Saved by faith alone?

[maximc]

It says they were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4

......

According to Psalm 69:28, everyone is chosen before the foundation of the world. It is only when people disbelieve, their names are blotted out from the book of life.

 

[PaulThomson]

Speaking in a foreign language in church requires someone interpret, or don't use it. 1 Corinthians 14:27-28

Do you know what aqueous means? Do you know what monotonous means? Do you know what courageous means? Do you know what an aeon is? Do you know the koine Greek word aiOn means? Do you know what the koine Greek phrase translated by many as eternal or everlasting life is? Surely you can work our from those facts what aeonous in aeonous life means. ….


…. If not, it means age-long or age-enduring, or as Young’s Literal Translation renders it, age-during. Sometimes clarity of communication requires the invention of new words.

 

[Genez]

According to Psalm 69:28, everyone is chosen before the foundation of the world. It is only when people disbelieve, their names are blotted out from the book of life.

Psalm 69 is about a horrible time for David being disciplined by God for some horrendous sin.
Possibly for what he had done with Bathsheba and having her husband killed in battle.

The ones he spoke of in verse 28 being blotted out were fellow Israelites who were treating him horribly.
Unbelievers can not be 'botted' out.
Why?

When a name gets "blotted" out.
It is not about losing salvation.

"Name" was used also to refer to a title believers will receive for having done God's will for our lives.
With that title comes also rewards.

Yes... Title. That is why He is called King of kings.

.

 

[Genez]

The concept of salvation did not exist in the OT. The OT saints just believed in the unknown Messaiah which qualified them to be saved. When Samuel told Saul that he would be with him, it did not mean salvation. It meant physical death.

How did Samuel appear as? Nothing? His soul was living on.

Job 19:25 tells me you have a few things yet to learn.

 

[Genez]

The OT saints just believed in the unknown Messaiah which qualified them to be saved.

Don't you know that means salvation?

 

[Genez]

Do you know what aqueous means? Do you know what monotonous means? Do you know what courageous means? Do you know what an aeon is? Do you know the koine Greek word aiOn means? Do you know what the koine Greek phrase translated by many as eternal or everlasting life is? Surely you can work our from those facts what aeonous in aeonous life means. ….


…. If not, it means age-long or age-enduring, or as Young’s Literal Translation renders it, age-during. Sometimes clarity of communication requires the invention of new words.

Something tells me you need to find a forum designed for exegetes.

 

[PaulThomson]

Something tells me you need to find a forum designed for exegetes.

Not everyone here is an eisegete. I think exegesis works well for forum members here who are willing to let biblical texts speak for themselves. Though many seem to prefer duelling proof-texts gleaned from their favourite ear-ticklers.

 

[Inquisitor]

If you had to stand before the Lord today, would you point to your works, or would you point to Jesus Christ alone?

That's a powerful question.

What would your boast be on that last day?

 

[Inquisitor]

Not everyone here is an eisegete. I think exegesis works well for forum members here who are willing to let biblical texts speak for themselves. Though many seem to prefer duelling proof-texts gleaned from their favourite ear-ticklers.

It depends on which Biblical texts you favor.

Romans 10:13
For “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

That is one of my favorite verses.

 

[DavidLamb]

The concept of salvation did not exist in the OT. The OT saints just believed in the unknown Messaiah which qualified them to be saved. When Samuel told Saul that he would be with him, it did not mean salvation. It meant physical death.

Salvation certainly was known in the Old Testament. Just a few examples:

(2Sa 22:2) And he said: "The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
(2Sa 22:3) The God of my strength, in whom I will trust; My shield and the horn of my salvation, My stronghold and my refuge; My Savior, You save me from violence.

(Psa 18:46) The LORD lives! Blessed be my Rock! Let the God of my salvation be exalted.

(Isa 12:2) Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; 'For YAH, the LORD, is my strength and song; He also has become my salvation.' "

(Zec 9:9) "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.

There are a great many other Old Testament references to salvation, especially in the Psalms.

 

[DavidLamb]

According to Psalm 69:28, everyone is chosen before the foundation of the world. It is only when people disbelieve, their names are blotted out from the book of life.

Psalm 69:28 says:

(Psa 69:28) Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous.

Where does that verse, or any other verse, say that everybody without exception is chosen before the foundation of the world? To say that everybody was chosen for salvation makes nonsens of these words of Paul, written to the Christians in Ephesus:

(Eph 1:3-6) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

 

[maximc]

Psalm 69:28 says:

(Psa 69:28) Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous.

Where does that verse, or any other verse, say that everybody without exception is chosen before the foundation of the world? To say that everybody was chosen for salvation makes nonsens of these words of Paul, written to the Christians in Ephesus:

(Eph 1:3-6) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Even though everyone is chosen from the foundation of the world, not everyone believes in Jesus. So, when Paul refers to the Christians that they were chosen before the foundation of the world, he was saying that they availed the blessings which was already ordained before the foundation of the world. The rest of the world actually forfeited their blessings because of their unbelief.

 

[DavidLamb]

Even though everyone is chosen from the foundation of the world, not everyone believes in Jesus. So, when Paul refers to the Christians that they were chosen before the foundation of the world, he was saying that they availed the blessings which was already ordained before the foundation of the world. The rest of the world actually forfeited their blessings because of their unbelief.

How about some Bible references to support what you say? Also, how is it a choosing, if it involves everybody without exception? Also, Paul does not say that all were chosen, but only Christians availed themselves of that choice.

 

[mailmandan]

That's a powerful question.

What would your boast be on that last day?

Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

 

[GWH]

Our good works are an evidence that we are walking with the Lord. If we do not cooperate with the Holy Spirit, then we won't be doing any good works. Good works are an act of cooperation with the Holy Spirit. Read John 10:37-38

Yes, although atheists can imitate godly works without glorifying the One whose power makes moral rules/loving right/golden rather than merely pyrite suggestions.

 

[GWH]

The concept of salvation did not exist in the OT. The OT saints just believed in the unknown Messaiah which qualified them to be saved. When Samuel told Saul that he would be with him, it did not mean salvation. It meant physical death.

Well, the NT concept of salvation was merely foreshadowed in the OT--a gleam in some prophets' eyes, so to speak.

 

[Wansvic]

We have a problem here Wansvic.

Please read this post carefully.

You used the phrase "the Word of God" the "Word" means Jesus Christ not a N.T that did not exist, when these letters
were written.

Many seem to think that when they see "the word" that the author is signifying the N.T and that also may not be correct.

There are actually three different Greek expressions that English translations often render as "the word", and they do not
always mean the same thing.

ὁ Λόγος (ho Logos) – "the Word" as a title for Christ (John 1:1, 1:14; 1 John 1:1; Revelation 19:13).

A capital W is appropriate because it is a person.

ὁ λόγος (ho logos) – literally "the message," "the saying," "the account," "the statement," "the speech," or "the matter."

This is by far the most common use. It does not automatically mean Scripture or the New Testament.


When Paul's letters, Acts, and the Gospels were being written, there was no completed New Testament canon.

Therefore, whenever Paul says things like "the word of God" or "the word of Christ," he cannot be referring to a bound
New Testament as we know it today.

I will let AI complete this post due to the lack of time available to step through the occurrences of "the word". In the N.T
or similar phrases.

Instead, the context usually points to one of these:

the gospel being preached,
God's spoken message,
the apostolic proclamation,
Christ's own teaching,
or, occasionally, the Old Testament Scriptures.

Below are several places where English translations may encourage readers to think of the Bible when the Greek probably
points elsewhere.

Reference Common translation Possible contextual rendering
Acts 6:2 the word of God the message of God
Acts 6:7 the word of God increased God's message spread
Acts 8:4 preached the word proclaimed the message
Acts 8:14 received the word of God received God's message
Acts 10:36 the word the message sent to Israel
Acts 11:1 received the word of God accepted God's message
Acts 12:24 the word of God grew God's message spread
Acts 13:5 proclaimed the word of God proclaimed God's message
Acts 13:26 this word of salvation this message of salvation
Acts 13:44 hear the word of God hear God's message
Acts 14:3 spoke the word spoke the message
Acts 15:7 hear the word of the gospel hear the gospel message
Acts 17:11 received the word received the message
Acts 18:11 taught the word of God taught God's message
Acts 19:10 heard the word heard the message
Acts 20:32 the word of His grace the message of His grace

Paul uses the expression similarly.

Reference Common translation Likely meaning
Romans 10:8 the word of faith the message of faith
Romans 10:17 hearing by the word of Christ hearing through Christ's message
1 Corinthians 1:18 the word of the cross the message of the cross
1 Corinthians 2:1 excellency of speech ("word") eloquent speech
2 Corinthians 5:19 committed unto us the word of reconciliation the message of reconciliation
Galatians 6:6 taught in the word taught in the message
Ephesians 1:13 the word of truth the message of truth
Ephesians 5:26 with the word with His spoken word/message
Ephesians 6:17 the word of God God's spoken message
Philippians 2:16 the word of life the message of life
Colossians 1:5 the word of the truth the true message
Colossians 3:16 let the word of Christ dwell in you let Christ's message dwell in you
1 Thessalonians 1:6 received the word received the message
1 Thessalonians 2:13 the word of God which you heard from us God's message that you heard from us
2 Thessalonians 3:1 the word of the Lord the Lord's message

The General Epistles are similar.

Reference Possible rendering
James 1:21 receive the implanted message
James 1:22 be doers of the message
1 Peter 1:23 through the living and abiding message of God
1 Peter 2:8 disobey the message
1 John 2:5 whoever keeps His message
Hebrews 4:2 the message they heard
Hebrews 4:12 the word of God (here the context may genuinely refer to God's living utterance rather than simply Scripture)
John is different

John deliberately uses ὁ Λόγος ("the Word") as a title.

John 1:1
John 1:14
1 John 1:1 ("the Word of life")
Revelation 19:13 ("His name is called The Word of God")

Here, the capitalization is appropriate because "the Word" is a divine person, Jesus Christ.

A general observation

Reading the New Testament in its own historical setting, many instances of "the word" are probably better understood as "the message" or "the gospel message." This avoids an anachronism in which modern readers unconsciously substitute "the New Testament" into passages written before such a collection existed.

For example:

"The word of the cross" (1 Corinthians 1:18) naturally means the message about Christ's crucifixion.

"The word of faith" (Romans 10:8) means the message of faith that Paul was preaching.

"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly" (Colossians 3:16) is naturally understood as let Christ's teaching
and message dwell in you, since Paul was writing before the New Testament canon had been completed.

So while not every occurrence should be changed, a substantial number of lower-case "the word" passages could be translated more transparently as "the message," "the proclamation," "the teaching," or "the gospel," depending on the immediate context. This better reflects the range of the Greek word logos and the historical context in which the New Testament documents were written.

End AI.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

You specifically asked:

How about you explain what "inspired" means first so that we are on the same page?

My answer still stands, "It is God's revelation given through human authors whom He directed by His Spirit. God sovereignly guided each writer so that the finished writings communicated exactly what He intended. This is why Scripture can honestly be called both the Word of God and the writings of men."
the meaning of inspiration. And the answer is scripture is fully God's Word faithfully recorded through human writers

 

[GWH]

You specifically asked:

My answer still stands, "It is God's revelation given through human authors whom He directed by His Spirit. God sovereignly guided each writer so that the finished writings communicated exactly what He intended. This is why Scripture can honestly be called both the Word of God and the writings of men."
the meaning of inspiration. And the answer is scripture is fully God's Word faithfully recorded through human writers

both-and

 

[Wansvic]

You can have a dip and not a plunge according to the meaning of baptizo.

You have taken an early physical, ritual cleansing of John and turned it into a major doctrine.

I prefer to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and with fire as Jesus baptizes.

It is scripture that reveals water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is not a continuation of John's baptism of repentance. John's baptism prepared people for the coming Messiah. (Matt. 3:11; Acts 19:4). After Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, the apostles proclaimed a different baptism—one administered in the name of Jesus Christ because of His completed sacrifice.

On the Day of Pentecost, Peter did not command John's baptism. He said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38). This baptism identifies the believer with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection (Rom. 6:3-4; Col. 2:12), something John's baptism could never accomplish because Christ had not yet died.

Acts 19:1-5 makes the distinction unmistakable. When Paul met disciples in Ephesus who had received only John's baptism, he explained that John's baptism pointed people to believe on Jesus. Upon hearing this, they were baptized again, this time "in the name of the Lord Jesus." Their rebaptism demonstrates that John's baptism and New Testament baptism were not the same.

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is an essential element of the New Testament rebirth. It is part of God's revealed response to the gospel, along with repentance and the need to receive the Holy Ghost as well. (Acts 2:38; Titus 3:5; John 3:5).

 

[Lamar]

While walking with the Lord demonstrates a relationship with the Lord, it is not necessarily evidence of flawless theology. Walking with the Lord requires a relationship with the Lord and not on perfect theological knowledge.

Do not play coy and do not twist my words.

I did not express the need for "flawless theology" nor "perfect theological knowledge".

How about this:

If good works are evidence of walking with God is walking with God evidence of salvation?