What does this have to do with (if anything) the question?
Are you truly that deep in the ditch as to ignore such a simple question?
Saved by faith alone?
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Are you truly that deep in the ditch as to ignore such a simple question?
I was addressing this part of your post....
To all those insisting that the term "Saved by faith" holds the same meaning as
"Saved by faith alone", could someone insist that "He went to the store" holds the same
meaning as "He went to the store alone"?
Saved by faith alone.....
Rom 12:3 KJV For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
God has given everyone a measure of faith.
Does that mean all will be saved?
No
Many will be lost even with their measure of faith.
Faith must be cultivated.
We can not produce faith in ourselves but we can grow and increase the the faith given to us by God.
Ephesians 2:8 – "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Hebrews 12:2 – Jesus is described as "the author and finisher of our faith." He is the source from which all faith flows.
Romans 10:17 – "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
The Word of God..... this is important.
While God gives the measure of faith to every man, it is our responsibility to exercise and keep that faith. Just as a muscle grows with use, our faith increases as we rely on God's promises.
God's word.
Rom 12:3 KJV For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
God has given everyone a measure of faith.
Does that mean all will be saved?
No
Many will be lost even with their measure of faith.
Faith must be cultivated.
We can not produce faith in ourselves but we can grow and increase the the faith given to us by God.
Ephesians 2:8 – "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
Hebrews 12:2 – Jesus is described as "the author and finisher of our faith." He is the source from which all faith flows.
Romans 10:17 – "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
The Word of God..... this is important.
While God gives the measure of faith to every man, it is our responsibility to exercise and keep that faith. Just as a muscle grows with use, our faith increases as we rely on God's promises.
God's word.
How God created anything/performs all miracles is beyond our comprehension.
I asked God this question around 40 years ago. I asked about those who looked at the stars, that declare His glory. Paul says that no man has an excuse to disbelieve. (Romans 1:20 ff). The Lord said to me that if someone is sincere, He will make a way to save them. I know someone who was desperate and cried out to God. His prayer was along the lines of "If you are real, help me". He had lost his home and needed somewhere to live. He saw an ad and applied. The woman owner was a believer. She invited him to a meeting and he received Christ there.
Muslims have been seeing Jesus in a vision or a dream. They are then meeting believers who preach the gospel to them. One man testified that God even gave him the address of a believer who then led him to salvation.
Cornelius was God fearing. He was generous to the poor and a man of prayer. God sent Peter to preach the gospel to him. The Holy Spirit led Philip to the Ethiopian Eunuch.
Christian comedian Jeff Allen has an amazing testimony of how God can turn the heart of an atheist to Himself. It's well worth listening to it. It's another example of how God can arrange circumstances to ensure that someone hears the gospel. Jeff reminds me a little of myself before I was saved. His burning question was "What's the point of life?" God miraculously showed him.
The gospel is still the power of God to save.
I never could or even try to understand Saved by faith Alone.
It takes much trust knowledge and undestanding to even know to put Faith Forward . Abtd without The Attributes of the Holy Spirit there is nto fruit of the Spirit lead to No faith even as a gift of the spirit
looks like short cutting the way and word ,of The Lord . After following The gospel and only following by Gospel of The Lord
Faith is required gift i can add that cus it moves God , when in His Will .
The problem simple Men shorten up The Word to control others that their faith not of The Holy
It takes much trust knowledge and undestanding to even know to put Faith Forward . Abtd without The Attributes of the Holy Spirit there is nto fruit of the Spirit lead to No faith even as a gift of the spirit
looks like short cutting the way and word ,of The Lord . After following The gospel and only following by Gospel of The Lord
Faith is required gift i can add that cus it moves God , when in His Will .
The problem simple Men shorten up The Word to control others that their faith not of The Holy
But that is not God believing for us, which is what you had accused me of saying.
No, we still believe, with our God-given faith.
What did Jesus have to do and say to receive His Spirit? Surely He always had His Spirit.
Just asking, what do you mean by the abbreviation "AA"? I thought it meant "Alcoholics Anonymous," but that isn't a particularly Christian organisation, so would not have the third step you describe. Just wondering.
You seem to like being a hand puppet?
Grace controls our flesh, so our soul can be made able to believe.
Without grace our flesh would oppress our soul's ability to believe.
That is why we are first saved by grace, and faith follows as we accept God's Word.
That explains the "years" you mentioned of reading my posts. I cannot access CF very often now (some glitch that prevents members in the UK from accessing the home page), but I am certain that I did not post anything there to suggest I believed anything different to what I post here.
I think most of us who talk about "faith alone" are thinking of verses like these:
(Eph 2:8-9 KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
So not saved by faith. Saved by grace through faith. Then come the words, "not of works." So if not grace working through faith alone, what is it you want to add? If you say "works", or something similar like "obedience" then you would seem to be going against what Paul says in the verses I quoted. I would stress, though, that having been saved, we are indeed to do good works, not in order to become saved, but because we are saved. Paul goes on to say:
(Eph 2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
And mine was the real answer, but if you can explain how God created the world including humans, go ahead.
I trusted God fully 50 years ago my friend. And have been ever sense.
Yes. Your not trusting the God who can rescue you..
The gospel states you are a sinner. lost. and enemy of God. and you can not save yourself. He must save you. that is the purpose of the cross.
If your trying to save yourself. then again,, I think you have proven my point
Your trying to save yourself by submitting under your power and doing the work. And not being the tax collector. unable to ven look up at God. and begging for his mercy.
Nope. Faith is somethign I did. And until God proves untrustworthy. I have no fear of losing that faith. because it is in him.
Since God will never prove untrustworthy. my confidence in him will continue..
Stop pointing to I (I must) when you do that. your pointing away from Jesus
again, I had that experience 50 years ago, when I fell on my face and cried out to God..
Have you had this experience? or are you still trying to get it by "submitting to God of your own power?"
Yes. Your trying to defend your works based theology.
the point is do not use a strawman to defend your position.
Don't accuse someone else of doing something, you are doing yourself..
better yet, How can a God who is outside of time, who has already seen all of history happen (including our future) not know in this omniscience everything the person would do. including if he would have faith and trust him or not?
The issue is no one says we are saved by faith alone except those who accusing others of preaching it.
I did this example in another chatroom. It may fit here as well.
so here is a real world example to show the difference between our accusations.
Belief systems using bread as an example
There are two types of bread. Leavened and Unleavened.
Salvation is the end result of the mixing of these ingredients and cooking them
To make either type takes basic ingredients.
1. Flour
2. Water or oil or a combination of both
3. To make leavened bread you add yeast. For unleavened bread you do not add yeast.
Now lets take these ingredients and add terms which represent what is required for salvation.
1. Flour represents grace, the grace of God that offers salvation or the main ingredient of bread
2. Water represents mere belief, ie, I believe what I am hearing. But I am not sure I trust what it says or it offers (the gospel) another way to say it is saying the sinners prayer but not actually trusting what you are praying, ie it is just words.
3. Oil represents faith, Ie, a full trust, confidence, unwavering belief that what the gospel promises it will accomplish (more than just mere belief)
4. Yeast represents works.
Now if someone is claiming that someone else is preaching faith alone, or belief alone. (As I am continually being accused of here) They are claiming the person is trying to make bread with just water and oil. There is no flour or yeast added to the ingredients. Hence no bread will be created
If the person being accused believes all 3 ingredients are required to create the bread they are trying to create (unleavened bread) then the one claiming they teach faith or mere belief alone, is not being truthful. They are bearing false witness against the one they are falsely accusing of trying to make bread with just water and/or oil (mere believe alone, faith alone, or a combination of mere belief and faith only)
Now if the second person makes bread using flour (grace) plus Water (belief) Plus oil (faith) plus yeast (works)
And someone says they are trying to make their bread (get saved) by yeast (works) they are not misrepresenting the person, or bearing false witness. Because the person does preach we must use yeast to get the bread he is trying to make
On the other hand, if the person says he believes in yeast alone (adds the word alone) he would be bearing false witness.. Because you can not make bread with just yeast, and no one teaches this to begin with.
We have the end result we are all looking for..which is our personal salvation (the completed bread)
Both groups state Grace plus belief leading to true saving faith is required. (or so they claim)
One adds the ingredient of yeast (which represents works) to the equation.
Ie, yeast is required for their end results (it would represent saying works are required)
So to deny they preach works (adding yeast) is a denial in itself of what they actually teach.
And the one claiming they preach works. Are not in error. Unless they claim “works alone”. (which I have never accused anyone of doing)
On the other hand, when someone states someone teaches mere belief and or faith “alone” (water and/or oil “alone” )
And the person actually teaches grace must be involved, (we are saved by Grace through faith, He who believes will never perish but has eternal life) the the one accusing of faith alone is in error and bearing false withess.
Bearing false witness against a brother or sister in christ only happen when Pride takes over. It stops any form of conversation. and leads to fighting
I once again ask that we stop looking through the lens of our belief system. and trying to make ourselves right at all cost. and stop to listen to the person or persons we are discussing with.
the point is. NO one teaches faith alone.
But many teach works..
yet many are accused of teaching faith alone (when they have not) and many teach works, then deny it
The word says we are saved by Grace through faith. not of ourselves. not of works. lest we boast.
We are not saved by faith alone. We are saved by grace by recieving it in faith (we trust the promises of God and are confident God is abloe to carry out what he promised)
Grace is offered to all mankind. But only those who want it will recieve it based on their faith.
the rest will remain in unbelief and remain condemned.
this is in error
We are saved by grace only when we recieve it in faith.
we are not saved first. then required to have faith..