere]

Of course yes , have u not read the Old Testament ?

Just responding in the manner I was first addressed .

That would be incorrect, you first replied to me at 10:25 am my time, with the top comment which is both dogmatic and aggressive by insinuating I had not read the OT.

 

[HeIsHere]

Definitely. The Psalmist wrote:

(Psa 51:11 NKJV) Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

How could God take the Holy Spirit from David if David did not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in him?

In Isaiah we read:

(Isa 63:11 NKJV) Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people, saying: "Where is He who brought them up out of the sea With the shepherd of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them,

Of John the Baptiser it was said:

(Luk 1:15) For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.

So certainly we have examples in Scripture of people who had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them before the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

To state very clearly once again and see scripture as the unfolding of the redemptive history of mankind, yes Jesus died for all...
we must remember that there is a distinction with regards to believers of the OT who had the promise, the believers who were with Jesus while He was tabernacling among them and the people in the church post the ascension.

These Old Testament saints are still believers, but they had not experienced the full indwelling of the Spirit, since the work of Christ had not yet been completed.

We need to rightly divide how the Spirit of God relates to people before the incarnation and ascension of Christ and afterward.

Scripture informs us that after to the ascension of Christ the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is>>>> permanent, is a greater intensity and depth.

This would explain why David did not want the Spirit of God removed from Him

It was only after the sanctifying work of the blood atonement of Christ Jesus and His ascension did the Holy Spirit become a permanent resident of the believer.

It is only after the ascension of Christ Jesus does the Holy Spririt indwell believers in a unique way which was not available to the OT saints because the death, resurrection and ascension need to happen in real time before the Holy Spirit descended on them fully and permanently.

This is systematic theology at its best.

 

[PennEd]

Jesus never once says they were Saved or Not Saved. He said they were workers of Iniquity. You can be saved and look at a sinner in judgement and ultimately cause them to hate what you have and that is working Iniquity.

What!?

Jesus said verbatim.

“I NEVER KNEW YOU “ He literally said they were NEVER saved.

How could they at ANY time have been saved?

How is it possible you cannot see this?

 

[Lamar]

These dudes did miraculous deeds just like Judas.
Were they saved at one time?

Matthew 7 NIV

True and False Disciples​

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22;Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Not to mention it’s common knowledge that a person needs to prove THEIR positive statement, and others do not need to prove a negative.

You have not in the slightest proven that Judas was saved. That’s because you can’t. He wasn’t, and there is zero Biblical evidence that he was.

This passage is a great example of modern day claims of tangible supernatural manifestations. These "false disciples" claimed to do these great things. But did they?

Did they count their glossolalia as prophesy, was their "in the name of Jesus" sessions nothing more than mindless chants, was their mundane events really miracles?

Jesus never acknowledges their claims as real. I suggest this is true of the claims of the Pentecostals today.

BTW, I believe that the name of Judas will not be in the Book of Life when it is opened.

Unless Judas is among the elect.

If you believe in such a thing.