So, what does it mean when people say Jesus only died for our past sins?

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chesser

Guest
#1
Does that mean that they belive that since they have accepted Jesus, they have not sinned once, never told a lie, nor thought badly of another, not anything of the sort?
 
Dec 1, 2012
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#2
Other than not having an answer for how can a past sin of theirs be forgiven only, if Jesus died BEFORE that person was born to sin, I guess it's hard to say.
 
Jun 24, 2010
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#3
Past sins are all sins that Christ paid for and has put behind His back, which includes future sins that have not been committed in time. including unbelief. That should stir some people up, I wonder who that will be. I only hope it provokes them to love and a good works of faith based upon good and sound doctrine motivated by impersonal love from God through the Spirit.
 
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gracethroughfaith

Guest
#4
The moment you truly come to Christ with a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart. Turning from the life of sin you once lived. From that point all sin you have committed before coming to Christ are YOUR past sins. Once you have tasted of the heavenly gift (the righteousness of God). Everthing before that is PAST SIN. YOUR PAST SIN!

Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

We can not crucify Christ over and over again in our life. He died once!

Hebrews 10:10-12 (KJV)
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Jesus gave himself for our sins, this is his gift to us. If we refuse the gift what good does it do us. It does nothing for us. If we continue in sin were is the excepting of the gift.

If you are in prison and a judge pardons you of the crime you committed setting you free and you do not except that pardon and just stay there in your prison cell rather than excepting the gift of freedom and walking away from your prison cell never to return again. Are you living in freedom just because you were pardoned? NO! You never came out of the prison to enter into freedom.

Now you have been pardoned, you left your prison cell, but them chose to go back to your life of crime. You are sent back to prison; there is not a judge will ever pardon you again. You proved yourself to be wicked.

That Judge would be as the Holy Ghost. By returning to your old life of crime is blasphemy against the judge.

To return to your sinful life is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, because you at that point refused the spirit of the Holy Ghost.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#5
It means that being reconciled to God through repentance and faith is meant to be a one time deal.

A good parallel would be an adulterous husband who is an illicit relationship with another women. The husband and wife need to be reconciled but this cannot occur whilst the husband is still engaged in the illicit relationship.

The first thing the husband must do is clear himself of the wrongdoing before he can approach his wife for reconciliation.

We this clearing of wrong doing illustrated by Paul where he clearly shows the connection between "godly sorrow" which works "repentance" unto "salvation."

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

If the above verse is examined carefully it is clearly seen that the "repentance" that leads to salvation is not to be repented of or not to be regretted. It is not something that an individual is to go back on.

A godly sorrow is what "works" or "fashions" or "causes" the "repentance that leads to salvation" to take place.

In verse 11 Paul lists the fruit of godly sorrow. We clearly see that it produces a vehement desire to turn from sin and to serve God.

Repentance is a mind change but a true mind change will produce a change in actions. If the actions do not change then the mind has not really changed. That is why in Acts it says that "repentance is proven by deeds" (Act 26:20) and that works worthy of repentance must be produced (Mat 3:8).

The adulterous husband who is seeking reconciliation with his wife must first repent of his adultery (change his mind about it) and this "change of mind" must be worked by a "sorrow" where the indignation over his conduct manifests whereby he has a vehement desire to do what is right.

We see this evidence in the parable of the Prodigal Son who was living in sin in the pig pen. He came to himself realising that what he was doing was wrong and that he had sinned. He had a godly sorrow that worked a repentance (change of mind) and this change of mind led him to forsake the pig pen and return to the father. THIS DID NOT SAVE HIM but it had to occur.

In the same way, an adulterous husband by forsaking his adultery to be reconciled to his wife DOES NOT MERIT FORGIVENESS. It is simply the fulfilling of a condition that must take place.

The husband was alienated from his wife because of his wicked works. Sinners are alienated from God because of their wicked works.

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Paul taught that the "carnal mind is at emnity with God."

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

For the sin to be remitted there must be repentance. The mind must TRULY change. A true mind change will ALWAYS be evidenced by a change in action. The only exception would be if the "mind change" occurred in a situation where "action is restricted" such as the example with the thief on the cross.

Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Notice again in this passage that the "godly sorrow that works repentance unto salvation" which is not to be regretted produces a CLEARING IN THIS MATTER.

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

The word for clear is...

G53
CLEAR - hagnos
From the same as G40; properly clean, that is, (figuratively) innocent, modest, perfect: - chaste, clean, pure.

The wicked conduct STOPPED because they approved themselves pure, chaste and clean in the matter. In other words they are not engaged in the behaviour which they changed their mind about anymore. Hence "repentance is proven by deeds."

Just like the Prodigal Son or the parable of the servant who at first "did not" but then "repented" and "did." Jesus stated that Nineveh repented and we see the same pattern that deeds proved repentance.

So now that the adulterous husband approaches his wife seeking reconciliation so does a sinner when he or she approaches God.

It is through Jesus Christ that this reconciliation takes place.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that hemightreconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

The ministration of righteousness is through abiding in Him whereby the "former sinner" has come into agreement with God and is enjoined into Jesus Christ.

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Examine the passage below very carefully. Note how those who are "IN" Christ Jesus are under the law of the "Spirit of life" for it is the Spirit which "GIVES" life (2 Cor 3:6). When we are "IN CHRIST" we are WALKING (DEEDS) after the Spirit and the "righteousness of the law" is FULFILLED IN US.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us when we walk after the Spirit BY FAITH. Look at what Paul wrote...

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Righteousness is through the Spirit when the heart of a man is yielding to God. This is the Ministration of Righteousness.

Look at the comparison Paulk makes here....

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

There are "works of the flesh" and there are "works of the spirit." The Ministration of Righteousness is through the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ (Rom 8:2) by which WE FULFILL the "righteousness of the law" (Rom 8:4). We are not UNDER the law because the law is simply an outward DESCRIPTION of "good conduct" which FLOWS FROM a PURE HEART OF LOVE hence FAITH WORKS BY LOVE (Gal 5:6) and LOVE FULFILLS THE LAW (Gal 5:14).

When a person approaches God having "changed their mind" and "their conduct" they are approaching God HAVING CRUCIFIED THEIR FLESH WITH ITS PASSIONS AND DESIRES (Gal 5:24). In other words, the CARNAL MIND that is at EMNITY WITH GOD and CANNOT PLEASE GOD (Rom 8:7-9) has been CRUCIFIED or LAID ASIDE. This MUST OCCUR in order that one may be IN Christ, in the Spirit of Life IN Jesus Christ (Rom 8:2) by which we FULFILL the righteousness of the law.

The other aspect of all this is the sin offering of Jesus Christ. Look at this passage...

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

A repentant sinner cannot purge his own conscience of his former dead works. A repentance sinner cannot cleanse himself from all sin. A repentance sinner is GUILTY before God and HE KNOWS IT. The former life of rebellion CANNOT be undone by anything the repentant sinner can do. His OWN CONSCIENCE convicts him.

It is through the blood of Jesus Christ that our consciences are PURGED of what we have done previously. This is why the Bible teaches the forgiveness of PAST SINS. Being reconciled to God is meant to be a ONE TIME DEAL and not something you do OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Let's say an adulterous husband forsakes his illicit relationship and returns to his wife seeking forgiveness and reconciliation. The wife grants him favour and forgives him and they are both reconciled to each other (note it was the conduct of the man that had to change, not the wife). Now if the husband is to return to the illicit relationship is he still reconciled to the wife? No way. It is EXACTLY the same with God.

This is why the author of Hebrews wrote this...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

If an individual, who has been sanctified by the blood and brought into reconciliation with God, willfully goes back to the conduct which created the emnity (and the need for the sacrifice) in the first place then he is DESPISING THE SPIRIT OF GRACE.

The writer of Hebrews gives us a further insight when he writes in the context of someone who "falls away" where he writes...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

The writer of Hebrews speaks AGAINST re-crucifying Christ. It is an ABOMINATION to treat the sin offering of Jesus Christ as a "get out of jail free card" which you can use over and over again. It is meant to be a ONE TIME OFFER through which God gives men the OPPORTUNITY to forsake their rebellion and return to Him and be forgiven. It is not meant to be some sort of "wrath protection plan" which one can appeal to again and again as they go back or persist in their rebellion.

Any individual who treats it as such CANNOT REPENT because they have no true sorrow. This is why it is VERY DANGEROUS to believe that once a truly saved person can willfully sin and simply repent again. It is not that simple.

If you read the writings of the early church you will clearly see that MANY of the early Christian completely DENIED the possibility of a second repentance. A second repentance was VERY RARE. The reason is because the conviction wrought through a godly sorrow that leads to repentance and the resulting "eyes being opened" by God as one goes from DARKNESS TO LIGHT puts the repentance sinner in a state WHERE THEY ARE NOT IGNORANT. When a truly redeemed person turns back to their sin they are doing it WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE and such an action defiles the heart completely. That person has despised the truth not from a place of darkness, but from a place of light.

This is why Peter would write...

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

A person in this situation is WORSE OFF than when they were under condemnation in darkness. When conviction is first wrought the light being revealed by God to the sinner is a powerful contrast to the darkness. This powerful effect is lacking a second time around.

The above verses DO NOT APPLY to most who profess Jesus Christ because MOST who profess Jesus Christ HAVE NEVER truly repented and crucified their flesh with the passions and desires. Thus those verses do not apply to them. You have to escape the corruption that is in the world through lust by the power of God BEFORE you could EVER find yourself in such a situation.

All this relates to "past sins being forgiven." If one believes that "future sins are forgiven in advance" then everything I write will mean absolutely nothing to them.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#6
Here is a passage which speaks of how we "escape the corruption that is in the world through lust" in order that we be "partakers in the divine nature." We partake in the divine nature by ADDING TO OUR FAITH. Those WHO DO NOT add to their faith FORGET that they their PREVIOUS SINS were purged.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

We ARE NOT purged of FUTURE SINS. That is what Peter PLAINLY teaches.

If sins are forgiven in advance then repentance is not necessary for the forgiveness of those sins because you CANNOT repent of a future sin. You cannot be sorry and change your mind about something you have not done yet. IF YOU COULD YOU WOULD NOT DO IT!!!!!

Redemption IS IN Christ Jesus. Redemption from the CONDEMNATION wrougt by PAST SINS and redemption from the BONDAGE of sin through being in the Spirit of life of Jesus Christ.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Eternal life to who????

Indignation to who???


Future sins forgiven in advance? Really?

Future sins forgiven in advance is a false concept which is necessitated by the false doctrine of Penal Substitution. Penal Substitution was developed by the Reformers in the 1600's and was never taught before then.

The reformers took the Satisfaction model which was first introduced by Anselm in the 11th century which taught that the death of Jesus on the cross SATISFIED DIVINE JUSTICE and added a judicial penal element to it whereby Jesus LITERALLY was punished by God as a substitute for sinners. Thus Jesus ABSORBED the wrath of God due the sinner. Under this doctrine the death of Christ on the cross is viewed as a LEGAL TRANSACTION whereby a sinner is redeemed PURELY by a judicial decree. It completely destroys the purpose of the atonement which is to bring a sinner back into favour with God whereby the person reconciled IS NO LONGER A REBEL.

Penal Substitution CLOAKS ongoing rebellion to God. Penal Substitution promotes the idea that YOU CAN SIN AND NOT SURELY DIE. Penal Substitution separates CONDUCT from salvation.

It is a very dangerous and deadly heresy and it has FOOLED MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.

RESEARCH IT.

1. 400 Year Old Doctrine. Early Church NEVER taught it.
2. Sins ARE NOT FORGIVEN but merely appropriated to an innocent who is PUNISHED instead. An innocent is punished to excuse the guilty.
3. There is no scripture reference in the entire Bible which states that God PUNISHED Jesus as a substitute for the sinner.
4. Penal Substitution teaches that sin and virtue are transferable properties rather than being moral choices/actions.
5. If Jesus literally absorbed the punishment from God due the sinner then that forces either Universal Wrath Absorbance and Forgiveness to be true (if He died for everyone) OR Jesus ONLY died for those who would be saved (Limited Atonement - L in TULIP).
6. The parable of the unforgiving servant has the Master freely forgiving a debt WITHOUT the debt being paid by someone else. When the servant does not forgive his own servant the debt is reinstated. This parable totally contradicts Penal Substitution
7. Jesus did not teach anywhere that He was going to be punished in the place of the sinner or that His righteous track record was going to be credited to the believers account.


Penal Substitution is derived PURELY from speculation. Several verses are IMPLIED to teach it when NOT A SINGLE SCRIPTURE in the entire Bible lays it out.

We esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God does not say "God punished Jesus." From human perspective Jesus was esteemed stricken and smitten of God.

He hath been made sin for us that we be made the righteousness of God in Him does not say "God punished Jesus as your substitute and that His obedience is credited to your account."

The righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe does not say that the track record of Jesus is transferred to your account.

False teachers will quote those scriptures and then imply something that they do not say. They will also AVOID OR EXPLAIN AWAY all the scriptures which PROVE their doctrine wrong.

Don't be deceived please.

Gos bless.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#7
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The blood of Jesus Christ will only cleanse someone FROM ALL SIN IF THEY WALK IN THE LIGHT.

One cannot "walk in the light" UNLESS one forsakes "walking in darkness."

Your WALK is WHAT YOU DO.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
1Jn 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

How are the children of God MANIFEST?

How are the children of the devil MANIFEST?
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#8
The moment you truly come to Christ with a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart. Turning from the life of sin you once lived. From that point all sin you have committed before coming to Christ are YOUR past sins. Once you have tasted of the heavenly gift (the righteousness of God). Everthing before that is PAST SIN. YOUR PAST SIN!

Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

We can not crucify Christ over and over again in our life. He died once!

Hebrews 10:10-12 (KJV)
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Jesus gave himself for our sins, this is his gift to us. If we refuse the gift what good does it do us. It does nothing for us. If we continue in sin were is the excepting of the gift.

If you are in prison and a judge pardons you of the crime you committed setting you free and you do not except that pardon and just stay there in your prison cell rather than excepting the gift of freedom and walking away from your prison cell never to return again. Are you living in freedom just because you were pardoned? NO! You never came out of the prison to enter into freedom.

Now you have been pardoned, you left your prison cell, but them chose to go back to your life of crime. You are sent back to prison; there is not a judge will ever pardon you again. You proved yourself to be wicked.

That Judge would be as the Holy Ghost. By returning to your old life of crime is blasphemy against the judge.

To return to your sinful life is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, because you at that point refused the spirit of the Holy Ghost.


What a wonderfully clear and concise post.

:)
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
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#9
Does that mean that they belive that since they have accepted Jesus, they have not sinned once, never told a lie, nor thought badly of another, not anything of the sort?
If that is what they are trying to say just so they can live in sin, because they believe sin is no longer sin anymore to them, then they are wrong. The apostle John was addressing that point below.

1 John 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

But if you are referring to this reference:

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

You have to read the verses altogether to understand that salvation was brought about by believing in Jesus Christ which is when you have received the remssion of sins so you can have the promise of the Holy Spirit to be justified & thus saved by grace.

Another reference may help you understand that context:

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

So now sin has no longer seperated us from God as He is with us always now, but we are called to recognize that because He is in us, we should now live by faith in Him as our Good Shepherd and not just as our Saviour to help us to follow Him by continuing in His words and understanding His words in the King James Bible to live as His.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Romans 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
3,651
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#10
Past sins refer to sins committed before Calvary. None of us were around then. From Calvary all future sins were dealt with as well.
 
Feb 11, 2012
1,358
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#11
It means what it says, its not complicated, but most love the gospel of sin, that says alls you have to do is admit you are a sinner, and presto all your sins are preforgiven, this is the lie from the pit!!

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
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#12
Past sins refer to sins committed before Calvary. None of us were around then. From Calvary all future sins were dealt with as well.

If all future sins are forgiven in advance then why do you have to WALK in the light as He is in the light to be cleansed from all sin?

If all future sins are forgiven in advance then why does the Bible teach that "repentance is for remission"?


The doctrine of "sins already forgiven in advance" forces people into absurdity.
 
G

gracethroughfaith

Guest
#13
Past sins refer to sins committed before Calvary. None of us were around then. From Calvary all future sins were dealt with as well.

Past sins does not refer to sins committed before calvary, for our sake that are alive today. A mans sins can not be forgiven before he even exists upon the earth. Thats crazy!

Besides if that were so why would the LORD have taught the disciples to preach repentance after his death? Paul's writing clearly teach we must turn from our sinful life before we can be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.
We see this taught also in Acts, James, Peter, letters of John, Jude, and Revelation. These were all after Christ returned to Heaven to take his rightful place.

Sin can not be justified by what makes us feel good about living in sin. To sin is to be in unrighteousness and NO UNRIGHTEOUSNESS shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Do as the Berean's have done and study for yourself to prove whether you pastor is teaching your rightly or telling you lies.
Don't just take hiis word for it. Prove him!

Galatians 6:7-8 (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
 
S

spirit1st

Guest
#14
JESUS died about 2000 years ago for All our Sins ! But we accept it by Faith !
1Co_15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Gal_1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
1Jn_2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn_4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Heb_10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
1Pe_1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1Jn_1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The reason He still is our Forgiving sins is because He did not die for our flesh ! Our flesh can still and does suffer for sins! That why we repent and ask Him to forgive us so our flesh does not suffer ! He died that we could be made new creatures ! He paid the price ! Our New Creature ,New spirit cannot Sin !But our flesyh mind and body CAN !

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
It only our New Spirit that cannot sin !

1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


 
G

gracethroughfaith

Guest
#15
Past sins does not refer to sins committed before calvary, for our sake that are alive today. A mans sins can not be forgiven before he even exists upon the earth. Thats crazy!

Besides if that were so why would the LORD have taught the disciples to preach repentance after his death? Paul's writing clearly teach we must turn from our sinful life before we can be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.
We see this taught also in Acts, James, Peter, letters of John, Jude, and Revelation. These were all after Christ returned to Heaven to take his rightful place.

Sin can not be justified by what makes us feel good about living in sin. To sin is to be in unrighteousness and NO UNRIGHTEOUSNESS shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Do as the Berean's have done and study for yourself to prove whether you pastor is teaching your rightly or telling you lies.
Don't just take hiis word for it. Prove him!

Galatians 6:7-8 (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
We see this message of repentance, turning from sin in every book of the Bible written after Christ returned to Heaven, from Acts to Revelation.
 
G

gracethroughfaith

Guest
#16
JESUS died about 2000 years ago for All our Sins ! But we accept it by Faith !
1Co_15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Gal_1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
1Jn_2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn_4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Heb_10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
1Pe_1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1Jn_1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The reason He still is our Forgiving sins is because He did not die for our flesh ! Our flesh can still and does suffer for sins! That why we repent and ask Him to forgive us so our flesh does not suffer ! He died that we could be made new creatures ! He paid the price ! Our New Creature ,New spirit cannot Sin !But our flesyh mind and body CAN !

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
It only our New Spirit that cannot sin !

1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


Colossians 2:11 (KJV)
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:



Galatians 5:24-25 (KJV)
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

If Christ did not die for our flesh then what did he die for, it has always been the flesh that causes us to sin. Read the two passages above again and understand we are to crucify our flesh with the affections and lusts. Not keep living in our fleshly lusts and desires.
This is the taking up of our cross for Christ's sake.

If you are Christ's you have put off the lusts of the flesh, not desiring the garment to be spotted by the flesh.

Jude 1:23 (KJV)
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
3,651
113
#17
Past sins does not refer to sins committed before calvary, for our sake that are alive today. A mans sins can not be forgiven before he even exists upon the earth. Thats crazy!

Besides if that were so why would the LORD have taught the disciples to preach repentance after his death? Paul's writing clearly teach we must turn from our sinful life before we can be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.
We see this taught also in Acts, James, Peter, letters of John, Jude, and Revelation. These were all after Christ returned to Heaven to take his rightful place.

Sin can not be justified by what makes us feel good about living in sin. To sin is to be in unrighteousness and NO UNRIGHTEOUSNESS shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Do as the Berean's have done and study for yourself to prove whether you pastor is teaching your rightly or telling you lies.
Don't just take hiis word for it. Prove him!

Galatians 6:7-8 (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Past sins refer to old testament saints sins not yours or mine.
 
G

gracethroughfaith

Guest
#18
Past sins refer to old testament saints sins not yours or mine.
If that is the case, why is this issue of past sins not spoken of till after Christ returned the Heaven. We do not see talk of this past sin till the book of Romans, chapter 3 verse 25. Paul is speeking of this. Nowere in scripture did Christ ever teach past sins only being old testament saints sins.

If that were so then Christ died for old testament saints only and not for you or I. That would mean our sins are not forgiven.
By your teaching Jesus only died for the early saints before his time on earth. Not for the sins of anyone born after that time.
This is a self diluting way of thinking in order to justify living in sin is exceptable to God.
This is a very destructive way of living and goes against what God teaches all through the New and Old Testament.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
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#19
An individual I know made the following observation recently and I thought it very worthwhile to post in this thread.




THE PROOF THAT RIGHTEOUSNESS CANNOT BE “IMPUTED”:

Atonement and justification are offered for the reason that an agent is guilty of an actual action that he should of and therefore “could have” done otherwise in. The very demand for judgment implies ability. The appeasement of judgment upholds judgment and the ability on which it's based. Thus, one can atone for and justify PAST transgressions (actual ACTIONS), but one could not possibly cover or replace an agent’s current will and choices (freewill STATE), or it would be to admit that the agent does not really have the ability to do what’s required. To “cover” or replace and person’s current will choices and performance (freewill STATE) would be to deny his ability to do right and also deny his past ability to do right and not choose wrong, as well as deny his distinct personhood. Therefore, imputed righteousness over PRESENT character (freewill STATE) negates and contradicts the very grounds on which an agent would have been judged to begin with! Judgment and atonement can only be for chosen actions, and cannot be for non-chosen states, for non-chosen states impute to the agent no moral quality and he can’t be guilty of what he does not cause or choose.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#20
God is outside of time, and not subject to time. This there are no past sin. When Christ died for sin, he died for all sin. That is why Paul said we HAVE BEEN justified (past tense) that our salvation was paid (Past tense) and his death was not only the propitiation for our sin, but the sin of the whole world (past present and future)