Calvinism is Gospel !

[Roger316]

This kinda sounds like how Chat GPT talks/responds to me, hmmm

Sure go for it, I wil come back to your responses later today.

I want to know what questions you might have. Do you understand what we mean when we say that God is the transcendent creator?

I don't use Chat GPT. I use Bing Copilot. The ideas are mine. Copilot is simply my professional writer. When I disagree with Copilot, I correct the paragraph before I post it.

 

[Calmador]

Lol aint no tatic, you just dont believe Jesus death saved nobody, You believe more than likely His death made salvation possible.

Yup, that's bible, Jesus death made salvation possible. That's just bread and butter Christianity

 

[Magenta]

According to your hero, a saved man was in Christ before the foundation of the world. He could not be, nor ever will be lost.

Jesus came to seek and save the lost. His lost sheep. Are you a sheep? Or a goat?

My oh my, how the free willers find ways to deny Scripture!

Your inventions are never ending.

Like "free will."

LOL

 

[Roger316]

That's not true.

Are you speaking for yourself or others also?

 

[HeIsHere]

I want to know what questions you might have. Do you understand what we mean when we say that God is the transcendent creator?

I don't use Chat GPT. I use Bing Copilot. The ideas are mine. Copilot is simply my professional writer. When I disagree with Copilot, I correct the paragraph before I post it.

It was the last line, gave me a chuckle.. this AI is always wanting to please.

Yes, I know what transcendent means, not sure how that solves the dissonance created in your view.

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 2 v 1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

 

[Dave123]

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians ch 2 v 14

1 Corinthians 2:14 is speaking of the deeper things of Scripture, not the Gospel.

Take that passage, and connect it with 1 Corinthians 2:11 B "...Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God."

Look to the OT and you'll see the bigger picture. They were not yet indwelt with the Holy Spirit and born again, yet the believed (John 7:38-39).

And because they were not yet born again, they could not understand those deeper spiritual truths beyond the simple Gospel message. (John 16:12-15, 14:26).

We know that that man can believe without the indwelling, which allows a person to be born again, because the indwelling, the Life, is the result of that initial "acceptance" of the Gospel. Ephesians 1:13-14, Galatians 3:2-4.

You're reading thing into that verse that it doesn't say, and that theology is hostile to the rest of Scripture, as I have shown here with just a few examples. Believe, and be saved. With the spirit we have the life, without the spirit we don't (Romans 8:9-11). Believe and be saved.

What Does the Bible Say About Believe In The Name Of Jesus And Be Saved?

Bible verses about Believe In The Name Of Jesus And Be Saved

www.openbible.info

Dave

 

[Magenta]

1 Corinthians 2:14 is speaking of the deeper things of Scripture, not the Gospel.

The gospel is heard as foolishness by those blinded. They are opposed to the spiritual things of God. Period.

 

[Dave123]

The Gospel is hid to those who are lost, the lost in this context are those who refused to believe, who did not receive the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Even those lost, at that point in time, could come to belief at another point in time, I am sure Paul had in mind a particular people who chose not to believe and they were lost when he wrote the letter.

The letter is for encouragement, that is how it should be read.

Sometimes we over define things. Remember, Jesus spoke in parables so that they could not understand Him and believe. Why would He speak in parables to do this, if it was already true? These were the hard headed Jews, Like in John 12 when this happened.

John 12:35-42 Then Jesus said to them, "A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light." These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them. But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again: "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them." These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him. Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;

Then we could even further contrast that with Paul in Romans 11, who claims that the hardening was only partial, that the natural branches (unbelieving Jews) could be grafted back in if they repent and believe.

 

[Dave123]

The gospel is heard as foolishness by those blinded. They are opposed to the spiritual things of God. Period.

But they understand it to oppose it, right?

 

[pinebeach]

Whatever the Gospel is, its hid to them that are lost.

The gospel, meaning good news, is not Calvinism. There is salvation only through Jesus who said 'It is finished' when He gave up His earthly life. His shed blood was a sinless sacrifice before God and those who accept Him, identify with Him and God declares them righteous because of His Son.

How can you be so blatantly unable to glorify God who has extended grace towards all humans and state 'whatever the gospel is?'

That flippant attitude does not seem to give honor to Christ. Does it glorify Calvinism? All in Christ are forgiven and that is God's gift to those who believe.

…9Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.…Phil.2

God has exalted Jesus, not 5 point calvinism

 

[brightfame52]

A Short Explanation and Defense of the Doctrines of Grace

(Also Known As Calvinism)

(05/08/97)

by Grover Gunn

GRACE AND SALVATION

What is the grace of God? The Greek word translated grace has as its root idea the concept of bringing joy and gladness through gifts. The Apostle Paul uses this word to refer to the unmerited and freely given favor and mercy, which God bestows upon the sinner in salvation. Through this grace, the sinner is delivered from sin and judgment. This grace, though freely given, is precious and costly, for its basis is the saving work of Jesus Christ. A salvation that is received by grace is the very opposite of a salvation that is earned by working or by obeying the law of God. A person who is saved by grace has no basis for boasting in his salvation for he has done nothing to earn or merit it. The gospel of grace is the only true gospel. Those who teach a salvation that is earned or merited through obedience of any sort have to some degree fallen from the teachings of grace into legalism.

Being justified freely by His GRACE through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Romans 3:24

Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as GRACE but as debt. Romans 4:4
But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the GRACE of God and the gift by the GRACE of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. Romans 5:15
And if by GRACE, then it is no longer of works; otherwise GRACE is no longer GRACE. But if it is of works, it is no longer GRACE; otherwise work is no longer work. Romans 11:6
For you know the GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich. 2 Corinthians 8:9
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the GRACE of Christ, to a different gospel. Galatians 1:6
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from GRACE. Galatians 5:4
For by GRACE you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9
(God) has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and GRACE which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. 2 Timothy 1:9

What is the relationship of God's grace to salvation? There are three possible answers to this question. A few argue that there is no grace in salvation. Some maintain that salvation is mostly of grace. And others say that salvation is all of grace.

The position that salvation is not at all a gracious gift from God but a human achievement based on personal goodness and moral self-effort is characteristic of pagan religion and philosophy. Early in church history, a British monk named Pelagius tried to teach pagan moralism as Christian doctrine. Pelagius was condemned as a heretic, and his system was labeled Pelagianism. In Pelagianism, the saving work of Christ is not necessary; a man can save himself by leading a good and moral life. Yet even the Pelagian claims to teach a salvation by grace. According to the Pelagian, it is only by the grace of God that he was created as a man, a noble creature with the moral ability to earn heaven, and not as a frog or a rock. When the Pelagian speaks of the grace associated with salvation, he is referring to the grace of creation which is common to all men. When the orthodox Christian talks about salvation by grace, he is referring to the special grace of God which is based upon the work of Christ and which saves undeserving sinners.

There are many systems that teach that salvation is mostly of grace but not all of grace. The most common of these are semi-pelagianism and Arminianism. What is common to all these systems is the idea that the work of Christ has only made salvation a possibility for all but not a finished reality for any. God has done His part, and now those who are willing to do their part will be saved. In these systems, although God has the major role in salvation, it is the human contribution to salvation that turns the point and makes the difference between heaven and hell. Where these various systems differ is in defining the human contribution that results in salvation. It can be one or any combination of a number of spiritual acts and attitudes, such as nonresistance to the Holy Spirit, cooperation with the Holy Spirit, faith, works, obedience, perseverance, baptism, church membership, etc. In these systems, the saving work of Christ is necessary for salvation but not sufficient. The sinner must supplement the work of Christ to obtain salvation.

The doctrines of grace are the teaching that salvation is all of grace. The saving work of Christ is both necessary and sufficient to save sinners. In this system, it is the cross of Christ without compromise which makes the difference between heaven and hell. There is no room for any boasting whatsoever. The Calvinist looks at others who have rejected Jesus Christ and who remain in bondage to sin and says, "There but for the grace of God go I." The Calvinist recognizes that he did not turn the point in his salvation. He did not respond to the gospel in faith because of any natural goodness or wisdom which sets him apart from others. All the glory goes to Jesus Christ, for He has done it all. Even the ability to come to Christ in saving faith is a gift based upon the cross of Calvary. At the cross, Christ purchased for His people deliverance from the spirit of unbelief. Through His resurrection, He secured for His people the spiritual life which enables them to savingly believe. When a sinner is converted in response to the preaching of the gospel, it is because Christ has poured out His Holy Spirit upon him to apply to his heart the saving power of Christ's death and resurrection.

The doctrines of grace are the teaching that Jesus came into this world to save sinners. Jesus saves sinners. It is not that Jesus saves sinners when given the proper help. Jesus and only Jesus does the work of salvation. Jesus saves sinners. It is not that Jesus potentially saves or makes salvation possible. Jesus actually saves and completely saves. His work is a finished work that needs no rounding out or filling in. Jesus saves sinners. It is not that Jesus has made salvation a possibility for all but a finished accomplishment for no one. Jesus came to earth to make salvation a reality for specific individual sinners.

The doctrines of grace are usually discussed in terms of five separate doctrines which are called the five points of Calvinism. There is independent Scriptural support for each of the five points, and the five points are logically related such than any one of them implies the other four. The five points are easily remembered with the help of the acronym TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace and Perseverance of the saints. https://www.scionofzion.com/grace3.htm 7

 

[pinebeach]

Are you speaking for yourself or others also?

Who were you speaking on behalf of when you said you 'know' everyone here prefers brevity?

A quick apology up front: I know everyone here prefers brevity,

You must really think alot of yourself. You said everyone and that was what I addressed. In fact, that comment sounds more arrogant than apologetic.

 

[HeIsHere]

Sometimes we over define things. Remember, Jesus spoke in parables so that they could not understand Him and believe. Why would He speak in parables to do this, if it was already true? These were the hard headed Jews, Like in John 12 when this happened.

John 12:35-42 Then Jesus said to them, "A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light." These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them. But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again: "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them." These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him. Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;

Then we could even further contrast that with Paul in Romans 11, who claims that the hardening was only partial, that the natural branches (unbelieving Jews) could be grafted back in if they repent and believe.

Well, I guess we need to distinguish between the progressive revelation that has been documented for us to read and learn from during a time of transition from one age to the next........ and where we are presently firmly in the new testament age.

 

[HeIsHere]

But they understand it to oppose it, right?

No one is born opposing the Good News of Christ Jesus.

 

[brightfame52]

Find where this is affirmed in scripture... from birth?

I dont have to find it. Man is born lost. You find where men are born saved

 

[pinebeach]

I want to know what questions you might have. Do you understand what we mean when we say that God is the transcendent creator?

I don't use Chat GPT. I use Bing Copilot. The ideas are mine. Copilot is simply my professional writer. When I disagree with Copilot, I correct the paragraph before I post it.

copilot is a conversational, AI-powered assistant that helps boost productivity and streamline workflows by offering contextual assistance, automating routine tasks, and analyzing data.

AI by any other name

 

[brightfame52]

Because God hates their gutts?

God loves lost people. Why you think He sent Christ for them 1 Jn 4:10

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[HeIsHere]

I dont have to find it. Man is born lost. You find where men are born saved

One again,

You need to show in scripture where being born lost equates to..... being born unable to respond positively to the Good News of Christ Jesus.

They are not synonymous.

 

[brightfame52]

But the blind can still believe. And believing, that veil is lifted.

No they cant, the Gospel is hidden to them that are lost so they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.