Old Earth vs Young Earth

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Old Earth or Young Earth?


  • Total voters
    49
S

shininglight

Guest
#41
On day 1 God created the earth like that, without form and void. It was like that because nothing was created on it yet. These verses tell us how long each day in Genesis 1 was:-
Genesis 1:5
(5) And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Genesis 1:8
(8) And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:13
(13) And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Genesis 1:19
(19) And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23
(23) And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31
(31) And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Each day in Genesis 1 consisted of an evening and a morning a 24 hour period that goes with Exodus 20:11
Exodus 20:11

(11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


I agree that the days were 24 hour days. I also believe that Exodus 20:11 is one of the most damaging verses against the gap view. I did a google search to see what peoples explanation for Exodus 20:11 is and I found this.

Gap theory page - Arthur C Custance - The Meaning of Exodus 20. 11
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#42
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#43
I have sort of been playing young earth advocate so far, but I'm gonna switch gears for a moment. If God creates everything perfect and that is what the Hebrew word bara (create) would imply. Then why was everything without form and void at first? Maybe it BECAME without form and void like the people who believe in the gap theory say?

I used to believe in the gap theory, did for many years. but through alot of study no longer believe it.

Think about what we know today about matter and energy and molecules and everything else. Then think of the massive undertaking it would take to make the earth in just its bare form.
And then think, God did that on the first day.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Here is a verse similar to Genesis 1:2 and it was a result of a judgment. Some gap theorist believe what is being described in Jeremiah 4:23 is what happened in Genesis 1:2. I dont believe that but it is curious that it is similar in description and Jeremiah is describing a judgment.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Plus, what did God tell Noah right after a judgment that destroyed everything?

Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

What did he tell Adam?

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The gap theory is not without merit. As with many theories. If it did not make sense or have some basis of possible fact, it would not be much of a theory. But like I said, I have since recanted. my belief in it.
 

BigFriendlyApologist

Banned [Reason: ongoing "gay Christian" agenda and
May 8, 2012
193
0
0
#44
True..

And this is what I mean. These are based on assumptions. And not proven.
Ah... I guess it depends on what you mean by assumption. On the whole mountain issue, geologists have provided good evidence based off the radioactive material found in various levels of rock or calculated how long it would take certain amounts of pressure to compress various amounts of rock.

People say the grand canyon was formed over many years thousands of years by a river, yet it is proven that

1. The river would have had to flow uphil to even start to form the canyon.
2. The mt st helens disaster proves a canyon like the grand canyon could be made in days, and not millions of years.
Here is something that addresses the Mt. St. Helen's Argument and Some of the Grand Canyon Argument: Creationist Grand Canyon Argument

Here is even more on Colorado River: Creationism = Willful Ignorance
^This type of creationism that they referred to is YEC

There is actual evidence which supports my theory (yes it is a theory, as is all scientific theories of what happened thousands of years ago)
Yep...but scientists tend to support the best theory and the overwhelming concensus is the scientific community is an old world with evolution.

Again I take you to Peter. When he said men in the last days assume things had always happened the same. most science assume things happen the same today as it did 6000 years ago. If radiological decay and many other things were not the same. All modern scientific data is destroyed.

Radioactive decay can be measured by logarithmic equations so unless the laws of physics (and note I say laws, not theories) have changed, they are accurate. Some are accurate to varying degrees to be sure, depending on their time constants and half lives.

We must be looking at different evidence then. I see the flood as causing all the things todays science says took millions of years. It is just a way to disprove God and a creator.
Millions of years in no way disproves God, does it?

while I agree with plants being eaten, I am talking about animals. I do not believe animals ate meat before the fall. Scripture states there will be a time when the lion and lamb sleep together without fear. This is when God restores things to the way they were before the flood.
What about my evidence regarding carnivores before the Fall?

On day 1 God created the earth like that, without form and void. It was like that because nothing was created on it yet. These verses tell us how long each day in Genesis 1 was:-
Genesis 1:5
(5) And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Genesis 1:8
(8) And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:13
(13) And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Genesis 1:19
(19) And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23
(23) And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31
(31) And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Each day in Genesis 1 consisted of an evening and a morning a 24 hour period that goes with Exodus 20:11
Exodus 20:11

(11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


Evening and morning was used as a term multiple times to describe the beginning and end of a certain period of time. As to the issue with Exodus, there is something called an analogy and there was the post made by someone else regarding the wording in Hebrew. Even though you may say:
They are just playing with words to change the meaning of what the verse actually says for it says in 6 days God created everything on earth including the earth.
I tend to respect the opinion of a variety of scholars on this issue.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#45
I tend to respect the opinion of a variety of scholars on this issue.
That depends on which scholars you listen to. There are many scholars who show Genesis1 and Exodus 20:11 to be 6 literal days and they prove it well. The Bible says 6 days, either you believe the Bible or you don't.
 

BigFriendlyApologist

Banned [Reason: ongoing "gay Christian" agenda and
May 8, 2012
193
0
0
#46
That depends on which scholars you listen to. There are many scholars who show Genesis1 and Exodus 20:11 to be 6 literal days and they prove it well. The Bible says 6 days, either you believe the Bible or you don't.
It says six yom which has three different meanings (12 hours, 24 hours, long period of time). Let's look at this logically shall we and see which interpretation holds up better?

Firstly, the overwhelming majority of the scientific community promotes an old earth. People such as Kent Hovind are viewed as jokes. I am sorry if you think that they are actually scientists and it is a view commonly held in the community but that is just blatantly false.

Secondly, let's take the example of Adam naming the animals. How many species of animal are there on earth today? It could be up to 30 million (Wolosz, 1988). Assuming Adam only had to name vertebrates that are specifically mentioned in the Bible as being named by Adam and are alive today (i.e. no dinosaurs or any other creature that is extinct included). Adam would have to name approximately 20 animals an hour for 24 hours straight. This ignores beasts of the field such as dinos (another 900-1000 species), mammals of the ice age, etc.
 
S

shininglight

Guest
#47
I'm actually kind of surprised that the poll is as close as it is. I figured it would have been a lopsided affair in favor of young earth. I think there has been a resurgence in the young earth view over the last few years.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#48
It says six yom which has three different meanings (12 hours, 24 hours, long period of time). Let's look at this logically shall we and see which interpretation holds up better?

Firstly, the overwhelming majority of the scientific community promotes an old earth. People such as Kent Hovind are viewed as jokes. I am sorry if you think that they are actually scientists and it is a view commonly held in the community but that is just blatantly false.

Secondly, let's take the example of Adam naming the animals. How many species of animal are there on earth today? It could be up to 30 million (Wolosz, 1988). Assuming Adam only had to name vertebrates that are specifically mentioned in the Bible as being named by Adam and are alive today (i.e. no dinosaurs or any other creature that is extinct included). Adam would have to name approximately 20 animals an hour for 24 hours straight. This ignores beasts of the field such as dinos (another 900-1000 species), mammals of the ice age, etc.
my faith is not based on science or human logic but, on what the word of God, the Bible. Do you know that not all scientists agree with each other so if you are going to quote scientists you need to quote which ones, there are scientist who prove that the earth is 6000 years old. This is one particular site:-
Browse Media - The Genesis Conflict - English - Amazing Discoveries TV

Do you know that it never rained before the flood?
Genesis 2:5-6
(5) And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
(6) But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

I can just imagine what the scientists of Noah's day would have been saying when Noah said it was going to rain.

 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#49
"In the beginning God created"

That is all that matters, if you want to know more ask God when you get to heaven.
 
G

GRA

Guest
#50
BigFriendlyApologist said:
It says six yom which has three different meanings (12 hours, 24 hours, long period of time). Let's look at this logically shall we and see which interpretation holds up better?
"What part of 'the evening and the morning' do you not understand?" :D

BigFriendlyApologist said:
Firstly, the overwhelming majority of the scientific community promotes an old earth. People such as Kent Hovind are viewed as jokes. I am sorry if you think that they are actually scientists and it is a view commonly held in the community but that is just blatantly false.
~ Kent Hovind gets his scientific information from Christian scientists. The rest is just "common sense"...
~ I personally have a sufficient background in science - particularly in physics and mathematics - such that, I have a very good and detailed understanding of the science behind [virtually, if not actually] *ALL* of the 'points' that Kent Hovind makes in his Creation Seminar. And, as far as I am concerned -- he is correct on the absolute majority of everything he says... (I am specifically referring to the scientific information here.)
~ You don't have to be a doctor to understand good nutrition or proper care of the body. You don't have to be a certified master mechanic to have the 'know-how' to do car repair. And, you don't have to have a doctorate of theology degree to understand the Bible. Anyone can learn these things. Anyone can examine the 'data' and draw their own valid conclusion.


BigFriendlyApologist said:
Secondly, let's take the example of Adam naming the animals. How many species of animal are there on earth today? It could be up to 30 million (Wolosz, 1988). Assuming Adam only had to name vertebrates that are specifically mentioned in the Bible as being named by Adam and are alive today (i.e. no dinosaurs or any other creature that is extinct included). Adam would have to name approximately 20 animals an hour for 24 hours straight. This ignores beasts of the field such as dinos (another 900-1000 species), mammals of the ice age, etc.
Adam did not name every 'species' -- he named every 'kind'...


.

 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
217
63
#51
Trust in Almighty Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah always and forever.

A man can only understand what is within his capacity of "given understanding".

I think there is too much assumption when it comes to Genesis.

Did Yahvah God ever say the earth was only 6000 years old?

There is so much we do not know about the past, and do not need to know.

If you are looking for evidence to believe the Bible to be true then you lack Faith.

If your heart searches for "proof" then it is not secured on the Most High Yahvah God.

I do not care how old the earth is, what does that have to do with anything?

man is seeking the blue prints of Yahvah God.

Why?

Well, they believe they can become gods.

Seriously, they cover their agenda by all the "doubt" .

When you hear things like, "science brings cures for diseases" Well, if we was not so disobedient we would not have disease to start with!!!

Or when you hear them searching for life on different planets......... Why? where do they think they are going.

men have underestimated ALmighty Yahvah God.

Do they not realize that he could take the breath out of them at any moment, but will allow them to self destruct to teach them and those that do not seek to be gods, and humbly wait to be reunited through Yahshua the Messiah with their creator Yahvah God what Rebelling against him brings.

We will witness what happens when man follows evil......................... Repent and accept Salvation.

The ego of the evil agenda is that even when Yahvah God tells us what happens at the end that they continue as though they have any chance of success with their evil rebellion.

Almighty Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah forever and ever so let it be.
 

Ibe

Banned
Apr 29, 2012
78
0
0
#52
My Brother in Christ Jesus, Let me put in a few words here if I may.

Before the Foundation of the world:
There is a very curios saying throughout the Word of God, it is these phrase: "from before the foundation of the world." Apostles Peter, Paul, John, and even Jesus Christ used this phrase. But what does it mean? I mean, how can there be something BEFORE the "foundation of the world"?
Of course it is referring to before the foundations of this world, or better put, before the foundations of this world AGE. It is referring to a dispensation of time before our present one. There are not three separate earths, as one might misunderstand it to mean when the Bible says, for instance: "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea" {Rev 21:1}. It is the same earth, same Heaven, different time. But back to "from the foundation of the world."
There is a key to understanding in that phrase, it is found in the word translated to: "foundation" in our King James Bible. It is the Greek word: "katabole." study deeper into that word. It would have been better translated to "over throw," or, "destruction" as we shall see by it's own definition. Please understand that the below definition for "foundation (Katabole)" does not necessarily apply every time you see the English word "foundation", for there are several different Greek words that translators simply rendered "foundation" and they all have distinct meanings. Further down below, I shall supply all eleven verses in the Bible where the word appears. But let's observe the definition of the word katabole:
foundation: Greek word #2602 katabole (kat-ab-ol-ay'); from #2598 (see below); a deposition, i.e. founding; figuratively, conception: KJV-- conceive, foundation.
Greek word #2598 kataballo (kat-ab-al'-lo); from #2596 (see below) and #906 (see below); to throw down: KJV-- cast down, lay.
This word kataballo is used individually only twice in the Bible:
Every occurrence of kataballo Greek word #2598 in the Bible (KJV):

2 Cor 4:9
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down
[kataballo], but not destroyed (KJV)

Heb 6:1
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying
[kataballo] again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God (KJV)

Greek word #906 ballo (bal'-lo); a primary verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense): KJV-- arise, cast (out), X dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust. Compare 4496.
Greek word #2596 kata (kat-ah'); a primary particle; (prepositionally) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive case, dative case
or accusative case] with which it is joined): KJV-- about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [daily-], down, every, (+far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from ... to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), ... by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution, or intensity.

Hopefully you can see by the in-depth definition of the word translated to "foundation" regarding this study that the word means the overthrow, the destruction of that first earth age and the beginning of the second (our current one). Very little is written in the Bible about that destruction of the first earth age. A couple places that do, are {2nd Pet 3:4-7, and , Jer 4:23-27}. I hope that helps you to understand why there is a division in the middle of {Gen 1:2} across two separate earth ages.
Below, the first earth age is in blue and the second earth age in red:, divided by || for the color blind:
Gen 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
|| And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)

Below is every occurrence of the word katabole (foundation):
Every occurrence of katabole, Greek word #2602 in the Bible (KJV):
Matt 13:35
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. (KJV)

Matt 25:34
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: (KJV)

Luke 11:50
50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; (KJV)

John 17:24
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. (KJV)


Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (KJV)

Heb 4:3
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (KJV)

Heb 9:26
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. (KJV)

Heb 11:11
(THIS ONE IS INTERESTING!)
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. (KJV)

1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, (KJV)

Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (KJV)

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. (KJV)


See my New Thread :"Three Earth Ages"
Hope this Helps
Ibe

"Ibe A Disciple Of Jesus Christ"
"Ibe In His Service"



 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#53
My Brother in Christ Jesus, Let me put in a few words here if I may.

Before the Foundation of the world:
There is a very curios saying throughout the Word of God, it is these phrase: "from before the foundation of the world." Apostles Peter, Paul, John, and even Jesus Christ used this phrase. But what does it mean? I mean, how can there be something BEFORE the "foundation of the world"?
Of course it is referring to before the foundations of this world, or better put, before the foundations of this world AGE. It is referring to a dispensation of time before our present one. There are not three separate earths, as one might misunderstand it to mean when the Bible says, for instance: "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea" {Rev 21:1}. It is the same earth, same Heaven, different time. But back to "from the foundation of the world."
There is a key to understanding in that phrase, it is found in the word translated to: "foundation" in our King James Bible. It is the Greek word: "katabole." study deeper into that word. It would have been better translated to "over throw," or, "destruction" as we shall see by it's own definition. Please understand that the below definition for "foundation (Katabole)" does not necessarily apply every time you see the English word "foundation", for there are several different Greek words that translators simply rendered "foundation" and they all have distinct meanings. Further down below, I shall supply all eleven verses in the Bible where the word appears. But let's observe the definition of the word katabole:
foundation: Greek word #2602 katabole (kat-ab-ol-ay'); from #2598 (see below); a deposition, i.e. founding; figuratively, conception: KJV-- conceive, foundation.
Greek word #2598 kataballo (kat-ab-al'-lo); from #2596(see below) and #906 (see below); to throw down: KJV-- cast down, lay.
This word kataballo is used individually only twice in the Bible:
Every occurrence of kataballo Greek word #2598 in the Bible (KJV):

2 Cor 4:9
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down
[kataballo], but not destroyed (KJV)

Heb 6:1
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying
[kataballo] again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God (KJV)

Greek word #906 ballo (bal'-lo); a primary verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense): KJV-- arise, cast (out), X dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust. Compare 4496.
Greek word #2596 kata (kat-ah'); a primary particle; (prepositionally) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive case, dative case
or accusative case] with which it is joined): KJV-- about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [daily-], down, every, (+far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from ... to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), ... by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution, or intensity.

Hopefully you can see by the in-depth definition of the word translated to "foundation" regarding this study that the word means the overthrow, the destruction of that first earth age and the beginning of the second (our current one). Very little is written in the Bible about that destruction of the first earth age. A couple places that do, are {2nd Pet 3:4-7, and , Jer 4:23-27}. I hope that helps you to understand why there is a division in the middle of {Gen 1:2} across two separate earth ages.
Below, the first earth age is in blue and the second earth age in red:, divided by || for the color blind:
Gen 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
||And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)

Below is every occurrence of the word katabole (foundation):
Every occurrence of katabole, Greek word #2602 in the Bible (KJV):
Matt 13:35
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. (KJV)

Matt 25:34
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: (KJV)

Luke 11:50
50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; (KJV)

John 17:24
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. (KJV)


Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (KJV)

Heb 4:3
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (KJV)

Heb 9:26
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. (KJV)

Heb 11:11
(THIS ONE IS INTERESTING!)
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. (KJV)

1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, (KJV)

Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (KJV)

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. (KJV)


See my New Thread :"Three Earth Ages"
Hope this Helps
Ibe

"Ibe A Disciple Of Jesus Christ"
"Ibe In His Service"



So what you say in your own words is "before the "founding, conception" of the world. So this would be from before Genesis 1:1, before God founded the world. Not sure how you magically create three ages of the earth :p. There is this earth and the new earth in Revelation, that is all God has told us, the rest is speculation. Also if you are suggesting there was a third age where angels were here on earth (i.e. gap concept) and the fall of satan and his demons happened before the Garden of Eden, adam and eve, etc. Then check out what God tells us in Ezekiel 28:
11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him,
"Thus says the Lord God:“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;

Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.


14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.

15You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.


16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

18 “You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.”’”"
 
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TheGrungeDiva

Guest
#54
Personal opinion based on science or on the opinion of those scientists who are non-believers, will without a doubt lead to confusion.
Except that it's not a personal opinion, it's a scientific fact. And there's no confusion. And there are plenty of scientists who accept evolution and are also devout believers.

This is not a matter of debate,
I'll agree with you there. It really isn't a matter of debate. Debating whether or not evolution is true would be like debating whether or not gravity exists. It's really not a matter of belief. Gravity exists if you don't believe in it, and evolution is correct, even if you don't believe in it.

but is a matter of what the Word of God projects as to the truth and verity of what is recorded.
Evolution in no way contradicts what God projects as Truth in Scripture. Anyone who tells you otherwise is tiny-brained.

I wonder who it is that has brain-washed so many otherwise intelligent and well-meaning, loving Christians into thinking that just because something is not historically accurate means it can't be "true." For thousands of years men and women have understood that Myth is the greatest Truth there is. What happened to change all that? Why all the doubters and faithless all of a sudden? And why are they so common among American Christianity?
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#55
The Bible says God created the earth and everything in it in 6 days not 6 million years. It is more important what the Bible says not what sceintists say.
 
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chesser

Guest
#56
for all of you who say its obviously literal, and its only beause odscience we say otherwise, how do you explain the fact that the creation story was taken allegorically many years fefore evolution and the real age opf the earth were discovered? And, GRA, how were there morning and evening before the sun? Also,if snakes could talk back then, how come we dont see any talking snakes today?
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,958
113
#57
To those espousing evolution I have one question - What is the mechanism for speciation? Deists will answer God, and I think they are going in the right direction, because there is simply no evidence for change from one species to another. But I think a real examination of science confirms the Bible, not the atheistic scientists.

I studied science at University (secular) before I became a Christian. It was very profound to walk into biology, and be told that the fossils are dated by the rocks. Then to go to Geology next class and be told that the rocks are dated by the fossils. Circular reasoning at its finest.

As far as one species turning into another - give me one example that the offspring is not sterile. Life created in a laboratory requires intelligence, power and design. Why should the real world of nature be any different?
 
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TheGrungeDiva

Guest
#58
for all of you who say its obviously literal, and its only beause odscience we say otherwise, how do you explain the fact that the creation story was taken allegorically many years fefore evolution and the real age opf the earth were discovered? And, GRA, how were there morning and evening before the sun? Also,if snakes could talk back then, how come we dont see any talking snakes today?
Very true, despite the spelling and grammar errors :)

For thousands of years, Jewish, and after that early Christian, scholars understood that Genesis was NOT literal. It was understood as a collection of stories and allegories, not literal but True in a sense far deeper than facts. It isn't until the late nineteenth century that a few theologians started questioning the traditional interpretations, and claimed it was literal. In time, this "literal" sect caught on and spread, and now we who believe the more traditional way of allegory and myth are called "liberals" and told we "don't believe the Word of God," even though our understanding of the Old Testament is what Jesus himself held. Go figure.
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#59
Genesis was written by Moses during his time looking after sheep before he went back to Egypt. It is not a collection of stories.
 
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chesser

Guest
#60
Genesis was written by Moses during his time looking after sheep before he went back to Egypt. It is not a collection of stories.
is there scriptural proof, is it tradition, or is it because you say so?