Calvinism is Gospel !

[pinebeach]

They love their lies, though! They have nothing else to prop up their eisegesis. They even
claim divine intervention is not required in the process of coming to believe, which is as
far from Scripture truth as one can possibly get, and when they run around repeatedly
telling us how unfair it would be of God if He were to reveal Himself in any way different
from one person to the next, it looks like they have not read the Bible at all, and yet
they put themselves forward as some kind of researcher extraordinaire and want
others to listen to them as if they were a teacher that should be heeded.

Really Magenta?

And you, you don't love your lies? What exactly is it you are trying to accomplish by changing scripture to suit your own purpose?

 

[pinebeach]

He only resurrects some of the dead, he is a very selective, preferential god <<<< forgot that part.

I am not at all bothered by the claims of the actual Calvinists here because the Bible says what it says no matter how much people misunderstand. I think there is something much darker going on here.

 

[PennEd]

I have learned a lot about subversive techniques used, how to employ cherry picked verses, use eisegeis, use faulty hermeneutics, ask

loaded questions, mine for verses to support presuppositions and more.

But that eventually reaches its limit.

Thank you for confessing your tactics!

I for one forgive you.

 

[pinebeach]

Mike Winger always goes the extra mile and presents a very solid scriptural response and his presentations are well thought out.

The very fact there is a "calvinist" interpretation says a lot.

His research is bar none. He is meticulous to the point of being almost 'boring.' Have you seen any of his videos wherein he exposes the false prophets and lying prophets at Bethel and other 'churches' and how they are propped up by the very people who should expose them?

I don't know where you stand on this 'Apostolic Reformation', but you don't sound like you would fall for it.

We are in a very dark place as far as Christianity goes and no light is too small when it comes to showing the lies and the harm that is done and the people being used to cause that harm.

 

[pinebeach]

Yes it is, The God of scripture shows preference to His Chosen ones, always has, like here Deut 7:6-7

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Again Ps 147:19-20

19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the Lord.

Wow are you ever old! Maybe you can tell us what it was like to travel with Moses and what it was like when the commandments were first given.

What did you think of the golden calf and how angry Moses was that he smashed the original tablets upon which God had written the 10 commandments?

Wow! Just wow! Who knew................

 

[pinebeach]

Does anyone actually learn anything from these threads? Or change their doctrine ? Or is just a bunch of people sticking their fingers in their ears and going lalalalalalala ?

Actually, I have learned alot in this forum and the various threads. But then, I have an inquisitive nature, really like Bible study and I also find this forum is a great microcosim in the observation of human kind. This alone, really supports the truth of scripture.

 

[HeIsHere]

His research is bar none. He is meticulous to the point of being almost 'boring.' Have you seen any of his videos wherein he exposes the false prophets and lying prophets at Bethel and other 'churches' and how they are propped up by the very people who should expose them?

I don't know where you stand on this 'Apostolic Reformation', but you don't sound like you would fall for it.

We are in a very dark place as far as Christianity goes and no light is too small when it comes to showing the lies and the harm that is done and the people being used to cause that harm.

I know a little about it, I think they also abuse scripture from what I have read.
Yes, the church has been subverted in many ways, I see such a change over the years.

 

[HeIsHere]

I am not at all bothered by the claims of the actual Calvinists here because the Bible says what it says no matter how much people misunderstand. I think there is something much darker going on here.

Yes @Genez reminds of that all the time, yes I need to remember that!!

 

[HeIsHere]

The study of scripture does not create the doctrine that is represented by 'tulip' as you state plainly above. I don't think we are responsible for people claiming otherwise or insisting the cart is actually pulling the donkey. I responded to a post last night in which I clearly showed how only a few words in one of those pictures were used, misrepresented, twisted and 'used' for a purpose that is not indicative of seeking only the truth and a desire to live by said truth. You find it in post 3149, at the beginning and it reads 'dead in transgressions' Eph. 2:5.

Three words used to totally misrepresent what Paul is saying. Now having been accused of lying multiple times, I question how the person responsible for this obvious dereliction of truth and misrepresention of scripture can construct deliberate and misdirecting flagrant posts while claiming others are doing what she is actually doing!

This, is what Paul is actually saying, from my post 3151.

Ephesians 2:5 has been misquoted. It does not say mankind is dead in transgressions.

It actually says

4 God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,

5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved

So God does not leave us dead. He is rich in mercy because of the great love He has for us and so He has made us ALIVE together
with Christ. We are saved by God's grace.

God raised Jesus from the dead and He has made us alive in Christ. Jesus and US are made alive together by the grace of God.

Why would someone do this? Actually try to get away with making God out to be someone He is not? Does she think that hiding all the mistruths in a picture will make them hidden? They are not hidden from God. I have not examined the rest of the so called references, but I suspect the one I did look up, is not alone.

I mean wake up people! Do you lie about the Bible and only put tidbits of verses out to create a false and harmful picture of God?
Then again, considering how 'hidden' this is in a disarming (well to some) picture that has been constructed for the sole purpose of carrying the weight of the Bible in a false 'charm' you would have to understand the implications of doing such a thing.

I think it is done on purpose. Yeah yuh thinK? Oh yeah. I do think so. Absolutely.

So, if you are so convinced of your opinions of scripture, that parallell the doctrine of Calvinism, why do you challenge the truth and put together intricate pictures woven with things from the internet and declare others are liars and blasphemers and the numerous other dark things that have nothing to do with God, but are accusations from your own machinations?

There is room for misinterpretation but there is no room for posting your own ideas of how scripture should read according to your own beliefs that even Calvin would declare to be untrue.

Yes I need to go back, I missed quite a few posts the last few days.

 

[pinebeach]

I know a little about it, I think they also abuse scripture from what I have read.
Yes, the church has been subverted in many ways, I see such a change over the years.

Scripture is out the window with these people. It's 'revelation' and 'prophecy'. Error upon error

 

[HeIsHere]

I mean wake up people! Do you lie about the Bible and only put tidbits of verses out to create a false and harmful picture of God?
Then again, considering how 'hidden' this is in a disarming (well to some) picture that has been constructed for the sole purpose of carrying the weight of the Bible in a false 'charm' you would have to understand the implications of doing such a thing.

I think it is done on purpose. Yeah yuh thinK? Oh yeah. I do think so. Absolutely.

Such a good reminder!!

 

[GWH]

Does anyone actually learn anything from these threads? Or change their doctrine ? Or is just a bunch of people sticking their fingers in their ears and going lalalalalalala ?

We are going to find out, because I just started a thread on What folks have learned via CC.

 

[Roger316]

Wut?

Sorry, check out 1 Corinthians 3, where Paul refers to himself as the foundation builder. I should have given a fuller explanation.

 

[HeIsHere]

The study of scripture does not create the doctrine that is represented by 'tulip' as you state plainly above. I don't think we are responsible for people claiming otherwise or insisting the cart is actually pulling the donkey. I responded to a post last night in which I clearly showed how only a few words in one of those pictures were used, misrepresented, twisted and 'used' for a purpose that is not indicative of seeking only the truth and a desire to live by said truth. You find it in post 3149, at the beginning and it reads 'dead in transgressions' Eph. 2:5.

Three words used to totally misrepresent what Paul is saying. Now having been accused of lying multiple times, I question how the person responsible for this obvious dereliction of truth and misrepresention of scripture can construct deliberate and misdirecting flagrant posts while claiming others are doing what she is actually doing!

This, is what Paul is actually saying, from my post 3151.

Ephesians 2:5 has been misquoted. It does not say mankind is dead in transgressions.

It actually says

4 God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,

5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved

So God does not leave us dead. He is rich in mercy because of the great love He has for us and so He has made us ALIVE together
with Christ. We are saved by God's grace.

God raised Jesus from the dead and He has made us alive in Christ. Jesus and US are made alive together by the grace of God.

Why would someone do this? Actually try to get away with making God out to be someone He is not? Does she think that hiding all the mistruths in a picture will make them hidden? They are not hidden from God. I have not examined the rest of the so called references, but I suspect the one I did look up, is not alone.

I mean wake up people! Do you lie about the Bible and only put tidbits of verses out to create a false and harmful picture of God?
Then again, considering how 'hidden' this is in a disarming (well to some) picture that has been constructed for the sole purpose of carrying the weight of the Bible in a false 'charm' you would have to understand the implications of doing such a thing.

I think it is done on purpose. Yeah yuh thinK? Oh yeah. I do think so. Absolutely.

So, if you are so convinced of your opinions of scripture, that parallell the doctrine of Calvinism, why do you challenge the truth and put together intricate pictures woven with things from the internet and declare others are liars and blasphemers and the numerous other dark things that have nothing to do with God, but are accusations from your own machinations?

There is room for misinterpretation but there is no room for posting your own ideas of how scripture should read according to your own beliefs that even Calvin would declare to be untrue.

Just read again, I just really have to accept this, so more than a reminder.

It really goes the core of the warnings Jesus gives us in scripture.
Sometimes I would get a "not good" feeling with those biblical texts mishandled like that, and I would shrug it off but I think I have to be more discerning.

 

[Roger316]

The study of scripture does not create the doctrine that is represented by 'tulip' as you state plainly above. I don't think we are responsible for people claiming otherwise or insisting the cart is actually pulling the donkey. I responded to a post last night in which I clearly showed how only a few words in one of those pictures were used, misrepresented, twisted and 'used' for a purpose that is not indicative of seeking only the truth and a desire to live by said truth. You find it in post 3149, at the beginning and it reads 'dead in transgressions' Eph. 2:5.

Three words used to totally misrepresent what Paul is saying. Now having been accused of lying multiple times, I question how the person responsible for this obvious dereliction of truth and misrepresention of scripture can construct deliberate and misdirecting flagrant posts while claiming others are doing what she is actually doing!

This, is what Paul is actually saying, from my post 3151.

Ephesians 2:5 has been misquoted. It does not say mankind is dead in transgressions.

It actually says

4 God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,

5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved

So God does not leave us dead. He is rich in mercy because of the great love He has for us and so He has made us ALIVE together
with Christ. We are saved by God's grace.

God raised Jesus from the dead and He has made us alive in Christ. Jesus and US are made alive together by the grace of God.

Why would someone do this? Actually try to get away with making God out to be someone He is not? Does she think that hiding all the mistruths in a picture will make them hidden? They are not hidden from God. I have not examined the rest of the so called references, but I suspect the one I did look up, is not alone.

I mean wake up people! Do you lie about the Bible and only put tidbits of verses out to create a false and harmful picture of God?
Then again, considering how 'hidden' this is in a disarming (well to some) picture that has been constructed for the sole purpose of carrying the weight of the Bible in a false 'charm' you would have to understand the implications of doing such a thing.

I think it is done on purpose. Yeah yuh thinK? Oh yeah. I do think so. Absolutely.

So, if you are so convinced of your opinions of scripture, that parallell the doctrine of Calvinism, why do you challenge the truth and put together intricate pictures woven with things from the internet and declare others are liars and blasphemers and the numerous other dark things that have nothing to do with God, but are accusations from your own machinations?

There is room for misinterpretation but there is no room for posting your own ideas of how scripture should read according to your own beliefs that even Calvin would declare to be untrue.

Dead in transgressions doesn't refer to inability as some claim; it refers to the penalty of sin, i.e. sentenced to eternal punishment.

 

[Roger316]

I think the non-TULIPist are just trying to show the flaws in the system, logically, scriptural etc.,.

People do abandon the system, there are plenty of testimonies on social media... it takes a certain type of person for that to occur and I will leave that there.

But this truly is a type of "programming" for those who are firmly entrenched, so we are probably wasting our time.

Yes good reminder, I have far more important things to get to and playing this game of Whack O Mole is past its prime and they have nothing new to offer but the same ole tired use of eisegesis.

This is why I tend to discuss passages in context rather than support one system or another.

 

[GWH]

@GWH :
AI assisted synthesis

---

Part 2: The Sovereign Grace Replacement Creed (The TULIP Creed)
To answer their challenge, you can present this TULIP-aligned, Monergistic creed based strictly on the absolute sovereignty of God:

1. The Sovereign and Discriminating Jehovah: There is one sovereign, holy, and just God (Deut 6:4), who does whatever pleases Him in heaven and on earth (Psa 115:3). His saving love is not a blanket, helpless wish, but a discriminating, covenantal love reserved for His elect remnant, whom He chose in Christ before the foundation of the world purely according to the good pleasure of His will (Eph 1:4-5, Rom 11:5-7).
2. Total Depravity and Inability: All human beings are born completely dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1). The unregenerate mind is in total enmity against God, is not subject to His law, and possesses no spiritual free will or moral capacity to choose, seek, or please God (Rom 8:7-8, Rom 3:11). Left to themselves, all men justly deserve and willingly march toward eternal damnation.
3. Particular and Particular Redemption: Jesus Christ is the incarnate Son of God and the True Israel (Isa 49:3). His atoning death on the cross was a flawless, penal substitution that actually, legally, and permanently put away the iniquities of His people alone (Matt 1:21, Isa 53:5-6). He did not pay for a single sin of those who end up in hell; rather, He successfully purchased full, irreversible justification and eternal redemption for His chosen sheep (John 10:11, Heb 8:12).
4. Sovereign, Monergistic Regeneration: Because dead sinners cannot "decide" to believe (Rom 8:8), the Holy Spirit must first perform a sovereign, irresistible miracle of regeneration. God takes away the heart of stone and gives a heart of flesh (Ezek 36:26), making the elect completely willing in the day of His power (Psa 110:3). Faith and repentance are the immediate, inevitable fruits of this new birth, given exclusively to those ordained to eternal life (Acts 13:48, Eph 2:8).
5. Preservation and Perseverance of the Saints: Salvation does not depend on human cooperation or man's ability to maintain his faith. Those whom God has chosen, Christ has bought, and the Spirit has regenerated are kept securely by the power of God (1 Pet 1:5). Christ will lose none of those the Father gave Him (John 6:39). Their perseverance in holiness is guaranteed because God continuously works in them both to will and to do of His good pleasure (Phil 2:13).
6. The Ultimate Purpose: The Praise of His Grace: The gospel is not a human rescue plan centered around man's choices, but a divine theater designed exclusively to the praise of the glory of His sovereign grace (Eph 1:6). Any doctrine that suggests God is indebted to man, or that man's free will makes the ultimate decision in salvation, denies grace entirely, turns salvation into a debt (Rom 11:6, Rom 4:4), and presents a false, man-centered gospel.

---

Thanks for the tulipist (not AI?) creed containing all positive statements that can be compared with this creed containing all positive/constructive statements:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey (Phil. 3:12, 1John 1:8) His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).
6. This creed summarizes revelation of the NT Gospel/Truth (Matt. 26:13, John 14:6), which fulfilled the OT revelation (Matt. 5:17, John 19:30, Heb. 7:11-10:10) and culminates the search for salvation by souls who know only general revelation (Rom. 1:20, 2:14-16, Matt. 7:12). Seeking begins when souls love truth/repent of false beliefs (2Thes. 2:10&13, Matt. 4:17, 7:7), which is the Way to eternal life God wills, who is the Lord Jesus (Matt. 7:14, John 1:14, 4:24, 14:6). Lacking this love leads to believing lies and debauchery (Matt. 7:6, Rom. 1:18&25-26, 2Thes. 2:11-12).

So, who would like to begin making a systematic and dialectical comparison?

 

[Magenta]

Really Magenta?

And you, you don't love your lies? What exactly is it you are trying to accomplish by changing scripture to suit your own purpose?

What lies are you telling about me now? You have lied about me a number of times over the years
under various names... and here you are again saying I add to Scripture, another one of your endless
lies. I guess you are unaware of the fact that there are various translations? And that people quote
a verse and then say something about it? I bet you do that too if you even ever quote Scripture, but
your hypocrisy must tell you I am not allowed to do the very same thing, and I know how much my
Scriptural opinion is hated among your kind. Yeah, I am familiar with you and your type.

 

[Roger316]

Does anyone actually learn anything from these threads? Or change their doctrine ? Or is just a bunch of people sticking their fingers in their ears and going lalalalalalala ?

Speaking for myself, I rarely change my mind but it does happen. I gain the most benefit from the process of defending my position. I force myself to take the other person seriously and remind myself that I might be wrong. So I am best when I take the time to investigate the issue before I respond. Sometimes I check with my Bible teacher. "Do I have this right?"

 

[pinebeach]

Just read again, I just really have to accept this, so more than a reminder.

It really goes the core of the warnings Jesus gives us in scripture.
Sometimes I would get a "not good" feeling with those biblical texts mishandled like that, and I would shrug it off but I think I have to be more discerning.

Understanding changes when truth is revealed and accepted. We are responsible for more than we think.