Calvinism is Gospel !

[HeIsHere]

Too true hear. I'm not familiar with all the dogam battle lingo. What is CDS that you seem to think I have?

I was not saying you have it, to be clear, I was just commenting that the accusation was being levied was again.

Calvin derangement syndrome (CDS) is a made up syndrome, no worries it does not exist but sometimes it is there only line of defense.

 

[Magenta]

Isaiah 55 v 10-11 Just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat, so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it.

 

[HeIsHere]

She was already an OT believer. That means she was declared righteous because of her faith, just like Abraham. But she can only receive those promises of salvation "In Christ" (Hebrews 11:39-40).

Acts 16:14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.

We see God's predestination at work, just like with Cornelius and His family, which were all 'God fearers'. This is providence.

Acts 10:2 (Cornelius) a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always.

Acts 10:5-6, 32 Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter. He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea. He will tell you what you must do.".......Send therefore to Joppa and call Simon here, whose surname is Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea. When he comes, he will speak to you.'

Acts 11:12-18 Then the Spirit told me to go with them, doubting nothing. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered the man's house. And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, 'Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.' And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."



Being born again is the result of believing the Gospel, I agree, but it is not the result of true OT believers when they believe. They were owed that Promise. They had to wait for it. We see that promise being delivered to whom it was owed in Acts. First, true OT believers those who already heard and belied the Gospel, like these in John 7:38-39. And those, like Lydia and Cornelius who had not yet heard the Gospel, but were true OT believers.

Dave

Yes there is providence, but God does not ever force anyone and people can refuse, other than that completely agree.

 

[Roger316]

There is no scripture that states that God places his HOLY spirit into an unregenerate vessel so that they are saved.

Here’s the clearest way to frame it: the Bible *does* teach that God places His Spirit into an unregenerate person in order to regenerate them, but it never describes the Spirit entering someone who is already spiritually alive. In other words, the Spirit’s indwelling is the *cause* of new birth, not the *result* of it.

The first place this appears is Jesus’ teaching to Nicodemus. Jesus says a person must be “born of the Spirit” to enter the kingdom, which means the Spirit acts on someone who is still dead in sin. The Spirit’s work is the new birth itself. Nicodemus is not told to do anything to become regenerate; he is told that the Spirit sovereignly gives life where there is none. That is the Spirit entering an unregenerate vessel so that the person becomes regenerate.

Paul makes the same point from a different angle. When he speaks of believers being “sanctified by the Spirit,” he is not describing a later moral improvement but the initial act by which God sets a person apart for Himself. In Paul’s usage, sanctification begins at conversion, not after it. The Spirit’s sanctifying work is the moment God claims someone, gives them faith, and makes them holy in His sight. That requires the Spirit to enter a person who is not yet spiritually alive. Paul’s logic is: the Spirit enters → the person is sanctified → the person believes → the person is saved.

Why convict the world of sin when God is just going to skip over that and regenerate all these sinners?

Predestination is God’s orchestration of a whole human life, not an isolated moment. The Spirit’s work of conviction is not wasted or bypassed simply because God regenerates sinners; conviction is part of the storyline God has predestined for each person He intends to save. God never predestines people in isolation—He predestines their entire narrative, including the moments when they awaken to their sin, feel its weight, and recognize their need for mercy. Conviction is the way God brings a person’s inner life into the light so that regeneration is not an abstract event but a lived transformation. In other words, God does not “skip over” conviction; He weaves it into the path that leads a sinner from blindness to life. The Spirit convicts, the Spirit regenerates, and the Spirit sanctifies—each step belonging to the single story God has written for those He will save without exception.

Jesus’ teaching on the new birth shows that God never regenerates people in a vacuum; He brings them to life through a storyline that includes awakening, conviction, and calling. When Jesus says the Spirit gives new birth, He is describing the moment when God’s call becomes effective—when a sinner who has been convicted of the truth is suddenly made alive to it. Paul describes the same reality when he speaks of God calling people “through our gospel”: the outward call confronts the sinner, the inward call regenerates the sinner, and together they form the path God predestined for that person’s salvation. In both Jesus and Paul, regeneration is not God “skipping over” conviction but God completing the very process He began when He opened a sinner’s eyes to the truth. The storyline is one piece: conviction prepares, calling summons, and regeneration creates life. Do Calvinists not realize that the Holy Spirit is Holy as is God? Did you miss that? He will not, does not and has no persuasion from God, to replace the work of Christ and save those who repent of their sin and accept Christ's work on their behalf.

God creates the whole person, even his or her timeline.

 

[pinebeach]

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

The fool has said in his heart there is no God. Psalm 14

There is no indication in scripture that denies the ability of people to reach out to God or be unable to hear such as would turn a heart to salvation.

The Calvinists and those inclined towards Calvinism deny that, but can offer nothing from scripture that is compatible with it.

 

[brightfame52]

Unlike the Calvinist, I believe that we are free to accept or reject salvation. The Holy Spirit does present Christ, but He does not take the place of Christ nor does He save from sin.

Read scripture. The Holy Spirit CONVICTS of sin; He does not excuse it.

It is not limited atonement. That is your understanding which, you would not have, if you were not mistakenly convinced of the
non-scriptural ideas you have come to believe.

So you dont believe Christ death saved them He died for. So how can you say you believe in Christ as Saviour ?

 

[HeIsHere]

The first place this appears is Jesus’ teaching to Nicodemus. Jesus says a person must be “born of the Spirit” to enter the kingdom, which means the Spirit acts on someone who is still dead in sin. The Spirit’s work is the new birth itself. Nicodemus is not told to do anything to become regenerate; he is told that the Spirit sovereignly gives life where there is none. That is the Spirit entering an unregenerate vessel so that the person becomes regenerate.

I would say this is a stretch, all Jesus was saying is that the Spirit cannot be controlled by man.

 

[brightfame52]

Well you keep saying that.

Ive shown it several times. The Spirit regenerates[save] so one can believe.

 

[brightfame52]

I think I am finally tiring of this merry - go - round, what I am really taking note of is that those who do NOT adhere to TULIP are

individuals with individual unique ways and ideas to present the same truth.

TULIP adherents/proponents not so much, same probing questions over and over and same defense over and over.

You dont really believe Jesus death saved them He died for, what a pity

 

[Roger316]

Yes there is providence, but God does not ever force anyone and people can refuse, other than that completely agree.

Providence never means coercion, and you’re right to insist that God does not force anyone into faith. The key is the difference between a powerful deity inside the universe and the Creator who stands outside it. A powerful god would have to push, pressure, or override human will to get “obedience of faith.” But the transcendent Creator does not operate by force; He operates by *creation*. When He says, “Let there be light,” light does not resist—it simply exists. In the same way, when He wills “Let there be Joe who comes to faith in Jesus Christ,” Joe’s faith is not coerced; it is *created*. Joe freely believes because God has authored a storyline in which Joe truly, willingly comes to Christ. Predestination is not God overpowering a person’s will but God writing a life in which that person genuinely responds, loves, and believes.

 

[pinebeach]

The first place this appears is Jesus’ teaching to Nicodemus. Jesus says a person must be “born of the Spirit” to enter the kingdom, which means the Spirit acts on someone who is still dead in sin. The Spirit’s work is the new birth itself. Nicodemus is not told to do anything to become regenerate; he is told that the Spirit sovereignly gives life where there is none. That is the Spirit entering an unregenerate vessel so that the person becomes regenerate.

Simply put: you present Calvinism wearing a different costume, but it's still a costume.

Paul makes the same point from a different angle. When he speaks of believers being “sanctified by the Spirit,” he is not describing a later moral improvement but the initial act by which God sets a person apart for Himself. In Paul’s usage, sanctification begins at conversion, not after it. The Spirit’s sanctifying work is the moment God claims someone, gives them faith, and makes them holy in His sight. That requires the Spirit to enter a person who is not yet spiritually alive. Paul’s logic is: the Spirit enters → the person is sanctified → the person believes → the person is saved.

Sanctification is on ongoing process. Your logic, not Paul's, is mistaken. Look up regeneration to help you understand what sancitification is.

Synonyms of sanctification
1
: an act of sanctifying

2
a
: the state of being sanctified
b
: the state of growing in divine grace as a result of Christian commitment after baptism or conversion

 

[brightfame52]

We require regeneration in order to be equipped to comprehend Bible doctrine.

Yes, the Gospel is doctrine, what Christ did is Doctrine have you ever heard of the doctrine of Christ Heb 6:1

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works,

2 Jn 1:9

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Didnt you know believing is obeying doctrine Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

What you think Rom 6:17 is about ? What form of Doctrine ?

 

[Magenta]

Providence never means coercion, and you’re right to insist that God does not force anyone into faith. The key is the difference between a powerful deity inside the universe and the Creator who stands outside it. A powerful god would have to push, pressure, or override human will to get “obedience of faith.” But the transcendent Creator does not operate by force; He operates by *creation*. When He says, “Let there be light,” light does not resist—it simply exists. In the same way, when He wills “Let there be Joe who comes to faith in Jesus Christ,” Joe’s faith is not coerced; it is *created*. Joe freely believes because God has authored a storyline in which Joe truly, willingly comes to Christ. Predestination is not God overpowering a person’s will but God writing a life in which that person genuinely responds, loves, and believes.

He began a good work and will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Your Promise

 

[HeIsHere]

Providence never means coercion, and you’re right to insist that God does not force anyone into faith. The key is the difference between a powerful deity inside the universe and the Creator who stands outside it. A powerful god would have to push, pressure, or override human will to get “obedience of faith.” But the transcendent Creator does not operate by force; He operates by *creation*. When He says, “Let there be light,” light does not resist—it simply exists. In the same way, when He wills “Let there be Joe who comes to faith in Jesus Christ,” Joe’s faith is not coerced; it is *created*. Joe freely believes because God has authored a storyline in which Joe truly, willingly comes to Christ. Predestination is not God overpowering a person’s will but God writing a life in which that person genuinely responds, loves, and believes.

As long as the gift of salvation is available to all who choose to believe it and receive it ... I agree.

 

[brightfame52]

Being born again is the result of believing the Gospel,

You got it backwards

 

[HeIsHere]

Simply put: you present Calvinism wearing a different costume, but it's still a costume.

Yes one has to be careful of this.

 

[pinebeach]

Predestination is God’s orchestration of a whole human life, not an isolated moment. The Spirit’s work of conviction is not wasted or bypassed simply because God regenerates sinners; conviction is part of the storyline God has predestined for each person He intends to save. God never predestines people in isolation—He predestines their entire narrative, including the moments when they awaken to their sin, feel its weight, and recognize their need for mercy. Conviction is the way God brings a person’s inner life into the light so that regeneration is not an abstract event but a lived transformation. In other words, God does not “skip over” conviction; He weaves it into the path that leads a sinner from blindness to life. The Spirit convicts, the Spirit regenerates, and the Spirit sanctifies—each step belonging to the single story God has written for those He will save without exception.

Look, once you started in on Calvinism and got confused over what sanctification/regereration, you lost me. I appreciate the effort you have made, but your understanding is the usual Calvin said, Calvin taught, Calvin's gospel, Calvin Calvin Calvin.

Jesus’ teaching on the new birth shows that God never regenerates people in a vacuum; He brings them to life through a storyline that includes awakening, conviction, and calling. When Jesus says the Spirit gives new birth, He is describing the moment when God’s call becomes effective—when a sinner who has been convicted of the truth is suddenly made alive to it. Paul describes the same reality when he speaks of God calling people “through our gospel”: the outward call confronts the sinner, the inward call regenerates the sinner, and together they form the path God predestined for that person’s salvation. In both Jesus and Paul, regeneration is not God “skipping over” conviction but God completing the very process He began when He opened a sinner’s eyes to the truth. The storyline is one piece: conviction prepares, calling summons, and regeneration creates life. Do Calvinists not realize that the Holy Spirit is Holy as is God? Did you miss that? He will not, does not and has no persuasion from God, to replace the work of Christ and save those who repent of their sin and accept Christ's work on their behalf.

Correct. People are regenerated when they accept the actual biblical gospel and it is not Calvinism, Tulipism or a rose by any other name.

You have swallowed Calvinism and found it tasty; I find it leaves a bitter taste and misrepresents God.

 

[Genez]

I have seen two people converted on CC by another wolf years ago, that was a sad thing to see happen.
But I will say he was a staunch Calvinist and very forthright, no mind games.

I like the last picture you painted .. yes for those grounded in the truth of Christ Jesus.

Everyone is going to be accountable before God for what they chose to believe.
For God is everywhere and not without the ability to send help where help is to be received.

Think about it...

The Lord had Daniel thrown into the lions' den.
And the three Jewish boys thrown into the fiery furnace.
So he sends some of us here!

Whomever they may convert here?
It will not be because of their 'superior wisdom.'
It will be because of some wanting what is inferior.
They are here to gather like with like.

Keep in mind... Satan never wins.

He only wins over more to join him in being a loser.
It all stems from a deep resentment of God.

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, ​

who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe." 1 Timothy 4:10​

It says that is so right here!

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours ​

but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2​

Leave them be dumbfounded.
Since they are so wise?

 

[Roger316]

I would say this is a stretch, all Jesus was saying is that the Spirit cannot be controlled by man.

Is that ALL Jesus was saying?

Nicodemus comes to Jesus because he has already seen something divine in Him—he admits that no one could do these signs unless God were with Him. Jesus’s reply is profound: He tells Nicodemus that no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. Let that settle. Nicodemus’s ability to recognize God’s kingdom breaking into the world through Jesus’s works is itself evidence that the Spirit was already at work in him. His willingness to acknowledge the truth, to see God’s hand in Jesus, shows that the new birth had begun in him even before he understood it.

 

[pinebeach]

Yes one has to be careful of this.

Climbing in through the window or using the back door is a tactic taught to those who follow tulipism with their whole heart.