When are contraceptives allowed?

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smithbr8

Guest
#1
#1
I know it's a touchy issue and it's the hot topic sometimes, but I want to know honestly- are there any circumstances when contraceptives are permitted? I am against them, however not in every single case.

1. If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant- I understand it's not the child fault, however, I myself have been through a rape and can't possibly imagine having to endure a pregnancy and have a child in the world to remind me of the the incident for the rest of my life.

2. If the woman's life is in danger if she were to go full term- Suppose after discovering she's pregnant, and very early on, the doctor informs her if she delivers, she will die in the process. Is it fair to bring the child into the world without its mother (and sadly- more and more often- without the father)?

3. Suppose a child (age 9-14) gets pregnant from a case of forced incest- should the child be forced to have the child and change their life forever when they never wanted the incest to happen?

If these are worded harshly, I apologize. I am not the greatest with English. :)

God bless! :)
 
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iraasuup

Guest
#2
#2
Are you meaning 'abortions' instead of 'contaceptives'?
 
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smithbr8

Guest
#3
#3
Oh,yes. My English is not great. :) Sorry- Abortions, not contraceptives. Thank you! :)
 
E

episcopotic

Guest
#4
#4
It depends heavily on what you mean by "permitted." Most Christians here are Protestant and therefore do not see themselves as being under an earthly hierarchy, so there's really no question of permission from teachers, elders, etc. So, everything is permitted, though everything has its consequences. Most Protestants prefer to ask: "is it a sin?"

Catholics, however, do have a language of permission. Although many Catholics disagree in practice, "a person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication." In other words, it's not permitted in the sense that if you have an abortion, you're automatically excommunicated. Even in the case of "therapeutic" abortions, your #2.

Even if we ask if God permits it, God permits many things. I know I'm being picky, but people ask questions all the time: Is it ok? Is it a sin? Is it permitted? Is it fair? Even when the question is very precisely phrased, this is a difficult area of discussion. Good luck.
 
Nautilus

Nautilus

Senior Member
#5
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
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#5
smithbr8 said:
I know it's a touchy issue and it's the hot topic sometimes, but I want to know honestly- are there any circumstances when contraceptives are permitted? I am against them, however not in every single case.

1. If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant- I understand it's not the child fault, however, I myself have been through a rape and can't possibly imagine having to endure a pregnancy and have a child in the world to remind me of the the incident for the rest of my life.

2. If the woman's life is in danger if she were to go full term- Suppose after discovering she's pregnant, and very early on, the doctor informs her if she delivers, she will die in the process. Is it fair to bring the child into the world without its mother (and sadly- more and more often- without the father)?

3. Suppose a child (age 9-14) gets pregnant from a case of forced incest- should the child be forced to have the child and change their life forever when they never wanted the incest to happen?

If these are worded harshly, I apologize. I am not the greatest with English. :)

God bless! :)
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I actually agree with all 3 of these and support them fully. I am not willing to force someone to carry a baby they had no part in conceiving nor would I be willing to risk a mother's life for some unborn child. I know if I were married and had to choose between a wife or the child inside her I would pick my wife every time. I certainly wouldnt want to care for a child that resulted in the death of my wife.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#6
#6
Well, to me its either all ok, or not at all ok. I just don't see God up there going 'ok, that baby can be killed... that one can be killed, nope, wrong to kill this one.. but one over here... yeah, not a sin to kill... '. I mean seriously. Divorce is the only sin i know of that God will, at times, over look. And even then it is under tight circumstances.
This is my opinion on the matter. I responded to answer the OP's question. I know others will disagree, and thats fine, just as i did not single anyone out, please don't try to debate me either. I will not respond.
 
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Lucy68

Senior Member
#7
Jan 21, 2011
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#7
No matter how the baby was conceived, it is still a human being.
 
Nautilus

Nautilus

Senior Member
#8
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
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#8
Lucy68 said:
No matter how the baby was conceived, it is still a human being.
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True but if its not the mothers fault I find it cruel to force her to carry around a reminder of her rape for nine months. Also I find it it cruel to make a mother birth a child that might kill her. So it depends who has more value a living breathing human being, or a cluster of cells that will in nine months be a living breathing human being
 
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Lucy68

Senior Member
#9
Jan 21, 2011
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#9
Nautilus said:
True but if its not the mothers fault I find it cruel to force her to carry around a reminder of her rape for nine months. Also I find it it cruel to make a mother birth a child that might kill her. So it depends who has more value a living breathing human being, or a cluster of cells that will in nine months be a living breathing human being
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The 'cluster of cells' is a human being at conception.
 
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Lucy68

Senior Member
#10
Jan 21, 2011
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#10
Nautilus said:
True but if its not the mothers fault I find it cruel to force her to carry around a reminder of her rape for nine months. Also I find it it cruel to make a mother birth a child that might kill her. So it depends who has more value a living breathing human being, or a cluster of cells that will in nine months be a living breathing human being
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I don't think anyone is talking about forcing this poor girl to do anything. It will be her decision. But having worked in a crisis pregnancy center that offers abortion counseling, I can honestly tell you that abortion has many consequences that are not talked about.

There are emotional and spiritual scars that these women carry around for the rest of their lives. Yes, it can be a forgiven sin. But instead of talking about how to deal with regrets, why not talk about alternatives? Like adoption?

There are also physical scars from abortion. Some women cannot conceive later due to scar tissue or other complications from the abortion. And some women die from botched abortions...which is usually relegated to the back page of the newspaper.

Our office has had couples who are unable to have children come in with portfolios of themselves begging us to let them know if a pregnant mom would consider adoption. Nine months seems like a long time to a panicky and desperate young woman, but we older women know how fast 9 months go by.

These couples are willing to take care of all the medical bills and lawyer fees. And the pregnant woman gets to see how happy she is making this husband and wife. I think open adoptions are more popular now....the birth mother and adoptive parents interact. Matter of fact, the adoptive parents can give the mom the emotional support she needs.

In my town, we have a lawyer who takes care of adoptions for a reduced fee. There are some really good adoption agencies out there, but they charge a lot more.

No one is going to MAKE her do anything. But she should carefully consider all the alternatives and all the consequences of her decision. Pregnancy Crisis Centers are wonderful places to go for all the information.

And considering how advanced medical technology is today, a situation where a doctor has to choose between the life of the mother and the life of the baby, is extremely rare.

I read somewhere that a society that refuses to protect it's weakest members, is a doomed society. I hope that doesn't happen to us :( .


 
Nautilus

Nautilus

Senior Member
#11
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
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#11
well i guess adoption works but i wouldnt press it on anyone. If they choose it awesome, if they dont cool, i wont pressure anyone to do somethingthey dont want. And besides I dont think you can count unborn fetuses as members of society.
 
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Lucy68

Senior Member
#12
Jan 21, 2011
2,538
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#12
Nautilus said:
well i guess adoption works but i wouldnt press it on anyone. If they choose it awesome, if they dont cool, i wont pressure anyone to do somethingthey dont want. And besides I dont think you can count unborn fetuses as members of society.
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It doesn't matter if you want to call fetuses 'members of society' or not, they are still human beings.

If not interfered with, what do these 'cluster of cells' become? Human beings. Which makes them human beings at conception.
 
Nautilus

Nautilus

Senior Member
#13
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
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#13
Lucy68 said:

It doesn't matter if you want to call fetuses 'members of society' or not, they are still human beings.

If not interfered with, what do these 'cluster of cells' become? Human beings. Which makes them human beings at conception.
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I disagree, I think life begins at birth and I think I have pretty good support.

Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." The first human life did not begin with the first two particles of dust that God assembled. It didn't even begin when all of the particles of dust were assembled. It began with the first breath.

This is far from the only passage that suggests that life begins with the first breath rather than conception:

-Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

-Ezekiel 37:5 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life."


In fact both the Hebrew and Greek words for "soul" are synonymous with "breath"

-Ruach: Strong's Hebrew: 7307. ?????? (ruach) -- breath, wind, spirit

-Nephesh: Strong's Hebrew: 5315. ??????? (nephesh) -- a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

-Pneuma: Strong's Greek: 4151. ?????? (pneuma) -- wind, spirit
 
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Shaije

Guest
#14
#14
smithbr8 said:
I know it's a touchy issue and it's the hot topic sometimes, but I want to know honestly- are there any circumstances when contraceptives are permitted? I am against them, however not in every single case.

1. If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant- I understand it's not the child fault, however, I myself have been through a rape and can't possibly imagine having to endure a pregnancy and have a child in the world to remind me of the the incident for the rest of my life.

2. If the woman's life is in danger if she were to go full term- Suppose after discovering she's pregnant, and very early on, the doctor informs her if she delivers, she will die in the process. Is it fair to bring the child into the world without its mother (and sadly- more and more often- without the father)?

3. Suppose a child (age 9-14) gets pregnant from a case of forced incest- should the child be forced to have the child and change their life forever when they never wanted the incest to happen?

If these are worded harshly, I apologize. I am not the greatest with English. :)

God bless! :)
Click to expand...
Life is a gift from God, regardless of how we circumstantially got here. And contraception is different than what you are talking about. Contraception: Deliberate (PREVENTION) of Conception or impregnation.
What you are talking about is termination or abortion.
Does rape or incest constitute a death sentence for the child conceived? Do you think given a voice that that little baby would ultimately choose to die because of the manner in which it was conceived wasnt ideal, traditional, or holy in the eyes of humans?
 
Kathleen

Kathleen

Senior Member
#15
Oct 13, 2009
3,570
6
38
#15
smithbr8 said:
I know it's a touchy issue and it's the hot topic sometimes, but I want to know honestly- are there any circumstances when contraceptives are permitted? I am against them, however not in every single case.

1. If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant- I understand it's not the child fault, however, I myself have been through a rape and can't possibly imagine having to endure a pregnancy and have a child in the world to remind me of the the incident for the rest of my life.

2. If the woman's life is in danger if she were to go full term- Suppose after discovering she's pregnant, and very early on, the doctor informs her if she delivers, she will die in the process. Is it fair to bring the child into the world without its mother (and sadly- more and more often- without the father)?

3. Suppose a child (age 9-14) gets pregnant from a case of forced incest- should the child be forced to have the child and change their life forever when they never wanted the incest to happen?

If these are worded harshly, I apologize. I am not the greatest with English. :)

God bless! :)
Click to expand...
I think at the end of the day, abortion is murder. Regardless of how a child is conceived, or what problems it may bring the mother, terminating an unborn childs life is murder.
If the pregnancy is a result of a rape. The childs mother is a rape victim. Does that then entitle her to be a murderer because of this? One sin does not cancell out another. She will always remember being raped, she will always have emotional, mental or physical scars from being raped...and having an abortion will only make them scars more prominent, they will not fade away. An abortion will only lead to greater pain.

In account of number 3 - why should that be limited to 9-14year olds? what if a 16+ year old is raped by a family member and becomes pregnant? is it not okay then?

What I hate is..when a person purpousfully kills a woman, unknowing to them, she is pregnant. The murderer is charged with two counts of muder/manslaughter.
When a mother purposefully kills an unborn child, its legal.

Where is the logic and moral in our society?

-Kath
 
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starfield

Senior Member
#16
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#16
God can make that unborn child become a minister leading people to Him. He can use anyone for His purpose and He values every soul He creates. When He ordains something, no plans of the enemy will be accomplished. He can turn even the most pathetic situation into a blessing. All you have to do is have faith in God. That unborn child, irrespective of their circumstance, might later be a useful member of the society and a source of blessing for someone else, which wouldn't happen if they are aborted. Sometimes medical complications of the mother may necessitate an abortion but I think true love will drive her to sacrifice her life for the baby to live.
 
F

FrankensteinGirls

Banned
#17
Aug 8, 2010
531
3
0
#17
I'm pro choice to a certain extent, though I feel one should use preventative measures such as plan b (morning after pill) to avoid having an abortion.
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#18
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#18
smithbr8 said:
I know it's a touchy issue and it's the hot topic sometimes, but I want to know honestly- are there any circumstances when contraceptives are permitted? I am against them, however not in every single case.

1. If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant- I understand it's not the child fault, however, I myself have been through a rape and can't possibly imagine having to endure a pregnancy and have a child in the world to remind me of the the incident for the rest of my life.

2. If the woman's life is in danger if she were to go full term- Suppose after discovering she's pregnant, and very early on, the doctor informs her if she delivers, she will die in the process. Is it fair to bring the child into the world without its mother (and sadly- more and more often- without the father)?

3. Suppose a child (age 9-14) gets pregnant from a case of forced incest- should the child be forced to have the child and change their life forever when they never wanted the incest to happen?

If these are worded harshly, I apologize. I am not the greatest with English. :)

God bless! :)
Click to expand...

When it comes to an unborn child the bible looks at them as human. I do not care the circumstance of the pregnancy. To kill an unborn baby is murder. Whether it is rape, incest or whatever. Abortion is never ok, and using situations to excuse it shows nothing more than selfishness, hate, and no regard for human life.
"I dont like how I got pregnant. So I am just gonna kill it." Thats what it sounds like to me.
 
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wolfywolfs

Guest
#19
#19
how do you know its not part of gods plan for that child to be aborted and before you say god would not want a baby to die then why are there still births. and more to the point where u will ask why would it be part of your lords plan .
well im always told the only people involved in the lords plan are belivers online everyone else is acting on there own so if a non believer of your god raped a believer and got her pregnant would that not be an interference of the plan so your god will correct that mistake

i apologise incase i offended any1
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#20
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#20
wolfywolfs said:
how do you know its not part of gods plan for that child to be aborted and before you say god would not want a baby to die then why are there still births. and more to the point where u will ask why would it be part of your lords plan .
well im always told the only people involved in the lords plan are belivers online everyone else is acting on there own so if a non believer of your god raped a believer and got her pregnant would that not be an interference of the plan so your god will correct that mistake

i apologise incase i offended any1
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Very going point.

Also, who are WE as sinners to determine if a life has the right to continue living or not? To kill a life because it is an inconvenience to you or a "bad memory" is not at all Godly.
For anyone to excuse abortion needs a reality check. In my opinion being pregnant isnt the problem, but the selfish and cruel ways of the mother is.
 
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