Sin, Sickness, and Job

lesjude · Dec 24, 2012

Satan afflicted Job. He only had the general right because of sin coming in through Adam and Eve. There was NO other reason Satan could come before the throne to ask to tempt Job to sin. He really thought Job was a sinner and would prove his true nature. Read Job chapters 1 and 2 please.

Do not miss one of the MAIN points of the book. Job's friends contended that no man could be made righteous before God by any means. Job contended he was righteous by grace through faith in His redeemer Christ which Job states.

Satan is the god of this world and it was Satan who afflicted Job, not God. Satan can do NOTHING to a believer without God's say so. God in His GREAT mercy even stays the hand of Satan on behalf of the unsaved. In this case it was God exercising His determinative control. Job called on God for deliverance and healing and did not run off to the arm of the flesh. By trusting God ALONE he defeated Satan's assertion, defeated Satan as the source of sin and sickness, and did not sin against God. Job was declared right by God in his contention that a man can be righteous by grace through faith in Job 42:7, was given more authority and power with God 42:8, healed, and MORE than restored.

Please tell me why it is that if God gives His children a loathsome affliction to make them better Christians run off to the arm of the flesh calling it 'faith' to seek 'healing' and be rid of it spending thousands and then not be rid of it but drugged to live with it. Really!! The Bible no where teaches dualism i.e. trusting God and the arm of the flesh for any promise God has made to His people. In fact the very opposite. No one in the NT EVER went to the medical system for a physical issue, sought their advice, or referred anyone to them; not Jesus (use and referrals), not Paul, not Epaphroditus, not Trophimus, not Luke and all had occasion. Those that sought to the physicians in the OT did not end well.

All the medical system today does is do enough to keep sinners comfortable in their sin which is the ROOT of their problem. It keeps Christians under the LIE that God gives them that system and keeps them in the same sin, UNBELIEF.

The devil comes before the throne and says, if you will allow me to give them this or that physical issue they will PROVE they have no trust in you ALONE to do as your word promises, AND will not avail themselves of your clear method of healing set in the church, James 5:14-15. And guess what?

God can and does use physical issues through Satan to discipline His children when all else fails then heals when they repent. Also they can be used as a teaching/training tool by the Holy Spirit to train a disciple in faith for healing. He started with me allowing and then healing injuries, aches and pains and even severe burns which were healed instantly or very quickly. As we saw Him faithful we became faithful to trust Jesus alone to heal us of EVERYTHING and have now for 35 years. A major aspect of approved character is Bible faith, Hebrews 11:6, that trusts God alone to do as He promises to do within the meaning of SAVE.

MOST will not even consider submitting to any training in this. It is inconvenient, requires some courage, and most of all humbling oneself to do what Romans 12:1 says. Maintaining the right to oneself is the essence of all sin i.e. pride, stubbornness, and willful ignorance. Christians believe they can turn their blood bought bodies over to man's carnal medical system, #3 in cause of death, to be stripped naked, drugged, and cut up. Please explain where in the Bible it even implies this is God's plan for His bride

crossnote · Dec 24, 2012

so if your child was dying of a disease that the physician has a. cure?

lesjude · Dec 24, 2012

crossnote said:

We have raised 7 children to adulthood and ALWAYS have gone to the Physician we live closest to and provides the best care. He is a good Jewish doctor, Yahweh Rap-ha, who loved His mother and never has failed us or anyone else who trusts in Him alone. How about you?

gracethroughfaith · Dec 24, 2012

Man has never had a cure for any illness, EVER and never will. Remember the passage of the woman with a blood issue for 12 years?

Mark 5:25-34 (KJV)
25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,
26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,
27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.
28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.
29 And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.
30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?
31 And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
32 And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.
33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.
34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

It is only true believing faith in our LORD and Saviour that can heal. All man has ever been able to do is prolong the illness, and rob us of all that we have. Just as we see in the passage above.

Why do you think these doctors hold the title Practicing physician?
Because they have never mastered and never will master the art of healing. Only God is master of healing.
He is our Great Physician!

Look at how great the doctors of this world are. Asa sought a physician and died two years later.

2 Chronicles 16:12-13 (KJV)
12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.
13 And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

If he had only sought the LORD he would have been healed of his disease.

I know of Christians who had been diagnosed with cancer and by the very next visit to the doctor the cancer was completely gone because they sought God for the healing of there cancer. Rather than man's drugs and radiation treatments.

crossnote · Dec 24, 2012

I freely make use of lower case physicians all the while trusting in Jesus to guide them.

lesjude · Dec 24, 2012

crossnote said:

Dualism i.e. trusting both God and man for what God promises in the meaning of the Greek verb to save is nowhere taught in the OT or NT. If you believe it is please provide scripture. Please look up the verb in Vine's for its meaning and how it is used in the NT.

gracethroughfaith · Dec 24, 2012

lesjude said:

lesjude;
I do hope you are talking about ALWAYS going to Christ and not a man with your 7 children. I am assuming Yahweh Rapha is another name for our LORD and Saviour. I could only guess because I do not speek but one tongue and that is English. This is the only tongue God has ever spoken to me in. It is the only one I know and understand. I only read, write and understand English and have never had to understand Greek or Hebrew to understand God. He gave me an English Bible (King James Bible) so I could understand him in my tongue.

Stand fast on the promises of God and you will never fail.

lesjude · Dec 24, 2012

gracethroughfaith said:

That is the Hebrew name God revealed to the Israelites in Exodus 15:26. Yes, we have trusted Jesus alone for healing and all else He promises in His word for 35 years. He has never failed us.

crossnote · Dec 26, 2012

lesjude said:

God works through means.
Do you go to the market for your food? Why? Why not just trust God that He will SUPPLY ALL your needs?
Your misuse of Scripture befuddles me.
Besides what source are you using to craft your definition of dualism? It generally refers to the belief that there are two equal and opposing forces at work in the universe...one good and one evil.
Asking God to heal me by direct means (Himself) or indirect means (physicians)...whichever way He sees fit is not a dualistic view.

lesjude · Dec 26, 2012

Perhaps dualism is a poor choice. I was clear I meant God and the arm of the flesh for what God expects His saints to trust Him alone for within the meaning of the NT verb to save. Look it up in Vine's and see how it is used in the NT.
The OT Jews understood very well they could not trust God and man and an honest study will show this. Today Christians believe they can trust both the medical system and God for healing which is nowhere taught in the Bible. For one thing God NEVER shares His glory with another and Jesus, who is God, demonstrated healing as God's will and glory. Many are doing what Judges 21:25 says and reaping the consequences because they refuse to do what Romans 12:1 says. This makes Romans 12:2 impossible in regard to trusting Jesus alone for healing.
King Asa is a good example in 2 Chronicles 15:12-13, 16:1-14. Also see 1 Kings 18:21 and Jeremiah 17:5-8. Here is the clear OT promise with conditions: Exodus 15:26, Exodus 23:25, Psalm 103:1-6, Psalm 107:20 which Jesus demonstrated in Matthew 8:5-13.
Do you have the Acts 2:4 experience?

Blain · Dec 26, 2012

Well i have been through child abuse my parents starved me and drugged me, i have been through cancer, radiation i have bad brain damage and many medical problems but i never once blamed god for these and i believe the devil wanted to use these but i I have comeplete faith these things are being used even now to make me closer to god. These did not happen because i had sinned they happened to glorify god

Enow · Dec 26, 2012

lesjude said:

There are some things you are overlooking.

Luke was a physician, and I bet he did not repent of his profession either.

Jesus referred to a physicain for what they were to do.

Mark 2:17When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

We do not see Jesus ripping apart the profession of the physician at all. Yes: some suffered physicians and not got better at all and indeed, had gotten worse, but that was just testifying of their limited help.

Mark 5:25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, 26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, 27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.

That is not testifying that all physicians are bad or that physicians cannot help at all. That is not testifying that anyone that goes to physicians will not get better but worse. Anyone can look around to seeing people having gotten better and recovered by going to physicians and hospitals, so do not to take a verse as if meaning that at all.

Sickness is not always a sign of sin in a person's life.

Philippians 2:25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants. 26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. 27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow. 28 I sent him therefore the more carefully, that, when ye see him again, ye may rejoice, and that I may be the less sorrowful. 29 Receive him therefore in the Lord with all gladness; and hold such in reputation:

To believe such a thing would cause disreputation to a servant in Christ.

There isn't always a time when one can go to the Lord for healing and get an immediate & expectant result. It does not mean Paul was lacking faith.

2 Timothy 4:19 Salute Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus. 20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

So there should be no condemnation just because someone got sick & had died. It can happen to any believer in Christ. It does not mean lack of faith and certainly does not mean that you are limited only to God as your Good Physician.

Paul testified of having a thorn in the flesh that served this purpose.

2 Corinthians 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

God is not limited in His ministry as if only through healthy people.

zone · Dec 26, 2012

lesjude said:

Faith Assembly

Many of us have heard TV evangelists make statements like this: "God's love and His will for you is to enjoy perfect health; He wants you rich; He owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Would an earthly millionaire make his own children eat poor food, wear shabby clothes, and ride in a broken down family car? Of course not! Neither will your heavenly Father give you anything but the very best! What is the desire of your heart? Name it, claim it by faith, and it is yours!"

[the CULT leader of Faith Assembly] (October l7, l920 - December, l984) was one who adhered to the same tenets. He was born in Ewing, Kentucky, grew up in St. Petersburg, Florida, became a succssful businessman, coverted at the age of 31 into the Southern Baptist Church.

His theological background includes a Th.D. degree and a seminary professorship in Hebrew and Old Testament.

All this took place within about ten years of his conversion experience.

He left the seminary ranks and started a church of his own, the Faith Assembly, located in northeast Indiana. Among the beliefs he espoused was what is commonly called the gospel of guaranteed prosperity and health.

The November 23, l984 issue of Christianity Today says, "According to *******'s faith-formula theology, God is obligated to heal every sickness if a believer's faith is geniune. Faith must be accompanied by `positive confession,' meaning that believers must `claim' the healing by acknowledging that is has taken place."

******* wrote in his book, Positive Thinking and Confession (Faith Publications), "We must practice thought control. We must deliberately empty our minds of everything negative concerning the person, problem or situation confronting us."

He taught that after healing is claimed, symptoms of illness or injury that remain are viewed as deception from the devil. When death occurs despite a positive confession, it is interpreted as discipline from God or a lack of faith.

This type of thinking is the same as other cult leaders like Victor Paul Wierwille of The Way International who died of an illness. Apparently something was wrong with his faith, and also for Hobart Freeman, who too, died of an illness that may have been medically treatable.

The saddest part is that it did not stop with ********. There have been over 100 people (members) of ********'s Church who have died as a result of his teachings. Numerous lawsuits have been filed and parents convicted of child abuse.

The late ******* said, "To claim healing for the body and then to continue to take medicine is not following our faith with corresponding action.... When genuine faith is present, it alone will be sufficient for it will take the place of medicine and other needs," (Positive Thinking and Confession).

Christians need to be careful and not fall into such shallow teachings. God never promised perfection in the here and now on planet Earth. Perfection, for the believer, is reserved for Heaven.
watchman expositor

~

Faith-healing deaths: Previous stories
"...Most people have long forgotten the heyday of the Faith Assembly Church in nearby Wilmot, a now-defunct congregation of about 2,000. But Leach will never forget how her 24-year-old daughter, Alice, bled to death during childbirth on July 2, 1976.

Alice Leach wasn't the first to die for believing in the doctrines taught by the Faith Assembly. Nor the last. More than 90 deaths in eight states -- a majority of which were children or mothers in childbirth -- were blamed on the faith-healing practices in that one church, according to child advocates and news reports.

Indiana includes some of the same immunities as Oregon law for faith-healing parents. But unlike Oregon, it does not include a religious shield for homicide. Indiana prosecutors eventually brought charges against one couple and the church's leader. Efforts to prosecute those two highly publicized cases, coupled with the leader's sudden death, discouraged faith-healing in Indiana. But Indiana legislators have chosen not to eliminate the religious immunities that make it difficult to prosecute faith-healing parents.

That angers Elizabeth Leach, because the same thing could happen today. She thinks back on warning signs she never acted on and wonders aloud what it would be like to have grandchildren.

Twenty-eight years later, Alice Leach comes alive in the fuzzy black and white photograph in her senior-class yearbook. She's smiling and wears a cross on a thin chain around her neck. Alice was in the pep club and participated in drama, art and music programs.

Shortly after graduating, Alice joined Faith Assembly, fell in love with another member, got married and became pregnant. She never had prenatal care and decided to have the baby at home without a doctor. During the birth Alice started hemorrhaging.

Members of Faith Assembly surrounded Alice as her life slipped away over two days. The women attending the birth prayed instead of calling for an ambulance -- even after Alice died. One, a registered nurse, later lost her state license over the incident.

"Those people thought they could pray her back to life," Leach said.

Faith-healing deaths: Previous stories | OregonLive.com < click

gracethroughfaith · Dec 26, 2012

crossnote said:

I realize this qustions was not directed at me but I would like to share a bit of my own testamony on this matter.

I do not go to the market for my food! And if I do it is only becasue I enjoy eating the things I buy. I do not go to the market to buy food because I need food to live.

I trust God will and does supply each and everyone of my needs.

As a man who was once homeless with no income or a way to get things I may have needed I never once went without, as God provided everything I needed, there was alway food there for me, I always had water, I always had shelter.
I never once begged bread or went to a homeless shelter or food bank. God always just provided.
Not once did I doubt He would provide for me and sustain me.

There were a couple times while I was homeless I became very ill not knowing if I would pull though it. I did not seek after the doctors of this world I sought God alone and within the hour my strength and health returned.

Why did God not just keep my health perfect every day? Well we see in scripture the devil goes to God and insists that if he will allow him to plague us with something we will turn and curse God. So the devil tried to get me to curse God through illness. It did not work. My faith only grew stronger in the LORD.

I thank God always for the faith I have in him. For his Glory.

Blain · Dec 26, 2012

gracethroughfaith said:

I realize this qustions was not directed at me but I would like to share a bit of my own testamony on this matter.

I do not go to the market for my food! And if I do it is only becasue I enjoy eating the things I buy. I do not go to the market to buy food because I need food to live.

I trust God will and does supply each and everyone of my needs.

As a man who was once homeless with no income or a way to get things I may have needed I never once went without, as God provided everything I needed, there was alway food there for me, I always had water, I always had shelter.
I never once begged bread or went to a homeless shelter or food bank. God always just provided.
Not once did I doubt He would provide for me and sustain me.

There were a couple times while I was homeless I became very ill not knowing if I would pull though it. I did not seek after the doctors of this world I sought God alone and within the hour my strength and health returned.

Why did God not just keep my health perfect every day? Well we see in scripture the devil goes to God and insists that if he will allow him to plague us with something we will turn and curse God. So the devil tried to get me to curse God through illness. It did not work. My faith only grew stronger in the LORD.

I thank God always for the faith I have in him. For his Glory.

what an amazing testimony!

DiscipleDave · Dec 26, 2012

lesjude said:

Just would like to point out a correction here. During the time of Job, the Throne was in Heaven, and not on Earth. It will not be on Earth until the New City Jerusalem comes to the Earth. At the time of Job, the Throne was in Heaven. satan did not go to Heaven and be at the Throne. The Lord was on Earth in those days, that is where satan spoke with the Lord, on Earth, where he is bound. Once he was cast out of Heaven, he is to never return there.

lesjude said:

Are you suggesting that medicine is not of God but from satan? Could not Jesus have cured the blind man by His mere words, but He did not do that, but spit in dirt from the earth, to make a cure for the blind man. He did this very thing to show us, that things of the Earth mixed with things of God, can cure sicknesses and the such. Why did Jesus use the dirt? is it not as you say the arm of the flesh, dirt being from the Earth. Are not all medicines derived from the Earth as well? Yes they are. Jesus could have merely said "See" and the man would have seen. But for our benefit, He showed us that medicines are good too, that medicines (arm of the flesh as you say) mixed with Faith (the belief that Jesus healing power mixed with medicines can work) will work, because of the Faith in the medicines. i am not saying that a person can't be healed by Faith only with no medicine. It is all about the faith. A person may have Faith that Jesus will heal them without taking any medicines at all, and He does this for that person because of their Faith. Another person may have Faith that Jesus will heal them through the medicines that they take, and He does this for that person because of their Faith. Neither are wrong for both had Faith in Jesus, yes?

lesjude said:

i agree with you on this statement, if we are talking about the medical system today, and not the individuals that is under that system. The medical system of today is most certainly corrupt, greedy, selfish, uncaring, and the such. But that has nothing to do with individuals that have real issues in their flesh. Tell me can a person have faith in God that there is a cure for them via medicines? yes or no? Are you going to be the one to tell a person not to get penicillin to cure them, when it is God that brought about penicillin? We use wood (from the earth) to cook our food and make fires to stay warm in winters, and this is good, but to use a plant root to reduce a fever this is not good? God created all things on this planet, all things are good for He said it was good. Now if someone mixes ingredients of the Earth to make viruses are bio-hazard material, this would bad, yes? but how can taking things of the Earth and mixing them together in an attempt to HELP people be evil? Are life saving medicines from God or from the devil? If satan had his way, would he not kill everyone right now, and not give any unsaved person the chance to accept Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord? Tell me if a person (Saved or unsaved) takes a particular medicine and they are cured of the disease that they had, is that from God or from satan, that they were CURED?

lesjude said:

And Jesus showed us a clear method, by taking something of the Earth mixed with something from Him to heal the blind man, correct?

lesjude said:

You say you had aches and pains and even severe burns, did you use any creams at all for your burns? Aren't creams medicine? Did you take any aspirin, Tylenol, or something like that for your pain? Are they not medicines. If then you see a person who is severely burned, should you not use medicine to ease that persons pain? Or just let them suffer through the pain, knowing full well they can take some medicine to get rid of the pain.

lesjude said:

Are you saying that life saving surgeries are ungodly? i tell you the Truth, medicines are from God, not from satan, it is not in satans interest to help people, it is in satans interest to inflict people, not to cure them, not to help them. Medicines are from God and not from satan. Now it is True that the medical system is corrupt, and there is much wrong with that system, and all medicines should be free to anyone who needs it, or very cheap. But let us not confuse who gave us medicines and life saving operations and that is God, not satan. If they are from God and not satan, how then are they evil to use? The system may indeed be evil, but the medicines and operations that that system uses and abuses, is not evil but is from God.

Know you not that even the Tree of Life is medicine? Consider:

Revelations22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the Tree of Life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Ezekiel47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

If the leaf on the tree of life is medicine, how can it be said that medicine in not of God? When God Himself makes trees that are medicines.

Dear lesjude, if your Faith is so Strong that you need not any medicines or help from the medical system, that is awsome, and wonderful. one of the gifts of the Spirit is the gift of Faith. Not everyone has that particular gift buy may have one of the other gifts. Not everyone is at the same level of Spiritually either, for as it is written one may be on milk of the word and another on meat of the word. Clearly different levels. If your Faith is so strong that you believe you need not medicines at all, that you rely 100% on Jesus to take care of you and heal you of anything at all. That is awesome and great, would that all would have this kind of Faith. But they all do not, It is however wrong to tell others who have little faith that they should have faith as you do, when they are not at that level that you are at. If then you believe you do not need to take any medicines that is where your spiritual level is at. But another who believes that Jesus will cure them via medicines is at another level than what you are on. you are wrong to tell them to be at the level that you are on, when they have not reached that level of Faith yet. For example you said above you were healed instantly or very quickly, if this would not have happened, and you lived in aches and pain and severe burns for many years, you might not be at the level of Faith that you are at now. Being miraculously healed as you indicate plays a very huge part in where you are at spiritually in your Faith. If you weren't healed miraculously, you might not be at the spiritual level that you are now. My point is many Christians are crawling, some walking, some are running, few are flying. for one that is running, telling people they should not be crawling is not thinking about the process it takes for one to run. To run you must first crawl then walk. There is an order of things, and not everyone is running, not everyone is flying, not everyone is crawling, not everyone is walking. Everyone is at a different level and it is a process for one to reach the level that you are on, saying you trust Jesus 100% and need not any medicines or surgeries. What happens when you try to feed a baby a steak? They will not be able to swallow it or they will puke it up all over you. If you eat steak, fine, but do not try to feed steak to people who are not at that level yet.

^i^

crossnote · Dec 26, 2012

lesjude said:

no I had an Acts 9:3-4 and ACTS 2:2 experience. But what has that to do with the OP?

lesjude · Dec 26, 2012

Blain said:

I have never implied it might have. Job had not sinned. God totally healed him and he will do the same for you. Ask Him for each issue one at a time in child like faith and He will meet you.

lesjude · Dec 26, 2012

crossnote said:

Paul received the Holy Spirit after his experience and the all spoke in tongues in Acts 2:4. The point is just what Jesus says the Acts 2:4 experience is important for.

Tommy4Christ · Dec 26, 2012

Lesjude said:

Satan afflicted Job. He only had the general right because of sin coming in through Adam and Eve

Not sure of what you mean, sin was passed onto Job, such as the pagan teaching of original sin.

Job was declared righteous because he simple obeyed God from his heart and did the right thing, since he was created pure, free from any passed on sin gene, with free will and ability to obey God or disobey God, one leads to righteousness the other to disqualification.

Sorry if I misunderstood your post, just wanted to clear up what you meant by sin, weather its a disease passed onto us, or a free moral choice.

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Sin, Sickness, and Job

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