End times madness w Matt. 24 Part 1

[eternally-gratefull]

Lot's of speculation, but bookends is stil the closest. Hey bookends... look for the division between where Jesus is answering to what.

By that I mean, He didn't start out with an answer to their questions. First, He warned them what NOT to view as something to get worked up about. He had to do that because they were going to have to flee Jerusalem at precisely the right time, during the temporary withdrawl of the Roman army. They had to 'endure till the end', not get spooked by the false prophets yelling 'wars.. pestillence... the sky is falling' and leave Jerusalem prematurely. Or esle, they could be up in the mountain wondering what the heck they are doing living like that when things were good in Jerusalem. 'Maybe we should go back... '

Jesus told them the precise moment. Then they had to get out with the shirt on their back. That would have been tough, especially for a pregnant Jewess or one having little kiddies.

Anyway, look for the shift in thoughts. They are there.

Like any good orator (THE BEST) Jesus could make a point. And if you know anything at all about speaking in front of others, then there's a construct to follow.

Find the construct. It's there. You'll be amazed. (You're half way there!)

Hint, after the warning, He answeres the questions in order. Then he has a sort of summary where he uses a juxtaposition/illustration.

Super orator I call Him.

Oh, and He does tell us today that some of what He is saying is for us.

I don't want to give you an overload. You have to see this stuff on your own. Like when Jesus asked Peter "Who do YOU say I am?" Peter had to use his noggin. And of course the Spirit will help you.

BTW. Few will see this. But those few... OH those few.

lol. thanks for your OPINION. but I think it is not even close.

then again, I guess some roman person could have launched a nuclear strike over the world and killed off all flesh.. oh wait, that could not have happened.

Jesus said, as you see me leave, so you will see me return. Jesus said in matt 24 we would see him in the clouds, not only this, when he comes EVER nation of the earth will mourn his comming. this has not happened yet, and jesus said THIS even will end the time of tribulation. so don;t say it happened in 70 AD the only thing which happened in 70 ad is the FIRST even prophesied by daniel, the city and temple was destroyed. The things Daniel said would follow this event is what you see in matt 24.

notice the orders in dan and matt 24 go together, the destruction first, then the end, when Christ will return.

 

[Abiding]

discussing eschatology always make me hungry for beef jerky
try one there yummy

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Time of jacobs trouble

Jer 30

Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
(Time of great tribulation such as has never been seen before)
But he shall be saved out of it. (he who endures to the end will be saved) 8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day, (the day of the lords return)
Says the Lord of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck, And will burst your bonds; Foreigners shall no more enslave them. Gentile nations destroyed, their time is up, Isreal restored)
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, (Isreal will repent and serve God, no longer playing the harlot with other Gods)
And David their king, (This is not David, this is Jesus)
Whom I will raise up for them.

‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.

When Isreal returns, they will live in peace, God will destroy their enemies, and no one will be able to harm them. This has NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE)
11 For I am with you,’ says the Lord, ‘to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,

Gentile nations punished for mistreatment of Isreal)
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
(jesus will not let the nation of bloodline of natural Isreal disappear)
But I will correct you in justice,
And will not let you go altogether unpunished.’


God will punish them for their current sin, which is happening even today,



read the rest of this prophesy,


God says he will severely punish Isreal, her land will be forgotten (it was until the 1950's) but one day, God will restor her to her first love, punish the world, and restor her to her land and she shall live in peace, this is NOT THE CHURCH, the church was never promised any of this.

 

[Abiding]

If i wanted to do the work we could compare Jeremiah with Hebrews
But it comes down to understanding that the Old Covenant has been fulfilled and done away.
And all the promises are fulfilled in the new covenant through Christ.

the prophet wrote: "In those days and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness unto David, and he shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell securely..." (Jer. 33:15-16a)

Heb 12:22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Jacobs trouble is over..fulfilled.

Luke 24:44And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Luke 18:31 Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.

 

[Abiding]

Time of jacobs trouble

Jer 30

Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
(Time of great tribulation such as has never been seen before)
But he shall be saved out of it. (he who endures to the end will be saved) 8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day, (the day of the lords return)
Says the Lord of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck, And will burst your bonds; Foreigners shall no more enslave them. Gentile nations destroyed, their time is up, Isreal restored)
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, (Isreal will repent and serve God, no longer playing the harlot with other Gods)
And David their king, (This is not David, this is Jesus)
Whom I will raise up for them.

‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.

When Isreal returns, they will live in peace, God will destroy their enemies, and no one will be able to harm them. This has NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE)
11 For I am with you,’ says the Lord, ‘to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,

Gentile nations punished for mistreatment of Isreal)
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
(jesus will not let the nation of bloodline of natural Isreal disappear)
But I will correct you in justice,
And will not let you go altogether unpunished.’


God will punish them for their current sin, which is happening even today,



read the rest of this prophesy,


God says he will severely punish Isreal, her land will be forgotten (it was until the 1950's) but one day, God will restor her to her first love, punish the world, and restor her to her land and she shall live in peace, this is NOT THE CHURCH, the church was never promised any of this.

This is hapenning now if you could for a moment look aside from you dual covenant dispensational view
1 cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet

Hebrews 2:8 and put everything under his feet." In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.

Also when Jesus has put all things under His feet it will be resurection day and judgement day and the eternal state.I Cor 15
no talk about rapture...7 year thing..1000 year kingdom...nothing. Peter doesnt talk about it, nor does Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If i wanted to do the work we could compare Jeremiah with Hebrews
But it comes down to understanding that the Old Covenant has been fulfilled and done away.
And all the promises are fulfilled in the new covenant through Christ.

the prophet wrote: "In those days and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness unto David, and he shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell securely..." (Jer. 33:15-16a)

Heb 12:22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Jacobs trouble is over..fulfilled.

Luke 24:44And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Luke 18:31 Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.

No, that would not work.

1. The old covenant never saved anyone, even the jew was not saved by the OLD covenant, thus Isreal was never about the old covenant.
2. Isreals promise was not according to the mosaic covenant, but concerning the palestinian covenant given Abraham.
3. The mosaic covenant lead us to the messianic covenant (in you shall all the nations of the world be blessed) thus had nothing to do with Isreal being in her land or not.
4. Jacobs trouble speaks of Isreal being punished for her sin, (by Gentiles) then being restored, ONLY after she as a nation repents. It is NOT about having her sins payed for by her messiah, it is about her repenting as a nation, and about her being punished for her own sins. If it was about Christ, she would not be punished for her own sin, Christ would have paid that for them.

Jacobs trouble parallels matt 24 in many ways, But it speaks of Isreal only. For if you look at it, It says JACOBS trouble. I am not a child of Jacob, I am a child of abraham, through his son Christ.

I could go on and on and on

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is hapenning now if you could for a moment look aside from you dual covenant dispensational view
1 cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet

Hebrews 2:8 and put everything under his feet." In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.

Also when Jesus has put all things under His feet it will be resurection day and judgement day and the eternal state.I Cor 15
no talk about rapture...7 year thing..1000 year kingdom...nothing. Peter doesnt talk about it, nor does Jesus.

1. I was never promised to have a king, while I live in the land promised my fathers, and having the "son of david) as my king.
2. Take my dispy glasses off? why don;t you take your amil glasses off and look at the promises. The only way the church could have "taken over" the promises given to abraham Isaac and jacob ius to be living in the promised land, Which Christ as my king, and have no enemies. This was NEVER promised to the church, Yet Jeremiah said this is EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

As jeremiah said:
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.

Who will he save from afar?
Who from the seed of jacob will be saved from their land of captivity
Who shall return? and where twill they return to
who will have rest, and quiet, and HAVE NO FEAR OF ANY ENEMIES?

I think if we dig deep and really look at everything, we see who has their blinders on.

 

[Abiding]

No, that would not work.

1. The old covenant never saved anyone, even the jew was not saved by the OLD covenant, thus Isreal was never about the old covenant.
2. Isreals promise was not according to the mosaic covenant, but concerning the palestinian covenant given Abraham.
3. The mosaic covenant lead us to the messianic covenant (in you shall all the nations of the world be blessed) thus had nothing to do with Isreal being in her land or not.
4. Jacobs trouble speaks of Isreal being punished for her sin, (by Gentiles) then being restored, ONLY after she as a nation repents. It is NOT about having her sins payed for by her messiah, it is about her repenting as a nation, and about her being punished for her own sins. If it was about Christ, she would not be punished for her own sin, Christ would have paid that for them.

Jacobs trouble parallels matt 24 in many ways, But it speaks of Isreal only. For if you look at it, It says JACOBS trouble. I am not a child of Jacob, I am a child of abraham, through his son Christ.

I could go on and on and on

EG who was the covenant given to to Abraham? You think it was too all Israel...right?
The children of the flesh?

What does Paul mean when he said all Israel will be saved? Does he mean also the children of the flesh?

Jacob was punished...put a fork in it.

 

[apocalypse]

Matthew 24
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

The last phrase "the beginning of birth pains" is a metaphor. Like 'kill two birds with one stone'. It means 'false alarm'. When waiting for a child, the screams of a woman having birth pains might cause outsiders to think a child has come. However, 'birth pains', in fact only the "beginning of", demonstrates that there is going to be time. This fits in well with the context where Jesus admonishes his listeners that they should not be "alarmed".

Yes, wars, rumors of wars, nation rising against nation, famines and earthquakes were normal fare, as were the "strange and terrifying things coming from the sky" (Luke 21:11 Good News Trans.) ...frightening astronomical events that they didn't understand as we do now, one more thing Luke's account adds, that caused many people to act foolishly, thinking the 'end of days' was upon them.

What a fine piece of advanced information they had. No frenzy for Jesus disciples. Just endurance until the sign he gave, 15 “You will see a sinful man-made god standing in the house of God in Jerusalem." (Mt 24:15 New Life Version)

Luke goes farther...

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Rome's armies were on the way. When the dsiciples saw Rome's army undermine the temple wall and get inside with their false gods, then they had to get out of Jerusalem. All who remained were slaughtered like cattle or taken as slaves, or killed as entertainment.

It all fits. And Josephus gives testimony.

 

[Abiding]

1. I was never promised to have a king, while I live in the land promised my fathers, and having the "son of david) as my king.
2. Take my dispy glasses off? why don;t you take your amil glasses off and look at the promises. The only way the church could have "taken over" the promises given to abraham Isaac and jacob ius to be living in the promised land, Which Christ as my king, and have no enemies. This was NEVER promised to the church, Yet Jeremiah said this is EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

As jeremiah said:
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.

Who will he save from afar?
Who from the seed of jacob will be saved from their land of captivity
Who shall return? and where twill they return to
who will have rest, and quiet, and HAVE NO FEAR OF ANY ENEMIES?

I think if we dig deep and really look at everything, we see who has their blinders on.

Ephesians 2:11-22

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both(jew and gentile) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Please comment if youd like. dual covenant folk always think of the church as gentiles...why? beats me!

 

[Abiding]

Matthew 24
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

The last phrase "the beginning of birth pains" is a metaphor. Like 'kill two birds with one stone'. It means 'false alarm'. When waiting for a child, the screams of a woman having birth pains might cause outsiders to think a child has come. However, 'birth pains', in fact only the "beginning of", demonstrates that there is going to be time. This fits in well with the context where Jesus admonishes his listeners that they should not be "alarmed".

Yes, wars, rumors of wars, nation rising against nation, famines and earthquakes were normal fare, as were the "strange and terrifying things coming from the sky" (Luke 21:11 Good News Trans.) ...frightening astronomical events that they didn't understand as we do now, one more thing Luke's account adds, that caused many people to act foolishly, thinking the 'end of days' was upon them.

What a fine piece of advanced information they had. No frenzy for Jesus disciples. Just endurance until the sign he gave, 15 “You will see a sinful man-made god standing in the house of God in Jerusalem." (Mt 24:15 New Life Version)

Luke goes farther...

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Rome's armies were on the way. When the dsiciples saw Rome's army undermine the temple wall and get inside with their false gods, then they had to get out of Jerusalem. All who remained were slaughtered like cattle or taken as slaves, or killed as entertainment.

It all fits. And Josephus gives testimony.

I agree with all but the astrological events...im sure they knew this type of judgement talk from
past recorded judgements on Babylon and Egypt

Howl Ye; For the Day of the LORD is at Hand...(Isaiah 13:6)
Isaiah

Isa 13:10-13 KJV For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. 11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
Isaiah prophesied during 745-695 BC and described metaphorically the destruction of the Babylonian Empire, which existed from 606-536 BC.

The actual method of Judgement used by the Lord was explained in Isaiah 13:17-19. ‘...Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them

Isa 19:1 KJV The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it


The Indignation of the LORD...(Isaiah 34:2)
Isaiah

Isa 34:3-4 KJV Their slain also shall be cast out and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. 4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

The Great and the Notable Day of the LORD...(Acts 2:20)
Joel
Joe 2:28-31 KJV And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Act 2:20 KJV The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Peter preached the fulfilment of Joel's prophecy on the Day of Pentecost...Acts 2:17-21. Not only did Peter's generation witness the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, they were given the opportunity to repent before impending '...great and the terrible day of the LORD...' at Christ's Return. The Lord's method was the Roman Army.

The Day of Judgment and Perdition...(2 Peter 3:7)
Jesus

Mat 24:29-30 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Jesus used the same metaphoric phraseology as the Old Testament Prophets when He described the pending Judgement at His Return.

On that '...great and the terrible day of the LORD...' Jesus used the Roman Army to fulfil His prophecy.

Ill stop there...there are many more that show judgement language using astrological metaphors, the
use of the day of the Lord, the term world, comeing iin clouds...all which a lot of people take literally...but the past
proves it isnt and the audience Jesus was talking to knew that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG who was the covenant given to to Abraham? You think it was too all Israel...right?

Which covenant, He was given two. You seem to continue to wish to ignore this.

What does Paul mean when he said all Israel will be saved? Does he mean also the children of the flesh?

It means what it says, That those who are not gentile, who are currently our enemy according to the gospel, but beloved because of the promises. That has been cut off so the gentiles can be grafted in, And who has been partially blinded until the time of the gentile has been complete. I think we both know what this means, one of us however, is hardening his heart.

Jacob was punished...put a fork in it.

He is being punished, As Jeremiah and MANY ot prophesies. But it also says he will repent, be brought back into his land, and live in peace.

Put a fork in it? dude I respect your belief, and You because I know we teach the same gospel, and we both will be in heaven, But comments like this will go quickly in me losing respect for you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ephesians 2:11-22

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both(jew and gentile) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Please comment if youd like. dual covenant folk always think of the church as gentiles...why? beats me!

IN YOU SHALL ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD BE BLESSED. One covenant made between God and Abraham, No Jew, No Gentile, 100% concerning the gospel. Fulfilled by Christ and his death on the cross.

I GET IT. The jew DID NOT GET IT, Paul had to fight these jews who thought they were in because of their nationality, WHICH IS WHY HE CONTINUALLY MADE COMMENTS LIKE THIS. to REFUTE THEIR FALSE GOSPEL.

We are NOT TALKING ABOUT THE GOSPEL, we are TALKING OF THE PALESTINIAN COVENANT. which NO PERSON WAS EVER GIVEN A PROMISE TO BE SAVED, HAD NO SALVIC SIGNIFICANCE. And WAS ONLY GIVEN TWO THE NATURAL CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM RECONFIRMED WITH ISSAC and RECONFIRMED ONCE AGAIN WITH JACOB.

NON OF THESE SALVIC PASSAGES YOU KEEP TRYING TO SHOVE DOWN MY THROAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS COVENANT.

And how can you sit there and tell me I think the church is GENTILE? When I have continually said THE CHURCH IS NEITHER JEW OR GENTILE?

Stop looking at what I believe from dispensational view as you were taught. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THEM!

FOrgive me for yelling, But what do you expect, You tell me to put a fork in it, Then claim I will say something I HAVE NEVER BELIEVED!

 

[Abiding]

Which covenant, He was given two. You seem to continue to wish to ignore this.



It means what it says, That those who are not gentile, who are currently our enemy according to the gospel, but beloved because of the promises. That has been cut off so the gentiles can be grafted in, And who has been partially blinded until the time of the gentile has been complete. I think we both know what this means, one of us however, is hardening his heart.

He is being punished, As Jeremiah and MANY ot prophesies. But it also says he will repent, be brought back into his land, and live in peace.

Put a fork in it? dude I respect your belief, and You because I know we teach the same gospel, and we both will be in heaven, But comments like this will go quickly in me losing respect for you.

put a fork in it means its done...how would that offend you EG?
2 covenants? really? And that would be one of salvation? and one for land? is that for the children
of the flesh? if so why in the heck would God do that?

Why were they cut off? because they didnt believe. All were cut off so all could receive mercy.
Jacobs trouble is over with, they came back from Babylon. Hardness comes from unbelief as a judgement
this was a temp thing and partial (not counting the children of the flesh) till the fullness of the Gentiles came into the church. Happened 2000 yrs ago.

The time of the gentiles had been completed. I think you mean the fulness of the gentiles, which
also was complete when they were grafted in and received full citizenship and blessing in the church.
And before the end of the age..in 70ad

I gave scripture showing the peace. I showed Heavenly Jerusalem. The new covenant.

 

[apocalypse]

I agree with all but the astrological events...im sure they knew this type of judgement talk from
past recorded judgements on Babylon and Egypt

Howl Ye; For the Day of the LORD is at Hand...(Isaiah 13:6)
Isaiah

Isa 13:10-13 KJV For the stars of heaven and the constellations ...

I think you missed the point bro. You are looking at the wrong verses. The discussion of Jesus coming in power is in verse 29-30 of Matthew 24. We are not there yet.

We are discussing that which pertains to the fall of Jerusalem. The warning about false prophets and their 'fear mongering message is Mt. 24:4-8, Mark 13:6-8, and Luke 21:8-11

Jesus is talking about what the disciples sitting with Him on the mount of olives would experiance before they had to flee. Don't confuse the two halves of the discourse. That's the most common mistake bible readers make.

The warning, and that is what it was, a warning and not a sign, was about common things that meant nothing.

Verse 29-31 of Matthew and Luke 21:25-28 begin with the discussion of Jesus coming with all His angels.

This is clear when you examine the context of all three accounts, Matthew Mark and Luke.

If you adhere to the old philosophies of these texts, you pile unanswered question on top of unanswered question.

 

[Abiding]

IN YOU SHALL ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD BE BLESSED. One covenant made between God and Abraham, No Jew, No Gentile, 100% concerning the gospel. Fulfilled by Christ and his death on the cross.

I GET IT. The jew DID NOT GET IT, Paul had to fight these jews who thought they were in because of their nationality, WHICH IS WHY HE CONTINUALLY MADE COMMENTS LIKE THIS. to REFUTE THEIR FALSE GOSPEL.

We are NOT TALKING ABOUT THE GOSPEL, we are TALKING OF THE PALESTINIAN COVENANT. which NO PERSON WAS EVER GIVEN A PROMISE TO BE SAVED, HAD NO SALVIC SIGNIFICANCE. And WAS ONLY GIVEN TWO THE NATURAL CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM RECONFIRMED WITH ISSAC and RECONFIRMED ONCE AGAIN WITH JACOB.

NON OF THESE SALVIC PASSAGES YOU KEEP TRYING TO SHOVE DOWN MY THROAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS COVENANT.

And how can you sit there and tell me I think the church is GENTILE? When I have continually said THE CHURCH IS NEITHER JEW OR GENTILE?

Stop looking at what I believe from dispensational view as you were taught. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THEM!

FOrgive me for yelling, But what do you expect, You tell me to put a fork in it, Then claim I will say something I HAVE NEVER BELIEVED!

There are scriptures that tell when they can come back to their land and they are all conditional.

There also were laws laid down what they were to do with the residents that would be there when
they did come into the land.

Not one requirement was followed before coming into their land and not one law has been followed
on how to deal with residents that would be their.

My belief is that these scriptures tell us whether or not 1948 is according to scripture or not.

Since no scripture has been followed you can guess what my thoughts are on Israel(the present nation)
Not true Israel...which has always been and always will be the believing remnant. For not all Israel is Israel.

 

[Abiding]

I think you missed the point bro. You are looking at the wrong verses. The discussion of Jesus coming in power is in verse 29-30 of Matthew 24. We are not there yet.

We are discussing that which pertains to the fall of Jerusalem. The warning about false prophets and their 'fear mongering message is Mt. 24:4-8, Mark 13:6-8, and Luke 21:8-11

Jesus is talking about what the disciples sitting with Him on the mount of olives would experiance before they had to flee. Don't confuse the two halves of the discourse. That's the most common mistake bible readers make.

The warning, and that is what it was, a warning and not a sign, was about common things that meant nothing.

Verse 29-31 of Matthew and Luke 21:25-28 begin with the discussion of Jesus coming with all His angels.

This is clear when you examine the context of all three accounts, Matthew Mark and Luke.

If you adhere to the old philosophies of these texts, you pile unanswered question on top of unanswered question.

I didnt miss the point..maybe you did..i did respond to what you said the audience thought about
astrological events Jesus referred to.

And i gave references to God coming in the clouds and other language found in Matthew Mark and Luke
Which refer to Judgement and not a physical coming. So i dont look at verses 29-35 and on as future,
but as part of a fulfillment in 70ad...and its not a mistake.

 

[apocalypse]

Well, here comes the questions. Are earthquakes normal? Are food shortages normal? Is pestillence normal? Should the disciples see these things and act upon them? What should they do? Flee? They knew they had to. Should they run now, since there's earthquakes?

How does an event that you portray as supernatural fit in with the mundane.

Of what value was it to the disciples to know there were going to be earthquakes. What, they didn't already know about earthquakes and food shortage etc?

What sense does one make with the analogy that Jesus would tell them about earthquakes? And they were to what? Where is the benefit?

How does the discourse not become a disjointed mess when one jumbles mundane events with supernatural? And what were the supernatural? How did earthquakes matter if there is supernatural? I wouldn't need to hear "and ye shall see the grass grow and the cows moo and fisile material burning in the distance shaped like a large bright mushroom"... Seems the grass growing and the cows mooing have little to add when there's a nuke going off nearby.

I'm just getting going too.

They were then warned they would suffer persecution. How does that context abide with a 'supernatural event in the heavens, which by the way I have yet to have anyone ever describe to me. Perhaps you can suggest something.

By the way, the context I am discussing in Luke 21:11 is way different than the texts you have brought in from older Jewish prophecies. OK. The both might have "sky" in them. Don't get me going on that one.

 

[Bookends]

Bookends im still pondering that people say from v35 on is future, ive
always found that hard to take. Just because the flow doesnt seem to me
to take a turn. Even tho they wouldnt know the day or hour they are told
to watch....watch what? well the signs He just gave of coarse. But i dont
have a problem with it being future either.

This doesnt mean we dont have future things to be fulfilled just because
we dont accept the warnings about the destruction of the city and sanctuarys
destruction as future events to happen.

I believe we should take Peters eschatology as a reference in 2 Peter 3:10-13

Yeah I ponder it too, but I lean more to future because it sounds like everyone's having a good time, like back in Noah's day. I'm not sure if anyone was having a good time back in the 1st century besides the Romans. Back in Noah's day, did they have a sign a flood was coming? Well, maybe they did, they had Noah telling them it was coming and they saw the ark being built. I guess that could be a sign. Anyway, everyone seems to be carrying on just as if everything is hunky-dory. So is Jesus is telling us or them watch our step in that we don't fall into the trap of sin before He comes again, or comes to take away a lampstand? He did rebuke the 7 Churches in Revelation 2 and 3, so maybe you are right. But then we have this parable of the faithful and evil servant starting at verse 45 seems to support what I just said about watching our step before He comes in the 2nd advent because we don't know when He's coming. It could work both was I suppose.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

put a fork in it means its done...how would that offend you EG?
2 covenants? really? And that would be one of salvation? and one for land? is that for the children
of the flesh? if so why in the heck would God do that?

do we have to read it all over again?

1. In you shall all the nations of the world be blessed. How is this going to happen? Who did it happen by?

all the nations are blessed by the offer of eternal life through Christ, who came from who?? Abraham??

2. And to you AND YOUR DESCENDANTS after you, I give this land as an ETERNAL covenant.

To who? all nations? To all peoples? To gentile and jew. Concerning salvation? The answer would be a resounding NO to all of the questions asked.

Why would God do that? I don;t know. why don't ask him. I am not in the place where I would question God as to how he does things.

Why were they cut off? because they didnt believe. All were cut off so all could receive mercy.

Yes they were cut off. And Paul said they WOULD be put back in, But again, you refuse to see this.

Jacobs trouble is over with, they came back from Babylon. Hardness comes from unbelief as a judgement

Oh is this so? So they lived in their land under THEIR KING, they had NO ENEMIES, and lived IN PEACE? oh wait, no they did not know that. You keep saying it was fulfilled, But in order for it to be fulfilled the thing which followed would have to be FULFILLED,

Not to mention. PAUL SAID THEY WILL STILL IN UNBELIEF. I guess it is STILL IN EFFECT would you not say? especiialy since they are to beloved because of the fathers.. why? The promise still stands!

this was a temp thing and partial (not counting the children of the flesh) till the fullness of the Gentiles came into the church. Happened 2000 yrs ago.

Fulness of the gentiles came as the church?? DO WHAT? who just a few posts ago said that I WOULD SAY the church was the gentile?? wow.. who is backsliding now??

The fullness of the gentile DID Not happen when romans was written. Paul said so.. The gentiles are the four kingdoms, is the final gentile kingdom ended yet? if it did, why are we still here??

The time of the gentiles had been completed. I think you mean the fulness of the gentiles, which
also was complete when they were grafted in and received full citizenship and blessing in the church.

lol, Well you continue to believe that. I will believe what the OT states, the fullness of the gentiles will come in WHEN CHRIST DESTROYS THE GENTILE NATIONS, Just like Jeremiah, Daniel and othe prophets said it would!!

And before the end of the age..in 70ad

What age? the church age started at the ressurection of Christ, what age ended in AD 70? Many gentiles were already grafted in by 70 AD, in fact there were more genitle believers than jewish at this time. how would I believe this is the end of the age? talk about going WAY out there>

I gave scripture showing the peace. I showed Heavenly Jerusalem. The new covenant.

No you showed me what is promised to ALL PEOPLE. I am promised that kingdom, I am promised that city, I am a gentile. Jerusalem and palestine was NOT PROMISED TO ANY GENTILE. thus YOU CAN't fulfill a promise in that way.