The Parable of the Ten Virgins does not refer to the church

[DavidLamb]

They ARE virgins. (who they are)...the church.
Virgins =pure, undefined, set apart.
All 10.
All 10 had oil, lamps, light, were with the strong believers, even sleeping with them, and were waiting onChurch.
They all had that much in order.
All of them.
The game changer was the amount of oil.
The ONLY difference.
No reward for them.
They were carnal believers.
....as we see half the church today.

II don't think we are going to agree on this, so I will leave it there for the moment.

 

[Psalm1]

II don't think we are going to agree on this, so I will leave it there for the moment.

Once the facts are on the table, we procede from there.

 

[Psalm1]

Hardly any translation uses "bridesmaids", in mat 25.
Only the new living translation and a couple others do that.

Just sayin.

 

[GWH]

Are you saying that the foolish virgins were only shut out of the wedding temporarily? The Bridegroom in the parable says that He does not know the five foolish virgins:

(Mat 25:10-12 NKJV) And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. "Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!' But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.'

In John 10, Jesus says that He knows His sheep and they know Him:

(Joh 10:14) NKJV I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.

As for the church containing the bride, and the bride being part of the church, where do we see that? Paul said that husbands should love their wives in the way that Christ loved the church:

(Eph 5:25) Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,

Where are we told that only part of the church is the bride?

And remember also Matt. 7:22-23.

 

[PennEd]

They ARE virgins. (who they are)...the church.
Virgins =pure, undefined, set apart.
All 10.
All 10 had oil, lamps, light, were with the strong believers, even sleeping with them, and were waiting onChurch.
They all had that much in order.
All of them.
The game changer was the amount of oil.
The ONLY difference.
No reward for them.
They were carnal believers.
....as we see half the church today.

The lamps are our souls, minds bodies.

We (humans) are all virgin lamps at the first. At least 3 places in Scripture does God say that our bodies are His temple.

The metaphors are all the same.

Temple
Lamps
House
43“When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44Then he says, ‘I will return to my House from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds itempty, swept, and put in order.

They all mean us. Our soul, mind, body.

So the virgins represent all humanity, saved and unsaved.

Everyone is born with a lamp and a wick.

All wicks can burn for a short time without any oil/fuel. Some might even be able to burn a little longer with a counterfeit fuel that isn’t oil.

NOWHERE in the parable does it say that the foolish virgins (people) EVER had any oil.

Oil is representative all throughout Scripture as the Holy Spirit.

The foolish people never believed in Jesus, and never received the Holy Spirit.

 

[ZNP]

Ok.
Let's look at the "bridesmaids" theory of yours.
We see that word, (actually "virgin"), also Translated in 1 cor 7....3 SEPERATE TIMES.
...as "virgin".

I assume you are reading a NIV.
So, you started your teaching from a handicapped starting place.

By all means, use the KJV. No problem.

 

[ZNP]

Again.
That translation is bad.
No wonder you are seeing a conflict.

I am not saying that the word "Virgin" is being translated as Bridesmaid. What I am saying is that the parable is told in the context of a Galilean wedding. One standard and required approach to reading a parable is to understand what it would mean to those at the time it was spoken. Ten virgins with lamps would be used to light the way to wedding escorting all those who would attend. The context of the story is describing these ten virgins, not as the "Bride" but as the Bridesmaids.

 

[ZNP]

Actually the parable is using believers, not church or feasts systems.
The 5 wise went immediately ito the marriage chamber.

Jesus raptures this intimate bride pretrib, into the marriage described in the last supper dialogue.

The carnal believers face the ac, and "all" are martyred.

Again, referring to the five foolish virgins as "carnal believers" is your interpretative leap. It isn't stated, it isn't even implied. What is stated is "foolish". All of them were virgins, all had lamps that were lit, the issue is that half had bought oil for themselves and had full vessels and the other half assumed they could simply borrow oil from others. Their job was to light lamps for a midnight walk to the wedding. That is what is stated. You can infer that their status is "servants" but to call them generic believers is faulty, especially babes in Christ. No one is going to ask a babe in Christ to light the way in the dark for those going to the wedding.

 

[ZNP]

Okay, I can see from your other posts that you are attempting to draw conclusions from the parable that Jesus didn't intend. This is a mistake that many Bible students make. To answer your question directly, no, Jesus is NOT talking about the church. He is talking about individual believers. The five wise bridesmaids represent Jesus' believers who were prepared to persevere in the faith in light of his extended delay. The five foolish bridesmaids represent Jesus' followers who lose hope while Jesus is gone.

The fact that they are bridesmaids is not relevant. Jesus could have told a story about 10 women waiting for a bus; five remained at the bus stop while five gave up and went home. Only the five wise women who didn't give up were able to ride the bus.

The number for "individual believers" would be 12, their are 12 gates to Jerusalem, 12 Apostles whose names are on each gate, and 12 tribes of Israel (a type of the believers in the church). So then why 10?

 

[ZNP]

They ARE virgins. (who they are)...the church.
Virgins =pure, undefined, set apart.
All 10.
All 10 had oil, lamps, light, were with the strong believers, even sleeping with them, and were waiting onChurch.
They all had that much in order.
All of them.
The game changer was the amount of oil.
The ONLY difference.
No reward for them.
They were carnal believers.
....as we see half the church today.

No. We see a whole lot of "carnal believers" who are not "pure, undefiled and set apart" to Jesus. So the term Carnal is far too broad. If you want to say that "foolish" is a subset of carnal, that is fine. Could be they were distracted, could be they were lazy, whatever.

 

[ZNP]

Hardly any translation uses "bridesmaids", in mat 25.
Only the new living translation and a couple others do that.

Just sayin.

Alfred Edersheim (The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah) gives the most detailed archaeological treatment. He explains that it was customary in the East to carry about ten such lamps in a bridal procession, with ten being the number required for the benedictions accompanying Jewish marriage ceremonies. He's careful to note a nuance often missed: in the parable, the bridegroom is pictured as coming from a distance to the bridal house, so the virgins go out to meet and escort him back to the bridal place, rather than following the more typical pattern of the groom traveling to the bride's home. Christian Classics Ethereal LibraryChristian Classics Ethereal Library


D.A. Carson, cited by GotQuestions.org, describes the fuller sequence: the bridegroom and friends would leave his home for the bride's home for various ceremonies, followed by a nighttime procession through the streets back to the groom's house — the point at which the lamp-bearing bridesmaids would join in to light the way. GotQuestions


John Walvoord, quoted by Thomas Ice, makes a point relevant to your typological interests: he stresses that the text uses none of the terms elsewhere applied to the church, such as bride or body, so the ten virgins should be read as bridesmaids attending the wedding rather than as the bride herself. Blue Letter Bible


A Reformed Theological Seminary sermon on the passage adds color on the procession itself: once the bride was released by her parents, the groomsmen and bridesmaids would join the couple and parade through the darkened streets with their torches lit on the way to the wedding feast. Reformed Theological Seminary


Jesus Film Project's exposition frames the whole scene similarly: the bride and her bridesmaids waited at the bride's home for the groom, usually after dark, expecting a long procession of dancing and celebration leading to the main event. Jesus Film Project


A more devotional but still Galilean-custom-focused source (Group Bible Study) summarizes the bridesmaids' function plainly: the bride's ten virgins were tasked with lighting the way and welcoming the bridegroom and his friends to the wedding location before joining the celebration.

 

[ZNP]

The lamps are our souls, minds bodies.

We (humans) are all virgin lamps at the first. At least 3 places in Scripture does God say that our bodies are His temple.

The metaphors are all the same.

Temple
Lamps
House
43“When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44Then he says, ‘I will return to my House from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds itempty, swept, and put in order.

They all mean us. Our soul, mind, body.

So the virgins represent all humanity, saved and unsaved.

Everyone is born with a lamp and a wick.

All wicks can burn for a short time without any oil/fuel. Some might even be able to burn a little longer with a counterfeit fuel that isn’t oil.

NOWHERE in the parable does it say that the foolish virgins (people) EVER had any oil.

Oil is representative all throughout Scripture as the Holy Spirit.

The foolish people never believed in Jesus, and never received the Holy Spirit.

So all of humanity is waiting for the Lord to return as the bridegroom? The bible is a lamp unto my feet, does this mean that all humanity is using the word of God, the Bible, to light the way for the wedding party? I thought according to all of the New Testament Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

We don't partake of the inheritance of the saints in the light until we are saved.

Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

This verse seems to be a direct reference to this parable. The context of verse 14 is

11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

That eliminates any thought that these ten represent unbelievers.

 

[Psalm1]

The lamps are our souls, minds bodies.

We (humans) are all virgin lamps at the first. At least 3 places in Scripture does God say that our bodies are His temple.

The metaphors are all the same.

Temple
Lamps
House
43“When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44Then he says, ‘I will return to my House from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds itempty, swept, and put in order.

They all mean us. Our soul, mind, body.

So the virgins represent all humanity, saved and unsaved.

Everyone is born with a lamp and a wick.

All wicks can burn for a short time without any oil/fuel. Some might even be able to burn a little longer with a counterfeit fuel that isn’t oil.

NOWHERE in the parable does it say that the foolish virgins (people) EVER had any oil.

Oil is representative all throughout Scripture as the Holy Spirit.

The foolish people never believed in Jesus, and never received the Holy Spirit.

QUOTE
"NOWHERE in the parable does it say that the foolish virgins (people) EVER had any oil."

Mat 25
7“Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

...you were sayin?

 

[Psalm1]

Alfred Edersheim (The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah) gives the most detailed archaeological treatment. He explains that it was customary in the East to carry about ten such lamps in a bridal procession, with ten being the number required for the benedictions accompanying Jewish marriage ceremonies. He's careful to note a nuance often missed: in the parable, the bridegroom is pictured as coming from a distance to the bridal house, so the virgins go out to meet and escort him back to the bridal place, rather than following the more typical pattern of the groom traveling to the bride's home. Christian Classics Ethereal LibraryChristian Classics Ethereal Library


D.A. Carson, cited by GotQuestions.org, describes the fuller sequence: the bridegroom and friends would leave his home for the bride's home for various ceremonies, followed by a nighttime procession through the streets back to the groom's house — the point at which the lamp-bearing bridesmaids would join in to light the way. GotQuestions


John Walvoord, quoted by Thomas Ice, makes a point relevant to your typological interests: he stresses that the text uses none of the terms elsewhere applied to the church, such as bride or body, so the ten virgins should be read as bridesmaids attending the wedding rather than as the bride herself. Blue Letter Bible


A Reformed Theological Seminary sermon on the passage adds color on the procession itself: once the bride was released by her parents, the groomsmen and bridesmaids would join the couple and parade through the darkened streets with their torches lit on the way to the wedding feast. Reformed Theological Seminary


Jesus Film Project's exposition frames the whole scene similarly: the bride and her bridesmaids waited at the bride's home for the groom, usually after dark, expecting a long procession of dancing and celebration leading to the main event. Jesus Film Project


A more devotional but still Galilean-custom-focused source (Group Bible Study) summarizes the bridesmaids' function plainly: the bride's ten virgins were tasked with lighting the way and welcoming the bridegroom and his friends to the wedding location before joining the celebration.

Nope.
It clearly says the VIRGINS ENTER, WITH JESUS, into the wedding chamber and the door is shut.

But beyond that, we have clearly established there is no bridesmaids in the picture.
However VIRGINS are the correct translation..

Where is the rapture of the bridesmaids in scripture?

 

[Psalm1]

I am not saying that the word "Virgin" is being translated as Bridesmaid. What I am saying is that the parable is told in the context of a Galilean wedding. One standard and required approach to reading a parable is to understand what it would mean to those at the time it was spoken. Ten virgins with lamps would be used to light the way to wedding escorting all those who would attend. The context of the story is describing these ten virgins, not as the "Bride" but as the Bridesmaids.

The bride did not know the day or hour of the groom coming to fetch his bride.

The bridesmaids escorting who? The bride?
Not a good rendering of the parable.

 

[Psalm1]

Again, referring to the five foolish virgins as "carnal believers" is your interpretative leap. It isn't stated, it isn't even implied. What is stated is "foolish". All of them were virgins, all had lamps that were lit, the issue is that half had bought oil for themselves and had full vessels and the other half assumed they could simply borrow oil from others. Their job was to light lamps for a midnight walk to the wedding. That is what is stated. You can infer that their status is "servants" but to call them generic believers is faulty, especially babes in Christ. No one is going to ask a babe in Christ to light the way in the dark for those going to the wedding.

You stated in another post the 10 were all believers.

I never said babies in Christ are the foolish.
The foolish are carnal believers...(had oil at one time).
The seven letters to the church had several defenciencies and consequences.
Plus the cure.
BOTH escape verses by JESUS HAD CONDITIONS TO THEM.

Its is not a new , strange concept.

The virgin parable can be simplified into "worthy vs unworthy "
It clearly reveals only half the church gets raptured.

 

[Roger316]

They ARE virgins. (who they are)...the church.
Virgins =pure, undefined, set apart.
All 10.
All 10 had oil, lamps, light, were with the strong believers, even sleeping with them, and were waiting onChurch.
They all had that much in order.
All of them.
The game changer was the amount of oil.
The ONLY difference.
No reward for them.
They were carnal believers.
....as we see half the church today.

There is nothing about the parable or the immediate context to suggest carnality,

 

[Psalm1]

No. We see a whole lot of "carnal believers" who are not "pure, undefiled and set apart" to Jesus. So the term Carnal is far too broad. If you want to say that "foolish" is a subset of carnal, that is fine. Could be they were distracted, could be they were lazy, whatever.

You do not understand salvation.
Carnal believers are still believers.

Paul defined spiritual believers contrasted with carnal ones.

What is obvious is that a spiritual believer is intimate with their savior and groom.
Carnal would be the American gospel.
( Jesus is an additive)....not a ruler of my life...which is dying to the flesh and spending time in his manifest presence.

Iow the prodigal was family. He never lost sonship....even though he defected.

The foolish virgins.
They do come in later...via martyrdom

 

[ZNP]

You do not understand salvation.
Carnal believers are still believers.

Paul defined spiritual believers contrasted with carnal ones.

What is obvious is that a spiritual believer is intimate with their savior and groom.
Carnal would be the American gospel.
( Jesus is an additive)....not a ruler of my life...which is dying to the flesh and spending time in his manifest presence.

Iow the prodigal was family. He never lost sonship....even though he defected.

The foolish virgins.
They do come in later...via martyrdom

What I understand is that you are a novice when it comes to Bible exposition.

 

[Roger316]

There was no "giving up" in the parable, nor are there "bridesmaids".
Why not start over and keep the components on the table? .

As I say, the story works on its own to convey Jesus' message that some of his followers will be prepared to wait for his delay and some won't. Jesus' warning is clear, BE ON THE ALERT. The following parables highlight what being on the alert looks like.

And yes, in the context of a wedding procession, the bridesmaids were virgins.