Calvinism is Gospel !

[Roger316]

I am surprised to hear, that you have never heard that, Aionion was in the here and now.

It's just that I have never run across a passage where the term is used to speak about the current age; I was talking about what the New Testament calls the Age of Ages.

 

[GWH]

You are saying that the only free will would be omnipotent will.

This is not how people define free will in humans.

Free will means the ability to make choices, not the ability to fly.

Yes, and the ability to choose to make airplanes.

 

[Roger316]

Seeing Eternal Life as explain in the Scripture, by using a Word Study out of God’s word.

“…who will not get back very much more in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.” (Luke 18:30, NRSV) *eternal life here is in the future

“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God’s wrath.” (John 3:36, NRSV) *Whoever is believing in the Son has eternal life so it is clear that in some respect a believer already possesses or has eternal life

“Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life.” (John 5:24, NRSV)
*One who is a believer not only HAS eternal life, but HAS PASSED from death to life in the past

“Very truly, I tell you, whoever believes has eternal life.” (John 6:47, NRSV)

“Fight the good fight of the faith; take hold of the eternal life, to which you were called and for which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.” (1Tim 6:12, NRSV) *There is ‘the eternal life’ that we are to take hold of, in context seems the fullness of life lived in Christ in obedience to the gospel.

“We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” (1John 3:14-15, RSV) *Those who love the brethren have the evidence that they have passed into life, in the past; but no murder has eternal life abiding in him.
[The BDAG on “abiding” here – “The possession is shown to be permanent by the expr. ἔχειν τι μένον ἐν ἑαυτῷ have someth. continually, permanently 1J 3:15”

“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.” (John 10:10, NRSV)

The Arminian Methodist Joseph Benson has an excellent comment on this verse
“And that they might have it more abundantly — A life more abundant than that which was lost and forfeited by sin; more abundant than that which was promised by the law of Moses; more abundant than could have been reasonably expected, or than we are able to ask or think; that whatever measure of spiritual life in union with God, through Christ, of conformity to his image, or participation of his nature, we may have received, we may still desire and expect larger measures thereof; or to whatever degrees of holiness and usefulness we may have attained and manifested, we may still proceed to higher degrees, preparing and qualifying us for still higher degrees of future glory.” [I'm a strict Calvinist, but I do gain knowledge and helps from some Methodist men of God out of the past.]

Thanks for your scripture reference. The Luke 18 passage is helpful to see what I was saying about how the phrase eternal life can refer to the next age,

 

[Jon777]

All those views hold the same belief in man inheriting a sin nature, whereas I believe we develop a sin nature after we are born, so I am in neither camp

Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Wayne, there are other passages to consider on this question.

Indeed, I was born guilty, a sinner when my mother conceived me. (Ps 51:5, NRSV)

When Adam had lived one hundred thirty years, he became the father of a son in his likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth. (Gen 5:3, NRSV)

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? No one can. (Job 14:4, NRSV)

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned— (Rom 5:12, NRSV)

All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else. (Eph 2:3, NRSV)

 

[Jon777]

You are saying that the only free will would be omnipotent will.

This is not how people define free will in humans.

Free will means the ability to make choices, not the ability to fly.

People educated in biblical theology know the difference between “free agency” and “free will”.

In classical Christian theology (especially Reformed theology), the basic difference is:

• Free agency: the capacity to make voluntary, self-determined choices according to one’s own nature and desires.
• Free will (in the technical, historic sense): the further ability to choose equally between good and evil, including the power to choose God and spiritual good apart from effectual grace.

So:

• All humans are free agents: they are not coerced from outside; they choose what they most want and are morally responsible for those choices.
• But after the Fall, in Lutheran and Reformed/Augustinian theology, humans do not have free will in the stronger sense: their nature is so corrupted by sin that, apart from regeneration, they cannot choose God or truly spiritual good; they will, by necessity of their sinful nature, choose against God.

 

[WayneNSO]

Wayne, there are other passages to consider on this question.

Indeed, I was born guilty, a sinner when my mother conceived me. (Ps 51:5, NRSV)

When Adam had lived one hundred thirty years, he became the father of a son in his likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth. (Gen 5:3, NRSV)

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? No one can. (Job 14:4, NRSV)

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned— (Rom 5:12, NRSV)

All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else. (Eph 2:3, NRSV)

Let me address two of the references you gave, and show you my thinking behind not inheriting sin.

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
This is saying his mother was a sinner when she concieved him

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The wages of sin is death - it is this physical death Adam brought to the human race.

All the judgements by God on Adam and Eve are physical curses, no free will curses, and no references to Adams children.
Although Adam and Eve died Spiritually or you could say morally, choice or moral death was not transfered to their children.

 

[WayneNSO]

Wayne, there are other passages to consider on this question.

Indeed, I was born guilty, a sinner when my mother conceived me. (Ps 51:5, NRSV)

When Adam had lived one hundred thirty years, he became the father of a son in his likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth. (Gen 5:3, NRSV)

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? No one can. (Job 14:4, NRSV)

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned— (Rom 5:12, NRSV)

All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else. (Eph 2:3, NRSV)

I thought Id stop posting in this thread since it seems I have spent a lifetime on it lol So I am not pleased you brought me back into it lol

 

[PennEd]

According to Rom. 10:13-17, it is the preaching of the gospel that builds the faith of the person which causes the person to choose Christ. Is that not a free will?

It is the preaching of the Gospel that ACTIVATES the faith that God gifted you.

Ephesians refers to this as being quickened.

 

[Cameron143]

You are saying that the only free will would be omnipotent will.

This is not how people define free will in humans.

Free will means the ability to make choices, not the ability to fly.

That's not what I'm saying. God is omnipotent, but there are things He cannot do. He is limited by His nature. He cannot choose to sin.

Likewise, man is limited by his nature. So is the fallen natural man. He is limited both physically and spiritually.

One can say that the natural does not reveal truth concerning God and the things unseen...the spiritual, but the Bible says otherwise in Romans 1. As such, I believe the way God authored physical birth teaches about the spiritual birth.

 

[Cameron143]

Except for you and the other calvies.

Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL.

John 3:16, acts 16:31. SO simple, yet confusing for the elites.

We have addressed this before. If God administers the gospel equally amongst all people, why have huge swaths of people throughout history never heard of Jesus or the salvation He offers?

 

[HeIsHere]

Except for you and the other calvies.

I see this so clearly now, they put in place so many ways to block salvation

and they get their ire up when you expose their true beliefs and falsely accuse, tell us we do not understand their esoteric special doctrine.

Their god hates the people he did not shed his blood for on the cross, they have admitted this many times over the years.

 

[WayneNSO]

I see this so clearly now, they put in place so many ways to block salvation

and they get their ire up when you expose their true beliefs and falsely accuse, tell us we do not understand their esoteric special doctrine.

Their god hates the people he did not shed his blood for on the cross, they have admitted this man times over the years.

Lies lies lies you're getting my dander up

 

[HeIsHere]

It's just that I have never run across a passage where the term is used to speak about the current age; I was talking about what the New Testament calls the Age of Ages.

Perish, destruction are not about hell or being annihilated either, they are also terms about real world consequences for not believing in/trusting in the Good News of Christ Jesus.

 

[PennEd]

According to 2 Pet. 3:9 and 1 Tim. 2:4, God wants everyone to be saved which implies that God is willing to draw everyone towards him, but why aren't everyone getting saved? Because of "Unbelief".

Yup.

And why do they have unbelief?

Why do YOU believe, and others don’t?

That’s the whole ballgame of what we’re talking about.

 

[PennEd]

If number 1 is true. Does that mean Adam had to eat the forbidden fruit? No free will no choice right?

Adam had free will before he fell.

Every single person born of him, after he fell, was born in ADAMS fallen, spiritual condition.

 

[WayneNSO]

Adam had free will before he fell.

Every single person born of him, after he fell, was born in ADAMS fallen, spiritual condition.

But gods judgments on Adam and Eve says nothing about a spiritual condition only the physical

 

[HeIsHere]

I thought Id stop posting in this thread since it seems I have spent a lifetime on it lol So I am not pleased you brought me back into it lol

Yes same here, they refuse to come into the light about the plan of salvation.

I doubt there is anything more anyone can say.

They have a way of manipulating text to support their doctrine, it is impossible to get past the schooling/inculcation they have received.

 

[WayneNSO]

Yes same here, they refuse to come into the light about the plan of salvation.

I doubt there is anything more anyone can say.

They have a way of manipulating text to support their doctrine, it is impossible to get past the schooling/inculcation they have received.

This is very true and what's that verse about wiping the dust of your feet if they wont listen ?

 

[WayneNSO]

I posted on that 70 weeks thread instead today but then someone decided to quote me and ask me a question here - they wont let us go - they must love us really lol

 

[HeIsHere]

But after the Fall, in Lutheran and Reformed/Augustinian theology, humans do not have free will in the stronger sense: their nature is so corrupted by sin that, apart from regeneration, they cannot choose God or truly spiritual good; they will, by necessity of their sinful nature, choose against God.

In 412 Augustine birthed this deterministic theology influenced by his former Gnosticism Manicheanism and Neo Platonism .