Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[HeIsHere]

Uh... yes? That is what you should see in reality. Jesus said Jerusalem is trampled by the gentiles UNTIL.......... and they have been trampled by gentiles for 2000 years.

Heaven and earth passed away and Christ Jesus knew exactly what was about to come upon "this generation" not the generation 2000+ years into the future.

Here it is once again >>>> the "Times of the Gentiles" (Luke 21:24) is the specific historical period of the Roman siege and destruction of Jerusalem from AD 66 to AD 70, marking the end of the Old Covenant age and the trampling of the earthly city by the Roman armies.

 

[Aaron56]

Heaven and earth passed away and Christ Jesus knew exactly what was about to come upon "this generation" not the generation 2000+ years into the future.

Here it is once again >>>> the "Times of the Gentiles" (Luke 21:24) is the specific historical period of the Roman siege and destruction of Jerusalem from AD 66 to AD 70, marking the end of the Old Covenant age and the trampling of the earthly city by the Roman armies.

In your view, is this the same place where "heaven and earth pass away" or is it something else?

2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."

 

[Komentaja]

Right.

Please circle where replacement occurs:

View attachment 295941

Glad you asked. Let me explain it to you:*

The picture you posted has nothing wrong with it, there is indeed one new man in Christ that includes both gentiles and jews.
Where the replacement occurs is that God scattered and cursed Israel after the flesh, and some say that the regathering promises arent to that same group and their descendants. THAT is where it occurs. So God scatters Israel, regathers the gentiles?? Thats replacement, to spiritualize the regathering promises to "oh yeah gentiles and jews are now saved in Christ so thats like returning to spiritual Jerusalem, Zion or something"

 

[Aaron56]

Glad you asked. Let me explain it to you:*

The picture you posted has nothing wrong with it, there is indeed one new man in Christ that includes both gentiles and jews.
Where the replacement occurs is that God scattered and cursed Israel after the flesh, and some say that the regathering promises arent to that same group and their descendants. THAT is where it occurs. So God scatters Israel, regathers the gentiles?? Thats replacement, to spiritualize the regathering promises to "oh yeah gentiles and jews are now saved in Christ so thats like returning to spiritual Jerusalem, Zion or something"

Are you talking about natural descendants or about those who are of the singular "Seed" of Christ? I agree both Jew and Gentile are one in Christ (and are, therefore, neither Jew nor Gentile). If you are saying flesh and blood determines who God includes in the covenant that mapped out natural Israel then you are saying that natural Israel is outside of the Kingdom of God.

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God..."

 

[Komentaja]

Are you talking about natural descendants or about those who are of the singular "Seed" of Christ? I agree both Jew and Gentile are one in Christ (and are, therefore, neither Jew nor Gentile). If you are saying flesh and blood determines who God includes in the covenant that mapped out natural Israel then you are saying that natural Israel is outside of the Kingdom of God.

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God..."

There you go you did it again. You read the verse in Galatians and conclude "Yeah we are the seed now cause we are in Christ" and IGNORE the promises given to Israel who WILL BE saved at the second coming or prior to it. During the time of Jacob's trouble. Those are the clear promises given to that nation of people, simple as.

YES we are in Christ and we do inherit the promises and yes Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of the SEED. Yet those arent the only two verses in the Bible.

 

[God-fearing]

Was it also good news when they killed and stoned the prophets?

Excepting other than what we want to here from anybody is hard for anyone. Won't you agree?
I bring this up as to show this.....Israel was the example of what and what not to do as a person or people's even as a nation.
Can we also agree the new testament is jews lead by a Jewish rabbi teaching gentiles how to be christian?
Im not making excuses for Israel's faults and sins they have paid a dear price for them. Rightly so by a just God who shows no favoritism. For if God did not spare his son what makes anyone exempt?
I believe we can learn much from the story of israel that would greatly enrich our walk with Christ.

 

[Jerusalem_Road]

Replacement, in my understanding, is when a person or group of people choose to believe that the church has replaced Israel. However
"There is [now no distinction in regard to salvation] neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you [who believe] are all one in Christ Jesus [no one can claim a spiritual superiority]." Galatians 3:28 Amplified Bible
However, scripture places value on being Jewish.
"1 What, then, is the advantage of being a Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? 2 Much in every way. First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God." - Romans 3:1-2 Berean Standard Bible

 

[ScooterJackson]

Can we also agree the new testament is jews lead by a Jewish rabbi teaching gentiles how to be christian?

But these particular Jews were no living under the law of Moses.

They started the New Covenant and brought forth the Law of Christ
(Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

 

[God-fearing]

I am not really sure what it is you are asking?
Simple answer...... the Old Covenant was fulfilled and no longer required, it is in the Book of Hebrews.

So this is why the temple was destroyed?

 

[cv5]

Revelation 3:9 is a verse that could bite you back.
Only Jesus has the right to define who are and are not Jews.

On the contrary, I have NEVER claimed to be anything more than a hayseed gentile no-account nobody.

I have never claimed to be a "Jew". I have never claimed to be a "true Jew".
I have never claimed to be an Israelite. I have never claimed that the Church has replaced Israel.

What I HAVE claimed is that I have glommed onto the New Covenant, this opportunity for covenant inclusion being incidental to the fact of Israel rejecting the offer of the King and Kingdom THE FIRST TIME AROUND.

This window of mercy is now occuring during the interregnum between 69th and 70th week.

These passages are crystal clear proof of same. Unless of course you are blinded by RT dogma.

[Rom 10:19 KJV] 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by [them that are] no people, [and] by a foolish nation I will anger you.

[Rom 11:12 KJV] 12 Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

[Rom 11:25-26 KJV]
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[God-fearing]

But these particular Jews were no living under the law of Moses.

They started the New Covenant and brought forth the Law of Christ
(Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

Hmmmm. Peter refusing to eat un clean food enter a gentiles home, Paul observation of sabbath....Mount of transfiguration to build 3 tabernacles. Jesus observation of feastdays.....baptism,.....I guess I see it are bit different my friend.

 

[cv5]

The synagogue of Satan was prior to 70 AD as well, just so you know.

I find your fixation and obsession with 70AD astonishing given the fact of your failure to rightly understand the phenomenon.

 

[Bible_Locket]

I don't think you understand what CV5 is saying there. CV5 is pointing out that Jeremiah 31 has a dual message. He's not excluding Gentiles from it.

Jeremiah 31 is a pivotal Old Testament chapter that transitions from prophetic judgment to divine restoration and the promise of a New Covenant. It begins by affirming God’s everlasting love for Israel, promising that the scattered nation will return to their land, experience joy, and be rebuilt as a people in a restored relationship with God.

The chapter’s central theological contribution is the New Covenant (verses 31–34), where God declares He will write His law on human hearts rather than on stone tablets. This internal transformation ensures that all people, from the least to the greatest, will know the Lord directly, and He will forgive their wickedness and remember their sins no more.

Key themes include the gathering of Israel from exile, the comfort of Rachel for her lost children, and the assurance of national permanence tied to the stability of the heavens and earth. The chapter concludes with a vision of Jerusalem’s expansion and holiness, emphasizing that God’s commitment to His people is as unbreakable as the natural order.

For intellectual honesty and transparency, I recommend in future you note when you are posting something you sought out and then copied in full using AI.

Google Search

 

[Komentaja]

Heaven and earth passed away and Christ Jesus knew exactly what was about to come upon "this generation" not the generation 2000+ years into the future.

Here it is once again >>>> the "Times of the Gentiles" (Luke 21:24) is the specific historical period of the Roman siege and destruction of Jerusalem from AD 66 to AD 70, marking the end of the Old Covenant age and the trampling of the earthly city by the Roman armies.

The much hated futurism was the view of the entire early church in the 100s and 200s, how come its only recently people discovered this massively important fact that AD70 marked the end of the heaven and earth?

The times of the gentiles DID NOT end in AD70, have you read any history after that? The romans continued dominating the region and the jews revolted AGAIN later with Simon Bar Kokhba.


What you are doing is a crime, show me even one verse that connects the temple's destruction or even the temple or old covenant itself with heaven and earth. I haven't found a single one, which is why this IS a preterist crime scene.

 

[HeIsHere]

The much hated futurism was the view of the entire early church in the 100s and 200s, how come its only recently people discovered this massively important fact that AD70 marked the end of the heaven and earth?

The times of the gentiles DID NOT end in AD70, have you read any history after that? The romans continued dominating the region and the jews revolted AGAIN later with Simon Bar Kokhba.


What you are doing is a crime, show me even one verse that connects the temple's destruction or even the temple or old covenant itself with heaven and earth. I haven't found a single one, which is why this IS a preterist crime scene.

Okay, so long.

 

[OMC]

The much hated futurism was the view of the entire early church in the 100s and 200s, how come its only recently people discovered this massively important fact that AD70 marked the end of the heaven and earth?

The times of the gentiles DID NOT end in AD70, have you read any history after that? The romans continued dominating the region and the jews revolted AGAIN later with Simon Bar Kokhba.


What you are doing is a crime, show me even one verse that connects the temple's destruction or even the temple or old covenant itself with heaven and earth. I haven't found a single one, which is why this IS a preterist crime scene.

Your claim fails because Scripture itself repeatedly uses “heaven and earth” as covenant language for Israel, not planetary physics, and Jesus places the passing of “heaven and earth” inside the same discourse as the temple’s destruction.
Isaiah 51:16 calls Zion the “heavens” and “earth” God established; Jeremiah 4:23–26 uses Genesis‑creation language (“without form and void… no light… mountains trembling”) to describe the destruction of Jerusalem, not the end of the universe;
Jesus ties heaven, earth, Jerusalem, and the temple together as a single covenantal cosmos in Matthew 5:34–35; and in Matthew 24 He predicts the temple’s fall (24:2), says it will happen to that generation (24:34), and then declares “heaven and earth will pass away” (24:35) in the same breath.
That is the verse you demanded: Jesus Himself connects the temple’s destruction with the passing of “heaven and earth.” The “times of the Gentiles” in Luke 21:24 is the trampling period, not the duration of Roman occupation, and Romans 11:25’s “fullness of the Gentiles” is a salvation‑timeline, not a geopolitical one.
Bar Kokhba proves nothing because Jesus never said Jews would never revolt again — He said the covenant world tied to that temple would end, and Hebrews 8:13 says the old covenant was already “ready to vanish away.”

 

[HeIsHere]

In your view, is this the same place where "heaven and earth pass away" or is it something else?

2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."

Yes, I would agree this is also apocryphal, de-creation language, warning about the coming calamity for those who have refused to come to repentance in that time of transition.

Again, we see the prophecy that the old order/temple will be demolished and the new covenant is being installed.
Josephus also records that the Romans used fire widely as they destroyed the city and the surrounding area.

 

[Beekeeper]

"The fox is more intelligent than the dog,
but people choose the dog
because it is faithful."

And that is what passes for high level legit bible scholarship for the supercessionists and RT's.
And a FYI for the viewing audience, this is ALWAYS and forever how these threads wrap up
when dealing with the RT crew.

A whimper and then slinking into the shadows......

The most important thing by far in understanding scripture is faith.

Richard Dawkins is a well disciplined expert in atheism,
yet he has nothing to offer to us here because he has no faith in God.
His loyalty to atheism has compromised his ability to understand scripture.

Fruchtenbaum is a well disciplined expert in dispensationalism,
consequently his interpretations of prophesy are not Jesus based, but Israel based.
His loyalty to earthly Israel similarly compromises his ability to rightly understand prophesy.

 

[Beekeeper]

Your claim fails because Scripture itself repeatedly uses “heaven and earth” as covenant language for Israel, not planetary physics, and Jesus places the passing of “heaven and earth” inside the same discourse as the temple’s destruction.
Isaiah 51:16 calls Zion the “heavens” and “earth” God established; Jeremiah 4:23–26 uses Genesis‑creation language (“without form and void… no light… mountains trembling”) to describe the destruction of Jerusalem, not the end of the universe;
Jesus ties heaven, earth, Jerusalem, and the temple together as a single covenantal cosmos in Matthew 5:34–35; and in Matthew 24 He predicts the temple’s fall (24:2), says it will happen to that generation (24:34), and then declares “heaven and earth will pass away” (24:35) in the same breath.
That is the verse you demanded: Jesus Himself connects the temple’s destruction with the passing of “heaven and earth.” The “times of the Gentiles” in Luke 21:24 is the trampling period, not the duration of Roman occupation, and Romans 11:25’s “fullness of the Gentiles” is a salvation‑timeline, not a geopolitical one.
Bar Kokhba proves nothing because Jesus never said Jews would never revolt again — He said the covenant world tied to that temple would end, and Hebrews 8:13 says the old covenant was already “ready to vanish away.”

You might understand this differently to me, but I notice that in the beginning of Revelation 11 that the temple is not yet destroyed.

Revelation11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Forty and two months is 3.5 years.
Jerusalem is also identified in this chapter in v.8.

 

[Bible_Locket]

The most important thing by far in understanding scripture is faith.

Richard Dawkins is a well disciplined expert in atheism,
yet he has nothing to offer to us here because he has no faith in God.
His loyalty to atheism has compromised his ability to understand scripture.

Fruchtenbaum is a well disciplined expert in dispensationalism,
consequently his interpretations of prophesy are not Jesus based, but Israel based.
His loyalty to earthly Israel similarly compromises his ability to rightly understand prophesy.

Richard Dawkins has gone on the record in saying,he considers himself to be a Cultural Christian.

For me, atheist authors are pathetically amusing. Dawkins, the now dead Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, etc...
Their premise as atheists, there's no evidence God exists!

Then,they write books about what they first insist ,is not real, does not exist.

Worse? People buy them.