Saved by faith alone?

[Wansvic]

As I said, the early church (Acts 2) followed the physical water baptism.

Jesus will baptize us with the Holy Spirit and fire!

John's water baptism was fulfilled by Jesus because John came before Jesus.

Water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin is NOT John's baptism. It is a NT command that is still in effect and will continue to be so until Jesus returns. See Luke 24:47.

 

[Wansvic]

Luke 3:16
John answered and said to them all, “As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I,
and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

It is so obvious.

Tradition rules Christianity regardless of what the scripture plainly states.

Repentance, John's water baptism, and some of the sacraments, that is modern Christianity.

Who needs the Holy Spirit?

Both water baptism in the name of Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost are essential elements of the NT rebirth as witnessed directly in scripture. (Act 2:4, 33-42, 8:12-18, 10:43:48, 19:1-7, 22:16...)

 

[Wansvic]

I wonder?
Have you ever heard of the Apostle Paul?

Here is what Paul had to say about water baptism in relation to what it is to be now since we have entered the Church age.
In Paul's day there were still guys like you around that were troublemakers. Trouble for those wanting to learn how to grow in grace and truth, rather than doing rituals that were no longer needed.

Paul stated that he was not sent to baptize but to preach the gospel, and he only baptized a few individuals to avoid confusion and division among the believers (1 Corinthians 1:17). His focus was on spreading the message of grace rather than performing baptisms.

Paul baptized only a few, so you guys would put your shotguns down, and allow him to teach what was really need.

.

.

Paul was still preaching water baptism in the name of Jesus some 20+ years after the initial command was given at Pentecost.

And, in regards to 1 Cor. 1:27 context matters. Paul's primary ministry was not to do the water baptizing. A thorough study bears this out.

 

[Genez]

baptism ain't a work!

you can't baptize yourself!

thks

we do increase the free gift of grace by good works

thks

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, ​

which God prepared in advance for us to do.​

Ephesians 2:10

 

[Genez]

Does the phrase, "saved by faith" equivalent to the term, "saved by faith alone"?

It says we are saved by Grace - Through faith.

​

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, ​

it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.​

​

Ephesians 2:8-9​

Grace made us to stand up and walk, and then God hands us a sword (faith).

 

[Genez]

Paul was still preaching water baptism in the name of Jesus some 20+ years after the initial command was given at Pentecost.

And, in regards to 1 Cor. 1:27 context matters. Paul's primary ministry was not to do the water baptizing. A thorough study bears this out.

1 Corinthians was one of the earliest epistles Paul wrote.
That was 20 years later?

 

[Genez]

what church?

the apostolic church has always instructed neophytes and baptized them in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit! as mt 28:19 says

thks

No one became a new creation in Christ until Pentecost. There was no church before that.

Jesus was called "rabbi" for good reason. His earthly walk was one of the perfect Rabbi teaching Jews in
a way to show Jews how it was to be done.

 

[Genez]

baptism ain't a work!

you can't baptize yourself!

thks

we do increase the free gift of grace by good works

thks

Was that a work when you wrote that?

 

[Lamar]

It says we are saved by Grace - Through faith.

​

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, ​

it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.​

​

Ephesians 2:8-9​

Grace made us to stand up and walk, and then God hands us a sword (faith).

Is there an answer to the question in your comment?

 

[amazingrace]

The power of sacramental deception. Again, false religion turns signs and symbols of salvation into the substance and the source.

Hebrews 10:22 reads - let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. *Notice the order. It is the sprinkling (with the Blood of Christ- Hebrews 9:14; I Peter 1:2) which touches the heart. The washing of pure water affects the body. Paul was careful to distinguish between an outward circumcision, which was of the flesh (Romans 2:28-29) and an inward circumcision, which was of the heart.

The true child of Abraham (and therefore the true Christian) has the inward circumcision of the heart, not only the outward, which is accomplished by the "sprinkling of the blood of Christ" (I Peter 1:2), not by a washing in water in the ordinance of water baptism. Hence, as Peter said - "not the removal of the dirt from the flesh" but the answer of a good conscience toward God. Through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 3:21)

so just like ignore baptism!

and Christ! mk 16:16

and the teaching authority of Christ in His Church! mt 28:19

thks

 

[amazingrace]

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, ​

which God prepared in advance for us to do.​

Ephesians 2:10

the purpose of creation?

to know love and serve God!

thks

 

[amazingrace]

No one became a new creation in Christ until Pentecost. There was no church before that.

Jesus was called "rabbi" for good reason. His earthly walk was one of the perfect Rabbi teaching Jews in
a way to show Jews how it was to be done.

everything is made new for everyone in the new covenant

thks

 

[mailmandan]

so just like ignore baptism!

and Christ! mk 16:16

and the teaching authority of Christ in His Church! mt 28:19

thks

I don't ignore baptism. I simply put water baptism in its proper place. Subsequent to salvation as all works must be. (Acts 10:43-48; Ephesians 2:8,9) I have been water baptized and have not not ignored Christ or His teaching authority in His Church, which is the body of Christ. (Colossians 1:18, 24)

 

[ATG]

No one became a new creation in Christ until Pentecost. There was no church before that.

False.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

His disciples believed in His resurrection, confessed Him Lord and God, worshipped Him, and recieved His Spirit.

None had yet been baptized with the promised Holy Ghost, until Pentecost, by Whom Peter first preached the gospel of Jesus Christ.

On Pentecost the church was first endued with power, and began fulfilling the call of ministering Jesus Christ to the world.

Jesus was called "rabbi" for good reason. His earthly walk was one of the perfect Rabbi teaching Jews in
a way to show Jews how it was to be done.

And He was confessed both Lord and God for good reason. By His resurrection from the dead, the Lord Himself gives His promised Spirit witness His life and to preach His gospel to all.

 

[Inquisitor]

what is the fire?

thks

What the Holy Spirit performs on us during our Christian life a process of pruning, refining, purification.

Zechariah 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested.

 

[Lamar]

The power of sacramental deception. Again, false religion turns signs and symbols of salvation into the substance and the source.

Hebrews 10:22 reads - let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. *Notice the order. It is the sprinkling (with the Blood of Christ- Hebrews 9:14; I Peter 1:2) which touches the heart. The washing of pure water affects the body. Paul was careful to distinguish between an outward circumcision, which was of the flesh (Romans 2:28-29) and an inward circumcision, which was of the heart.

The true child of Abraham (and therefore the true Christian) has the inward circumcision of the heart, not only the outward, which is accomplished by the "sprinkling of the blood of Christ" (I Peter 1:2), not by a washing in water in the ordinance of water baptism. Hence, as Peter said - "not the removal of the dirt from the flesh" but the answer of a good conscience toward God. Through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 3:21)

The power of faulty reasoning. Again, false religion turns generalities and abstractions into theology and all-encompassing notions.

 

[Inquisitor]

you forgot the cathars & albigensians!

thks

Appreciate all input.

When the church gains political power it becomes a very dangerous machine.

 

[Inquisitor]

the church has authority with Christ (mt 28:18-20) to proclaim truth and condemn errors

the state has authority to execute justice (rom 13)

thks

Does the church have authority over unbelievers?

Does the church love it's enemies?

Is the church as gentle as a dove?

Is the church managed by the Holy Spirit or the clergy?

 

[Inquisitor]

You neglected to include my entire post. Again, the scriptures below reveal the command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin and the need to receive the Holy Ghost was instituted for all those living in the New Testament:

"It is no coincidence that both water baptism in the name of Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost are involved in all detailed conversion accounts.

Acts 2:38-39 (Jews)
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans-half Jewish-half Gentile)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women....
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:43-48 (Gentiles)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who who had to be water baptized in Jesus name)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."

Is the book of Acts the source of doctrine?

Is Luke a chosen apostle?

Is Luke's account of the early church an accurate account?

If you are a Gentile then the only source for primary doctrine will be the apostle to the Gentiles.

Not Luke, Matthew, or Mark.

 

[mailmandan]

The power of faulty reasoning. Again, false religion turns generalities and abstractions into theology and all-encompassing notions.

False religion isolates pet verses, distorts and perverts passages of scripture in an effort to "patch together" an erroneous gospel plan, instead of reading scripture in context and properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching its conclusion on doctrine.