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T
What beast is Revelation 13: 16-18 referring to when it says "he," the Second Beast (Revelation 13: 11), causes people to receive a mark?
We could interpret that beast whose mark people receive to be the same beast as the Second Beast causes an image to be made to. In other words, people receive the mark of the same beast to whom the image is made. Revelation 13; 14 says "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."
The beast who was wounded by the sword and its deadly wound was healed is in Revelation 13: 3. "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."
One of the heads of the First Beast described in verses 1-3 was wounded to death but its deadly wound was healed.
To be consistent with verse 2, which refers to the beast empires of Daniel 7, the Lion, Bear, Leopard and the dreadful and terrible fourth beast, the beast whose deadly wound was healed is also a government, a nation or empire. When the Roman army destroyed the temple and much of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., physical Israel received a deadly wound, but the nation called Israel was created in 1948. These events which fit Revelation 13: 3.
So the image that the Second Beast, called the False Prophet, as an office, not as one individual, has people make, is a copy to that head of the First Beast whose deadly wound was healed. The False Prophet causes a copy to be made of physical Israel, or the nation of Israel. Revelation 13: 12 says the False Prophet causes those who live on the earth to worship the first beast whose deadly wound was healed.
This end time prophecy of Revelation 13 in broad strokes is not easy to interpret but its easy to come up with many different interpretations, which different theologies have done.
The False Prophet, the Second Beast, is a group of people, not one individual, and has broad meanings, which can mean that the Second Beast is also the church after the falling away of II Thessalonians 2:3-4 and after the leavening of the church of Luke 13: 21. The False Prophet, as many false prophets leading the church in false doctrines, causes people to worship the First Beast whose deadly wound was healed, that is, physical Israel.
So the copy or image to physical Israel is something that is consistent with the worship of physical Israel by the church, or much of the church.
Revelation 13: 17, saying that no on can buy or sell without taking the mark of the beast, is the part of this broad stroke prophecy that has led dispensationalists to apply their literalist "hermeneutic," or interpretative system to and say it must be a literal chip in the hand or forehead. Its metaphor, though one layer of Revelation 13: 17 may turn out to be more literal, that those who do not take the mark to the first beast whose deadly wound was healed will somehow not be allowed to buy or sell. But the more important mark of the beast has to be a spiritual mark of belonging to the first beast.
Now, we come to another challenge in Revelation 13: 18 which says the number of the beast is 666.
To make sense out of this we petty much have to have an idea of what 666 refers to.
We know from Genesis 1: 26, and Genesis 2: 2-3 that God made man on the sixth day and God rested on the seventh day. Hebrews chaper four talks about the rest of God, the seventh day, into which believers are to enter.
Then Revelation 17: 11 says "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." Which beast is this? This is a general statement, but can be applied to false religion which is presented as metaphor in Revelation 17: 1-11, or Christianity after the falling away.
If man is number six, since God created him on the sixth day, than Revelation 17: 11 can be seen as implying that the beast was first in number six, and then was raised up and put in Christ so he became number seven. But he, meaning many, went into apostasy, mixing the true Gospel with another Gospel or man's understanding with God's doctrines, and moved away from number seven, the rest of God, into number eight. In a way, man went back to number six in mixing false man-made doctrines with the Gospel given by Christ through the Holy Spirit.
So 666 can represent man without God, or man thinking he is accepted by God when he is not accepted. It can be seen as man in number six repeated, or as man as number six trying to climb up into heaven, into the kingdom of God without having on the proper garment, without being known by Christ, because Christ does not know this man, or this group of men, where they have positioned themselves in their faith, in their doctrines (Luke 13: 25).
So, verse 18, by this interpretation, is not referring to a different beast than the Second Beast of Revelation 13, who causes people to worship the First Beast whose deadly wound was healed, causes people to make a copy or image to that same beast, which is part of a theology, and causes people to take the spiritual mark of the First Beast.
We could interpret that beast whose mark people receive to be the same beast as the Second Beast causes an image to be made to. In other words, people receive the mark of the same beast to whom the image is made. Revelation 13; 14 says "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."
The beast who was wounded by the sword and its deadly wound was healed is in Revelation 13: 3. "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."
One of the heads of the First Beast described in verses 1-3 was wounded to death but its deadly wound was healed.
To be consistent with verse 2, which refers to the beast empires of Daniel 7, the Lion, Bear, Leopard and the dreadful and terrible fourth beast, the beast whose deadly wound was healed is also a government, a nation or empire. When the Roman army destroyed the temple and much of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., physical Israel received a deadly wound, but the nation called Israel was created in 1948. These events which fit Revelation 13: 3.
So the image that the Second Beast, called the False Prophet, as an office, not as one individual, has people make, is a copy to that head of the First Beast whose deadly wound was healed. The False Prophet causes a copy to be made of physical Israel, or the nation of Israel. Revelation 13: 12 says the False Prophet causes those who live on the earth to worship the first beast whose deadly wound was healed.
This end time prophecy of Revelation 13 in broad strokes is not easy to interpret but its easy to come up with many different interpretations, which different theologies have done.
The False Prophet, the Second Beast, is a group of people, not one individual, and has broad meanings, which can mean that the Second Beast is also the church after the falling away of II Thessalonians 2:3-4 and after the leavening of the church of Luke 13: 21. The False Prophet, as many false prophets leading the church in false doctrines, causes people to worship the First Beast whose deadly wound was healed, that is, physical Israel.
So the copy or image to physical Israel is something that is consistent with the worship of physical Israel by the church, or much of the church.
Revelation 13: 17, saying that no on can buy or sell without taking the mark of the beast, is the part of this broad stroke prophecy that has led dispensationalists to apply their literalist "hermeneutic," or interpretative system to and say it must be a literal chip in the hand or forehead. Its metaphor, though one layer of Revelation 13: 17 may turn out to be more literal, that those who do not take the mark to the first beast whose deadly wound was healed will somehow not be allowed to buy or sell. But the more important mark of the beast has to be a spiritual mark of belonging to the first beast.
Now, we come to another challenge in Revelation 13: 18 which says the number of the beast is 666.
To make sense out of this we petty much have to have an idea of what 666 refers to.
We know from Genesis 1: 26, and Genesis 2: 2-3 that God made man on the sixth day and God rested on the seventh day. Hebrews chaper four talks about the rest of God, the seventh day, into which believers are to enter.
Then Revelation 17: 11 says "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." Which beast is this? This is a general statement, but can be applied to false religion which is presented as metaphor in Revelation 17: 1-11, or Christianity after the falling away.
If man is number six, since God created him on the sixth day, than Revelation 17: 11 can be seen as implying that the beast was first in number six, and then was raised up and put in Christ so he became number seven. But he, meaning many, went into apostasy, mixing the true Gospel with another Gospel or man's understanding with God's doctrines, and moved away from number seven, the rest of God, into number eight. In a way, man went back to number six in mixing false man-made doctrines with the Gospel given by Christ through the Holy Spirit.
So 666 can represent man without God, or man thinking he is accepted by God when he is not accepted. It can be seen as man in number six repeated, or as man as number six trying to climb up into heaven, into the kingdom of God without having on the proper garment, without being known by Christ, because Christ does not know this man, or this group of men, where they have positioned themselves in their faith, in their doctrines (Luke 13: 25).
So, verse 18, by this interpretation, is not referring to a different beast than the Second Beast of Revelation 13, who causes people to worship the First Beast whose deadly wound was healed, causes people to make a copy or image to that same beast, which is part of a theology, and causes people to take the spiritual mark of the First Beast.
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The only problem with that is
it says , that they should MAKE an image to the beast.
Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
And as for the other part of your statement yes.
People already worship democracy and capitalism in most of the world so it could be symbolic and democracy and capitalism is very Christ like if you think about it. It feeds the poor gives sight to the blind Heal the sick, raises the dead, helps the weak and many other marvels things just like Jesus did.
Will that be his platform ? is that his 7th kingdom and part of the 8th ?
it says , that they should MAKE an image to the beast.
Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
And as for the other part of your statement yes.
People already worship democracy and capitalism in most of the world so it could be symbolic and democracy and capitalism is very Christ like if you think about it. It feeds the poor gives sight to the blind Heal the sick, raises the dead, helps the weak and many other marvels things just like Jesus did.
Will that be his platform ? is that his 7th kingdom and part of the 8th ?
F
I have no idea who these fallen kings are? I can only say that the interpretation that these human manmade empires do not fit the prophetic description that Daniel is given concerning the four beast that rise from the earth, again the kingdom that followed Babylon was Media Persia it is just impossible to equate Media Persia as INFERIOR to Babylon, It would be the equivalent of saying a model T is a more sophisiticated automobile then a 2012 Hummer. The Media Persia kingdom was three times larger, and its military strength was three times bigger...........If you read carefully we see from scripture that the four kingdoms have risen from the lands that these manmade empires occupied.
J
the mark the the beast is in your mind. and the right hand is the work you do!!!! the mark is deceptsion in the mind do you know the false one come's first? the word tells us over and over. 2 thes ch 2 is way to clear. so if you are waiting for christ to come at any monment, you already have the mark. so if you have been tought your going to be raptuerd out. you better wake up and dig out the truth. dont be deceived buy the one soon to come and perform miricals to deceive you. he is saten him self. you can mail me for more info if you feel lead. with love bro jj777
I agree, those that think Yahshua the Messiah will return any day are deceived.
All things will come to pass and first we will witness the false one......
They do not already have the mark, it may be that they will realize the deception as it happens... For Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah's Glory I pray they will....
The pre trib rapture deception is going to shake some into a " i got left behind mode"....... they, I also pray will stay Faithful and realize, it was literal using symbols to explain things...........
While time remains all can Repent and seek the truth...
Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah always and forever and ever.
I think it will be an allegiance to the "new world order" where all will have to denounce their beliefs and yes maybe accept a chip in the name of "peace and safety" so all can be accounted for and no"terrorist" can remain hidden..... and the idea of "terrorists" will not be the man trying to blow up people it will be those who refuse to accept the "new world order"....
They will be seeking out those that Keep the Commandments of Yahvah God and have faith in Yahshua the Messiah, the Bible tells us this openly.
Let it be said that before this day, they will prepare the world through war and other devices..........which is going to be closer to home than any of us have ever witnessed.
They will be seeking out those that Keep the Commandments of Yahvah God and have faith in Yahshua the Messiah, the Bible tells us this openly.
Let it be said that before this day, they will prepare the world through war and other devices..........which is going to be closer to home than any of us have ever witnessed.
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T
"sounds like an Arnold Murray teaching........"
One liner comments are often ambiguous. I had to Google Arnold Murry to get any sense of what this one liner comment might be about.
"Arnold Murray. False Teacher. False Prophet.
Arnold Murray. False Teacher. False Prophet.
Arnold Murray is the pastor of this church, though I would call it a cult. I talked to the station director just to let him know about the man, because the director is a ..."
OK, my longer post about Revelation 6 and the four horses and riders is not a standard church Christian or dispensationalist view of this
prophecy. Therefore, it is said to be the
view of a guy who is described as a false prophet and leader of a cult.
One liner comments are often ambiguous. I had to Google Arnold Murry to get any sense of what this one liner comment might be about.
"Arnold Murray. False Teacher. False Prophet.
Arnold Murray. False Teacher. False Prophet.
Arnold Murray is the pastor of this church, though I would call it a cult. I talked to the station director just to let him know about the man, because the director is a ..."
OK, my longer post about Revelation 6 and the four horses and riders is not a standard church Christian or dispensationalist view of this
prophecy. Therefore, it is said to be the
view of a guy who is described as a false prophet and leader of a cult.
F
while I agree completely that the pretrib rapture escape is a false teaching and in the far future will prove disasterous to those who are deceived into believing it, It is not the mark of the beast!, the mark is not a metaphor, or spiritual language, the bible has clearly described a literal mark, which without it will make it impossible to buy or sell in the territories the anti-christ will have power over, we see clearly from scripture that some areas will escape his dominion (see Daniel 11:41)
the biggest problem I see with interpretation of prophetic writings is when prophecy is hammered into a history it doesn't fit, every generation has tried to hammer the text of Daniel and Revelations into THEIR timeline of the day. Even during the fall of Rome Christians were sure somehow Christ would return as the beast of Rome declined and fell apart
F
I said it sounds like an Arnold Murray teaching because he also takes little stock in equating the clearly written descriptions concerning the mark and the wound to be literal, and equates and interprets them to be metaphor and spiritual. He has a whole strange idea that satan had sex with Adam and Eve and has reinterpreted the whole bible to fit his theory
T
"I said it sounds like an Arnold Murray teaching because he also takes little stock in equating the clearly written descriptions concerning the mark and the wound to be literal, and equates and interprets them to be metaphor and spiritual. He has a whole strange idea that satan had sex with Adam and Eve and has reinterpreted the whole bible to fit his theory."
I know that dispensationalism took over many Christian denominations since the late 19th century. But there are church Christians who are not dispensationalists, such as Reformed people, though generally they are not much interested in end time Bible prophecy. There is also a Remnant of Israel who are not in the churches who do not follow dispensationalism, but are very much interested in end time prophecy. By the Remnant of Israel I do not mean people in the Messianic Judiasm movement.
Dispensationalism starts from a man-made postulate that says all scripture must be given a literal interpretation.
Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,' Bibliotheca
Sacra, 93, October (1936), Charles C. Ryrie, Dispensationalism Today,
1966, and J. Dwight Pentecost,Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965, present the dispensationalist starting postulates. Every statement in the Bible must be given a literal interpretation, the
plain, natural meaning its words imply, so says dispensationalism.
This postulate that ever verse must be seen as literal is not from scripture. Its from a man-made theology which itself began in the 19th century as one among several cults. But it took over so many denominations that people don't realize its still a cult. Giving a literal interpretation to the beasts, the mark, the image, the beast whose deadly wound was healed leads right into false doctrine, sometimes absurd, as with Hal Lindsey's Cobra Helicopter interpretation of the locust-scorpions in Revelation 9: 3. Did Hal's helicopters come out of a literal bottomless pit? Its all an absurd interpretation.
and i think "it's the pin number that most of the earth already have in there forehead",,,,,,,,and that since it's already in everyone's forehead and we were already using it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,were all trying to come up with a "good lie to tell daddy when he comes home",,,,,,,,,,,,,we can make up a whole bunch of fantasy marks of the beast,,,,,,,,,,but the only "real thing we have in our forehead",,,that represents our name and the name of the beast that lets us buy sell and trade is ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"the pin number in your fore-head",,,,,,,,,,,
M
Amazon.com: Last Days Madness: Obsession of the Modern Church (9780915815357): Gary Demar: Books
this book will help you get to grips with the lunacy that is dispensationalism
this book will help you get to grips with the lunacy that is dispensationalism
Thoughts and actions.... The mark is placed IN the hand and IN the forehead, I agree with a few others here that it will be the decision we make in that time.
Revelation speaks of a time when merchants shall rule the earth, I am currently doing a lot of study into the 8th beast of Revelation, as I feel that it is pertaining to OUR TIME now, not something in the distant past.
Granted, I do believe that certain things in Revelation have come to pass, but also that there are many things which are yet to be fulfilled. In essence, Revelation can be a key to the entirety of Scripture.
All I can think of however, is, Come out from among her my people, and be ye separate!
Yah bless
Revelation speaks of a time when merchants shall rule the earth, I am currently doing a lot of study into the 8th beast of Revelation, as I feel that it is pertaining to OUR TIME now, not something in the distant past.
Granted, I do believe that certain things in Revelation have come to pass, but also that there are many things which are yet to be fulfilled. In essence, Revelation can be a key to the entirety of Scripture.
All I can think of however, is, Come out from among her my people, and be ye separate!
Yah bless
P
If the mark of the beast is symbolic then how would that stop you from buying and selling?
Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
If the mark of the beast is symbolic you could say to God in the last day ” I did not receive a mark in my right hand, or in my forehead”
What better way to separate the people of God from the wicked than to have a mark that allows you to be part of the wicked system.
Matt13:30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
49So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
First gather together the tares, and bind them in bundles.
This is the mark gathering the tares into bundles, the angels separating the wicked from among the just.
If the mark of the beast is symbolic then how would that stop you from buying and selling?
Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
If the mark of the beast is symbolic you could say to God in the last day ” I did not receive a mark in my right hand, or in my forehead”
What better way to separate the people of God from the wicked than to have a mark that allows you to be part of the wicked system.
Matt13:30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
49So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
First gather together the tares, and bind them in bundles.
This is the mark gathering the tares into bundles, the angels separating the wicked from among the just.
If the mark of the beast is symbolic then how would that stop you from buying and selling?