RAPTURE

watchmen · Jun 5, 2009

I see truth not satanic deceptions.

Baruch · Jun 5, 2009

1 Corinthians 13:9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

As I said, brother. You will see one way or another.

It is far righteous to give the call to be ready now than to point to the coming of the anti-christ in the Temple as a sign for believers to be on guard and watchful then.

watchmen · Jun 5, 2009

next_step said:

Revelation 3:10 is your best option your problem is God can keep us from evil as well as temptation with out removing us from the earth.
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

As far as 2nd thess (you said 3 however I have to assume you mean 2 because chapter 3 doesn't adress the rapture at all) actually disproves the pretrib rapture
2nd Thess 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

This teel us that the 2nd coming and the rapture are one the same day and that it is after the anti christ reveals himself.

As far as Revelation 4 there is no mention of any rapture it is about a vision that John had where John himself is caught up to heaven, this is not nor can it be confusded as a reference to the rapture pre mid post or otherwise.

watchmen · Jun 5, 2009

Baruch said:

You will see when the tribulation starts and your still here. Don't let it affect your faith just realize you have got gotten. (not by God but by Satan) God has sent others as myself to share with you the truth, but you would not hear it.

next_step · Jun 5, 2009

watchmen said:

This interpretation makes no sense. Why would they be shaken in mind and troubled if the day of Christ was something to look foreward to (of couse it is from another viewpoint). Its definded in 1. Thess 5.

The day of the Lord is judgement.

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 1. Thess 5,1-3

This is the reason why the Thessalonians were troubled because of a certain fake epistle they received after they heared the message of 1. Thess 5.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
5,10

Thaddaeus · Jun 5, 2009

watchmen said:

hey I ain't no hoe, and I know, cause I used one out in the garden years ago

in thes only the christians are raised but in rev both all all judged has to be two separarte events

NoahsDad · Jun 5, 2009

I wish you knew how to read and stay wioth a subject ,you totally left out the part that plainly states
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Which IS the subject of the paragraph..Now if you knew how to read the english language youd have seen that

NoahsDad · Jun 5, 2009

Thaddaeus said:

The bible NEVER mentions 2 Second comings Just 1 And you aint goin no where

BLC · Jun 5, 2009

NoahsDad said:

If you are still alive and want to go through the tribulation, then I will pray that God would do that just for you and all those that think like you. When Christ comes for His bride we will go up and you can stay and have fun with the tribulation. After all, be it unto you according to your faith (Mt 9:29). If you desire that from God why would God disappoint you? Maybe God will make an exception in His sovereignty for those that believe like you. We will be ready and waiting, looking for His mercy and glorious appearing in the clouds of the air but you and your ilk can go packing up there in them hills somewhere safe and wait it out and don't forget your ammo!

I am only kidding but you really need to wake up and get this right.

watchmen · Jun 5, 2009

Thaddaeus said:

That is true the christians are raise before the Millennium and the sinners are judged after it. How is that supposed to prove the pretrib rapture?

watchmen · Jun 5, 2009

BLC said:

That is so ignorant '' if you want to stay you can but I am leaving before the Tribulation''. It is not your choice it is God and He has told us in His word that we will be here to endure the tribulation.

watchmen · Jun 5, 2009

next_step said:

1st Thessalonians is talking about the post trib rapture in which He is going to burn the earth with unquenchable fire and the unbelievers with it. We are raptured before that which is the wrath (not the tribulation) but we are going to go through the tribulation.
2nd Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
The day of the Lord is a singular day the day of Christ 2nd coming, and it will come as a thief in the night but to the unbelievers only not to the believers the believers is not of the night that that day should over take us as a thief.
1st Thess 5
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
On the day of the Lord the entire earth is going to melt with the unbelievers in it but we will be removed first.
Luke 17
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
And
2nd Thess 1
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
The rapture occurs after the Tribulation before the wrath at the post trib 2nd coming and that is the context of 1st Thess 5:9 not as pretrib theologians teach it.\
1st Thess 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
The wrath to come is the destruction of the wicked by fire at the post tribulational return of Christ not the Tribulation itself.

Thaddaeus · Jun 5, 2009

watchmen said:

I was saying that it was two separate events

watchmen · Jun 5, 2009

Thaddaeus said:

Yes the first resurrection is the resurrection of the just and it occurs after the tribulation and before the Millennium and is immediately followed by the rapture of the living saints, and the second resurrection is the resurrection of the unjust and that occurs after the Millennium. This is a post trib belief, I though you were a pretribber?

MahogonySnail · Jun 5, 2009

Wishful thinking isn't going to rapture anyone lol. In the tribulation it will probably be the pre-tribbers begging for food from the post-tribbers because they thought they would be raptured and not go hungry. The pre-tribbers will be rushing to take the mark of the beast because they are so hungry and need food.

Thaddaeus · Jun 5, 2009

watchmen said:

I am pretrib But I never said that, everyone was saying that it couldn't be separate events that there was only one coming, I was trying and believe i have proven from scriptures that there is two serarate events I don't think we can prove from scriptures when the rapture occurs but I would even go mid-trib before I would go post-trib , because if He is the same God as yesterday God has always delivered His people that was walking with Him, from His wrath. you believe when you want

watchmen · Jun 5, 2009

Thaddaeus said:

There is only one 2nd coming but there is 2 resurrection one for the just and one for the unjust. The 2nd coming is post tribulational and scritpure tell us that the rapture is on ethe same day Jesus returns after the tribulation to destroy the wicked with fire. The destruction of the wicked by fire is the wrath, and it occurs after the tribulation when Christ returns we are rapture after the tribulation at the post trib 2nd coming right befor ethe fire fall. Here is one of many scriptures thatr tell us just that.

Luke 17
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The same day we are removed is the same day Christ returns to destroy the earth with fire, not 7 years before the destruction but the same day as the destruction as plainly stated in scripture.

leendert · Jun 6, 2009

watchmen said:

There is only one 2nd coming but there is 2 resurrection one for the just and one for the unjust. The 2nd coming is post tribulational and scritpure tell us that the rapture is on ethe same day Jesus returns after the tribulation to destroy the wicked with fire. The destruction of the wicked by fire is the wrath, and it occurs after the tribulation when Christ returns we are rapture after the tribulation at the post trib 2nd coming right befor ethe fire fall. Here is one of many scriptures thatr tell us just that.

Luke 17
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The same day we are removed is the same day Christ returns to destroy the earth with fire, not 7 years before the destruction but the same day as the destruction as plainly stated in scripture.

I thought i would post something on this subject,but i cant really ad anything to what you already said.I agree 100%

loveschild · Jun 6, 2009

eric51 said:

The Rapture" is a term that is used by some christians to describe a belief that at some point in time Jesus will come, and all true believers will literally rise up and meet Him in the air and be ferried away to heaven. All non-believers will remain on the earth to be dealt with later. The Apostolic Church teaches that Jesus will come and judge the living and the dead. The righteous will be saved and the unrighteous will suffer eternal ****ation. No one will be left on the earth.

Belief in such a rapture was first taught in the late 1800’s. Some what surprising there is scant agreement among rapture believers as to what exactly will happen or when. One of the passages used to support belief in the Rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Verse 17 says, "Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." This simply speaks about the end of the world when true believers will be saved. Paul's purpose is not to explain the judgment of the living and the dead, but rather Paul is assuring believers that the dead will participate in the Second Coming of Christ. Notice what the first and last verses of the passage say: "But we would not have you be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep…therefore, comfort one another with these words." The words "caught up in the clouds" are used to illustrate how quickly things will transform at the Second Coming of Christ: "We shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:51-52).

Matthew 24:36-44 is also used by some to support belief in the Rapture. It reads in part, "Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left." What thismeans that the righteous will be saved and the unrighteous will be left for destruction (Hell). The conclusion of the passage (verses 45-51) makes this clear: "Who then is the faithful and wise servant whom his master has set over his household to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Truly I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,' and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eats and drinks with the drunken, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the hypocrites. There men will weep and gnash their teeth." Whenever the term "weep and gnash their teeth" appears in Scripture, it refers to those who are in Hell.

Note well that verse 45 begins with the words "who then." This shows us that we are still on the same subject as we were in verses 36-44.This is significant because it illustrates that on the appointed day the righteous are being saved and the unrighteous are going to hell. So, who does that leave on earth? No one.

If we take all of the verses of Scripture that deal with this issue we find that the Rapture is simply not possible. Consider the following:

Jesus will be coming back to earth one more time not two;whereas The Rapture requires a second coming, (the Rapture); and a third coming (the end of the world). Some try to deal with this problem by claiming that the Rapture is not the Second Coming because we meet Jesus in the air and not on the earth. But even the verses used to support the Rapture such as 1 Thessalonians 4:15 speak of it as "the coming", which indicates that it is a coming and a singular event:

1 Thessalonians 4:15: "For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep."
Matthew 24:27: "For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of man."
1 Corinthians 15:22-23: "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at His coming those who belong to Christ."
1 Thessalonians 2:19: "For what is our hope or joy or crown of boasting before our Lord Jesus at His coming?"

Jesus must stay in heaven until that time. That leaves no time for the Rapture before the end of the world:

Acts 3:19-21: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from old."

When He comes He will be coming all the way down to the earth. He won't be hovering over it, as the Rapture requires:

Acts 1:9-11: "And when He had said this, as they were looking on, He was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. And while they were gazing into heaven as He went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, 'Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven."

When He comes He will be coming to judge the living and the dead. Once again if all are going to be judged that would leave no one on earth:

Matthew 25:31-46: "When the Son of man comes in His glory, and all the angels with him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and He will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and He will place the sheep at His right hand, but the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at His right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world'…Then He will say to those at His left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels'..]And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

In conclusion the Scriptures teach us the following:

Jesus will be coming back to earth one more time not two.
Jesus must stay in heaven until that time.
When He comes He will be coming all the way down to the earth.
When He comes He will be coming to judge the living and the dead.

In John 16:13, Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead His apostles into all truth. And yet we find no support for the Rapture in the scriptures. Likewise, the writings of the early Church fathers are silent on the issue. Since some of them were contemporaries of the apostles, we can reasonably assume that they would have known about the Rapture if it were a part of the deposit of faith. The Rapture is also not mentioned in any of the creeds. As we noted earlier, the idea of the Rapture was first taught in the late 1800's. If the apostles and their successors were ignorant of the Rapture for eighteen centuries, it would mean that Jesus lied in John 16. That in itself rules out the Rapture.

I can't read the things that are too long. But I read some. Rapture look in the dictionary. Means we will be lifted up. Close to the end of your long blog was Jesus will be coming to earth. At the rapture Jesus doesn't come to earth. He's up in a cloud and pulls christians up to him. After the 7 years he will come to earth with all his angels and all of us and together we will wipe satan off the face of earth forever. We will live on earth forever and forever. Earth will turn back into the paradise God intended. Thy kingdom come to earth as it is in heaven. God bless u

BLC · Jun 6, 2009

loveschild said:

I can't read the things that are too long. But I read some. Rapture look in the dictionary. Means we will be lifted up. Close to the end of your long blog was Jesus will be coming to earth. At the rapture Jesus doesn't come to earth. He's up in a cloud and pulls christians up to him. After the 7 years he will come to earth with all his angels and all of us and together we will wipe satan off the face of earth forever. We will live on earth forever and forever. Earth will turn back into the paradise God intended. Thy kingdom come to earth as it is in heaven. God bless u

I LOVE IT. You just built me up in Christ and made my heart rejoice in the truth. God bless for that!

RAPTURE

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