Calvinism is Gospel !
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Thats out of context. That was strictly to Gods already redeemed chosen people, nothing to do with spiritual life
Just curious, shouldn't the cross bigger than the David star?Did you see my wink?
Should not take what I said so seriously.
I also heard negative origin of that star. Just be careful.
Freewill arminians who deny total depravity love to go haphazardly get Joshua 24:15
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
But they fail miserably to study the context, they just cherry pick,
But here is the break down:
From a strict Sovereign Grace perspective, Joshua 24:15 ("And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve...") has absolutely nothing to do with a natural man's spiritual ability to save himself. Joshua 24:15 [1]
Arminians and free-will advocates love to quote this verse as a slogan to prove that humans have total free will to choose God. However, when you look at the text through a Sovereign Grace lens, their argument completely falls apart for three major reasons: [1]
1. The Audience is Already Externally Covenant-Bound (Not Spiritually Dead Heathens)
Joshua is not standing outside a graveyard preaching a gospel of regeneration to spiritually dead sinners, telling them how to get born again.
2. The Choice is Between Two Forms of False Religion
Look closely at what choices Joshua actually gives them in the verse:
"choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell..."
Joshua does not say, "Choose by your own free will whether to be regenerated by the True God or stay dead in sin." He says, "If you are going to be idolaters, pick which idols you want to serve! Will it be the old Egyptian idols or the local Amorite idols?"
The choice is between two evils, which perfectly demonstrates the natural man's bound will—left to himself, he will only choose different flavors of sin and false religion. [1]
3. Joshua’s Explicit Conclusion: "Ye Cannot Serve the Lord"
The absolute "checkmate" of this passage happens just four verses later. The people eagerly reply to Joshua, "Oh, we will choose to serve the Lord!"
Look at Joshua’s immediate, devastating response in Joshua 24:19: [1, 2]
"And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the Lord: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God..."
Joshua directly tells them that they do not possess the inherent ability to serve the Lord because of their fallen, unholy nature. He completely denies their free-will capacity. [1, 2]
Summary Verdict
To a Sovereign Grace believer, Joshua 24:15 is a passage about the inability of man, not his power. Joshua uses holy sarcasm and a strict challenge to show the people that without a divine change of heart, they will always default to idols because their natural minds are at enmity against God (Romans 8:7). [1]
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
But they fail miserably to study the context, they just cherry pick,
But here is the break down:
From a strict Sovereign Grace perspective, Joshua 24:15 ("And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve...") has absolutely nothing to do with a natural man's spiritual ability to save himself. Joshua 24:15 [1]
Arminians and free-will advocates love to quote this verse as a slogan to prove that humans have total free will to choose God. However, when you look at the text through a Sovereign Grace lens, their argument completely falls apart for three major reasons: [1]
1. The Audience is Already Externally Covenant-Bound (Not Spiritually Dead Heathens)
Joshua is not standing outside a graveyard preaching a gospel of regeneration to spiritually dead sinners, telling them how to get born again.
- He is speaking to national Israel, a people who had already been sovereignly rescued from Egypt by the power of God.
- They were already in the Promised Land.
- Therefore, this is a call to national and practical reformation, not spiritual salvation from hell. [1]
2. The Choice is Between Two Forms of False Religion
Look closely at what choices Joshua actually gives them in the verse:
"choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell..."
Joshua does not say, "Choose by your own free will whether to be regenerated by the True God or stay dead in sin." He says, "If you are going to be idolaters, pick which idols you want to serve! Will it be the old Egyptian idols or the local Amorite idols?"
The choice is between two evils, which perfectly demonstrates the natural man's bound will—left to himself, he will only choose different flavors of sin and false religion. [1]
3. Joshua’s Explicit Conclusion: "Ye Cannot Serve the Lord"
The absolute "checkmate" of this passage happens just four verses later. The people eagerly reply to Joshua, "Oh, we will choose to serve the Lord!"
Look at Joshua’s immediate, devastating response in Joshua 24:19: [1, 2]
"And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the Lord: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God..."
Joshua directly tells them that they do not possess the inherent ability to serve the Lord because of their fallen, unholy nature. He completely denies their free-will capacity. [1, 2]
Summary Verdict
To a Sovereign Grace believer, Joshua 24:15 is a passage about the inability of man, not his power. Joshua uses holy sarcasm and a strict challenge to show the people that without a divine change of heart, they will always default to idols because their natural minds are at enmity against God (Romans 8:7). [1]
Didn't Peter rebuke anania and wife of lying to holy spirit?
I believe in sovereign God, but man also has responsibility. That to me is a mystery.
Possible because we are limited on this life. There are things we will understand better when seeing Jesus face to face.
I believe in sovereign God, but man also has responsibility. That to me is a mystery.
Possible because we are limited on this life. There are things we will understand better when seeing Jesus face to face.
“Spiritual deadness” makes the non-believer morally incapable to reconcile himself to God on his own.
The fallen man cannot wash away his own sins for him to restore his dead spirit.
The ancient Christianity of Gnosticism believed man required a “divine spark”.
This idea is paralleled by Augustine – and his ardent follower John Calvin carried it forward.
So that is a problem... then...
In James 1:14-15, it states, “But each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.”
Paul writes in Romans 7:9-10, “I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me.”
Yet, Calvinists teach that we are born dead already.
Clearly, the analogy of “death” can carry with it different connotations, none of which can be shown by the text to mean “total inability” from birth.
Always enjoy the literal interpretation when required, that the corpse can only refuse the offer to be saved however the corpse cannot accept.
So is it really a corpse.
I am not an arminians nor do I know any so I had no idea they use that verse a lot - I was simple maing a joke to amuse myself at the stupidity of tupip, but I get why they would use that verse since it seems to be a trigger for Calvanist lol
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
But as many as received him, <---- choice - what man does
to them gave he power to become the sons of God, <---- They can not become sons of God on their own they require divine help to change their lives
But as many as received him, <---- choice - what man does
to them gave he power to become the sons of God, <---- They can not become sons of God on their own they require divine help to change their lives
Anyway, Happy 4th to y'all 
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When Adam and Eve ate of the tree they died spiritually that day and it came from choice. But they did not die physically, they didn't die physically for 100s of years later.
Spiritual death could also be called moral death, it is to do with responsibility, morals and ethics.
Did they have any choice whether they died physically? No, there was no choice in the physical realm. Adam by his sin brought physical death to the human race. We all die physically whether we are saved or not.
All the judgements by God on Adam and Eve are physical curses, no free will curses, and no references to Adams children.
It was Augustine who like Calvinist today couldn't differentiate between moral choices and the physical and brought the belief into the church that we inherit both choice death and physical death. so called original sin
Spiritual death could also be called moral death, it is to do with responsibility, morals and ethics.
Did they have any choice whether they died physically? No, there was no choice in the physical realm. Adam by his sin brought physical death to the human race. We all die physically whether we are saved or not.
All the judgements by God on Adam and Eve are physical curses, no free will curses, and no references to Adams children.
It was Augustine who like Calvinist today couldn't differentiate between moral choices and the physical and brought the belief into the church that we inherit both choice death and physical death. so called original sin
Funny.....
So from where will God gather the 144,000? Mars?
“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
Why are you discussing irresistible grace with someone who says she is not a Calvinist?
Definitely, I am careful to stay away from pagan stuff.
God is Holy, so we should be Holy. God can not be mocked.
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