Can someone lose their salvation?

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by ReinItIn
Believe in the Son of God and do everything he says. repent and keep repenting, ask for forgiveness, forgive people, love, and keep doing it ect. renew your mind in the Word. cling to him and abide in him, wait for him He alone is able to save.

The problem you have with this line of thinking is that Only those who are saved can do what you are telling us we should do. If one is not born of God. all they can do is repent and come to god for forgiveness and ask god to adopt them into his family based on his sons work. They can't love the way God wants us to love, only a selfish love the world knows.

 

[ReinItIn]

Red33 do you understand Gods desire? He is putting everything under obedience to Christ. what do you think that means? do you think Jesus is returning for a whore?

Repent red33 and read the rest of the Lords words.. I'd hate to see you found lacking in his day of wrath.

 

[ReinItIn]

Justification..
Acts 19:40
In fact, we run a risk of being charged with rioting for what happened today, since there is no justification that we can give as a reason for this disorderly gathering.”
Acts 19:39-41 (in Context) Acts 19 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Romans 4:25
He was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Romans 4:24-25 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Romans 5:16
And the gift is not like the one man’s sin, because from one sin came the judgment, resulting in condemnation, but from many trespasses came the gift, resulting in justification.
Romans 5:15-17 (in Context) Romans 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Romans 5:18
So then, as through one trespass there is condemnation for everyone, so also through one righteous act there is life-giving justification for everyone.
Romans 5:17-19 (in Context) Romans 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Galatians 3:1
[ Justification through Faith ] You foolish Galatians! Who has hypnotized you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified?
Galatians 3:1-3 (in Context) Galatians 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

Our Justification is the Work Christ did on the Cross

 

[ReinItIn]

sanctification.

Romans 6:19
I am using a human analogy because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you offered the parts of yourselves as slaves to moral impurity, and to greater and greater lawlessness, so now offer them as slaves to righteousness, which results in sanctification.
Romans 6:18-20 (in Context) Romans 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Romans 6:22
But now, since you have been liberated from sin and have become enslaved to God, you have your fruit, which results in sanctification —and the end is eternal life!
Romans 6:21-23 (in Context) Romans 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
1 Corinthians 1:30
But it is from Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became God-given wisdom for us—our righteousness, sanctification, and redemption,
1 Corinthians 1:29-31 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

Is Gods Work he is doing in us.

 

[ReinItIn]

purification...

Acts 21:26
[ The Riot in the Temple Complex ] Then the next day, Paul took the men, having purified himself along with them, and entered the temple, announcing the completion of the purification days when the offering for each of them would be made.


Acts 24:18
and while I was doing this, some Jews from Asia found me ritually purified in the temple, without a crowd and without any uproar.


Hebrews 9:22
According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.


Hebrews 9:23
Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves to be purified with better sacrifices than these.

Hebrews 10:2
Otherwise, wouldn’t they have stopped being offered, since the worshipers, once purified, would no longer have any consciousness of sins?

1 Peter 1:22
By obedience to the truth, having purified yourselves for sincere love of the brothers, love one another earnestly from a pure heart,


Christs offering was once for all.. We apply his blood and keep our selves pure while we are in the world.
our conscious clean (not seared) by obedience to truth (Jesus).

 

[ReinItIn]

2 Corinthians 5:15
And He died for all so that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for the One who died for them and was raised.

 

[ReinItIn]

what do you think repentance is? because it seems we have two different ideas of it..

 

[ReinItIn]

Red33, I would ask do you understand the nature of the God who gave us the great promise?

 

[ReinItIn]

He did not die so we could know his promise.. He gave these promises so we could know him.. what does the bible say about entering the banquet of a king with out dressing in the garments he has provided?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He did not die so we could know his promise.. He gave these promises so we could know him.. what does the bible say about entering the banquet of a king with out dressing in the garments he has provided?

What is the garment and where did it come from? The garment is the blood of Christ, where he has washed us and made us white as snow. If your trying to make your own garment you will utterly fail. for we can offer God nothing but bloody rags

 

[GreenNnice]

The problem you have with this line of thinking is that Only those who are saved can do what you are telling us we should do. If one is not born of God. all they can do is repent and come to god for forgiveness and ask god to adopt them into his family based on his sons work. They can't love the way God wants us to love, only a selfish love the world knows.


[/I]

You know , Christ peeps, it's truly scaring me how convoluted some of you take God's grace of Eph. 2:8 and twist it to mean so many other things.


This VERSE speaks of SALVATION, plain and simple. Salvation is not a result of WORKS, it's indirectly a result of grace because by 'it' God SAVED mankind. How by THE GRACE of Jesus' being sacrificed.

But grace's work in SALVATION. No, CPs. No, no, no.

We are SAVED by the ACTIVE word of 'through,' this channel. .

When I say 'grace, shmace,' I mean, as the Lord leads me to say this, I hope and pray: Grace never has been a product of His Salvation,cspeaking of Paul here. No, no, no.

Grace is a 'by' product, it's simply HOW , what means (channel) Christ used to save wretched man, no good man, you, me, all of us, Christ peeps, BEFORE we were saved. After that, we are NO LONGER wretched, because....


...we choose THROUGH FAITH to believe in Him, and, die to self, letting Him lead us, give us (as He 'permits per Heb. 6:3 and we receive per , ah, read ALL of Acts and for reason why a born again believer needs more than JUST God knowledge , read about His Spirit's powr unto us once received, including understanding of His Word. Read 1 Cor. 1 and 2. Read it now !

But , yes, FAITH is the active word. We NEED to display it FULLY otherwise, and, reddy, are you listening, YOU are FAITHLESS. NOTE: This is NOT talking about mere belief in God, as I told Mari and jimdig yesterday when mari said 'I believe my God,' to that statement, Scripture says, 'even the demons believe in God.'

Christ peeps, hear this out! It's NOT about belief, it's NOT about this Lordship Salvation malarkey that you get ONE chance to REPENT or your never gonna be saved. No, no, no

It's about what, green? It's about faith. It's about denying yourself and, NEVER denying the Spirit leading your life. Sure, too, Satan IS real, able to roam on earth, so our flesh is STILL in us though it is no longer I who lives but Christ who lives in me. But we can CHOOSE to have the faith to be the truly righteous man/woman God wants us to be, God knows your plans, plans for youbto have a future and a hope.

How so these great plans come true? Grace?

Yes, this is true, God will give you things to strengthen your faith, things you don't deserve, but, guaranteed, you won'r get God's grace without believing in His Son's finished work, which takes....

....great belief in grace?

No!

Faith. It takes FAITH to follow Him, faith is believibg in the powr of truly unseen things of Him, standing on His promiees, knowing we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit of redemption by....


...grace?

No!

Through faith.

Not by grace, but THROUGH FAITH.

Some of you THINK that you just believe in Christ's death and live your life in this glory, but, no, Scripture is pointedly clear after John 3:16 there is MUCH work, in fact after the most popular OSAS verse , besides John 3:16, is the verse in Ephesians 2 , verse 10, that tells us we are CREATED TO DO GOOD WORKS.

Christ peeps, have faith in the finished work of Christ, and, don't just do 10 commandment works to stay in good stead to go to heaven, DO good works because He SAVED you. You. He came to you. He elected you because God KNOWS our heart. You, of course, had to believe in Him....


...but it doesn't stop there. God requires us to FIGHT the fight of faith, and, serving Him by doing things is through faith.

FAITH requires the complete surrender of self to His Holy Spirit leading your life, being content with His meted MERCY and NOT thinking about your past. It's gone QUIT thinking about those SIns of past, the are dead and gone, , or, if not yet, they WILL be .

When gone, green? The very moment you confess them to Him, to God, to Jesus, to His Holy Spirit. Him! The great,-impossible-to-fully-understand-His-power Him !

Let your life rest in Him ! In Him, through faith, your life will work out greatly.
Quit thinking you are doing 'works' and, therefore, not believing in His 'Grace' (Jesus sacrifice) finished work.

 

[GreenNnice]

What is the garment and where did it come from? The garment is the blood of Christ, where he has washed us and made us white as snow. If your trying to make your own garment you will utterly fail. for we can offer God nothing but bloody rags

Once one is washed in 'The Blood,' he/she no longer has 'filthy rags.'

*washes (active word)

Water, too, is active agent, after being cleansed by the blood we are to be filled in His Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Once one is washed in 'The Blood,' he/she no longer has 'filthy rags.'

*washes (active word)

Water, too, is active agent, after being cleansed by the blood we are to be filled in His Spirit.

lol, even after we are washed, our works outside of being led by the spirit are filthy rags. My point was our works can not save us because we can never be good enough to earn salvation. You can go from now until you die doing your best to walk in the spirit and you would still fall short of Gods glorious standard, and still be unqualified. That is why we need to be washed in the blood.

Only blood can take away sin. Not us being good, because we can never live up to the glorious standard. so for those trying to dress themselves by being righteous, they will utterly fail, no matter how Good they or the world or even the church thinks they are,

 

[GreenNnice]

lol, even after we are washed, our works outside of being led by the spirit are filthy rags. My point was our works can not save us because we can never be good enough to earn salvation. You can go from now until you die doing your best to walk in the spirit and you would still fall short of Gods glorious standard, and still be unqualified. That is why we need to be washed in the blood.

Only blood can take away sin. Not us being good, because we can never live up to the glorious standard. so for those trying to dress themselves by being righteous, they will utterly fail, no matter how Good they or the world or even the church thinks they are,

What are you talking about?

Where do I say 'we are saved by being good,' eg ?

We are saved through faith in, first, believing in Him, but, then, Scripture shows us much more, to doer more, lol, including letting Christ wash us in His Blood, and, receiving His Spirit as He 'permits.' Heb. 6:3

No, we are washed in the blood to cleanse us from all unrighteousness .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What are you talking about?

Where do I say 'we are saved by being good,' eg ?

We are saved through faith in, first, believing in Him, but, then, Scripture shows us much more, to doer more, lol, including letting Christ wash us in His Blood, and, receiving His Spirit as He 'permits.' Heb. 6:3

yeah, But Christs blood washes us eternally. that is why we HAVE been justified, not might be justified.

And as for recieving his spirit. Scripture says we recieve him the moment we first trusted in him (had faith) and we are sealed by him until the day of redemption, the glorification of our souls. Once we get him, we can grieve him, but we can't lose him, we have him eternally

 

[GreenNnice]

yeah, But Christs blood washes us eternally. that is why we HAVE been justified, not might be justified.

And as for recieving his spirit. Scripture says we recieve him the moment we first trusted in him (had faith) and we are sealed by him until the day of redemption, the glorification of our souls. Once we get him, we can grieve him, but we can't lose him, we have him eternally

No.
You don't have Him, eg, that is, His Spirit automatically after you accept Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour.

'He' must be given you, hence, the word 'permit' of Hebrews 6:3. And, also, the Spirit must be 'received.' Read Acts, all of it .

Now, this is not judging anyone, just speaking the Truth

The Lord leads

Christ's blood washes us 'eternally' ??? How so is His washing eternal. We are cleansed from our sins and needvtgatbcleansing often. All sin, the hood covers us but we still sin. Ok, I se your point, you see mine too . Good.

But we can leave His Blood by sinning willfully, the sacrifice is no longer there. Right?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No.
You don't have Him, eg, that is, His Spirit automatically after you accept Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour.

'He' must be given you, hence, the word 'permit' of Hebrews 6:3. And, also, the Spirit must be 'received.'

Now, this is jot judging anyone, just speaking the Truth

The Lord leads

lol sorry but I disagree.

eph 1; 13 - 14

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[b] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.


This shows we were given the spirit by god when? after we work to earn it? no. After we trust the gospel of our salvation. this is not mere belief, but a full trust!


Rom 5:

5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have[a] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


we are given the HS because we have been justified. because of justification, we are made alive by his spirit. this is called regeneration.




Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


We can grieve him, But we can not lose him, he is our seal.




Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,


It is the HS who washes us, And the HS who gives us new life by him being given to us. Not by our being good enoug, but because of Gods mercy.



Romans 6: 3 is Pual saying if God permits, we should move onto other doctrines, Not the basic doctrines he spoke of in the first two verses. Not saying God will take the spirit away, or keep the spirit from us, I don;t get where you get that understanding.




6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.


Paul is calling the doctrine of baptisms (notice it is plural here) laying on of hands and repentnance of dead works (true faith in Christ, not trying to work for it) as elementary principles, or basic doctrines which every baby in Christ should understand/. it is the milk of the word.

 

[marianna]

But , yes, FAITH is the active word. We NEED to display it FULLY otherwise, and, reddy, are you listening, YOU are FAITHLESS. NOTE: This is NOT talking about mere belief in God, as I told Mari and jimdig yesterday when mari said 'I believe my God,' to that statement, Scripture says, 'even the demons believe in God.'

So you should be working very very hard to fully "display" your "faith".
Maybe the greater the display the more pleased The LORD will be with you?

You do not know what faith means. It means a combination of belief and trust.

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Without regeneration it is impossible to have faith.

So Who Graciously gave you faith?

Faith (pistis) results in actions because we actually believe something to be true, and have placed our trust in what has been said or done. This is called faithfulness.

-

Do you think God will accept you based on your public display of works?
Are you without sin? No, you are not. All your 'good works' - your display of 'faith' (while trashing Grace) will do nothing for you.

a truly born again person never displays or trumpets their 'works'. Why would they? It's simply the new nature, doing what they now love to do, only their reasonable service. If you were truly in the love of Christ you wouldn't be going on and on about good works. You'd just be doing them.

You are laying out the precise recipe to create hypocrites:

hyp·o·crite   [hip-uh-krit] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2.
a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

Origin:
1175–1225; Middle English ipocrite < Old French < Late Latin hypocrita < Greek hypokrit&#7703;s a stage actor, hence one who pretends to be what he is not, equivalent to hypokr&#299;&#769; ( nesthai ) ( see hypocrisy) + -t&#275;s agent suffix

Not by grace, but THROUGH FAITH.

Some of you THINK that you just believe in Christ's death and live your life in this glory, but, no, Scripture is pointedly clear after John 3:16 there is MUCH work, in fact after the most popular OSAS verse , besides John 3:16, is the verse in Ephesians 2 , verse 10, that tells us we are CREATED TO DO GOOD WORKS.

Did I not read you actually say "grace shmace"?

You should take another careful look at what Grace really is. Without God's Grace, you'd have no faith, He would not have given it to you.


Romans 3
Justification by Faith

21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.



Where then is boasting? It is excluded.

Is it only excluded regarding Grace?

Will you be boasting of your faith (which is displayed by your good works?)

I am sorry, but what happened to the Church? Where did we lose the entire reason for even gathering and keeping the LORD's words?

 

[marianna]

We are saved through faith in, first, believing in Him
but, then, Scripture shows us much more, to doer more
including letting Christ wash us in His Blood
and, receiving His Spirit as He 'permits.' Heb. 6:3

This is not the Gospel.

 

[marianna]

No.
You don't have Him, eg, that is, His Spirit automatically after you accept Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour.

44Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48“You are witnesses of these things. 49“And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.” - Luke 24

Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. - Acts 2:38

I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus. - Acts 20:21

And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.' - Acts 22:16

to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.' - Acts 26:18