Worshipping the Bible is Idolatry!
- Thread starter OldOrthodoxChristian
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Thank you Scott for making my point for me!!! That was exactly my point. The bible is the source of all doctrine, not church councils, popes, or bishops.
It was the fourth century before it was discussed and articulated within the Church, even though the source for that articulation is clearly present from the beginning.
Salvation by faith is also clearly articulated in the book of Romans.
So what are you complaining about?
It was the fourth century before it was discussed and articulated within the Church, even though the source for that articulation is clearly present from the beginning.
Salvation by faith is also clearly articulated in the book of Romans.
So what are you complaining about?
Last edited:
The Bible is not THE source of doctrine. The Bible DOES NOT SAY THAT. The Bible is A source of doctrine, but NOT THE ONLY SOURCE? Why? What does THE BIBLE SAY? THE BIBLE SAYS SPOKEN TRADITION IS ALSO A SOURCE OF DOCTRINE (SEE 2 THESSALONIANS 2:15).
Salvation by faith is clearly articulated in the Book of Romans.
By faith. Not by faith "alone". See JAMES 2:24.
That's what we've been trying to show you. Tradition of men isn't infallible. Only Gods word is infallible.
Your reasoning is complete error because it is circular. It is not based on Gods word. If your reasoning were based on Gods word you would be able to come out of your error. Out from under the authority of what men teach and into the Authority of what GOD teaches.
But an idea is powerful and so is pride. Only the Lord Jesus can destroy these strong holds. Pride is what holds you back from crying out to Him.
It is completely obvious to everyone who reads the bible that Mary is not eternally virgin. There are several passages that show Mary had more children after Jesus. Only those commanded to believe that Mary is ever-virgin by the tradition of men believe she is ever-virgin.
Of course if you admit that though the whole house of cards kind of tumbles down, doesn't it?
Agreed. But the bible is the only infallable source of doctrine. Anything that come's from man's interpretation of nature, experiences, or emotions, OR IS TRADITIONAL, is NOT infallable, and is therefore open to scrutiny. And this includes man's interpretation of scriptures, regardless of WHO that man is.
If your church leaders are perfect, having never sinned, or can provide proof that they have been sent by God, then I will listen to them. Otherwise, they have no claim to be able to interpret the Scriptures any better than anyone else, who has sinned, but nonetheless has the indwelling Holy Spirit within them.
If your church leaders are perfect, having never sinned, or can provide proof that they have been sent by God, then I will listen to them. Otherwise, they have no claim to be able to interpret the Scriptures any better than anyone else, who has sinned, but nonetheless has the indwelling Holy Spirit within them.
It was not completely obvious to the early Church. Since it wasn't taught that Mary had children with Joseph in the early Church, it can't be true. But perhaps you will protest that Matthew 16:18 is NOT TRUE. Your whole house of cards falls down with your belief that "IT WAS TAUGHT RECENTLY", it doesn't have to be TAUGHT IN THE EARLY CHURCH to be TRUE. I can come to the Bible ALL BY MYSELF and I MYSELF DETERMINE WHAT THE BIBLE MEANS. I DO NOT NEED TO LISTEN TO ANYONE ELSE. I, A PROTESTANT, AM THE TRUE TRADITION, AND WHAT I SAY THE BIBLE MEANS, THE BIBLE MEANS.
IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME, YOU'RE WRONG. I CAN OVERRULE HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT TAUGHT THE EARLY CHURCH THAT MARY IS EVER VIRGIN. I DON'T BELIEVE EZEKIEL 44:1-3.
Prove it by references from ALL of the early Church Fathers
Where were Church members who believed in in the first 1000 years of Church? Which Church members
believed Mary was NOT ever-virgin? Could the Church be wrong for the first 1000 years? If it could,
then Matthew 16:18 is false, and you are calling our Lord Jesus Christ a Liar.
The teaching that Mary had relations with Joseph is a tradition of men.
Where were Church members who believed in in the first 1000 years of Church? Which Church members
believed Mary was NOT ever-virgin? Could the Church be wrong for the first 1000 years? If it could,
then Matthew 16:18 is false, and you are calling our Lord Jesus Christ a Liar.
The teaching that Mary had relations with Joseph is a tradition of men.
You are the one that started this thread because you have a problem with esteeming the word of God. God doesn't have that problem and neither do His servants. There use to be another poster that tried to pull this same strange concept of accusing others of this kind of idolatry. Those that have fellowship with the Lord Jesus Christ don't entertain this evil concept that is designed to blaspheme the word and discredit the work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer.
E
he is stuck on religion and tradition. if you notice, he does not read half your posts. and only responds to certain parts. People do this when they have been "trained" in things. they read a few things, think they know what you say, then go off half cocked and can't comprehend why you get upset when you confront them on the issue of not properly responding to you
Is this the same St. Peter who told Jesus that he would die for him and then rejected him three times? Is this the same St. Peter whom Jesus said "get thee behind me Satan? to"?
You say that St. Peter is forgiven. Well so am I. If that is the only requirement for correct interpretation of Scriptures, then what am I lacking compared to St. Peter?
I have the gift of Holy Spirit. Do you deny the ability of Holy Spirit to correctly interpret Scripture?
You say that St. Peter is forgiven. Well so am I. If that is the only requirement for correct interpretation of Scriptures, then what am I lacking compared to St. Peter?
I have the gift of Holy Spirit. Do you deny the ability of Holy Spirit to correctly interpret Scripture?
Last edited:
S
You say that the Bible is the "only source of infallible doctrine", but how are you going to understand what the Bible says, "unless someone guides me (you)?” (Acts 8:31). By saying that man's interpretation is wrong you are condemning yourself because you too are a man, and you are certainly not an ordained teacher or an interpreter who has been chosen by Christ and the Church.
If you had more ambition, power and money, you would likely end up creating your own church, because you don't believe in the One Church. This is the problem with Protestants approach to Holy Scriptures, they believe that you they can appoint themselves as infallible teachers. And this is why there are 25,000 different divisions in the Christian Church and no "Unity of the Faith" (Eph 4).
You are again making a big mistake here because of advance of Christian Relativism and Heresy. You see, in 325 AD, the Nicene Creed was written. This Creed was created in order to lay down the basics of Christianity. The Nicene Creed was created so that nobody (including heretical bishops) could misinterpret the Scriptures and cause Heresy in the Church. When the Protestants reject the Nicene Creed and the Church, they set themselves up to be, "Tossed as by waves, and being carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in regard to deceitful scheming," (Ephesians 4:14)
If you had more ambition, power and money, you would likely end up creating your own church, because you don't believe in the One Church. This is the problem with Protestants approach to Holy Scriptures, they believe that you they can appoint themselves as infallible teachers. And this is why there are 25,000 different divisions in the Christian Church and no "Unity of the Faith" (Eph 4).
You are again making a big mistake here because of advance of Christian Relativism and Heresy. You see, in 325 AD, the Nicene Creed was written. This Creed was created in order to lay down the basics of Christianity. The Nicene Creed was created so that nobody (including heretical bishops) could misinterpret the Scriptures and cause Heresy in the Church. When the Protestants reject the Nicene Creed and the Church, they set themselves up to be, "Tossed as by waves, and being carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in regard to deceitful scheming," (Ephesians 4:14)
Mary (Jesus' mother) was also a sinner, who had other children with her husband Joseph, and never quite understood her son. She and her sons, who did not believe in Him (Jn 7:5) traveled long and sought Him out to bring Him back with them because of the reports they had heard about Him. They thought He was mentally a little off base and had become an embarrassment to them. But Jesus discerned that, as his mother and brothers were without and not able to come unto Him, and made this statement in (Lk 8:21) concerning those that were His mother and brethren...
'My mother and my brethren are those that hear the word of God and do it'
That statement appeared to be a little insulting to His earthly mother and brothers, knowing that He was speaking and referring to those that were gathered from many cities to hear Him speak.
'My mother and my brethren are those that hear the word of God and do it'
That statement appeared to be a little insulting to His earthly mother and brothers, knowing that He was speaking and referring to those that were gathered from many cities to hear Him speak.
You aren't correctly interpreting Scripture. It's not the individual's job. It's the Church's. You think you yourself are "the pillar and ground of the truth". The Bible says otherwise. I am not the truth, nor the pillar (basis) or the ground of the truth. The Church of the living God alone is "the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tm. 3:15). By your private tradition of men (yourself), you falsify 1 Tm. 3:15.
How can someone who denies the Orthodox Church is the True Church know the truth, or have the true Holy Spirit? The Spirit leads people into the Church, not against it (Her) or away from Her (Matt. 16:18).
God bless you.
Completely false. Mary was the first soul to be saved by her Son, Jesus Christ, she is blessed among women, and, next to Jesus Christ Himself, she is the greatest human being who ever lived. She believed her Son, and was made to understand His mission, not misunderstand. You commit the mind reading fallacy, and pretend to know things that cannot be known. None of us were there, so we must rely on valid tradition and valid testimony from the valid (true) Church of God. Outside of the Church traditions is only the false tradition of men. What Scripture says Mary was a sinner? She was saved. Not sinful in any major way. Anyway, it's wrong to try to judge her. Because Scripture commands us to judge not, lest we be judged. It's wrong to disrespect the Mother of God the Son.
Mary is the chief disciple of Christ, because this is what she said of Christ:
Whatever He tells you to do, do it.
Not the words of a "sinner" in any way whatsoever!
All generations shall call Mary blessed. Any generation that does not bless her is lost in its own mind and not blessed by God.