A description of the New Testament church of Christ from scripture

[Beckworth]

Jesus said, “I will build MY church…” in Matthew 16:18. It belongs to Him. It is HIS church. He is the HEAD of His church—not some man, board, council, convention, or other organization. Eph. 5:23, Col. 1:18.

Jesus claims to have ALL AUTHORITY both in heaven and ON EARTH. Matt. 28:18. No one on earth has the authority to CHANGE what God has said in His word. God has spoken, and men and culture cannot change what God has said; that does not mean they have not tried—and are still trying. Revelation 22:18-19 gives a warning to those who try to “add to” or “take away from” what God has said; specifically saying God will take away your name from the Book of Life.

That being said, the first thing we notice about the congregations of churches in the New Testament is that they are called “churches of Christ” in keeping with what Jesus said in Matt. 16:18 and Eph.5:23. Romans 16:16

1st century Christians were warned not to “forsake” the assembling of themselves together in Hebrews 10:25. God expected them to engage in “worship.”
There are five acts of worship in which we see Christian’s engaging or were specifically commanded.
1) singing - Eph. 5:19, Col. 3:16 we are to “admonish and teach one another” singing with grace in our hearts to the Lord.
2) Praying - pray without ceasing, 1 Thess. 5:17. We are told to pray for many things— the sick, the brethren, kings and those in authority, just to name a few.
3) preaching or studying the word of God. Acts 20:7 - when the Church assembled on the first day of the week ( Sunday for us), Paul preached to them. In Col. 4:16, we see that the epistles that came from Paul and the other writers were passed around and were to be read in all the churches—presumably when they were assembled together.
4) the Lord’s Supper - In Acts 20:7 the early church came together on the first day of the week to partake of the Lord’s Supper.
5) Giving - Paul commaned all of the churches to “lay by as they have been prospered, on the first day of the week.” He called this the “collection for the saints.”

1 Cor. 14 gives us more information about the churches in the New Testament. It has to do with spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit which were necessary in the early church because they had no written Bible to guide them as we do. They had to depend on the Holy Spirit to guide them into all truth. How else could they know what to do? Or what God wanted? But there were very specific rules for these gifts and limitations placed on certain things and people. The first thing to notice is that these instructions are for the church when it is assembled together. See verses 23 and 26. The main point is in verse 40; “LET ALL THINGS BE DONE DECENTLY AND IN ORDER!” Paul says God is NOT the author of CONFUSION! Verse 33. He says, if a visitor comes into your assembly and you are all talking at the same time, speaking in tongues and prophesying, they will think you are mad or out of your mind! The prophets were to prophesy one at the time and if one is speaking, the others need to keep silent! “You can all prophesy one by one.” Verse 3. And NO one is to speak in a tongue UNLESS there is someone there who can interpret that tongue. You see, spreading in tongues was not for “show”! It served a purpose for edification.

The Holy Spirit says in verse 34 that women in the church assembly were to “KEEP SILENT”. “For they are NOT PERMITTED to speak.” Verse 35- “It is SHAMEFUL for women to speak in the church.” Those are not my words. That is not my command. That is what God says. That is what the Holy Spirit teaches. There are many “loopholes” used to try to get around these verses, but Paul says, in the VERY NEXT VERSE, “…the things that I write to you are the COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD.” And in chapter 4:17 - “…who will remind you of my ways in Christ, AS I TEACH EVERYWHERE IN EVERY CHURCH.” This was not instruction just for the church at Corinth. This letter was to be read in all the churches.

Time and space do not permit us to go on into the New Testament pattern for the organization and work of the church. But suffice it to say that God has not left his church up to men to make it into whatever pleases him. God left us instructions and a pattern of what He wants. There are commandments to be obeyed, and “an order” to be followed. We do not have permission from God to make the church into something according to our thought and wishes. It is not to be used for ENTERTAINMENT” as if we need to improve on God’s plan. It was to be used for the edification and benevolence of the saints.

Denominationalism can be so confusing. It is confusion. How can we know what is right and what God wants or what God will accept? We must go back to the Bible. See the kind of church God made for Christians in the first century. There still is a church of Christ just like the one in the New Testament existing today. One that just sings, prays, preaches God’s word and takes the Lord’s supper and gives on the first day of the week. Whose women keep silent in the assembly. Investigate the church of Christ—both in the Bible and the ones existing today.

 

[tablet123]

John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

Πέτρος Pétros, pet'-ros; apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle:—Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

Stone here for Peter is a piece of rock.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

πέτρα pétra, pet'-ra; feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):—rock.

The interpretation for Peter being called a stone it is a piece of rock.

For people that think when Jesus said upon this rock I will build my Church that He was speaking about Peter this rock is interpreted as a mass of rock not a piece of rock.

The same interpretation as Christ being the spiritual Rock.

And of course Jesus is the chief cornerstone so all the Church is built upon Him.

If it is speaking of Peter it would mean he was the first person added to the Church and then the rest of the saints are built upon him.

But since Peter being interpreted a piece of rock and rock in Matthew is mass of rock then it has to be Christ.

For how can Peter be a mass of rock being a mere mortal man.

 

[Cameron143]

John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

Πέτρος Pétros, pet'-ros; apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle:—Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

Stone here for Peter is a piece of rock.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

πέτρα pétra, pet'-ra; feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):—rock.

The interpretation for Peter being called a stone it is a piece of rock.

For people that think when Jesus said upon this rock I will build my Church that He was speaking about Peter this rock is interpreted as a mass of rock not a piece of rock.

The same interpretation as Christ being the spiritual Rock.

And of course Jesus is the chief cornerstone so all the Church is built upon Him.

If it is speaking of Peter it would mean he was the first person added to the Church and then the rest of the saints are built upon him.

But since Peter being interpreted a piece of rock and rock in Matthew is mass of rock then it has to be Christ.

For how can Peter be a mass of rock being a mere mortal man.

Read the whole passage in Matthew 16 again. Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ. Jesus responds by saying Peter is blessed because he knew this not of himself...flesh and blood, but because the Father had revealed it to him. Then Jesus pronounces that upon this rock...the revelation of Himself by the Father will the church be built.

Peter isn't the rock being spoken of. Neither is Jesus. Neither is Peter's profession of faith. The rock that the church is built on is the revelation of the Father of the person and work of Christ.

The evidence of this is faith in Christ.

 

[Beckworth]

John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

Πέτρος Pétros, pet'-ros; apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle:—Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

Stone here for Peter is a piece of rock.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

πέτρα pétra, pet'-ra; feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):—rock.

The interpretation for Peter being called a stone it is a piece of rock.

For people that think when Jesus said upon this rock I will build my Church that He was speaking about Peter this rock is interpreted as a mass of rock not a piece of rock.

The same interpretation as Christ being the spiritual Rock.

And of course Jesus is the chief cornerstone so all the Church is built upon Him.

If it is speaking of Peter it would mean he was the first person added to the Church and then the rest of the saints are built upon him.

But since Peter being interpreted a piece of rock and rock in Matthew is mass of rock then it has to be Christ.

For how can Peter be a mass of rock being a mere mortal man.

I agree. Christ is NOT saying that His church is going to be built on Peter. He is saying that His church is built on Peter’s confession that “Jesus is “the Son of God.” So the ”Rock” is referring to Jesus and His divinity.

 

[GWH]

Jesus said, “I will build MY church…” in Matthew 16:18. It belongs to Him. It is HIS church. He is the HEAD of His church—not some man, board, council, convention, or other organization. Eph. 5:23, Col. 1:18.

Jesus claims to have ALL AUTHORITY both in heaven and ON EARTH. Matt. 28:18. No one on earth has the authority to CHANGE what God has said in His word. God has spoken, and men and culture cannot change what God has said; that does not mean they have not tried—and are still trying. Revelation 22:18-19 gives a warning to those who try to “add to” or “take away from” what God has said; specifically saying God will take away your name from the Book of Life.

That being said, the first thing we notice about the congregations of churches in the New Testament is that they are called “churches of Christ” in keeping with what Jesus said in Matt. 16:18 and Eph.5:23. Romans 16:16

1st century Christians were warned not to “forsake” the assembling of themselves together in Hebrews 10:25. God expected them to engage in “worship.”
There are five acts of worship in which we see Christian’s engaging or were specifically commanded.
1) singing - Eph. 5:19, Col. 3:16 we are to “admonish and teach one another” singing with grace in our hearts to the Lord.
2) Praying - pray without ceasing, 1 Thess. 5:17. We are told to pray for many things— the sick, the brethren, kings and those in authority, just to name a few.
3) preaching or studying the word of God. Acts 20:7 - when the Church assembled on the first day of the week ( Sunday for us), Paul preached to them. In Col. 4:16, we see that the epistles that came from Paul and the other writers were passed around and were to be read in all the churches—presumably when they were assembled together.
4) the Lord’s Supper - In Acts 20:7 the early church came together on the first day of the week to partake of the Lord’s Supper.
5) Giving - Paul commaned all of the churches to “lay by as they have been prospered, on the first day of the week.” He called this the “collection for the saints.”

1 Cor. 14 gives us more information about the churches in the New Testament. It has to do with spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit which were necessary in the early church because they had no written Bible to guide them as we do. They had to depend on the Holy Spirit to guide them into all truth. How else could they know what to do? Or what God wanted? But there were very specific rules for these gifts and limitations placed on certain things and people. The first thing to notice is that these instructions are for the church when it is assembled together. See verses 23 and 26. The main point is in verse 40; “LET ALL THINGS BE DONE DECENTLY AND IN ORDER!” Paul says God is NOT the author of CONFUSION! Verse 33. He says, if a visitor comes into your assembly and you are all talking at the same time, speaking in tongues and prophesying, they will think you are mad or out of your mind! The prophets were to prophesy one at the time and if one is speaking, the others need to keep silent! “You can all prophesy one by one.” Verse 3. And NO one is to speak in a tongue UNLESS there is someone there who can interpret that tongue. You see, spreading in tongues was not for “show”! It served a purpose for edification.

The Holy Spirit says in verse 34 that women in the church assembly were to “KEEP SILENT”. “For they are NOT PERMITTED to speak.” Verse 35- “It is SHAMEFUL for women to speak in the church.” Those are not my words. That is not my command. That is what God says. That is what the Holy Spirit teaches. There are many “loopholes” used to try to get around these verses, but Paul says, in the VERY NEXT VERSE, “…the things that I write to you are the COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD.” And in chapter 4:17 - “…who will remind you of my ways in Christ, AS I TEACH EVERYWHERE IN EVERY CHURCH.” This was not instruction just for the church at Corinth. This letter was to be read in all the churches.

Time and space do not permit us to go on into the New Testament pattern for the organization and work of the church. But suffice it to say that God has not left his church up to men to make it into whatever pleases him. God left us instructions and a pattern of what He wants. There are commandments to be obeyed, and “an order” to be followed. We do not have permission from God to make the church into something according to our thought and wishes. It is not to be used for ENTERTAINMENT” as if we need to improve on God’s plan. It was to be used for the edification and benevolence of the saints.

Denominationalism can be so confusing. It is confusion. How can we know what is right and what God wants or what God will accept? We must go back to the Bible. See the kind of church God made for Christians in the first century. There still is a church of Christ just like the one in the New Testament existing today. One that just sings, prays, preaches God’s word and takes the Lord’s supper and gives on the first day of the week. Whose women keep silent in the assembly. Investigate the church of Christ—both in the Bible and the ones existing today.

The only item in the list regarding Heb. 10:25 should be 1. Encourage one another.
Verses 23-24 indicate that the encouragement should include perseverance in hope (of heaven = saving faith, not to commit apostasy), love and good deeds.

Regarding worship we should note Rom. 12:1-2: It consists of cooperating with GW or surrendering to Christ.

Regarding women, they are not a necessary evil. In Paul's time they were viewed that way, but he indicated that they are no different in value than males in Gal. 3:28.

 

[Beckworth]

The only item in the list regarding Heb. 10:25 should be 1. Encourage one another.
Verses 23-24 indicate that the encouragement should include perseverance in hope (of heaven = saving faith, not to commit apostasy), love and good deeds.

Regarding worship we should note Rom. 12:1-2: It consists of cooperating with GW or surrendering to Christ.

Regarding women, they are not a necessary evil. In Paul's time they were viewed that way, but he indicated that they are no different in value than males in Gal. 3:28.

I don’t think Paul or the Holy Spirit ever viewed women as “a necessary evil”. They simply serve in a different capacity from men. Just as a servant of Christ is no less in value than a pastor; but the pastor (elder) has responsibilities and a work that the average Christian does not have. That does not make one less loved or valued than the other. Scriptures teach that women are equal in worth, dignity, and value before God; they are just different in their roles and responsibilities. Our place as a servant of God is not to try to second guess Him; but to honor Him by obeying His word. Paul’s teaching about women keeping silent in the church is NOT teaching his own views, but rather, he says, “ the things I teach are THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD. 14:37. He is reaching what the Holy Spirit is giving him. We have no idea what Paul’s personal views were about women. It doesn’t matter what Paul thought about women—what matters is what the Holy Spirit says in verse 34.

 

[GWH]

I don’t think Paul or the Holy Spirit ever viewed women as “a necessary evil”. They simply serve in a different capacity from men. Just as a servant of Christ is no less in value than a pastor; but the pastor (elder) has responsibilities and a work that the average Christian does not have. That does not make one less loved or valued than the other. Scriptures teach that women are equal in worth, dignity, and value before God; they are just different in their roles and responsibilities. Our place as a servant of God is not to try to second guess Him; but to honor Him by obeying His word. Paul’s teaching about women keeping silent in the church is NOT teaching his own views, but rather, he says, “ the things I teach are THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD. 14:37. He is reaching what the Holy Spirit is giving him. We have no idea what Paul’s personal views were about women. It doesn’t matter what Paul thought about women—what matters is what the Holy Spirit says in verse 34.

I am glad we agree that women are a necessary partner, and I believe "one flesh" marriage indicates shared ministry, so the wife of a deacon is a deaconess and the wife of a pastor is a pastoress. (Of course, I guess that would make the husband of a governess a govern, so we need to draw the line somewhere :^)

Arriving at the correct understanding of the role of women involves discerning what part of Paul's perception of God's will was due to 1st century cultural mores and how much shared eternal morality. My guess is that in society's that have been somewhat Christianized God calls both men and women to ministry, and there will be many Deborahs, Marthas and Priscillas in heaven.

 

[Beckworth]

I am glad we agree that women are a necessary partner, and I believe "one flesh" marriage indicates shared ministry, so the wife of a deacon is a deaconess and the wife of a pastor is a pastoress. (Of course, I guess that would make the husband of a governess a govern, so we need to draw the line somewhere :^)

Arriving at the correct understanding of the role of women involves discerning what part of Paul's perception of God's will was due to 1st century cultural mores and how much shared eternal morality. My guess is that in society's that have been somewhat Christianized God calls both men and women to ministry, and there will be many Deborahs, Marthas and Priscillas in heaven.

I agree with most of What you say. However, the HolY Spirit spoke the words in verseS 14 and 15 and God has never based his laws on what CULTURE dictates or what culture decides is right or wrong. Our culture says that homosexuality is acceptable to God but God’s word says it is not. Our culture says it is acceptable to God for women to speak in the assembly and even preach if they want to, but God says, it is NOT acceptable. His word is eternal and no man, or convention or “culture” can ever change that. God’s word stands as a testimony to what God will accept or won’t. Remember that Jesus said HE has ALL AUTHORITY both in heaven and on earth. He has not given any authority to the Pope, the Southern Baptist Convention Or any other man-made council, board or committee to CHANGE what He has written in His book. I was happy that the S.B. Convention went along with what the scriptures say; but it really made no difference whether they did or not. It does not change what God says. And just like the issue of homosexuality, people will do what they want to do, regardless of what the Holy Spirit says.

There are always “consequences” to every decision we make, whether good or bad. If we choose to honor and obey what God says in His word, then God says He will bless us abundantly; both in this life and the one to come. But if we choose to disregard what the Holy Spirit has spoken, we no longer have the Holy Spirit in us and unless we repent, we bring on ourselves eternal destruction.

 

[Beckworth]

I am glad we agree that women are a necessary partner, and I believe "one flesh" marriage indicates shared ministry, so the wife of a deacon is a deaconess and the wife of a pastor is a pastoress. (Of course, I guess that would make the husband of a governess a govern, so we need to draw the line somewhere :^)

Arriving at the correct understanding of the role of women involves discerning what part of Paul's perception of God's will was due to 1st century cultural mores and how much shared eternal morality. My guess is that in society's that have been somewhat Christianized God calls both men and women to ministry, and there will be many Deborahs, Marthas and Priscillas in heaven.

Yes, women can minister in their own role as a woman, but there are certain restrictions that God has placed on them. Going strictly by what the scriptures say, 1) women can teach children as Eunice and Lois taught young Timothy from the time he was a child.
2) women can teach other women as the Holy Spirit has told the older women to teach the younger women.
3) wonen may teach men in an evangelistic effort in a “private” not “public” setting as Pricilla and Aquila taught Appolis in Acts 19.

But here are the restrictions that God has placed on wonen teachers.
“But I do NOT permit a woman to teach or HAVE AUTHORITY OVER A MAN, but to be in SILENCE. 1 Tim. 2:12. God gives His reason for doing this in verses 13-14. Because Adam was made FIRST, and Adam was not deceived but Eve WAS. I may not understand all of why God did this, but God says His ways are not my ways and his ways are higher than the heavens compared to my ways. Therefore, I will trust Him, and Love Him, and honor Him by doing what He says—regardless of my own thoughts about it. “Submission” is a huge part of this teaching. Verse 11 - Let a woman learn in SILENCE with ALL SUBMISSION.” This is when a man is teaching, as the next verse explains. This is in a public setting as in a church service because 1 Cor. 14:34 and 35 says that if she wants to ask a question, she is to ask her husband AT HOME. The idea is women are not to speak out in an assembly of the church where there are men present. She is not to have “authority” over a public class of both men and women as the teacher of the class or the “preacher” of the church. That idea i is not only foreign to the scriptures but strictly forbidden by God.

 

[GWH]

I agree with most of What you say. However, the HolY Spirit spoke the words in verseS 14 and 15 and God has never based his laws on what CULTURE dictates or what culture decides is right or wrong. Our culture says that homosexuality is acceptable to God but God’s word says it is not. Our culture says it is acceptable to God for women to speak in the assembly and even preach if they want to, but God says, it is NOT acceptable. His word is eternal and no man, or convention or “culture” can ever change that. God’s word stands as a testimony to what God will accept or won’t. Remember that Jesus said HE has ALL AUTHORITY both in heaven and on earth. He has not given any authority to the Pope, the Southern Baptist Convention Or any other man-made council, board or committee to CHANGE what He has written in His book. I was happy that the S.B. Convention went along with what the scriptures say; but it really made no difference whether they did or not. It does not change what God says. And just like the issue of homosexuality, people will do what they want to do, regardless of what the Holy Spirit says.

There are always “consequences” to every decision we make, whether good or bad. If we choose to honor and obey what God says in His word, then God says He will bless us abundantly; both in this life and the one to come. But if we choose to disregard what the Holy Spirit has spoken, we no longer have the Holy Spirit in us and unless we repent, we bring on ourselves eternal destruction.

Yes, we must discern the difference between eternal moral law and temporary cultural rules.

 

[Beckworth]

Yes, we must discern the difference between eternal moral law and temporary cultural rules.

I would say that anything the Holy Spirit teaches is eternal law. I wouldn’t classify that as “temporary” and “cultural.”

 

[GWH]

I would say that anything the Holy Spirit teaches is eternal law. I wouldn’t classify that as “temporary” and “cultural.”

Untrue! Most of the Mosaic law was temporary, intended to separate the Jewish culture from others until it fulfilled its purpose of providing Messiah for the potential eternal salvation of all humanity.

 

[Beckworth]

Untrue! Most of the Mosaic law was temporary, intended to separate the Jewish culture from others until it fulfilled its purpose of providing Messiah for the potential eternal salvation of all humanity.

I agree. I was thinking more of the New law of Christ.

 

[PaulThomson]

And NO one is to speak in a tongue UNLESS there is someone there who can interpret that tongue.

You are not correct there. Pul said let two or three bring messages in tongues. But, if there was no interpretation forthcoming for those two or three messages in tongues, then no one else was to bring messages in tongues in that meeting.

1Co 14:27
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that bycourse; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speakto himself, and to God.

You cannot know if there is or is not an interpreter present until two or three speak in an unknown tongue and there is or is not an interpretation.

 

[Beckworth]

You are not correct there. Pul said let two or three bring messages in tongues. But, if there was no interpretation forthcoming for those two or three messages in tongues, then no one else was to bring messages in tongues in that meeting.

1Co 14:27
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that bycourse; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speakto himself, and to God.

You cannot know if there is or is not an interpreter present until two or three speak in an unknown tongue and there is or is not an interpretation.

“And that by course” means one at the time. The picture Paul is giving is “orderliness” instead of “confusion!” He has already said that if all are speaking at the same time, whether prophesying or speaking in tongues, a visitor would think they were all mad or had lost their minds. I don’t understand how you can imagine that it’s alright to speak intongues if there is no interpreter present to explain what is said. He specifically says that if there is no one to interpret, then they are to keep silent! It certainly makes no sense whatsoever that God would allow the first 3 people to speak without an interpreter but then not allow anymore. Why? For what reason? That is a mis-interpretation of what Paul said.

The Spirit says verse 2 , “ no one understands a person who speaks in a tongue.” It doesn’t do the church any good unless there is an interpreter. Verse 9, He says you are only “speaking into the air—meaning doing no good at all. He tells the PURPOSE of Spiritual gifts in VERSE 12–they are for the edification of the church. And no one is going to be edified if there is no interpreter for a tongue. That’s why they were to KEEP SILENT. This also proves that the people who could speak in a tongue and the ones who could prophesy had control of that gift because Paul said they had to wait their turn or keep silent. Both of those acts mean that they were in control of the gift—the gift was not in control of them whereby they just spoke out without their consent. . Vastly different than the way churches do it today.
“If anything is revealed to “another” who sits nearby ( someone else is already prophesying), let the first KEEP SILENT! See, he has control of that gift. He can “wait” to speak. What’s the purpose? Verse 31, “ So that ALL may learn and ALL may be encouraged.” The clincher, verse 32 - “The Spirit of the prophets are SUBJECT to the prophets. The gift did not fall on them all of a sudden and take over and cause them to do all kinds of things without their control.
Speaking in tongues was not for “show”. It was not done just to “impress” people with a “show of godliness or “Look! I have a spiritual gift.” It had a purpose that was suppose to benefit the church with teaching and edification.

Finally, what the church of Christ practiced was completely different from what churches today CLAIM to practice in that the
“Tongues” were real languages, according to the scriptures, and not just gibberish. Certainly not glossolalia. Notice verses 10-12 of 1 Cor. 14: Paul is talking about the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues and he says, “ there are so many kinds of LANGUAGES in the world and none of them is without significance. Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the LANGUAGE, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks ( in an unknown tongue) and he shall be a foreigner to me. Even so, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church. “. On the day of Pentecost in Acts 2, the apostles did not speak “glossolalia” when they spoke in tongues; they spoke in LANGUAGES that was unknown to many Jews there but the scripture said that the Jews heard it in their own LANGUAGE! Unknown tongue does not mean “unknown language”. It just simply means a language that is “unknown” to the people hearing it.

 

[GWH]

I agree. I was thinking more of the New law of Christ.

Okay, however, there are a handful of verses which indicate that Paul was concerned about not offending cultural mores.
I can collect them if you doubt this. SPUR

 

[Beckworth]

Okay, however, there are a handful of verses which indicate that Paul was concerned about not offending cultural mores.
I can collect them if you doubt this. SPUR

Yes, I am aware of a few that you may have in mind but, , I’d love to see the ones you are referring to.

 

[GWH]

Rom. 14:13-22, 15:1-2, 1Cor. 8:9, 9:12&19-23, 10:23-33,
Col. 4:5, 1Thes. 4:12, 1Tim. 3:7, 1Pet. 2:12&17, (cf. Col. 2:20-23)

 

[PaulThomson]

“And that by course” means one at the time. The picture Paul is giving is “orderliness” instead of “confusion!” He has already said that if all are speaking at the same time, whether prophesying or speaking in tongues, a visitor would think they were all mad or had lost their minds. I don’t understand how you can imagine that it’s alright to speak intongues if there is no interpreter present to explain what is said. He specifically says that if there is no one to interpret, then they are to keep silent! It certainly makes no sense whatsoever that God would allow the first 3 people to speak without an interpreter but then not allow anymore. Why? For what reason? That is a mis-interpretation of what Paul said.

The Spirit says verse 2 , “ no one understands a person who speaks in a tongue.” It doesn’t do the church any good unless there is an interpreter. Verse 9, He says you are only “speaking into the air—meaning doing no good at all. He tells the PURPOSE of Spiritual gifts in VERSE 12–they are for the edification of the church. And no one is going to be edified if there is no interpreter for a tongue. That’s why they were to KEEP SILENT. This also proves that the people who could speak in a tongue and the ones who could prophesy had control of that gift because Paul said they had to wait their turn or keep silent. Both of those acts mean that they were in control of the gift—the gift was not in control of them whereby they just spoke out without their consent. . Vastly different than the way churches do it today.
“If anything is revealed to “another” who sits nearby ( someone else is already prophesying), let the first KEEP SILENT! See, he has control of that gift. He can “wait” to speak. What’s the purpose? Verse 31, “ So that ALL may learn and ALL may be encouraged.” The clincher, verse 32 - “The Spirit of the prophets are SUBJECT to the prophets. The gift did not fall on them all of a sudden and take over and cause them to do all kinds of things without their control.
Speaking in tongues was not for “show”. It was not done just to “impress” people with a “show of godliness or “Look! I have a spiritual gift.” It had a purpose that was suppose to benefit the church with teaching and edification.

Finally, what the church of Christ practiced was completely different from what churches today CLAIM to practice in that the
“Tongues” were real languages, according to the scriptures, and not just gibberish. Certainly not glossolalia. Notice verses 10-12 of 1 Cor. 14: Paul is talking about the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues and he says, “ there are so many kinds of LANGUAGES in the world and none of them is without significance. Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the LANGUAGE, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks ( in an unknown tongue) and he shall be a foreigner to me. Even so, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church. “. On the day of Pentecost in Acts 2, the apostles did not speak “glossolalia” when they spoke in tongues; they spoke in LANGUAGES that was unknown to many Jews there but the scripture said that the Jews heard it in their own LANGUAGE! Unknown tongue does not mean “unknown language”. It just simply means a language that is “unknown” to the people hearing it.

I agree that the modern charismatic practice of everyone praying together in tongues is not biblical. But speaking in tongues under Holy Spirit inspiration is a gift the Holy Spirit does give to the church, and a gift of interpreting the tongue spoken is another gift. Since the gifts are under the control of the speaker, who can chose to stop himself from speaking, healing, helping etc. sometimes the person to whom the Holy Spirit has given the privilege of interpreting may not be bold enough to bring it forth. Hence, there may be no interpreter in the meeting, and if this is the case, after two or three have spoken in tongues without an interpreter, such tongues should no longer be audibly proclaimed. I also agree that someone could be faking a tongues message to appear spiritual. But since no one understands what they said, we cannot be sure they were faking it. Hence, it is appropriate to give the Holy Spirit three opportunities to give a tongue. The first and/or second ones may be uninterpreted because fake, but the second and or third may be genuine but uninterpreted. So, allowing two or three without interpretation seems to be the best approach. If an interpretation is brought, whether fake or genuine, it is equal to a prophecy, and is judged by the assembly as they would judge any other prophecy, whether it is in line or not with the character of God as revealed in Jesus and the scriptures.

But Paul definitely encouraged speaking in tongues in assemblies, but with at least one edifying interpretation within the first three. And he commanded that we should not forbid speaking in unknown tongues, which it sounds very much like you are doing. But I may be misunderstanding you.

 

[Beckworth]

I agree that the modern charismatic practice of everyone praying together in tongues is not biblical. But speaking in tongues under Holy Spirit inspiration is a gift the Holy Spirit does give to the church, and a gift of interpreting the tongue spoken is another gift. Since the gifts are under the control of the speaker, who can chose to stop himself from speaking, healing, helping etc. sometimes the person to whom the Holy Spirit has given the privilege of interpreting may not be bold enough to bring it forth. Hence, there may be no interpreter in the meeting, and if this is the case, after two or three have spoken in tongues without an interpreter, such tongues should no longer be audibly proclaimed. I also agree that someone could be faking a tongues message to appear spiritual. But since no one understands what they said, we cannot be sure they were faking it. Hence, it is appropriate to give the Holy Spirit three opportunities to give a tongue. The first and/or second ones may be uninterpreted because fake, but the second and or third may be genuine but uninterpreted. So, allowing two or three without interpretation seems to be the best approach. If an interpretation is brought, whether fake or genuine, it is equal to a prophecy, and is judged by the assembly as they would judge any other prophecy, whether it is in line or not with the character of God as revealed in Jesus and the scriptures.

But Paul definitely encouraged speaking in tongues in assemblies, but with at least one edifying interpretation within the first three. And he commanded that we should not forbid speaking in unknown tongues, which it sounds very much like you are doing. But I may be misunderstanding you.

I certainly do not have the power nor the authority to forbid speaking in tongues. However, I CAN use what God says in His word to make an argument either for or against it depending on what the scriptures say about it.

The Holy Spirit definitely taught that speaking in tongues was a temporary situation as opposed to faith, hope, and charity which are lasting. 1 Cor. 13. In verse 8, He says that miraculous prophesying and speaking in tongues and miraculous knowledge will cease, end, stop. Do you believe what the Spirit says here? If you will accept what the Holy Spirit says in verse 8, then all that remains is to figure out WHEN (??) they will stop. Understanding the PURPOSE of spiritual gifts in the first place is helpful in understanding WHEN and WHY they will stop. Verse 9 is the reason they were necessary to the early church. “ For we know IN PART. (Verse 9) Those early churches had no revelation from God written down for all to follow. They were getting revelation from God in small pieces over a long period of time. A little bit here and a little bit there as the Spirt revealed it to them. In parts and pieces. That’s why Paul ordered all of the various epistles to be read in all the churches. That’s how they got their information of what God wanted them to do.
Even their prophesying was “IN PART”, verse 9. None of it was complete. It was ongoing at that time. They needed these spiritual gifts to help them and guide them. The gifts served a purpose. Paul says over and over, they were for edifying ( building up) and encouraging the church—the saints. But he also says they were temporary. He said they WILL STOP. If you accept the words of the Spirit up to this point, then all you and I disagree on is “WHEN” they will end. Verse 10 tells us “WHEN” they will stop. “When that which is perfect is come, then all that which is in part will be done away.” Understanding that last sentence is crucial to understanding when spiritual gifts like prophesying, speaking in tongues, and miraculous knowledge will be done away. Most of the ones I have talked to about this believe that the word “perfect” in that verse means “Christ.” So they assume speaking in tongues will last until the 2nd coming of Christ. I don’t know if this is what you believe or not. I do not believe this because if that were true, then the Holy Spirit used the wrong pronouns. “Which” and “that” usually point out “things” not people. If the Spirit had been referring to the Christ, He woujd have needed to say, “He WHO is perfect” referring to a person, not “that which” is perfect. That which is perfect is referring to a “thing.” Notice also that the word “perfect” is NOT capitalized, which would be unusual if it was referring to the Son of God.

As much as possible, I believe we should let the Bible define itself. We have the word “perfect” used in Romans 12:2. “ …prove what is that good and acceptable and PERFECT WILL OF GOD.” And again in James 1:25, “ But he who looks into the PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY and continues in it…”. This explanation of what the word “perfect” means in 1 Cor. 13 is compatible with the contex of that chapter which was to explain that the revelation of God was not yet “perfect” or complete; they still knew the revelation of God only “in part.” But when they had ALL of God’s revelation complete, then spiritual gifts would no longer be necessary or needed and they would cease.

The 27 books of the cannon of scripture were completed in the 1st century with the final book of Revelation by the apostle John. The apostles passed on such gifts by the laying on of their hands on others. But nothing in the scriptures suggests that anyone having a spiritual gift could “pass it on” , other than an apostle. So when the last apostle died, and the last person who had a spiritual gift died, then the era of spiritual gifts ceased.