Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[Pilgrimshope]

If John is writing in the time of Nero, that fits very well.
The beast that comes from the sea is Rome (from the Mediterranean).
The first seven Roman emperors: Julius Cesar, Augustus Cesar, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, then Galba, who continued for only 7 months.
That means that the one that "is" is Nero.
John is not at liberty to disclose the name of the man Nero, so he gives the Hebrew number of the name.
"NERON CESAR" transliterated into Hebrew letters adds up to six hundred and sixty six.

After Galba the Roman empire collapses into civil war and appears to be dead, but the Flavian dynasty (8th beast) arises from the destruction.
It is under this renewed Roman empire that Jerusalem is destroyed.
These are the events that John predicts "must shortly come to pass" in Revelations 1:1.

We know most probably it’s written and recognized somewhere from ( 65-95) ad but it would be hard to ever pinpoint it with accuracy more than that I’d guess anyways

 

[Revelation1v8]

I think what you’re missing is that their souls are with him, and they won’t get their bodies until he comes and raises the sleeping to give them their new bodies.

I think you're being disingenuous here. I think YOU were the one missing the fact that it is the souls of the saints that return with Jesus, because you insisted that they did not and that only the angels return with Him. I hope we both can agree at this point that ALL of Jesus' saints and holy ones will be returning with Him at His second coming.

 

[OMC]

I think you're being disingenuous here. I think YOU were the one missing the fact that it is the souls of the saints that return with Jesus, because you insisted that they did not and that only the angels return with Him. I hope we both can agree at this point that ALL of Jesus' saints and holy ones will be returning with Him at His second coming.

I agree that we will all be there

 

[Revelation1v8]

“You're right about Jesus being the fountain that's opens up in Israel for forgiveness and the cleansing of sin, but the Hebrews/Israelites are not grafted back into the Olive Tree until after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in like Paul tells us….”

paul was and all the early disciples were Hebrews and converted other Hebrews all along . They aren’t excluded from Christ they exclude themselves just like any nationality


If you look it says if they don’t continue in unbelief they’ll be grafted in again ……that’s true now and always for Jew and gentile . Gentiles are now able to join the commonwealth of isreal through Christ but ……. It has nothing to do with flesh and blood identity is the thing it’s who believes ……if we don’t believe we’ll be cut off if we believe we’ll be grafted in .

I agree if any Israelite repents and believes in Christ they’ll be included or if any gentile rejects Christ they are excluded. Same with Jews they reject chist is the elephant in the room. Just like many many gentile nationality of people do . Being of flesh and blood line doesn’t make anyone israel

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We don’t belong to god because we’re born into any particular flesh and blood line but because we’re born again through believing the gospel . The determining factor is faith in Christ individually everyones the same we’re all cursed because of sin and need redemption


When we see this

“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, And shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to also have read what Paul was writing just before that

“they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
also he just said this of israel before in his letter
“Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see what I’m saying at all ?

Are we to dismiss this part for the other. Or consider what it’s saying in both ?

“they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: “

should we then interpret this to mean every flesh and blood israelite shall be saved ?

“And so all Israel shall be saved”

suprisingly if we just carefully and prayerfully read his letters to ourselves they are just incredible deep explainations of the biblical subject matter

"ALL Israel" includes Christians, refined Israelites (Zechariah 13:8-9), and the land itself. Jesus will return to Jerusalem after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and every nation has turned its back on Israel (Zechariah 12:3). He will cut down every nation that tried to come up against Jerusalem (Zechariah 12) and refine (save) a "remnant" like He always has throughout all of history. Then He will sit down on the throne of David and begin His Millennial Kingdom reign on earth for 1,000 years before the final battle of Gog & Magog where Satan will finally be thrown into the Lake of Fire and the rest of us are judged at the Great White Throne Judgement like Revelation 20 says. After all are judged and the current earth destroyed ( 2 Peter 3:10), God/Jesus will bring in the New Jerusalem/Heaven down for all to reside together in perfection and harmony forever.

 

[Revelation1v8]

If John is writing in the time of Nero, that fits very well.
The beast that comes from the sea is Rome (from the Mediterranean).
The first seven Roman emperors: Julius Cesar, Augustus Cesar, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, then Galba, who continued for only 7 months.
That means that the one that "is" is Nero.
John is not at liberty to disclose the name of the man Nero, so he gives the Hebrew number of the name.
"NERON CESAR" transliterated into Hebrew letters adds up to six hundred and sixty six.

After Galba the Roman empire collapses into civil war and appears to be dead, but the Flavian dynasty (8th beast) arises from the destruction.
It is under this renewed Roman empire that Jerusalem is destroyed.
These are the events that John predicts "must shortly come to pass" in Revelations 1:1.

While that part of prophecy has been fulfilled, it hasn't all been fulfilled yet. History will repeat itself on a much larger scale at the time of the end of the world. I don't know what has transpired throughout this particular part of the discussion, but I'm hoping we don't have Preterists still is this thread declaring that all prophecy has already been fulfilled, when it hasn't.

 

[Beekeeper]

"ALL Israel" includes Christians

Whether "all Israel" in Romans 11:26 refers to the whole church or just the ethnically Hebrew part of the church the meaning is almost the same, because Paul has already taught in his olive tree model that the nations cannot be saved without the salvation of the Israelite root and that the salvation of the nations is likewise essential to his remnant.

When Paul says: " Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace" (v.5), the present time he refers to is not 2026, but the time he is writing.
I think that he is referring to the remnant that was saved from the destruction of Jerusalem, and this remnant was later called the "hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel", Revelations 7:4.

They were described as "virgins" in Revelations 14:4, not because none were married (marriage does not mean "defiled with women"), but because they had not committed spiritual adultery like the followers of the pharisees.
That is also why they are compared to the "seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal" in Romans 11:4.

 

[Revelation1v8]

Whether "all Israel" in Romans 11:26 refers to the whole church or just the ethnically Hebrew part of the church the meaning is almost the same, because Paul has already taught in his olive tree model that the nations cannot be saved without the salvation of the Israelite root and that the salvation of the nations is likewise essential to his remnant.

When Paul says: " Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace" (v.5), the present time he refers to is not 2026, but the time he is writing.
I think that he is referring to the remnant that was saved from the destruction of Jerusalem, and this remnant was later called the "hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel", Revelations 7:4.

They were described as "virgins" in Revelations 14:4, not because none were married (marriage does not mean "defiled with women"), but because they had not committed spiritual adultery like the followers of the pharisees.
That is also why they are compared to the "seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal" in Romans 11:4.

The remnant I'm talking about are the ones living at the time of Jesus' second coming, as in the ones who Jesus returns to protect when the entire world turns against them and Jesus steps in to save the remnant and the land before His Millennial Kingdom reign.

Zechariah 12:3 - And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Zechariah 12:8-10 - In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Zechariah 13:8-9 -

And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

 

[cv5]

Lord of good info

Revelations 1:1.

Always a glaring red flag for biblical illiteracy.

 

[cv5]

If John is writing in the time of Nero, that fits very well.
The beast that comes from the sea is Rome (from the Mediterranean).
The first seven Roman emperors: Julius Cesar, Augustus Cesar, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, then Galba, who continued for only 7 months.
That means that the one that "is" is Nero.
John is not at liberty to disclose the name of the man Nero, so he gives the Hebrew number of the name.
"NERON CESAR" transliterated into Hebrew letters adds up to six hundred and sixty six.

After Galba the Roman empire collapses into civil war and appears to be dead, but the Flavian dynasty (8th beast) arises from the destruction.
It is under this renewed Roman empire that Jerusalem is destroyed.
These are the events that John predicts "must shortly come to pass" in Revelations 1:1.

This argument represents the Early-Date Preterist interpretation of the Book of Revelation. While it gained significant popularity in the 19th century and remains a major scholarly theory, the vast majority of church history and modern textual criticism reject it.

The theory relies on selective counting, linguistic gymnastics, and ignoring key historical evidence. The argument breaks down under critical scrutiny across several key areas:

1. The Historical Date of Composition (The AD 95 Problem)
For the Neronic theory to work, Revelation must have been written around AD 65–68 (before Nero's suicide). However, both external historical evidence and internal text point to a late date around AD 95–96, during the reign of Emperor Domitian.
* Early Church Testimony: St. Irenaeus (c. AD 180)—who was a disciple of Polycarp, who was himself a direct disciple of the Apostle John—explicitly wrote that the vision was seen "almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign" (Against Heresies 5.30.3).
* Condition of the Seven Churches: The spiritual decline described in the letters to the Seven Churches (e.g., Laodicea being rich and self-satisfied) contradicts the historical reality of these churches in the mid-60s. Smyrna, for instance, did not even exist as a established Christian community during Paul's ministry in the 60s.
If Revelation was written in AD 95, Nero had already been dead for nearly 30 years, invalidating the argument that John was predicting Nero's immediate actions.

2. The Arbitrary Counting of Roman Emperors
To make Nero the 6th king ("the one that is") and Galba the 7th, one must start the count with Julius Caesar. This is historically and textually problematic:
* Julius Caesar was never an Emperor: He was a dictator of the Roman Republic. The Roman Empire officially began with Augustus.
* Standard First-Century Counting: Both Jewish and Roman historians of the 1st century (such as Josephus, Tacitus, and Suetonius) frequently began counting Roman emperors with Augustus.
* If you start with Augustus:
* Augustus
* Tiberius
* Caligula
* Claudius
* Nero (5th)
* Galba (6th — "the one that is")
* If the 6th emperor ("the one that is") is Galba, the theory falls apart because Revelation would be claiming Galba was reigning, not Nero.
* Furthermore, if you exclude the brief rule of Galba, Otho, and Vitellius during the Year of the Four Emperors (AD 69) as usurpers, Vespasian becomes the 6th emperor. The list can be manipulated to fit almost any emperor depending on where you choose to start and who you decide to count.

3. The Flaws in the "666 = Neron Caesar" Calculation
The argument that "Neron Caesar" equals 666 via Hebrew gematria (assigning numerical values to letters) seems convincing on the surface, but requires severe linguistic manipulation:
* Language Mismatch: John was writing in Greek to a Greek-speaking Gentile/Jewish-Christian audience in Asia Minor (modern Turkey). Demanding that a Greek-speaking audience translate a Latin name (Nero Caesar) into an awkward Hebrew transliteration (NRWN QSR) to decode a Greek text makes little sense.
* Forced Spelling: To make the Hebrew letters equal 666, the title must be spelled נרון קסר (Neron Qasar), dropping the letter Yod (י), which was standard spelling for "Caesar" in ancient Hebrew/Aramaic (קסיר - Qasyr). Standard ancient Hebrew spelling adds up to 676, not 666.
* Early Church Ignorance: Irenaeus, writing in the 2nd century with access to original apostolic traditions, analyzed the number 666 extensively and proposed names like Teitan or Lateinos. He explicitly noted that he did not know the exact identity of the Beast. If the Apostles intended 666 to mean Nero, that knowledge vanished suspiciously fast.

4. Historical Mismatches of the Beast
The actual biblical description of the Beast in Revelation 13 and 17 does not fit Nero's actual reign or death:
* Global Economic Control: Revelation 13:17 states that no one could buy or sell without the mark of the beast. Nero never issued a universal mark, economic restriction, or mandatory currency stamp on the right hand or forehead required for daily commercial trade.
* The "Mortal Wound" Myth: Preterists claim the Flavian Dynasty was the "resurrection" of the Beast. However, Revelation describes the individual Beast himself receiving a fatal head wound that is healed (often linked by scholars to the Nero Redivivus legend—a popular pagan myth that Nero hadn't really died and would return with a Parthian army). The Roman Empire did not "die" when Nero committed suicide; the central government experienced a brief year of civil war before Vespasian restored order.

Summary
The Preterist interpretation forces the biblical text into a narrow, 1st-century window by:
* Ignoring early church witness on the AD 95 date.
* Starting the list of Roman Emperors arbitrarily with Julius Caesar instead of Augustus.
* Forcing a Greek text into a modified, non-standard Hebrew spelli
ng of a Latin name to obtain 666.

 

[cv5]

Whether "all Israel" in Romans 11:26 refers to the whole church or just the ethnically Hebrew part of the church the meaning is almost the same, because Paul has already taught in his olive tree model that the nations cannot be saved without the salvation of the Israelite root and that the salvation of the nations is likewise essential to his remnant.

When Paul says: " Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace" (v.5), the present time he refers to is not 2026, but the time he is writing.
I think that he is referring to the remnant that was saved from the destruction of Jerusalem, and this remnant was later called the "hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel", Revelations 7:4.

They were described as "virgins" in Revelations 14:4, not because none were married (marriage does not mean "defiled with women"), but because they had not committed spiritual adultery like the followers of the pharisees.
That is also why they are compared to the "seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal" in Romans 11:4.

Whether "all Israel" in Romans 11:26 refers to the whole church

 

[Pilgrimshope]

"ALL Israel" includes Christians, refined Israelites (Zechariah 13:8-9), and the land itself. Jesus will return to Jerusalem after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and every nation has turned its back on Israel (Zechariah 12:3). He will cut down every nation that tried to come up against Jerusalem (Zechariah 12) and refine (save) a "remnant" like He always has throughout all of history. Then He will sit down on the throne of David and begin His Millennial Kingdom reign on earth for 1,000 years before the final battle of Gog & Magog where Satan will finally be thrown into the Lake of Fire and the rest of us are judged at the Great White Throne Judgement like Revelation 20 says. After all are judged and the current earth destroyed ( 2 Peter 3:10), God/Jesus will bring in the New Jerusalem/Heaven down for all to reside together in perfection and harmony forever.

"ALL Israel" includes Christians, refined Israelites (Zechariah 13:8-9),

Right those refined in the fires of the tribulation “the remnant “ are now redeemed along with all humanity who will believe the gospel.



“and the land itself. “

…..the new covenant has new promises better ones

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Jesus will return to Jerusalem“

Jesus will return from heaven and raise up the dead in the air with him then gather all his people still alive up with them then destroy this earth with fire ….. and the new heavenly Jerusalem …..will come to the new earth after this one ends

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some are looking to this earth for Jerusalem some even try to make it happen themselves like the coalition after ww2 …….. Gods promise is for a new creation where his people will dwell with him

 

[Revelation1v8]

"ALL Israel" includes Christians, refined Israelites (Zechariah 13:8-9),

Right those refined in the fires of the tribulation “the remnant “ are now redeemed along with all humanity who will believe the gospel.



“and the land itself. “

…..the new covenant has new promises better ones

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Jesus will return to Jerusalem“

Jesus will return from heaven and raise up the dead in the air with him then gather all his people still alive up with them then destroy this earth with fire ….. and the new heavenly Jerusalem …..will come to the new earth after this one ends

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some are looking to this earth for Jerusalem some even try to make it happen themselves like the coalition after ww2 …….. Gods promise is for a new creation where his people will dwell with him

You're still leaving out large portions of the Bible. I'll copy and paste a previous response I made to someone else.

The Bible describes the Millennial Kingdom in the book of Isaiah through multiple chapters, most notably Isaiah 2, Isaiah 9, Isaiah 11, Isaiah 32, and Isaiah 65. These passages outline the characteristics of Christ’s future 1,000-year reign on earth following His Second Coming.

Key characteristics of the Millennial Kingdom include:

• Global Peace and Disarmament: Nations will no longer wage war; they will beat their swords into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks (Isaiah 2:4).
• Righteous Rule: Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David with justice and righteousness (Isaiah 9:6-7). Princes will also rule in justice (Isaiah 32:1).
• Natural Harmony: The animal kingdom will be restored to peace; predators like wolves and lions will dwell with lambs and calves (Isaiah 11:6-9 and Isaiah 65:25).
• Extended Longevity: Lifespans will be dramatically increased, with death considered premature only for those who do not live to the age of one hundred (Isaiah 65:20).
• Prosperity and Security: People will enjoy the fruit of their own labor without fear or confiscation (Isaiah 65:21-23). Disease and deformity will cease, and the blind will see and the lame will leap (Isaiah 35:5-6).
• Spiritual Knowledge: The earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord (Isaiah 11:9).

While some theologians interpret Isaiah 65:17-25 as referring to the eternal New Heaven and New Earth, many dispensational and premillennial scholars argue it describes the Millennial Kingdom because it mentions births, deaths, and mortal lifespans, which are inconsistent with the eternal state described in Revelation 21-22.

When the 1,000 years of peace on earth is finished (Revelation 20), Satan will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, all will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgement in order to enter the New Jerusalem/Heaven that comes down from Heaven like Revelation chapter 21 tells us. There will be no need for judges, repopulating, or death in the New Jerusalem/Heaven. That's how we know all of this will take place on the current earth.

 

[Lovette]

You might benefit from a community college course in reading comprehension—and perhaps an introductory class in logic and rhetoric.

Given your track record in this exchange, the baseline remediation would be a major upgrade.

Or how about you just drop it. Pretrib rapture, the third temple and all that stuff is all hype with no substance.

 

[Revelation1v8]

"ALL Israel" includes Christians, refined Israelites (Zechariah 13:8-9),

Right those refined in the fires of the tribulation “the remnant “ are now redeemed along with all humanity who will believe the gospel.



“and the land itself. “

…..the new covenant has new promises better ones

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Jesus will return to Jerusalem“

Jesus will return from heaven and raise up the dead in the air with him then gather all his people still alive up with them then destroy this earth with fire ….. and the new heavenly Jerusalem …..will come to the new earth after this one ends

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some are looking to this earth for Jerusalem some even try to make it happen themselves like the coalition after ww2 …….. Gods promise is for a new creation where his people will dwell with him

I forgot to include an important verse here which is:

Luke 24:44 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that ALL THINGS must be fulfilled, WHICH WERE WRITTEN in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

So, it's important that we read the entire Bible because several books were not written just to show what COULD HAVE HAPPENED if the Israelites had obeyed. Jesus will fulfill it ALL because God keeps His promises, even when we aren't capable of keeping our end of them. Jesus will bring a remnant into the New Covenant like the Bible says and fulfill the Abrahamic & Davidic Covenants along with them when He does.

 

[cv5]

Or how about you just drop it. Pretrib rapture, the third temple and all that stuff is all hype with no substance.

Lol. The pre-trib rapture doctrine is boilerplate. And ALWAYS is proven so on these threads.

It ain't even close. And exactly what you would expect when you have the entire Bible backing you up.

 

[cv5]

"ALL Israel" includes Christians, refined Israelites (Zechariah 13:8-9), and the land itself. Jesus will return to Jerusalem after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and every nation has turned its back on Israel (Zechariah 12:3). He will cut down every nation that tried to come up against Jerusalem (Zechariah 12) and refine (save) a "remnant" like He always has throughout all of history. Then He will sit down on the throne of David and begin His Millennial Kingdom reign on earth for 1,000 years before the final battle of Gog & Magog where Satan will finally be thrown into the Lake of Fire and the rest of us are judged at the Great White Throne Judgement like Revelation 20 says. After all are judged and the current earth destroyed ( 2 Peter 3:10), God/Jesus will bring in the New Jerusalem/Heaven down for all to reside together in perfection and harmony forever.

"ALL Israel" includes Christians."

Impossible. The mystery Bride Church is formed ONLY during the Church Age.
And any Israelite believer DURING the Church age is a Christian.


"IN THAT DAY"......find out what that means in Zechariah.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You're still leaving out large portions of the Bible. I'll copy and paste a previous response I made to someone else.

The Bible describes the Millennial Kingdom in the book of Isaiah through multiple chapters, most notably Isaiah 2, Isaiah 9, Isaiah 11, Isaiah 32, and Isaiah 65. These passages outline the characteristics of Christ’s future 1,000-year reign on earth following His Second Coming.

Key characteristics of the Millennial Kingdom include:

• Global Peace and Disarmament: Nations will no longer wage war; they will beat their swords into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks (Isaiah 2:4).
• Righteous Rule: Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David with justice and righteousness (Isaiah 9:6-7). Princes will also rule in justice (Isaiah 32:1).
• Natural Harmony: The animal kingdom will be restored to peace; predators like wolves and lions will dwell with lambs and calves (Isaiah 11:6-9 and Isaiah 65:25).
• Extended Longevity: Lifespans will be dramatically increased, with death considered premature only for those who do not live to the age of one hundred (Isaiah 65:20).
• Prosperity and Security: People will enjoy the fruit of their own labor without fear or confiscation (Isaiah 65:21-23). Disease and deformity will cease, and the blind will see and the lame will leap (Isaiah 35:5-6).
• Spiritual Knowledge: The earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord (Isaiah 11:9).

While some theologians interpret Isaiah 65:17-25 as referring to the eternal New Heaven and New Earth, many dispensational and premillennial scholars argue it describes the Millennial Kingdom because it mentions births, deaths, and mortal lifespans, which are inconsistent with the eternal state described in Revelation 21-22.

When the 1,000 years of peace on earth is finished (Revelation 20), Satan will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, all will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgement in order to enter the New Jerusalem/Heaven that comes down from Heaven like Revelation chapter 21 tells us. There will be no need for judges, repopulating, or death in the New Jerusalem/Heaven. That's how we know all of this will take place on the current earth.

Yes I understand your opinion of revelation differs but your copy and paste there doesn’t really do much for me

israel was cursed and lost thier kingdom …. Gods promise to restore them is the new covenant the old blessing won’t come to pass …. The curse did and the blessing is all completely in Christ

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I forgot to include an important verse here which is:

Luke 24:44 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that ALL THINGS must be fulfilled, WHICH WERE WRITTEN in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

So, it's important that we read the entire Bible because several books were not written just to show what COULD HAVE HAPPENED if the Israelites had obeyed. Jesus will fulfill it ALL because God keeps His promises, even when we aren't capable of keeping our end of them. Jesus will bring a remnant into the New Covenant like the Bible says and fulfill the Abrahamic & Davidic Covenants along with them when He does.

Yes it’s very important this part

Luke 24:44 - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that ALL THINGS must be fulfilled, WHICH WERE WRITTEN in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me“

especially when you keep reading a few more verses and hear Jesus summary of the content

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Israel’s ot land has nothing to do with Jesus or anything he promised israel or gentile …. Restoring Jerusalem according to his covenant and promises is what Jesus is about .

israels old covenant led here

“I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; a people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom. Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: that he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

( but he promised them something better )

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:2-3, 6-9, 12, 15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Again Israel’s inheritance is a new creation ….. he’s declared new things and said forget the old things

“Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:9‬ ‭

Finally why doesn’t the letter to the Hebrews ever mention thier land being restored ? And instead explain to them that gods promised land is not on earth ? You would think the Hebrew people would include at least a single promise of thier ot oand being restored to them but instead thier being told there is a new and better covenant with better promises better preists and a better promised land ?

but it’s okay that you think dofferently it’s all till enjoyable to discuss …..

 

[God-fearing]

Yes I understand your opinion of revelation differs but your copy and paste there doesn’t really do much for me

israel was cursed and lost thier kingdom …. Gods promise to restore them is the new covenant the old blessing won’t come to pass …. The curse did and the blessing is all completely in Christ

When was Israel cursed?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When was Israel cursed?

…. When they broke the covenant that says it would surely cirse and destroy them it comes from this small sample of thier covenant curses.

“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out. The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:15-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:45-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is why Jesus came into Israel telling them they had to be born again in order to enter his kingdom ….. Israel’s covenant was a blessing or a curse upon the nation depending on if they kept or broke it , they broke it and the curses came not only on them like that says but upon all the earth
“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

gods answer and mercy isn’t to simply say forget my words about the curse but instead he began to promise a messiah who would restore all the peoples hearts and give them new spirits and give them new promises in a new covenant preparing them for a new creation

This is what he was promising to do for them after they broke the covenant

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

israel isn’t cursed more than gentiles it’s that in the ot god chose them and then later they broke the cofenwnt and became like the rest now everyone’s the same and there’s a whole new covenant
To be born again removes “ Jew and gentile “ those are identities according to this cursed earth
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ( Jesus was an Israelite ) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The children of Abraham ( his hiers )are those who believe in Christ whether they were Jew or gentile ….