Calvinism is Gospel !

[Roger316]

which verses are you referring to?

First of all, have you ever read any passages that spoke of surviving righteous people being protected in Jerusalem?

Do a word search in the Bible for the term "survivors." Notice what Isaiah and Ezekiel say about them. I mentioned the book of Joel so I offer the following verse: Joel 2:12

 

[Roger316]

Completely done with earthly Israel.

Not according to Romans 11

The Israel of God -the spiritual Church- is the ONLY Israel, that, through Jesus Christ Savior, has favor in God's eyes. The other nations, including earthly Israel, do not.

Have you ever done a word study on the term "Soter" pronounced so--tare?

 

[PennEd]

God is not done with Israel.
He has put Israel on hold until the fullness of the Church will be made complete.

But, Israel will be back once the Church is complete and taken to Heaven (the Rapture) to be with the Lord.

Here we go...

“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

Funny we get crickets from your girl HIH on this post. Interesting to see if her hatred of the Jews outweighs her agreement with you that she chose God instead of the other way around.

 

[Komentaja]

The natural man can neither submit to God nor obey Him. Romans 8 v 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. That refers to any not in Christ, who do not belong to Christ, as per Scripture, do I need to give the verse citation? The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth as per Scripture. Do I need to give the verse citation? Do you know who the world is? I will tell you in case you do not know. The world is those under the power and influence of the devil. Taken captive to do his will. Is it the devil's will that people believe? The world is blinded by, guess who? The god of this world. As per Scripture. Do I need to give a verse citation? Also as per Scripture, salvation is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. So inability of the natural man is clearly taught despite those that claim it is nowhere in Scripture. He is the one who is a slave to sin and lover of darkness defined as darkness itself refusing to come into the Light. That is the choice the natural man makes. Some call it freedom. I do not.

We know these verses, does quoting them remove Matthew 23:37 ?

If the argument is that those people just weren't elect, then why is Jesus saying what He does? Why does Jesus say HE was willing, if in reality He was not willing to gather?

 

[rogerg]

First of all, have you ever read any passages that spoke of surviving righteous people being protected in Jerusalem?

Do a word search in the Bible for the term "survivors." Notice what Isaiah and Ezekiel say about them. I mentioned the book of Joel so I offer the following verse: Joel 2:12

Sorry, I missed your Joel 2:12 reference. I'll review and reply.

 

[Roger316]

The scriptures does not teach that God’s Gospel is an offer to all men without exception, nor does it teach that God’s grace is general. The true gospel is a declaration of God’s saving power, Rom 1:16 and it teaches that God’s grace is particular, namely, reserved exclusively for a remnant of elect. God’s elect will regard the gospel of Christ as the power of God, whereas the non elect goats believe it is foolish 1 Corinthians 1:18. Thus, the gospel of Gods grace is not an offer that is tendered to all men in hopes that they will accept it. The true gospel is a declaration of God’s particular grace and atonement, and the righteousness of Christ, which is imputed only the elect. 2 Cor 5:21 7

Whereas you made some mistakes in your presentation, it is incomplete. The walk with Jesus Christ is a lived experience in which his followers live according to his teachings and define their existence by how they think and act.

 

[rogerg]

First of all, have you ever read any passages that spoke of surviving righteous people being protected in Jerusalem?

Do a word search in the Bible for the term "survivors." Notice what Isaiah and Ezekiel say about them. I mentioned the book of Joel so I offer the following verse: Joel 2:12

That occurred under the Old Covenant and was works based. It was replaced in total, along with earthly Israel, through Christ, by the New Covenant.

If you have other verses that corroborate your point of view, please post them

 

[Magenta]

We know these verses, does quoting them remove Matthew 23:37 ?

If the argument is that those people just weren't elect, then why is Jesus saying what
He does? Why does Jesus say HE was willing, if in reality He was not willing to gather?

You know those verses but have zero to say about them?

 

[Cameron143]

We know these verses, does quoting them remove Matthew 23:37 ?

If the argument is that those people just weren't elect, then why is Jesus saying what He does? Why does Jesus say HE was willing, if in reality He was not willing to gather?

He was willing to receive all the Father drew to Him. Had that been all of them, He was more than willing to save them all.

 

[Komentaja]

You know those verses but have zero to say about them?

I do, but why can no calvinist answer my question: Matthew 23:37 JESUS wants to gather, but the ones He wanted to gather were unwilling. How does that work? You can quote the verses you did. And lets say I apply them in a way that you do, it still would not work with Matthew 23:37 where Jesus specifically wants to gather the children of Jerusalem yet they were unwilling. Waiting for that exegesis.

 

[Magenta]

I do, but why can no calvinist answer my question: Matthew 23:37 JESUS wants to gather, but the ones He wanted to gather were unwilling. How does that work? You can quote the verses you did. And lets say I apply them in a way that you do, it still would not work with Matthew 23:37 where Jesus specifically wants to gather the children of Jerusalem yet they were unwilling. Waiting for that exegesis.

I am not a Calvinist, maybe ask one of them.

Perhaps it is like Adam when God asked where he was. Do you think God did not know?

I suspect it was that He was letting Adam know he was lost to Him.

And Adam knew he had lost God's covering, and attempted a covering of his own.

In similar manner the law was brought in to show us our sin.

If God thought we could obey everything perfectly, why the need for Christ?

Yet we have those claiming God does not command what cannot be obeyed.

Jesus was showing them their need of Him, Whom they rejected.

 

[Roger316]

Still waiting for the regeneration precedes faith verse.

Oh right it does not exist.

There is no verse that literally says, "regeneration precedes faith." But the idea is well supported by Scripture. For instance, Jesus teaches us in John 6:44 that

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him…”i

That’s the exact place where Jesus makes the statement about the Father’s prior action being the decisive cause of anyone coming to Christ.

John 6 is Jesus’ sustained explanation that faith is not self‑generated. The crowd thinks “coming to Jesus” is a matter of human initiative, but Jesus insists that the Father’s drawing precedes and enables any genuine coming. It’s part of the larger pattern in John: the Father gives, draws, teaches, and grants; the Son receives, keeps, and raises.

 

[Komentaja]

Yet we have those claiming God does not command what cannot be obeyed.

True

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.

 

[Magenta]

True

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.

Romans 11 v 32 God has consigned everyone to disobedience so that He may have mercy on all.

Oh, meant to add to my last post also but edit time ran out: They thought the law would save them.

I agree that it is God who works in believers to will and to act in order to fulfill His good purpose.

 

[Roger316]

I do, but why can no calvinist answer my question: Matthew 23:37 JESUS wants to gather, but the ones He wanted to gather were unwilling. How does that work? You can quote the verses you did. And lets say I apply them in a way that you do, it still would not work with Matthew 23:37 where Jesus specifically wants to gather the children of Jerusalem yet they were unwilling. Waiting for that exegesis.

Jesus’ lament is not about His eternal decree.It is about His covenantal posture toward Israel. God can genuinely desire Israel’s repentance (Ezekiel 18:23) while still sovereignly ordaining the salvation of His elect (John 6:37). Matthew 23:37 is a lament over covenant-breaking leaders, not a denial of sovereign grace.

 

[Roger316]

That occurred under the Old Covenant and was works based.

I don't know what you mean. It is a prediction of a future event. And it isn't works-based; it's faith-based. Those who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Coming to Jerusalem to pray for Israel is an act of faith.

 

[rogerg]

I do, but why can no calvinist answer my question: Matthew 23:37 JESUS wants to gather, but the ones He wanted to gather were unwilling. How does that work? You can quote the verses you did. And lets say I apply them in a way that you do, it still would not work with Matthew 23:37 where Jesus specifically wants to gather the children of Jerusalem yet they were unwilling. Waiting for that exegesis.

I'll take a try at it. If you read the verse closely, you can see Jesus made a distinction between "Jerusalem" and its "chicks".
Jerusalem is symbolic of the leadership of the Jewish religion because Jerusalem was its holy city. The "chicks"" weren't
its leadership but were the people who would have learned the doctrines of salvation had the leadership believed in Jesus. Jesus, in the verse, was telling its leadership, that the true gospel would no longer be preached nor found in the Jewish religion because they rejected Jesus as Savior - that was the "would not" and why their "house would be left desolate". He was not saying the "chicks" had a choice to believe or not. The "chicks" if of the elect, would have been led by God to Christ's disciples to learn the true tenets of Christianity, but no longer through the Jewish religion.
I think the mistake you make is to confuse Jerusalem with chicks.

 

[rogerg]

I don't know what you mean. It is a prediction of a future event. And it isn't works-based; it's faith-based. Those who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Coming to Jerusalem to pray for Israel is an act of faith.

I believe the "turn to me" (if that's what you are referring to), was a command they were to follow at that point in time not in the future. It was of the Old Covenant, because there are no commands to be satisfied by those that God places under the New Covenant - Jesus unilaterally satisfied all of the New Covenant's requirements, plus the "type" of the "turn ye" is "imperative"

 

[Bible_Locket]

If I may gently interject here please.

Though I am a new arrival here, I can see there are those who are unkind and vicious.

I think if we admonish their fallen behaviors using unkind language,we are falling into the trap they set in wanting us to drop in any degree to their level.

We see what they are. We read what speaks from within them.
That tells us what they are. And are not.
I think if we speak their language in retort, they win.

And our word thus spoken won't ever change them. But they can for the moment they're written out, appear to change us.

Give the enemy his due.

Stay in The Light

 

[Magenta]

Proverbs 26 v 4-5