Liberal & Christian

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TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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#1
So what's your stance on being liberal and being a Christian? Can it be done while remaining true to God? I once had a liberal Christian tell me in a casual conversation, "I still cuss, drink, and have fun without letting what God would think of me get in the way."

Granted, a lot of us do this, but it's interesting that this particular person unabashedly admitted it. So what are your views on liberalism and Christianity and their relationship with one-another?
 
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MissCris

Guest
#2
If a person doesn't give a hoot what God thinks of them, and they do whatever they feel like doing, then aren't they living for themselves rather than for God, thereby proving that they are NOT actually a Christian at all?

Tons of people CLAIM that they are Christian, when in fact, by their fruit, it's obvious that they either are not what they say, or they're in desperate need of loving correction by their brothers and sisters in Christ.

I don't think a "liberal Christian" can truly exist, based on the above thought process. The Bible instructs us how to live, and anyone who isn't even TRYING to improve their life in accordance with what God wants from us is probably not really Christian at all.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
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#3
If a person doesn't give a hoot what God thinks of them, and they do whatever they feel like doing, then aren't they living for themselves rather than for God, thereby proving that they are NOT actually a Christian at all?

Tons of people CLAIM that they are Christian, when in fact, by their fruit, it's obvious that they either are not what they say, or they're in desperate need of loving correction by their brothers and sisters in Christ.

I don't think a "liberal Christian" can truly exist, based on the above thought process. The Bible instructs us how to live, and anyone who isn't even TRYING to improve their life in accordance with what God wants from us is probably not really Christian at all.
I think you're right. It seems ironic that the wise will accept correction when they are the least in need of it, and the foolish will do everything in their power to ignore even the mention of correction. How can you reason with a fool to make him wise?

Just a personal observation I've wanted to get off my chest.
 
Jul 25, 2005
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#4
To be clear, you are speaking of an emphasis on Christian liberty in your walk and not actual political liberalism, correct? I ask this in the interest of keeping the thread on track.
 
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Jordache

Guest
#5
That's not liberty, that's bondage. All Christians are liberal---liberal is rooted in freedom. Liberal is not immoral.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
26
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#6
To be clear, you are speaking of an emphasis on Christian liberty in your walk and not actual political liberalism, correct? I ask this in the interest of keeping the thread on track.
I've wondered about this, myself, but the original topic assumes that someone with a liberal up-bringing in their morals would make the kind of decisions which are intrinsic to a liberal political mind. For instance, stem-cell research, pro-choice, increased socialism, etc. I consider liberals free-thinkers, but I, myself, am a free-thinker and I don't agree with a lot of their conclusions.
 
S

Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#7
That's not liberty, that's bondage. All Christians are liberal---liberal is rooted in freedom. Liberal is not immoral.
I agree, although a liberal attitude is definitely liable to lead to wickedness. Liberalism in itself is not a sin, yes. Cussing, drinking, etc. and "not letting what God thinks get in the way" is, on the other hand - as Cris pointed out - not a Christian attitude, on the other hand.
 
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Relena7

Guest
#8
So what's your stance on being liberal and being a Christian? Can it be done while remaining true to God? I once had a liberal Christian tell me in a casual conversation, "I still cuss, drink, and have fun without letting what God would think of me get in the way."

Granted, a lot of us do this, but it's interesting that this particular person unabashedly admitted it. So what are your views on liberalism and Christianity and their relationship with one-another?
I'm not a very political person, but I can give my best shot at an answer. =)

From the way I see it, we are already "liberal" compared to Christians 2 hundred years ago. And we're certainly more liberal than the Amish. If you are reading this that means you are using a computer, which they would never allow. Women can wear pants instead of dresses now days, and wear makeup, and pray with their heads uncovered without being considered "sinners". We use electricity and technology, and science, and get fancy medical treatments when we're ill. Things which might have been banned for religious reasons years ago (or still might be in some communities).

People divorce, and aren't shunned by the whole world over it anymore.

These changes on their own alone aren't the things that can make any person further from God, it's the things we do with these advantages that can turn our hearts away from Him. If we use the internet for bad reasons, rather than good reasons, there's a big difference right there.

It's all about using "liberal attitudes" and "free-thinking" for the right reasons.
 
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Timofree

Guest
#9
We shouldn't judge our life by the worlds standard.........but by God.

A lot of what the world calls freedom leads to death, getting drunk, drugs, fornication, gossip, lying etc. God won't force us to do the right thing, and choose life though.

We have freedom from the law, and there is no condemnation for us in Christ. But it makes more sense to follow God's way, both now and for eternity. We have to stand before Christ and give account for our actions on earth after all.
 

Matthew4Jesus

Senior Member
May 7, 2011
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#10
God is unchanging. You are a Christian, or you are not.
 
Jul 25, 2005
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#11
I've wondered about this, myself, but the original topic assumes that someone with a liberal up-bringing in their morals would make the kind of decisions which are intrinsic to a liberal political mind. For instance, stem-cell research, pro-choice, increased socialism, etc. I consider liberals free-thinkers, but I, myself, am a free-thinker and I don't agree with a lot of their conclusions.
I think there is a strong connection: accept the state as some sort of demi-god and plenty of other "fun" things are suddenly permissible. However, I am not willing to absolutize the connection for multiple reasons. Part of it has to do with experience, and the other with theory.

You will find that Christians that are more politically minded also tend to have more of a worldly bent. I have known my fair share of conservative evangelicals who go into politics that end up drinking, swearing, and the like. As I cited in a previous thread, there are politicians who vote and speak the right way, but go home and do ungodly things.

As for the concept of free-thinking. Actual free-thinkers are a rare breed. Most people, liberal, conservative, and independent either march in lock-step with a certain pattern of belief or suffer intellectual laziness and brag while sitting on the sidelines. We all like to believe we are free thinkers, but more often we are slaves to men who have been long dead or fairly close to death's door.

Much of the problems you site have to do with Christian immaturity in our modern age. Those who repeatedly do things outside the bounds of Christian liberty; I do not believe they are Christians as assuredly as I believe those who I sequentially question the nature of our friendship are indeed not my friends. Those who flaunt their Christian liberty before others fail to take into account the cultural context and personal humility.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
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#12
I'm not a very political person, but I can give my best shot at an answer. =)

From the way I see it, we are already "liberal" compared to Christians 2 hundred years ago. And we're certainly more liberal than the Amish. If you are reading this that means you are using a computer, which they would never allow. Women can wear pants instead of dresses now days, and wear makeup, and pray with their heads uncovered without being considered "sinners". We use electricity and technology, and science, and get fancy medical treatments when we're ill. Things which might have been banned for religious reasons years ago (or still might be in some communities).

People divorce, and aren't shunned by the whole world over it anymore.

These changes on their own alone aren't the things that can make any person further from God, it's the things we do with these advantages that can turn our hearts away from Him. If we use the internet for bad reasons, rather than good reasons, there's a big difference right there.

It's all about using "liberal attitudes" and "free-thinking" for the right reasons.
So a better question would be: are most liberal Christians true to God? ;)

I agree that it all depends on how you use your free-thinking. I believe God is looking for real worshippers, and for those of us who have chosen God out of our freedom of will we have chosen to aspire to a certain level of moral fiber that we might not otherwise strive for.

While I believe we may be more liberal in some aspects of our moral outlook on life, it is okay to be liberal within reason. For instance, shunning technology is a personal choice that the Amish have valid reasons for in a society with an increasingly secular slant on the media. But it is not commanded by God.

Cross-dressing is something that is actually prohibited by God (Deuteronomy 22:5), so no matter how liberal our moral outlook is we must either reconcile ourselves with God or reject him. But even look at the clothing worn by both men and women back then. They had very similar clothing, but there were still differences - just as there are similarities in our clothing (i.e. pants) but different ways the pants conform to our bodies.

What it comes down to is that there are some people who say, "That regulation was made for such-and-such a reason which is no longer valid today, and that's why I don't observe it." And then there are people who say, "I'm going to give God the benefit of the doubt because I don't know everything, and maybe by obeying God's regulations and meditating on them I'll discover his greater truths." Can you imagine what those Israelites, who just thought God's regulations were a bunch of silly hubub, missed out on? I don't think we'll be seeing them in God's kingdom.
 

ada

Banned
Aug 25, 2011
402
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#14
That's not liberty, that's bondage. All Christians are liberal---liberal is rooted in freedom. Liberal is not immoral.
That is baloney and only your secular opinion.
 

ada

Banned
Aug 25, 2011
402
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#16
from yale an elite university conducted by rich jews, like harvard or princeton

Baruch de Spinoza (1632-1677)—often recognized as the first modern Jewish thinker—was also a founder of modern liberal political philosophy. This book is the first to connect systematically these two aspects of Spinoza's legacy. Steven B. Smith shows that Spinoza was a politically engaged theorist who both advocated and embodied a new conception of the emancipated individual, a thinker who decisively influenced such diverse movements as the Enlightenment, liberalism, and political Zionism.

Focusing on Spinoza's Theologico-Political Treatise, Smith argues that Spinoza was the first thinker of note to make the civil status of Jews and Judaism (what later became known as the Jewish Question) an essential ingredient of modern political thought. Before Marx or Freud, Smith notes, Spinoza recast Judaism to include the liberal values of autonomy and emancipation from tradition. Smith examines the circumstances of Spinoza's excommunication from the Jewish community of Amsterdam, his skeptical assault on the authority of Scripture, his transformation of Mosaic prophecy into a progressive philosophy of history, his use of the language of natural right and the social contract to defend democratic political institutions, and his comprehensive comparison of the ancient Hebrew commonwealth and the modern commercial republic. According to Smith, Spinoza's Treatise represents a classic defense of religious toleration and intellectual freedom, showing them to be necessary foundations for political stability and liberal regimes. In this study Smith examines Spinoza's solution to the Jewish Question and asks whether a Judaism, so conceived, can long survive.
In other words liberalism is another word for a political correct philosophy and protection for jews building satellite states in other nations where they establish their own godlike status.



The Lithuania Jew, Nahum Goldman (1895-1982), former president of the World Jewish Congress and so part of the Evil Jewish Leadership, said, "Jews are liberals," meaning that his fellow tribesmen were instinctively liberals and progressives and were fervent believers in "progress" and "reform" and the promotion and protection of "civil liberties." In short, that "the Jews" overwhelmingly support the Humanist Agenda and its modern spawn, the Liberal Agenda.

However, the Jewish tendency to support anything and everything that undermines Christianity (that today manifests among other things as the Liberal Agenda) is an ancient tradition. Jewish support of Liberalism goes far back in time. Liberalism is merely a modern formulation of very ancient human tendencies to change the world, to change Creation. Its true source, of course, is found in the earliest time of man's presence on Earth many aeons before the first appearance of the Modern Tribe of Jews in Judaea. It is found in the Garden of Eden immediately after Eve partook of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. However, in respect of its appearance in the racial soul of Jewry its earliest written form is found in the Zohar ("Splendour, radiance"); a group of books called by its modern supporters "a work of unequalled wisdom and spiritual power" and the "most powerful spiritual tool" and considered by them the most important work of the Kabbalah.

The Zohar is a Gnostic treatment of the Torah written in medieval Aramaic and Hebrew. It contains a mystical discussion of the nature of God, the origin and structure of the Cosmos, the nature of souls, sin and redemption, Good and Evil, and related topics. Thus, the Zorah is Jewish mysticism. It is a compendium of scriptural interpretations, Theosophical theology, mythical cosmogony, mystical psychology and anthropology seen through the dark prism of Luciferian Illumination and rendered into practical form by Ahrimanic Intelligence. The Zohar first appeared in Spain in the 13th century and was published by a Jewish writer named Moses de Leon who ascribed it to a rabbi of the second century called Shimon bar Yochai. Who, in the Jewish Myth, hid in a cave for 13 years, studying the Torah with his son, Elazar, during the Roman persecution and was inspired by God to write the Zohar. However, it is more probable that De Leon was the actual author who merely used the rabbi teachings and traditions from Talmudic times and gave them a medieval, Gnostic treatment. However, modern supporters argue that:

"the wisdom available in its pages is older than Creation itself, the text of the Zohar was composed approximately 2000 years ago. It was then that the great Kabbalist Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai revealed the Zohar to his student, Rabbi Abba who transcribed it in the ancient language of Aramaic. In the centuries that followed, the Zohar was often suppressed by religious and secular authorities who feared its power to transform the lives of those who gained access to the sacred writings. The sages of Kabbalah, too, realized that the Zohar must wait until humankind was ready to receive it."

Jewish Conspiracy 22
In other word the ultimate heresy because they view them collective as their own messiah/god..
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
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#17
from yale an elite university conducted by rich jews, like harvard or princeton



In other words liberalism is another word for a political correct philosophy and protection for jews building satellite states in other nations where they establish their own godlike status.





In other word the ultimate heresy because they view them collective as their own messiah/god..
Ada, may I ask why every other post you say something bad about the Jews? Why do you talk down upon the Jews so much? Didn't Jesus die for the Jews, too?
 
Jul 25, 2005
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#18
Ada, may I ask why every other post you say something bad about the Jews? Why do you talk down upon the Jews so much? Didn't Jesus die for the Jews, too?
It is because they are sapping and impurifying all our precious bodily fluids.
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
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#19
It is because they are sapping and impurifying all our precious bodily fluids.
What? Either you were being sarcastic, or I'm missing something...
 
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