The Church, and Israel and the Last Days.
- Thread starter OMC
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You’re trying to force Noah, Lot, and the Second Coming into a single “rapture template,” but Jesus never uses them that way.
In Noah’s day, the ones taken are the wicked swept away by water.
In Lot’s day, the ones taken are the wicked consumed by fire.
In Christ’s return, the wicked are removed by the brightness of His coming.
These are judgment removals, not rapture removals.
Jesus is teaching how judgment falls, not when believers are gathered
Mat 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
No rapture at The coming of Jesus?
Huh?
Luke 17
28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29;But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
No rapture in vs 30?
Huh?
Are you serious????
Are there any rapture verses in the bible?
Right I think the confusion is that Jesus has never promised to restore thier old covenant promises he made new and better ones that come with him.
i think the debate is about the inheritance and what’s going to happen to earthly flesh israel . Are they going to be all saved and restored to rule earth for a thousand years before the end ? Are they going to rebuild the temple and bring back thier covenant for a thousand years and then it will all end and the new earth will come …….
Its the millenial earthly restored israel idea rather than the desolate israel waiting for the return of the messiah ( which they aren’t because Judaism on its face can’t accept Jesus it would remove all the authority of thier religion. They’d have to repent and believe the gospel be born again as individuals to enter the kingdom which …… isn’t of this world but of the new one promised
On one hand they agree not if you reject Jesus on the other Jews reject Jesus based on thier religion. Which promised of they obeyed they’d be a special kingdom and rule this earth with god a kings them .
really the whole world is doomed to destruction now and Jesus is saving the people who believe from its end for a new creation that’s not going to go awry like this one did because of sin so death won’t be present and god will finally walk among the streets of Jerusalem on earth a new and cleansed earth
The Jews are prophesied to be grafted back in in Romans 9-11.
If you read Ruth the 2 covenant people are depicted side by side in Ruth and Naomi. ( GENTILE AND JEW)
In Hosea, Gomer represents the" wife gone awhoring", ( the covenant Jews).
She is PURCHASED/bought back, in the end...( see the vivid analogy?)
Rev 14 HAS THAT EXACT DYNAMIC.
The Jews grafted BACK IN.
It is beautiful beyond words.
Watching people butcher it is appalling.
I think you're misunderstanding what OMC is saying. Here is another way of putting it...
The Sequence Is Deliberate
In Matthew 13:30, Jesus gives the order explicitly: "Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn." The wicked are removed before the wheat is fully secured. This isn't incidental — it's the point. The field must be purged of the weeds so the wheat can be stored clean. The righteous don't inherit a mixed field; they inherit a purified one.The Harvest ≠ The Second Coming
This is where the distinction gets critical. The harvest is a judgment event, not the visible return of Christ. As one detailed study puts it: the Son of Man's coming to reap is "plainly not when the resurrected and the living righteous are caught up together to meet Him in the air." The harvest (Revelation 14:14-20) is a separate phase that occurs before the full visible return and the establishment of the kingdom on earth. The sequence is:- Harvest / Separation — righteous gathered, wicked judged
- Second Coming — Christ returns visibly to earth
- Kingdom established — the purified righteous inherit the restored creation
Just a side note: Don't confuse the Harvest as the final judgement. It's the sheep & goat judgement that takes place beforehand. The final Great White Throne Judgement is later.
I am not against jews one day, whoever left, they will turn back to Jesus.
I don't think others against it either.
we are just against blindly support of a secular system.
The rapture is not in Matthew 24:37 or Luke 17:30 because those verses are not about the gathering of the saints; they are about the fate of the wicked at the moment of Christ’s appearing. The only place Jesus explicitly describes the rapture is Matthew 24:29–31, where He says the angels gather the elect after the tribulation. So yes, there are rapture verses in the Bible, but they are where Jesus actually places them—not where you are trying to insert them.
ABSOLUTELY!!Nice try, it is your contention you support it.
Btw your posts come across as very AI generated.
Out of curiosity i had to check...
Yep 1,116 posts, joined 8 days ago(as of this date) = over 70 posts a day.
I for one do not, and will not, trust ANYTHING the familiar spirit in OMC posts
Calling someone’s teaching a “familiar spirit” is not discernment; it’s a shortcut to avoid engaging Scripture.
A familiar spirit is a source of revelation, not a person you disagree with. Nothing I post comes from impressions, visions, or spiritual messages—it comes from Bible texts, arguments, and interpretations.
You can challenge those interpretations, you can debate them, you can test them, but assigning a spirit to someone because you don’t like their exegesis is not biblical testing; it’s just shutting down the conversation.
If you think I post lies, challenge them if you dare.
But I sense brother omc is sincere. I have grown more respect to him.Over 70 posts a day!.... yeah something is definitely off.
Don't confuse the rapture with the second coming of Jesus with millions of horses.
2 completely separate events.
Ask yourself how omc can advance an agenda of a pretrib rapture of the wicked, and theorize half earth's population is riteous and half saved.
Gods clear and precise word;
Mt 24
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
It would go with that theory, that He also thinks the wicked need to watch and be ready for their pretrib departure.
I respect les feldick, but his hyperpauline error is appalling.
Same with omc.
Both errors can be spotted a mile away.
Again, Your objection collapses Jesus’ analogy by assuming “taken” must mean “raptured,” but Jesus already defined the pattern in verses 38–39: in Noah’s day the ones taken were the wicked swept away in judgment, and He says, “so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be,” meaning the pattern carries forward, not the props. The contrast in vv.40–41 (“one taken, one left”) is the same judgment‑removal pattern, not a pre‑trib rescue of the righteous; the righteous are the ones left alive, just as Noah and his family were left, and just as Lot was left outside the fire.
I don't understand the point you're trying to make, The verses you posted shows that the flood came and "took away" the unrighteous and carried them away in the flood.
When Jesus returns, He puts everyone through the Sheep & Goat Judgement in which the righteous are chosen to stay and enter HIs earthly Millennial Kingdom and the unrighteous are removed.
FACPALM.
Really??
you are STILL PROMOTING, that half the world is righteous, and half saved?????
Psssst...Jesus USES the same 50% taken about 10 sentences later in heaven virgin parable.
WHO IS TAKEN, AND WHO IS LEFT BEHIND.????
Where is Noah when the flood starts.?
Where Lot when Sodom receives the fire?
Where are the 5 wise virgins when The door in heaven is shut?
Where is the church when the bride is declared he wife.?
What is the setting described BY JESUS , at the gathering of Noah PRETRIB?
WHAT IS THE SETTING DESCRIBED By JESUS AT THE GATHERING OF LOT?
What is the setting at the gathering, Described by Jesus, in the virgin parable?
What is the setting describedi in acts chapter one, when the angels prophesied his return?
Every one of those components you have tampered with.
EVERY COMPONENT.
In ALL THAT, EVERY INSTANCE, IT IS 100% PRETRIB.
So, no matter what, your deal, of a wicked people rapture, is some weird concept you inveted.
IT LITERALLY CAN NOT BE TRUE.
100% MADE UP BY YOUR DOCTRINE.
Look at what you do with lot.
You can not admit he was removed.
You, truly are, being reckless with Gods word.
You’re throwing a lot of heat, but none of it is actually landing on the text. So one more time for those of you at home, Jesus Himself defines the pattern in Matthew 24:38–39: in Noah’s day, the ones taken were the wicked swept away in judgment, and He explicitly says, “so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be”—same pattern, not a secret pre‑trib rescue. Noah and Lot are removed to safety before judgment, yes, but that is not a global rapture; it is local deliverance preceding localized wrath, and Jesus uses them as analogies of sudden separation, not as blueprints for a two‑stage coming. In the parable of the virgins (Matt 25:1–13), the issue is readiness, not timing—the wise enter, the foolish are shut out; there is no 50% global statistic, just a warning that some professing believers will be unprepared. Acts 1:11 speaks of a visible return, not a hidden pre‑trib event. You keep insisting “100% pre‑trib” by stringing together analogies and then accusing anyone who won’t adopt your synthesis of “tampering,” but the text never says what you’re claiming: it never teaches a pre‑trib rapture of the wicked, never assigns a 50/50 global split, and never turns Noah/Lot into a secret departure of the church. If you want to argue timing, you have to do it from explicit eschatological passages, not from parables and analogies pressed beyond what Jesus actually says.