End times madness w Matt. 24 Part 1

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
What makes some of you think Matt. 24 applies to our age or time?

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple

24 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. (Jesus just got done lamenting over Jerusalem in Matt. 23 verse 37, and tells His listeners who were His followers and a crowd in which also consisted of the Pharisees and Scribes. In verse 38, Jesus sums up His rebuke (Matt. 23) to the religious leaders and says Your house is left to you desolate. Jesus is speaking of the temple here, where before this time It was His house, and the social center of Jewish society and worship. But now He calls the temple "YOUR" house...This is significant to take note of, because Jesus will soon destroy it for it will not longer be needed. The ultimate sacrifice will soon fulfill the symbol of the Levitical Laws concerning sacrifice and the priesthood in the person of Jesus Christ. Upon their exit (Jesus and the disciples), the disciples point out the how magnificent the temple is, not realizing what Jesus had just said. So again, Jesus needs to correct their thinking which was a common and on going thing).

2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” (Now place yourself in their shoes! What a dramatic statement and damning thing to say! The disciple still did not get the picture that Jesus had to die a horrible death as the propitiation of our sins. They thought He was bringing an earthly kingdom in which He sit on an earthy throne. Far be it. Jesus was going to completely abolish the Jewish way of life in which they lived for centuries. The Jews lived and breathed the temple and it's religious system in the same way many Americans live and breath sporting events, but they had even more zeal than that. So naturally, when the disciples got alone with Jesus, they asked;

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” (Don't forget the framework in which this question was asked! Which revolves around the temples destruction! It's one big question in regards to Jesus' words concerning the temple, the current day's religious system, the focal point of Jewish society. The disciples wanted to know when [the time], what will the signs be of your coming [to destroy the temple, of judgment], and the end of the age [Jewish age]. The uses the word AGE here, aion [G0165] not world [kosmos, or oikoumene]. What age were the disciples still in? The Jewish age, the age of the old covenant. The weren't asking when the end of the world was, if so, they would have said kosmos or oikoumene. Words and proper translation matters. The disciple must have understood that only God had the power to destroy His former House, it was well protected within the fortified of Jerusalem in which the Jews thought to be impenetrable. Therefore, a large army had to sent by God's hand to destroy, or by His supernatural power, as so they would have known from the past historical accounts. They needed to know the signs of His coming so they could escape the wrath about to be poured upon Jerusalem!)


And Jesus ANSWERS them!

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. (this was true back then as it is today! false prophets, anti-christs Satan was busy at work trying to destroy the newly founded and Spirit filled church before it could get started. There were 3 warring factions within Jerusalem itself, many murders and rebellious talk, especially among certain sects in Jerusalem that were encouraging a revolt against the Beast, the Roman empire corporately and Nero (666) individually. Many conflicts within the Roman empire also prevailed during this time [from Christ's death to 70AD]. But the end is not yet, the END OF WHAT, it doesn't say, so we must stick to context, the end of the Jew way of life, the temple, Jerusalem, natural and fleshly Israel)

7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. (The Beast Roman empire had conquered many nations, they controlled the region. But there where wars within the Empire, almost to the point of almost collapse [I will not get it this deeply, you can search the History of ancient Rome yourself] There where famines back then [Acts 11:28] as there are today and earthquakes [Acts 16:26] and pestilence always follows. These are just the beginning of sorrows, God's wrath has not be unleashed as of yet, and when it is poured out, there will be great tribulation.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. ( The Jews were the driving force behind the 1st Century Christian persecution, Just read ACTS 6 onward. They encourage Roman authorities to help them find, convict and kill the Christian infidels, which is also well document in ACTS, the NT, and external historical accounts.)

10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. ( the 3 factions within Jerusalem fought against each other for control, and also small wars and disputes carried on with the region) 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. (NT passages speak of more then one occasion concern many false prophets already in existence. It was true back then as it is today) 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. (times of lawlessness and revival are well documented through out our whole history) Pray for the world for a revival of Saints and a great awakening of the spiritual dead! 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. (Again, the end of what? It doesn't say, we must stick to the context, the end of persecution, the great tribulation that the Saints had to endure. These Saints were torn apart by wild beast under the command of Nero, they were burned alive at the stake. The greatest siege against the Church is well documented, read about it. Satan did not want the Christian Faith to succeed, but praise God, the gates of hades can not prevail against the Church!, His word rings true 2000+ years later. And yes, persecution of the saints still goes on today, but in the times the 1st Century was the worst. John's Revelation letters to the Saints in Rev. 2 and 3 document and proves what I say. Jesus wanted these saints to hang in there, Christ's warns them not to bow to the pressure and encourage them in their faith because their vindication was coming soon, and if they did, they be overcomers! )

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world (oikoumene -G3625)
1) the inhabited earth 1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians 1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire as a witness to all the nations (ethos - G1484)
1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together 1a) a company, troop, swarm 2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus 2a) the human race 3) a race, nation, people group 4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles 5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

The gospel was preached to the end of the world, their region, the Roman boundaries and beyond:

Roman 1:8 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of
throughout the whole world.


Acts 2:5 5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

Colossians 1:6 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit,[a] as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

and then the end will come. (Again, not the end of the world, the end of Christian persecution by the Jews and in collusion with the Romans.)

The Great Tribulation (Apostle John saw himself in the tribulation with the Saints Rev. 1:9 "I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ,")

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), ( ever since the ultimate sacrificed in Christ was made at the cross, any sacrificed made in the temple was an abomination to God, for God never took enjoyment over animal sacrifices, but only the obedience of our hearts. To offer sacrifices on the alter God paid the ultimate price was a slap in God's face and an act of idol worship. Not only did idol worship take place but also the High priests proclaiming to be God by continuing the act. And the lawlessness one set up an image of himself in the temple itself).


16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. (when the Christians in Jerusalem first saw the Roman army come upon Jerusalem, they left. They fled to the mountain of Pella, God calls the true believing Israel, Christians, to come out of the harlot, fleshly Israel as rendered in Rev. 18:4) 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. (Do Jews live on their housetops today? NO, this is further prove this passage was written to the 1st Century Jews and not us, However, it was written for us) 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. ( I suppose some of the Jerusalem Saints worshiped on the Sabbath back then. For the hung around the temple still. Jesus had to boot them out of there before they got caught up in mixing Jewish customs with their newly found faith in Christ) 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. (I take great comfort in this, non-of-the-less I pray if persecution does comes I can endure to my end) 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. ( the days will be shortened, after Nero Christian persecution subsided quite substantially, up and to the fall of Roman)

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. (this is well documented in the NT, but still is going on today) 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. ( this is judgment language, used in the OT concerning God's judgment upon Egypt and ancient Babylon. Just because it says "the coming of the Son of Man" doesn't mean a physical manifestation of Christ. Read the judgment language of the OT and NT, Psalms 18:9-11 , Isaiah 19:1, Rev 2:5, Rev. 2:16,

Micah 1:2-3 - These are not at all physical or visual comings of God, but of judgment, and this is exactly whats going in verse 27.

The Coming of the Son of Man

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it[d] is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you (to Jesus' audience, not us), this (NOT THAT) generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. (about 36 years, approximately a biblical generation of 40 years. This was Jesus's complete answer the one big question in verse 3).

(I'm cutting this short because I'm tired and i doubt many people will read this any way.)

GET BUSY with Christ's work and stop the END TIMES MADNESS!!
 
Last edited:
Ok that didnt take long..very good Bookends. Id think on 15 you could also add in
the worship of the Roman Standards(with Caesar/god emblem) on the Temple Mount and into the Holy of Holies.

16. if it was worldwide as the futurist say...wouldnt those running out of Judea just run into more of the same? :)
 
What makes some of you think Matt. 24 applies to our age or time?

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple

24 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. (Jesus just got done lamenting over Jerusalem in Matt. 23 verse 37, and tells His listeners who were His followers and a crowd in which also consisted of the Pharisees and Scribes. In verse 38, Jesus sums up His rebuke (Matt. 23) to the religious leaders and says Your house is left to you desolate. Jesus is speaking of the temple here, where before this time It was His house, and the social center of Jewish society and worship. But now He calls the temple "YOUR" house...This is significant to take note of, because Jesus will soon destroy it for it will not longer be needed. The ultimate sacrifice will soon fulfill the symbol of the Levitical Laws concerning sacrifice and the priesthood in the person of Jesus Christ. Upon their exit (Jesus and the disciples), the disciples point out the how magnificent the temple is, not realizing what Jesus had just said. So again, Jesus needs to correct their thinking which was a common and on going thing).

2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” (Now place yourself in their shoes! What a dramatic statement and damning thing to say! The disciple still did not get the picture that Jesus had to die a horrible death as the propitiation of our sins. They thought He was bringing an earthly kingdom in which He sit on an earthy throne. Far be it. Jesus was going to completely abolish the Jewish way of life in which they lived for centuries. The Jews lived and breathed the temple and it's religious system in the same way many Americans live and breath sporting events, but they had even more zeal than that. So naturally, when the disciples got alone with Jesus, they asked;

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” (Don't forget the framework in which this question was asked! Which revolves around the temples destruction! It's one big question in regards to Jesus' words concerning the temple, the current day's religious system, the focal point of Jewish society. The disciples wanted to know when [the time], what will the signs be of your coming [to destroy the temple, of judgment], and the end of the age [Jewish age]. The uses the word AGE here, aion [G0165] not world [kosmos, or oikoumene]. What age were the disciples still in? The Jewish age, the age of the old covenant. The weren't asking when the end of the world was, if so, they would have said kosmos or oikoumene. Words and proper translation matters. The disciple must have understood that only God had the power to destroy His former House, it was well protected within the fortified of Jerusalem in which the Jews thought to be impenetrable. Therefore, a large army had to sent by God's hand to destroy, or by His supernatural power, as so they would have known from the past historical accounts. They needed to know the signs of His coming so they could escape the wrath about to be poured upon Jerusalem!)


And Jesus ANSWERS them!

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. (this was true back then as it is today! false prophets, anti-christs Satan was busy at work trying to destroy the newly founded and Spirit filled church before it could get started. There were 3 warring factions within Jerusalem itself, many murders and rebellious talk, especially among certain sects in Jerusalem that were encouraging a revolt against the Beast, the Roman empire corporately and Nero (666) individually. Many conflicts within the Roman empire also prevailed during this time [from Christ's death to 70AD]. But the end is not yet, the END OF WHAT, it doesn't say, so we must stick to context, the end of the Jew way of life, the temple, Jerusalem, natural and fleshly Israel)

7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. (The Beast Roman empire had conquered many nations, they controlled the region. But there where wars within the Empire, almost to the point of almost collapse [I will not get it this deeply, you can search the History of ancient Rome yourself] There where famines back then [Acts 11:28] as there are today and earthquakes [Acts 16:26] and pestilence always follows. These are just the beginning of sorrows, God's wrath has not be unleashed as of yet, and when it is poured out, there will be great tribulation.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. ( The Jews were the driving force behind the 1st Century Christian persecution, Just read ACTS 6 onward. They encourage Roman authorities to help them find, convict and kill the Christian infidels, which is also well document in ACTS, the NT, and external historical accounts.)

10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. ( the 3 factions within Jerusalem fought against each other for control, and also small wars and disputes carried on with the region) 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. (NT passages speak of more then one occasion concern many false prophets already in existence. It was true back then as it is today) 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. (times of lawlessness and revival are well documented through out our whole history) Pray for the world for a revival of Saints and a great awakening of the spiritual dead! 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. (Again, the end of what? It doesn't say, we must stick to the context, the end of persecution, the great tribulation that the Saints had to endure. These Saints were torn apart by wild beast under the command of Nero, they were burned alive at the stake. The greatest siege against the Church is well documented, read about it. Satan did not want the Christian Faith to succeed, but praise God, the gates of hades can not prevail against the Church!, His word rings true 2000+ years later. And yes, persecution of the saints still goes on today, but in the times the 1st Century was the worst. John's Revelation letters to the Saints in Rev. 2 and 3 document and proves what I say. Jesus wanted these saints to hang in there, Christ's warns them not to bow to the pressure and encourage them in their faith because their vindication was coming soon, and if they did, they be overcomers! )

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world (oikoumene -G3625)
1) the inhabited earth 1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians 1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire as a witness to all the nations (ethos - G1484)
1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together 1a) a company, troop, swarm 2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus 2a) the human race 3) a race, nation, people group 4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles 5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

The gospel was preached to the end of the world, their region, the Roman boundaries and beyond:

Roman 1:8 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of
throughout the whole world.


Acts 2:5 5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

Colossians 1:6 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit,[a] as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

and then the end will come. (Again, not the end of the world, the end of Christian persecution by the Jews and in collusion with the Romans.)

The Great Tribulation (Apostle John saw himself in the tribulation with the Saints Rev. 1:9 "I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ,")

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), ( ever since the ultimate sacrificed in Christ was made at the cross, any sacrificed made in the temple was an abomination to God, for God never took enjoyment over animal sacrifices, but only the obedience of our hearts. To offer sacrifices on the alter God paid the ultimate price was a slap in God's face and an act of idol worship. Not only did idol worship take place but also the High priests proclaiming to be God by continuing the act. And the lawlessness one set up an image of himself in the temple itself).


16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. (when the Christians in Jerusalem first saw the Roman army come upon Jerusalem, they left. They fled to the mountain of Pella, God calls the true believing Israel, Christians, to come out of the harlot, fleshly Israel as rendered in Rev. 18:4) 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. (Do Jews live on their housetops today? NO, this is further prove this passage was written to the 1st Century Jews and not us, However, it was written for us) 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. ( I suppose some of the Jerusalem Saints worshiped on the Sabbath back then. For the hung around the temple still. Jesus had to boot them out of there before they got caught up in mixing Jewish customs with their newly found faith in Christ) 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. (I take great comfort in this, non-of-the-less I pray if persecution does comes I can endure to my end) 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. ( the days will be shortened, after Nero Christian persecution subsided quite substantially, up and to the fall of Roman)

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. (this is well documented in the NT, but still is going on today) 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together. ( this is judgment language, used in the OT concerning God's judgment upon Egypt and ancient Babylon. Just because it says "the coming of the Son of Man" doesn't mean a physical manifestation of Christ. Read the judgment language of the OT and NT, Psalms 18:9-11 , Isaiah 19:1, Rev 2:5, Rev. 2:16,

Micah 1:2-3 - These are not at all physical or visual comings of God, but of judgment, and this is exactly whats going in verse 27.

The Coming of the Son of Man

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it[d] is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you (to Jesus' audience, not us), this (NOT THAT) generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. (about 36 years, approximately a biblical generation of 40 years. This was Jesus's complete answer the one big question in verse 3).

(I'm cutting this short because I'm tired and i doubt many people will read this any way.)

GET BUSY with Christ's work and stop the END TIMES MADNESS!!

Great job in breaking all of this down, i know it took awhile, so I appriete you doing so. Too many ignore plain speech that shows time, and jump the gun with Matthew 24.
 
Bookends. Very nice. I'll bet you and I could go through a whole tin of coffee and wear out a dozen bibles in one afternoon. You are one of a few.

You picked out many things that the majority blow right past. Your approach, sticking to what was said and not omitting, is fab. You missed a few things, but so did we all.

I went to Rome in 2001 after much study to try to get the feel of what it must have been like for early Christianity. I did the catacombs. Put my hand on the relief in the Arch of Titus. Walked the Apean way for a stretch. (you can get killed there now ....vroooom) Read more history while I was there.

All because I started to actually see what Jesus was REALLY saying. It all starts with the approach you are using. Fab.
 
Keep at it BTW. There's more to see. It can all be answered.

Thank you for the encouragement. I've trying to work through some historical writings such as Josephus and others, but it's hard to pull it all together. His writing style is quite difficult for me. Feel free to add please, I thought it was needed to be said and I can't say it all, because there's too much to be said!
 
It-(the end of the age), is like the coming of Jesus; split.
At His first coming they expected Him to take over the world.
So is Matt. 24.
It is a duel prophecy lumped together.
(Leave it to God to make His plans mysterious).
Yes, these are the last days. Never could a kingdom track and trace
every purchase before.
If these aren't the end times, we're the closest to them that we ever have been. (Joke)
 

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” (Don't forget the framework in which this question was asked! Which revolves around the temples destruction! It's one big question in regards to Jesus' words concerning the temple, the current day's religious system, the focal point of Jewish society. The disciples wanted to know when [the time], what will the signs be of your coming [to destroy the temple, of judgment], and the end of the age [Jewish age].

Here is a first part of disagreement. It assumes that the disciples meant Jesus was going to destroy the temple. and thus this is what they meant by his return.

1. Jesus did not destroy the temple. Rome did, just like Daniel 9 prophesied they would.
2. The end of the age, According to daniel, and his prophesies concerning the 4 gentile kingdoms, at this time period we would be under the roman kingdom, or fourth world empire thus we would be under the age of the gentile, not the jew. Paul refered to this when he said that when the time of the gentile has been completed (the end of the age) that Isreal would be saved. I believe this is the "end of the age" the disciples spoke of. Remember they were under Gentile rule, they were slaves to the roman empire, Remember what they believed, That Jesus was going to come and restore the age of Isreal. So they understood they were in the gentile age, as did Paul.
3. It shows they now understood, Jesus did not come this time to do that, but they still believed he would do this, so they asked, what would be the TIME OF YOUR RETURN. return to do what? Fulfil this aspect of the OT prophesies concerning this "end time" when Jesus would come and set up his kingdom.




The uses the word AGE here, aion [G0165] not world [kosmos, or oikoumene]. What age were the disciples still in? The Jewish age, the age of the old covenant. The weren't asking when the end of the world was, if so, they would have said kosmos or oikoumene. Words and proper translation matters. The disciple must have understood that only God had the power to destroy His former House, it was well protected within the fortified of Jerusalem in which the Jews thought to be impenetrable. Therefore, a large army had to sent by God's hand to destroy, or by His supernatural power, as so they would have known from the past historical accounts. They needed to know the signs of His coming so they could escape the wrath about to be poured upon Jerusalem!)

Again, According to the prophesies of daniel, When babylon came to take Isreal captive, we started the gentile age, This age would be seen as having 4 parts, babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome, which would be the larges, crumble into peaces, and at the end of the age be restored greater than it was the first time, and be overthrown by Christ, it was THIS AGE, that the disciples were in.


I will try to answer this in parts so it does not get so large
 
What makes some of you think Matt. 24 applies to our age or time?


GET BUSY with Christ's work and stop the END TIMES MADNESS!!


So do you believe ANY of what the Lord spoke in Matt.24 applies to our time?



.
 
rebuttal to the rest.

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.


This shows that many people will come claiming to be the messiah. How many people in the time between Jesus assention and AD 70 saying they were the messiah? I notice bookend spoke of false prophets, which would not have been unusual in this time period, since there were always false prophets. But how many people actually came claiming to be the messiah? If we look at the past 100 years, how many people have we read about who claimed to be the returning messiah come to take his control, who led many people to their deaths, or how about came to be the prophet who preceded messiah. My point, the last 100 years has had more fulfillment than the 305 or so years in the first centruty.

wars and rumors of wars, Again lookk at the last 100 years, how many wars have there been, yet how many in those 30 some years.





7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.



Kingdom against kingdom. There was but ONE kingdom in those years, Rome, No jew reading this would have understood this to mean in that time frame, for kingdoms did not change, like they have since the fall of the roman empire.The greek word means a part of the world ruled by a king which goes against another part, this did not happen in those 30 some years. Yes, may may have tried to go against rome, but not kingdoms. Jesus did not say many kingdoms would go against rome, but against each others.



Nations, greek word for gentile or non jewish territories which would war against each other.



Again, if we look at it, the last 100 years have seen a MAJOR increase in these things, far more that those 30 some years.







And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.


Here Jesus speaks of hunger, disease and major catostrophic events, All happening not in a particular area, but in many areas, in other words, these will be worldwide events.


Again, look at the last 100 years.
1. Hunger is growing in number, the worlds population is outgrowing the earth capability to support it, Not to mention, Places like Africa, where there is ample ground to grow food, where kingpins and evil rulers keep there people under rule and do not use it, because of it, disease and hunger grow in numbers, Science believes in the next 50 years, there will not be enough food to feed the people.

2. Disease, Look again at the last 100 years, Aids, Antibiotic resistant disease, and many other diseases are growin at amazing rates, and science seems unable to stop it. Not to mention, when they find a cure for one, another pops up
3. Earthquakes, Been listening to the news lately? how many in the last 50 years, and getting more numerous and more powerfull, which brings us to the next part of the passage.


8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.


The greek here is birth pangs, in other words, this is the beginning of the time when labor starts. Anyone who has had a child, or has known someone or seen labor knows that the pains start off slowly, and exponentially gets worse up until the time of childbirth, where they are almost constant.

I believe Jesus used this here to explain a point, All of these things (wars and rumors, famine, disease, natural disasters etc etc) will start off slow. Maybe not even seen by many, but as time goes on they get stronger (more severe) and closer (more numerous) in number. Again, as I have shown, these things did not happen in the first century, and even if they did, they do not compair to the last 100 years., heck even the last 50 years, even today all these things are growing more severe and numerous in number. And we are not even close to seeing the end (in my belief)



9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake


Lets look at revelation, The future prince goes after the woman, who gave birth to Christ (Isreal) but God protects the woman so the beast can not harm her, so what does he do? he goes after her offspring, which is the church. Who is here in who's name sake? Christ. This persecuation will be more severe than any the church has ever seen.


10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.


Many things here
Betrayal even of ones we love will grow, people will be offended by the church (anyone see this today getting stronger?) Brothers will hate brothers (again today??) lawlessness will abound, Since when in the history of the world since Christ has lawlessness been so prevelent in the world. Even in the free world, where there is usually a moral character which is upright, this character is degrading and just getting worse. And the gospel preached into the world., It is foolish to think Jesus just meant the known world. do people realise that today the gospel has reached almost the whole world, not the known world., THE WHOLE WORLD, and many churches have come together in organisations to make sure the WHOLE WORLD hears the gospel. In other words, every nation on earth is at the point where almost every one of them has at least HEARD the truth of the gospel.





15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.


A huge thing, The abomination of desolation, the meaning is an idol, or detestable thing standing in the holy place, or the inner sanctum of the temple. To jews, this idol would be a false God, who is taking the place of the true God of Isreal, for only the true God of Isreal would appear in this inner sanctum, Although God had not been there for MANY YEARS before Christ returned, because Isreal was in sin, They still thought he was, This abomination did not occure in AD 70, Titus did not abominate the temple, he destroyed it, The abomination would be what a leader did long before titus and CHrist, when he brought a pic ( a detestable creature) and sacrificed in in the inner sanctum, Another point to remember, This owuld be a thing everyone could see. Not just hearsay,


Also remember, God said he would protect Isreal. so he told them to run to the mountains, another great parallel to revelation, where the woman is in the mountain protected by God.


21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

Great tribulation. Greek, Distress, trouble, oppression. Greater than ever since the beginning of the world. and never to be topped again.

Those days will have t be shortened, why? if not, no flesh (Jesus did not say no jew, or no nation or group of people, he said no flesh, The word sarx means the flesh, or as in most times it is used, the human body, Jesus is literally saying no human would survive if he did not cut this time period short, or put an end to it. no time in history until the advent of nuclear technology has this even been possible, And it definately was not possible in the 1st century, that is unless you think the last two men on earth would go at each other with swords and possibly kill each other.

What brings this time to an end? For the sake of the elect, Christ will return. Now this is not Isreal, for they were already protected, this is the church, Jesus goes on to say he whoendures to the end will be saved. In other words, whoever survives this great tribulation will have their life spared by the return of Christ.


We also have OT prophesies which speak of this. The time of Jacobs trouble, Or the time when a great affliction such as has never been seen before occures on earth, And it ends with the cry of Jacob to God to spare them, There repentnance, Gods destruction of gentile nations (the end of the gentile age) and the restoration of ALL Isreal into her land, Where non other than king david (Christ) will sit on the throne, Isreal will live in peace and have no enemies.


I believe these men who asked Christ this question would have understood Daniels significance, and the significance of the time of troube to understand what Jesus meant.

1. The end of sin for Israel and them restored as prophesied in daniel
2. The destruction of the gentile kingdoms (see also romans 11, the end of the age of the gentile has been completed)
3. The time of jacobs trouble, A time of great tribulation such has never been seen before, and in the end the return of the messiah (as promised to david) to set up his kingdom, Isreal restored to her land from all over the world, and a time of peace.


They want us to see this as past history, But I hope many will see now why I can not believe that. The times they say these things happend were pale as per todays standards, and we see these things happening today on a greater frequency and power which has never been seen on earth. Not to mention, many of the things could not have happened then, no matter how they try to explain it away.
 
Also two of the three gospels just say "I am".
As in the Great "I Am" Hath sent me.
Only one of them says "I Am Christ".
How many spurious denominations have arisen in the name of Jesus Christ in the last 1400 years?

Just another thing to consider.
 
I meant 140 years.
So many it is hard to count, look them up.
"In the last days many will come in My name saying 'I Am'."
Or, the great "I Am" has sent me.
 
So do you believe ANY of what the Lord spoke in Matt.24 applies to our time?

There maybe some parallelism going on, I'm not sure tho. To say that I think would be pure speculation. Prophets and Apostles didn't claim prophecy fulfilled until they actually were.

Perhaps Matt. 24:35 to the end of the chapter is future, because it seems to that Matt. 24:4-34 Jesus claims they'll know when the time is close and they can see the season in which destruction is near. After Jesus seem to change gears and says no will know the day or hour. Matt. 24:35 ---> is a bit more unclear to me. I don't feel comfortable tackling it at this time.
 
EG a few points here for one the time of Jacobs trouble was fulfilled in Babylon
and it wasnt 7 years..it was 70.

You say Jesus didnt destroy Jerusalem Titus did.
In Isaiah 13 God put judgement on Babylon He called it "the day of the Lord" with
language like this v.10 For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light.

sound familiar? He said He would bring down the armies from heaven.....fact is the Medes did the work. So did God really do it EG?
He said He would.

Same situation with the judgement of Egypt...same language. Just as Isa 13 and Mathew 24.

EG the fact that we can hold up all of Matthew 24 and say see this is all going on isnt a convincing thing
we could go back in history before Christ and say the same thing.

I totally agree with you that revelations for the most part parallels with Matthew 24. :)
 
Bookends im still pondering that people say from v35 on is future, ive
always found that hard to take. Just because the flow doesnt seem to me
to take a turn. Even tho they wouldnt know the day or hour they are told
to watch....watch what? well the signs He just gave of coarse. But i dont
have a problem with it being future either.

This doesnt mean we dont have future things to be fulfilled just because
we dont accept the warnings about the destruction of the city and sanctuarys
destruction as future events to happen.

I believe we should take Peters eschatology as a reference in 2 Peter 3:10-13
 
Lot's of speculation, but bookends is stil the closest. Hey bookends... look for the division between where Jesus is answering to what.

By that I mean, He didn't start out with an answer to their questions. First, He warned them what NOT to view as something to get worked up about. He had to do that because they were going to have to flee Jerusalem at precisely the right time, during the temporary withdrawl of the Roman army. They had to 'endure till the end', not get spooked by the false prophets yelling 'wars.. pestillence... the sky is falling' and leave Jerusalem prematurely. Or esle, they could be up in the mountain wondering what the heck they are doing living like that when things were good in Jerusalem. 'Maybe we should go back... '

Jesus told them the precise moment. Then they had to get out with the shirt on their back. That would have been tough, especially for a pregnant Jewess or one having little kiddies.

Anyway, look for the shift in thoughts. They are there.

Like any good orator (THE BEST) Jesus could make a point. And if you know anything at all about speaking in front of others, then there's a construct to follow.

Find the construct. It's there. You'll be amazed. (You're half way there!)

Hint, after the warning, He answeres the questions in order. Then he has a sort of summary where he uses a juxtaposition/illustration.

Super orator I call Him.

Oh, and He does tell us today that some of what He is saying is for us.

I don't want to give you an overload. You have to see this stuff on your own. Like when Jesus asked Peter "Who do YOU say I am?" Peter had to use his noggin. And of course the Spirit will help you.

BTW. Few will see this. But those few... OH those few.
 
There maybe some parallelism going on, I'm not sure tho. To say that I think would be pure speculation. Prophets and Apostles didn't claim prophecy fulfilled until they actually were.

Perhaps Matt. 24:35 to the end of the chapter is future, because it seems to that Matt. 24:4-34 Jesus claims they'll know when the time is close and they can see the season in which destruction is near. After Jesus seem to change gears and says no will know the day or hour. Matt. 24:35 ---> is a bit more unclear to me. I don't feel comfortable tackling it at this time.

One thing which might help. the word you is not in the origional text. but was interpreted.

English says you will hear. the greek word is just hear, in the present tense, in other words, at the present time these things are happening, you will hear of these things. even in their days, they heard of them, but it does not mean it was just directed at them.

also note. He did not tell them to run to the hills, or do anything, he said let them. Jesus knew these words would be written, Thus anyone who read those words, it would be directed at them.

we see the exponential increase of the things Jesus said, So when we read "will hear" present tense, it could most definately be speaking to us.