Can someone lose their salvation?

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I understand what your saying about being sealed at one point, why if one is going to go into apostasy was he ever sealed to being with?

But that brings me to the question of what is the sealing? It says of the holy Spriit of promise. So the promise, is the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38-39) which says "ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, for the promise is unto you and all who are afar off".

If this is true, the promise, a resurrection and eternal life. The seal is what is set on/in us to show we belong to God. If we choose to live in sin, then is the seal still there?

Notice these passages:
Isa 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Of course this is only from a repentant heart. But what if he did not repent? see verse 11.

So just as the Physical temple was said to be God's dwelling place. They sinned, he left the temple.

The temple was a type. We are now the spiritual temple of God, and he now dwells in us. Literally or Representative indwelling, does not matter, what matters is that that HS is said to be given, and dwell in the Christian. The seal is the promise of Eternal life, if we have the HS in us.

But just as sin caused God to leave the physical temple, and sense it was a type, then is that true with the true image, the spiritual temple of God?

God left the Physical:
Eze 8:6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary

He also destroyed it in 70 AD

What about the spiritual temple of God. Will he leave it? Will he destroy it?
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Implication, we must do as God said and be holy - because the temple is holy, and we are the temple.

I know how many try to explain these passages away. However, I think they are plain, and there meaning. The immediate context in no way changes the meaning here.

So it would seem to me, that we are sealed, unless we choose sin. Since God does not dwell where sin is, how could he have fellowship with us, dwelling in us, if we have sin at the same time? IF we are the temple now, and those who defile the temple will be destroyed, then it seems that we lose our seal as we lose his indwelling.

This is how I understand it.
 
Yes i think ill have to change my position again. Ha wow its been a tiring day.
I think i was allowing my sentiment to drive my theology.

i could use a break from this for awhile. Before entering the threads today
i was already overwhelmed with days of nonstop, threads and convos based
on losing your salvation.

Im not real young in my faith. Fear and dread doesnt sit well with me.
And does little to motivate me in my walk. The Faithfulness, and Love of God to Keep me does.
But im not one to think we can leave out part of the message.

And it also was brought out that there are false teachers leading
folks into a false hope. For that reason this must be taught. Not so much about losing
your salvation, but what salvation is and the mechanics of it to make it
effectual.

Ive bantered around explaining the misuse of certain scripture to make
certain points...but what the use. It just makes some think..im into sin.
A good nites sleep will help alot...i did enjoy the dialogue Feedm3
 
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ReinItIn said:
abiding,

Christ died to reconcile us to God and to remove sin.

I'm not demonizing anyone.. I'm speaking to false application of once saved always saved as I have seen it applied.

one example of once saved always saved being arrogance and sin of presumption i have seen is.

I grew up with a girl that her parents and church believed once saved always saved. at the age of 8 she gave into their pressure and said the sinners prayer and they baptized her. She became a crack addict, was involved in prostitution, worked for a physic hot line, hated christian's and drank herself to death. Christ could save her if she repented and reconciled to him in her last hours. I do not know if she did.. only he does.. At her funeral they spoke about her being baptized and saying the lil prayer with them when she was 8 and assured everyone she was saved because they witnessed her asking Jesus into her heart.

that is not sound doctrine to me. that is presumption and arrogance..

unfortunately i have seen many example where people wouldn't walk with Christ because they were convinced they had already taken care of it and didn't need to do anything else.
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That's not how we derive an understanding from the scriptures concerning God's great salvation and the assurance we have through the promise of God that we can not be separated from the love of God and that God will never leave or forsake the believer. Trying to use that example to justify an unbelief in the promise of eternal security given as a gift of righteousness through faith is not how we come to the knowledge of the truth. If we allow the evidence of human weakness, sin, failure, carnality and unbelief to dictate our understanding of what it means to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord in the plan of God then we will come to many wrong conclusions though the example of the flesh that is weak and through the rearing up of the old sin nature that still resides in the body of the believer.

This girl's parents were living in hope because they saw no fruit and had no evidence to support the salvation of God in their daughter's life. There is nothing wrong when love believes the best and hopes in the grace of God. God is just and eternity will reveal His justice and those parent will have to accept whatever that may be in relationship to their daughter. These parents should be comforted with love and hope and not analyzed by sight and accused of the presumption of arrogance. Would you presume against hope with your own parents if that happened to a sibling of your's? Comfort others with the comfort you have been comforted with.
 
I'm gonna try again cause obviously I'm not saying it in a way that represents what I mean cause a couple of you guys are twisting my word to mean something I am not saying..

Faith In the once saved Always Saved Doctrine Will Not SAve Anyone. It is a doctrine of man and not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.. If it is accepted and believed as the Gospel ir is A false Gospel and a false Christ and That belief has No power to save anyone. If It is received and taught As Gods Message of Salvation, the Gospel. I believe the fruit i have seen when people do this is pride. like I have been saying from the beginning.. giving one Scripture greater value then others and attaching the Salvation message to hold this Doctrine Closer to their Heart Then Jesus, The Word And people.. I'm telling you right now This Doctrine Will Not save, your beliefs will not save you. Only The Son of God will save you.

Jesus Christ is Returning with Salvation for those who are waiting on him.. Our faith needs to be in him and in his Word and in his instruction.. not doctrines of men.
 
Once Saved always Saved Doctrine is Not the Rock of Ages, It is Not the Son of God and their is A huge different between a true conversion worked and working in someone. Then a person being guaranteed heaven by this Doctrine and putting their hope in this teaching.

There are a lot of unsaved Once Saved always Saved believers..
 
if you read back I also said that through those lil prayers people have come to know Christ. but Pressuring people in to saying that pray and then proclaiming they have been born again, they have received son ship in Gods kingdom, their name has been written in the lambs book of life never to be blotted out, is a lie and is mans arrogance.

The bible doesn't say that men do.
 
And what is more dangerous is when the unsaved believer in the Once Saved always Saved doctrin put's predestination into their Gospel.. Then everyone that doesn't say their prayer with them Is a vessel made for destitution and hated by them and God.. You would think these people would be corrected and encouraged to seek Christ BUT NO.. they ARE saved.
 
And why is it they believe they are saved? because they took part in something that been has made a ritual and a tradition.
 
And when they bare no fruit and continue in the flesh without a changed heart, with out a changed mind without the love of God.. what is the justification for their flesh? the thief on the cross? God requires nothing and that is exactly what has been given to Christ... Nothing!!
 
ReinItIn said:
Once Saved always Saved Doctrine is Not the Rock of Ages, It is Not the Son of God and their is A huge different between a true conversion worked and working in someone. Then a person being guaranteed heaven by this Doctrine and putting their hope in this teaching.

There are a lot of unsaved Once Saved always Saved believers..
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wow.. Once saved always saved is based on the fact we are justified by the blood of Christ, it comes from true repentnance thus there will be a true change of life. it is based on the fact the penalty of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life.

every major religion on earth has always taught we must work or do things to earn gods love and forgiveness. Many in christianity is no different than them. Thats why they try to go through the wide gate with everyone else. and ot the narrow gate. It takes alot of humility to admit you can never be good enough to stand in front of a righteous God minus the blood of Christ washing your sin away. thats why very few enter in that way, and why it is called the narrow gate.
 
Believe in the Son of God and do everything he says. repent and keep repenting, ask for forgiveness, forgive people, love, and keep doing it ect. renew your mind in the Word. cling to him and abide in him, wait for him He alone is able to save.
 
ReinItIn said:
abiding
re:who said it did?

the once saved always saved doctrine teaches grace as a cover for lawlessness for His elect.. I think Our salvation is promised to those who wait for him in belief. He will bring it with him and when we stand before him incorruptible is when we know we have receive it.

No one living has already obtained it as far as i can tell.
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Arminianism is salvation-by-works and nothing less.
In the end, God is keeping track of the sins of those who were washed and raised with Christ.
I find this a reprehensible teaching. No one at my church, myself included likes sin, approves of it, lives a life of it, or pretends they are without it.

This is about what Jesus has already done.
With all due respect, I noticed you are a Moderator at this site, yet it seems you are not at all familiar with what God means by justifying the ungodly, and how He did it, how He planned it before the world began.

I can't speak to to fears and performance anxiety of people who believe they're ever going to be clean enough by their own merits, other than to say they assuredly have a very low view of what Christ Jesus has done. Paul didn't have that low view at all. He proclaimed the opposite!

Forgive me for the tone of this post, but I never doubt my salvation, because it is not my doing - it is The LORD's.
The church knew this at one time. I do not understand what has happened, but no one can take away the assurance and comfort I have from the Holy Spirit.




Ephesians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

Ephesians 1:20
which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,

Ephesians 2
Made Alive in Christ

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

11Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; 18for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
 
wow.. Once saved always saved is based on the fact we are justified by the blood of Christ, it comes from true repentnance thus there will be a true change of life. it is based on the fact the penalty of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life.

every major religion on earth has always taught we must work or do things to earn gods love and forgiveness. Many in christianity is no different than them. Thats why they try to go through the wide gate with everyone else. and ot the narrow gate. It takes alot of humility to admit you can never be good enough to stand in front of a righteous God minus the blood of Christ washing your sin away. thats why very few enter in that way, and why it is called the narrow gate.

Jesus is the gift, the gate, the Way (path, The TRUTH). We will never be good enough. But, He Is.. I think Our faith should in His Power to Save us. His ability to put his Spirit in us, His authority over Sin, Death, hell and the grave. God bringing all things into obedience through him. Not Our Work but, His in us.
 
Even to those sinful converts at Corinth who needed so much admonishment, Paul had this to say about The God of Great Compassion and Comfort!

2 Corinthians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,

To the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia:
2Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, 4who comforts us in all our affliction so that we will be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. 5For just as the sufferings of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ. 6But if we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; or if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which is effective in the patient enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer; 7and our hope for you is firmly grounded, knowing that as you are sharers of our sufferings, so also you are sharers of our comfort.

8For we do not want you to be unaware, brethren, of our affliction which came to us in Asia, that we were burdened excessively, beyond our strength, so that we despaired even of life; 9indeed, we had the sentence of death within ourselves so that we would not trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead; 10who delivered us from so great a peril of death, and will deliver us, He on whom we have set our hope. And He will yet deliver us, 11you also joining in helping us through your prayers, so that thanks may be given by many persons on our behalf for the favor bestowed on us through the prayers of many



I know my God will deliver me. He already has!
 
ReinItIn said:
wow.. Once saved always saved is based on the fact we are justified by the blood of Christ, it comes from true repentnance thus there will be a true change of life. it is based on the fact the penalty of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life.

every major religion on earth has always taught we must work or do things to earn gods love and forgiveness. Many in christianity is no different than them. Thats why they try to go through the wide gate with everyone else. and ot the narrow gate. It takes alot of humility to admit you can never be good enough to stand in front of a righteous God minus the blood of Christ washing your sin away. thats why very few enter in that way, and why it is called the narrow gate.

Jesus is the gift, the gate, the Way (path, The TRUTH). We will never be good enough. But, He Is.. I think Our faith should in His Power to Save us. His ability to put his Spirit in us, His authority over Sin, Death, hell and the grave. God bringing all things into obedience through him. Not Our Work but, His in us.
Click to expand...

I am sorry, but if you have not truly repented of your unbelief and sinful past, if you do not, as Paul so eloquently recorded forever under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, realize that you were crucified with Christ and you now live for and in Him, I feel sorry for you.

The Spirit works this! Jesus said I am His friend, and I surely know He is. He is with me every day.

Yes, Jesus is the Narrow Gate, the Door - because He is hated!
Arminianism is a terrible sin! I can not think of another that is worse. I never, ever doubt the power of my Father to save me.

My God has performed every single thing needed to justify me from my sin, today tomorrow and to the moment of my death. He entire intent is to SAVE!

What kind of Good News is it when people are not made perfect in Love, the Love that God had for the world when He gave His Only Son? I will never teach anyone to be untrusting of the Creator! No, Praise and Glory and Honor are His....for what? for His Gracious Power to have a family from among His rebellious creation, fallen man!

Romans 15:5
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus,

2 Corinthians 7:6
But God, who comforts the downcast, comforted us by the coming of Titus,

Ephesians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

Colossians 1:3
We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Peter said He HAS given us new birth.
I know my Savior and I know the Spirit Who comforts and dwells in me, and I know He has goal....to deliver me to my Father at my eternal Home.
 
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Shalom selenah...I love starting my day reading this discussion forum, this causes my mind to focus in His Word.

In Matt 24:13 we are told, those that endure to the end will be saved...this greek word is #5278 and means to remain, bear trials and abide.

In Rev 3:5 our Messiah tells us, he that overcometh, will be clothed in white raiment; and He will not blot our names out of the book of life...

Looks like we have good works to do in Messiah Yahusha....and we can do all things through Him.

 
ReinItIn said:
Once Saved always Saved Doctrine is Not the Rock of Ages, It is Not the Son of God and their is A huge different between a true conversion worked and working in someone. Then a person being guaranteed heaven by this Doctrine and putting their hope in this teaching.

There are a lot of unsaved Once Saved always Saved believers..
Click to expand...

Ephesians 1:14
The Spirit is God's guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him

I believe my God.
His Spirit testifies with my spirit that He has done all this. Salvation is His doing.
With that I leave this thread.
 
Maybe a lot of people haven't encountered the abuse of people that hold this doctrine instead of Christ.. But, I have.. I have worked 30 years with the beaten children, wives and husbands, the sexually abused children of some of those who have self proclaimed salvation through this Doctrine. I know Christ is able to save even from the Sins I have witnessed and that these people have Justified by his grace and in his name. But, the person will not recognize they are Not saved and need to repent because they believe they are saved. Their church bodies support them too, a lot of the time.

When i ask if they fear the Lord they think to fear him is doubt.

I'm not saying I don't know true christian's in these denominations because i do.. I'm saying that by one sacrifice Christ has Redeemer men for God and he will complete the Work he has started. What I'm saying is your not in Christ you are not saved by you proclamation of once saved always saved doctrine.

I'm saying you have to be connected to the vine and remain in him to bear fruit..If we do not bare fruit we will be cast in the fire.. Jesus said SO. He Said we have to remain in him.
 
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