More about Israel.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Thaddeus said:
Have another go, I do find it amusing:
Again the word of the Lord came to me: 17 ‘Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman’s monthly uncleanness in my sight. 18 So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with their idols. 19 I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions. 20 And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, “These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.” 21 I had concern for my holy name, which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.

22 ‘Therefore say to the Israelites, “This is what the Sovereign Lord says: it is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. 23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

24 ‘“For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Click to expand...

Happened when Israel returned to the land following their Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. They were in the land for centuries before Christ arrived and gave them a new heart and spirit.
 
Thaddeus said:
Im confidant you can theologise the following away too:

In those days and at that time,
when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat
There I will put them on trial
for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel,
because they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land.
3 They cast lots for my people
and traded boys for prostitutes;
they sold girls for wine to drink.
4 ‘Now what have you against me, Tyre and Sidon and all you regions of Philistia? Are you repaying me for something I have done? If you are paying me back, I will swiftly and speedily return on your own heads what you have done. 5 For you took my silver and my gold and carried off my finest treasures to your temples.[You sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks, that you might send them far from their homeland.

7 ‘See, I am going to rouse them out of the places to which you sold them, and I will return on your own heads what you have done. 8 I will sell your sons and daughters to the people of Judah, and they will sell them to the Sabeans, a nation far away.’ The Lord has spoken.

9 Proclaim this among the nations:
Prepare for war!
Rouse the warriors!
Let all the fighting men draw near and attack.
10 Beat your ploughshares into swords
and your pruning hooks into spears.
Let the weakling say,
‘I am strong!’
11 Come quickly, all you nations from every side,
and assemble there.
Bring down your warriors, Lord!
12 ‘Let the nations be roused;
let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat,
for there I will sit
to judge all the nations on every side.
13 Swing the sickle,
for the harvest is ripe.
Come, trample the grapes,
for the winepress is full
and the vats overflow –
so great is their wickedness!’
14 Multitudes, multitudes
in the valley of decision!
For the day of the Lord is near
in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and moon will be darkened,
and the stars no longer shine.
16 The Lord will roar from Zion
and thunder from Jerusalem;
the earth and the heavens will tremble.
But the Lord will be a refuge for his people,
a stronghold for the people of Israel.

​

17 ‘Then you will know that I, the Lord your God,
dwell in Zion, my holy hill.
Jerusalem will be holy;
never again will foreigners invade her.
18 ‘In that day the mountains will drip new wine,
and the hills will flow with milk;
all the ravines of Judah will run with water.
A fountain will flow out of the Lord’s house
and will water the valley of acacias.But Egypt will be desolate,
Edom a desert waste,
because of violence done to the people of Judah,
in whose land they shed innocent blood.
20 Judah will be inhabited for ever
and Jerusalem through all generations.
21 Shall I leave their innocent blood unavenged?
No, I will not.’
The Lord dwells in Zion!

Joel ch3
Click to expand...

Without spending time to to examine every little detail, that prophecy sounds like what happened during the Maccabee wars
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Happened when Israel returned to the land following their Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. They were in the land for centuries before Christ arrived and gave them a new heart and spirit.
Click to expand...
Really? Most of them rejected Christ. The prophecies say they will never again be uprooted from the land, but you carry on
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThereRoseaLamb
Thaddeus said:
Really? Most of them rejected Christ. The prophecies say they will never again be uprooted from the land, but you carry on
Click to expand...

Where do you get the idea that all are going to be saved? Throughout scripture only a remnant has ever been saved.

The Israel that will never be uprooted from the land is the believing remnant throughout all generations that Christ will bring with him during the resurrection.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Journey_man
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Without spending time to to examine every little detail, that prophecy sounds like what happened during the Maccabee wars
Click to expand...
‘The days are coming,’ declares the Lord,

‘when the reaper will be overtaken by the ploughman
and the planter by the one treading grapes.
New wine will drip from the mountains
and flow from all the hills,
14  and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.
‘They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,’
says the Lord your God.

Amos9:13-15

So in your theologising, since the time of Christ the Israelites have always possessed the promised land.
 
  • Heart
Reactions: ThereRoseaLamb
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Where do you get the idea that all are going to be saved? Throughout scripture only a remnant has ever been saved.

The Israel that will never be uprooted from the land is the believing remnant throughout all generations that Christ will bring with him during the resurrection.
Click to expand...
All that theologising to overturn huge swathes of the written word
 
Thaddeus said:
‘The days are coming,’ declares the Lord,

‘when the reaper will be overtaken by the ploughman
and the planter by the one treading grapes.
New wine will drip from the mountains
and flow from all the hills,
14  and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.
‘They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,’
says the Lord your God.

Amos9:13-15

So in your theologising, since the time of Christ the Israelites have always possessed the promised land.
Click to expand...

It's not my "theologizing". James, Jesus' brother who knew him very well, explicitly said that prophecy was being fulfilled in their time (Acts 15:14-18), not 2000 years into the future. But again, you don't believe what scripture says; you believe dogma others have taught you to believe.

The last verse is obviously looking to Jesus' return when he brings the resurrected Israel with him to live in the land forever never to be uprooted again.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
It's not my "theologizing". James, Jesus' brother who knew him very well, explicitly said that prophecy was being fulfilled in their time (Acts 15:14-18), not 2000 years into the future. But again, you don't believe what scripture says; you believe dogma others have taught you to believe.

The last verse is obviously looking to Jesus' return when he brings the resurrected Israel with him to live in the land forever never to be uprooted again.
Click to expand...
Why quote the bible? In your view the plain words of it can be overturned at will
 
This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbours,
or say to one another, “Know the Lord,”
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more. Heb8:10-12


I imagine the emboldened would be changed to, ''all who accept the covenant will know God, from the least to the greatest''
 
Thaddeus said:
Why quote the bible? In your view the plain words of it can be overturned at will
Click to expand...

The plain words are that the Amos prophecy you quoted began to be fulfilled 2000 years ago because James, the head of the church, said so. But you don't believe what he said and presume to know better because deceivers have cast a spell on your mind.
 
Thaddeus said:
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more. Heb8:10-12
I imagine the emboldened would be changed to, ''all who accept the covenant will know God, from the least to the greatest''
Click to expand...

Yeah duh. Where has God ever dealt with his people apart from a covenant? No one receives the holy spirit to know God except those who believe in him and become part of the new covenant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Churchgoer
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The plain words are that the Amos prophecy you quoted began to be fulfilled 2000 years ago because James, the head of the church, said so. But you don't believe what he said and presume to know better because deceivers have cast a spell on your mind.
Click to expand...
No, they are fulfilled when Israel will never again be uprooted from the land
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back