Not truly born again if we sin?

[Cobus]

jpgillespie2, now look at what Pickles has written, and if you know the relationship we have, you will know I doubt if there is any person here with a more gentle heart than Pickles. And I love her any day as much as I love myself, but if she is wrong, she is wrong. And I should honor God's Word more than I honor myself or Pickles.

I ask this.... God says in 1 John3:9... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
God did not say whosoever grew in Him to maturity does not sin, HE says if we are BORN of Him we cannot sin. That means the moment we are born of God sin is in the PAST! Now, is this BORN OF GOD and REBIRTH that Jesus mentioned in John 3 the same BORN or BIRTH. Yes! It has to be, becasue there is no THIRD birth!

So many people say they are born agan Christians, but God says these CANNOT sin, and they do! Are they born again, or born of God, when they still sin? NO! Or else God is a lier, God says... Whosoever is born of God sinneth NOT! Why do people say they are born again and still sin? Because they do not KNOW 1 John 3:9. And that lie of Rebirth and still sin came in good effect the last 40 years.

Here is a good one for you.... God says we should strive hard to enter into the straight gate, for MANY try to enter but FEW succeed. Who is this many that try, and who is the FEW that succeed. Is it not obvious in life? Is it not easy to discern which try and which succeed? Espesialy if we KNOW what God says about HIS ELECT CHILDREN. The ones that does not, cannot and NEVER sin are His, and the others are not. God said clearly HE KNOWS TO DELIVER HIS CHILDREN FROM UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.... If God delivers, it is DONE!

 

[zone]

God did not say whosoever grew in Him to maturity does not sin

Ephesians 4:13
New International Version (©1984)
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

New Living Translation (©2007)
This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God's Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.

English Standard Version (©2001)
until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God's Son, growing into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ's fullness.

International Standard Version (©2012)
until all of us are united in the faith and in the full knowledge of God's Son, and until we attain mature adulthood and the full standard of development in the Messiah.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ


Cobus, are you ever going to get around to finding out what telios means. EVER...

Cognate: 5046 téleios (an adjective, derived from 5056 /télos, "consummated goal") – mature (consummated) from going through the necessary stages to reach the end-goal, i.e. developed into a consummating completion by fulfilling the necessary process (spiritual journey). See 5056 (telos).


stop making it about you being sinless now!
if that is what is required Christ died for nothing!
any plan on being saved and letting Him cleanse you Cobus.
i wouldnt keep putting it off bud.

if there is a process of maturing....that means YOURE NOT PERFECT

 

[Cobus]

Zonie, I hope you are well.... Boy did we ride this horse into the ground? And thank you for posting Eph 4:13 in all the Bibles... They all mote ot less say the same.... So Zone, do you think these saints that needs to be furnished to the full (perfecting of the saints) still commit sin? (I say NO otherwise God would not have called them saints! They may not be in unity of faith yet, but SAINTS (Hagios) is already sinless. Not perfected yet, but already sinless (holy). Let me ask you this, even if we stop sinning, are we reborn then? I say NO! What is reborn or born of God? (God making a person perfect, unite him in truth and faith and Spirit, to the fulness of Christ. God giving a person the same GLORY Jesus had when HE WAS HERE! That is reborn or born of God!

Zone answer me this, can a person born of God sin? Can a person that is (TELEIOS) sin? Can a perfect man to the measure of Christ sin? NO NO and NO! This maturity, perfection is more than being without sin it is as much as Jesus was here on earth. Jesus says the GLORY HE HAD is in all who HE prayed for in John 17. And that Zonie, can be you and I as well. All we have to do is BELIEVE!
and that FAITH is also a gift of God, I wonder if we have the right to ask FATHER for that faith.

That faith that PLEASES HIM! You see Zone, when God bless us with HIS SPIRIT, HE actually makes us ONE with HIM. Imagine it Zone....ONE WITH GOD ALMIGHTY, because of Jesus' PRAYER, it happens right here on earth! For me or you it might happen right now! All it takes is a GODLY BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit. Zone you are a clever person, but maybe you need to loose some of that cleverness before you get the simple message.... God works on people, but they do not determine the time HE finishes. They cannot haste or slow Him. Growth is in HIS HANDS.

When are they Children of the Almighty? They were destined before the earth, and they are scheduled to be HIS, but they all end up in the measure of Christ Jesus right here on earth! That is why God promises this...
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

And would it transpire here.... Well this verse says YES.... Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. And this one.... Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Zonie, I do not even have boldness today, let alone in this state on that day, but I do see God's LOVE grow in me, I love you more than when we first met. And surprise surprise I live me more as well! Soon I will love with God's perfect love, and KEEP ALL HIS WORD!

 

[zone]

Zonie, I hope you are well.... Boy did we ride this horse into the ground? And thank you for posting Eph 4:13 in all the Bibles... They all mote ot less say the same.... So Zone, do you think these saints that needs to be furnished to the full (perfecting of the saints) still commit sin? (I say NO otherwise God would not have called them saints! They may not be in unity of faith yet, but SAINTS (Hagios) is already sinless. Not perfected yet, but already sinless (holy). Let me ask you this, even if we stop sinning, are we reborn then? I say NO! What is reborn or born of God? (God making a person perfect, unite him in truth and faith and Spirit, to the fulness of Christ. God giving a person the same GLORY Jesus had when HE WAS HERE! That is reborn or born of God!

Zone answer me this, can a person born of God sin? Can a person that is (TELEIOS) sin? Can a perfect man to the measure of Christ sin? NO NO and NO! This maturity, perfection is more than being without sin it is as much as Jesus was here on earth. Jesus says the GLORY HE HAD is in all who HE prayed for in John 17. And that Zonie, can be you and I as well. All we have to do is BELIEVE!
and that FAITH is also a gift of God, I wonder if we have the right to ask FATHER for that faith.

That faith that PLEASES HIM! You see Zone, when God bless us with HIS SPIRIT, HE actually makes us ONE with HIM. Imagine it Zone....ONE WITH GOD ALMIGHTY, because of Jesus' PRAYER, it happens right here on earth! For me or you it might happen right now! All it takes is a GODLY BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit. Zone you are a clever person, but maybe you need to loose some of that cleverness before you get the simple message.... God works on people, but they do not determine the time HE finishes. They cannot haste or slow Him. Growth is in HIS HANDS.

When are they Children of the Almighty? They were destined before the earth, and they are scheduled to be HIS, but they all end up in the measure of Christ Jesus right here on earth! That is why God promises this...
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

And would it transpire here.... Well this verse says YES.... Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. And this one.... Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Zonie, I do not even have boldness today, let alone in this state on that day, but I do see God's LOVE grow in me, I love you more than when we first met. And surprise surprise I live me more as well! Soon I will love with God's perfect love, and KEEP ALL HIS WORD!

that's awesome Cobus.
i will pray for you.
will you pray for me also?


John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 4:36
Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together.

John 6:47
I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

John 6:50
But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever.
This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

John 6:58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever."

John 12:44
Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.

John 20:31
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[Cobus]

You know I will, and Zonie I need all the prayers I can get. Special people like you and Pickles make me feel ...BELONG...
We do not agree on everything yet, but it does not have to stop us loving eachother for God's glory. I take way more stick from a lot of people, but I think even that is a learning curve. I suffer for obedience, but it makes my faith stronger. Even Jesus learned by his obedience.

I did not pick me to change, God did. I did not decide to love Zone, EG, Pickles, Abiding, or any other person, even the ones that does me harm. But God decided HE would put an enduring love in my heart for ALL the earth. I am amazed on how I forgive. How quieck I chill in heated situations. It has to be God's grace on me.

Let me share one thing with you, I know taxi-drivers in the world are renouned for their reckless manners, but South Africa is by far the champion. Here the taxis, mini-buses, are dangerous weapons. Just today a taxi killed our best moutain-bike rider. He came fith in the Olympics this year.

Yesterday morning driving to work an old man in one of these taxi mini-busses, stopped so close to my cars rear, I think we could have squeezed a match-box between the two vehicles. So I really had to consentrate not to let my vehicle ren back. Earlier days I would have panelbeated the driver, or rub some painful humps on him. "punched him" but I just smiled and let my car run back just a twitch to let him scare. I bet next time he would back off a bit.

I do not know this new Cobus, he really is turning out to be not a bad person. He does not upset so easely, he does not keep grudges any longer. And he defenately is no more a racist. Also his wife seems to love him more. Nope looks like God is hard at work with him.

May our Lord have His way with us. And may His will be done in us. For His is the power and the glory and the kingdom, Amen!
Off to bed.

 

[zone]

I do not know this new Cobus, he really is turning out to be not a bad person. He does not upset so easely, he does not keep grudges any longer. And he defenately is no more a racist. Also his wife seems to love him more. Nope looks like God is hard at work with him.

yup...looks like it
YAY Cobus!

 

[pickles]

jpgillespie2, now look at what Pickles has written, and if you know the relationship we have, you will know I doubt if there is any person here with a more gentle heart than Pickles. And I love her any day as much as I love myself, but if she is wrong, she is wrong. And I should honor God's Word more than I honor myself or Pickles.

I ask this.... God says in 1 John3:9... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
God did not say whosoever grew in Him to maturity does not sin, HE says if we are BORN of Him we cannot sin. That means the moment we are born of God sin is in the PAST! Now, is this BORN OF GOD and REBIRTH that Jesus mentioned in John 3 the same BORN or BIRTH. Yes! It has to be, becasue there is no THIRD birth!

So many people say they are born agan Christians, but God says these CANNOT sin, and they do! Are they born again, or born of God, when they still sin? NO! Or else God is a lier, God says... Whosoever is born of God sinneth NOT! Why do people say they are born again and still sin? Because they do not KNOW 1 John 3:9. And that lie of Rebirth and still sin came in good effect the last 40 years.

Here is a good one for you.... God says we should strive hard to enter into the straight gate, for MANY try to enter but FEW succeed. Who is this many that try, and who is the FEW that succeed. Is it not obvious in life? Is it not easy to discern which try and which succeed? Espesialy if we KNOW what God says about HIS ELECT CHILDREN. The ones that does not, cannot and NEVER sin are His, and the others are not. God said clearly HE KNOWS TO DELIVER HIS CHILDREN FROM UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.... If God delivers, it is DONE!

Hi ya cobus, I can see why you may see what I spoke to as wrong, and perhaps I needed to be more spacific.
But maby I can better explain what I was speaking to.
We are born again in Jesus, for His death paid the price for our sins.
His resurection brings eternal life, we recieve this eternal life when we repent sin and recieve Jesus.
By this Jesus places His Spirit in us, ( paul speaks well to this.)
So now in Jesus, we are given life in His spirit, no longer alive in flesh, but new born in His Spirit.
So we learn, live and grow in His spirit, the flesh now the temple that carries us.
Now we still may stumble and look to flesh, thus needing God's grace, but we need to always seek and live in Jesus's spirit, for this is where eternal life is, and one cannot sin in Jesus's spirit.
Paul spoke to the struggle between flesh and spirit, and how we cannot serve to masters.
That is why we need to seek to increase in Jesus's Spirit, and not serve two masters.
For we are called to live in Jesus!
But , like babies, we need milk for a while, and in time, we are called to meat.
For this is the good fight, the goal we are to run to, and keep faith in.
God is gracious, for grace covers our failings, so that we will not fall under the weight of condemnation while we increase in Jesus's Spirit.
Gods love is so great, that not only did He provide the price for sin, but covers us with grace as we grow in Jesus's Spirit.
Like Paul said, for if we sin we are covered by grace, does this mean we can sin more so that grace may abound, of course not.
Now the measure of each persons growth, is known by God, bought and brought by His love.
For scripture says, He who has begun a good work in you will bring it to compleation on the day of Our Lord.
Paul explains this in romans and many of His letters.
Anyway, I hope I may have explained this better,please forgive my lacking in scripture quotes.
But, if I have learned anything, it is that God does not give as the world does, and our understanding fails.
We need to seek and receive God's understanding, and in this, all will be revieled.
But mostly, His love , given in Jesus, is our salvation and explanation.

Keep up the good fight, keep the faith.
God bless
pickles

 

[pickles]

I just thought Id add, that scripture always explains all so much better than I can.

God bless
pickles

 

[Cobus]

If there is ONE person I would like to be ONE with in Chrsit it is you Pickles. Your love and tender spirit shines as the morning star. You have the EXACT same spirit as my wife. She is the calm in the family, and it rubs off! I am way calmer than I used to be. So I also grow in the identities of the Holy Spirit. We are changed by GROWTH, but the final touch is what I am thinking of.

In acts 8 I saw this in the city of Samaria, and we are the same, with different role players, but the process is the same. We become saints by grace and obedience. But we become HOLY and PERFECT, by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The perfection is not attained before the BAPTISM. Repent and be batized.... Repent is a process, baptism of God with the holy Spirit is an instant glorification. That is when the Lord Jesus comes INTO ME. But during the REPENT process HE LEADS me to be BAPTIZED. God only Baptize at the END of repentance.

here is what I just completed in another thread...

1. Let us look at REPENT.... REPENT is to turn around, From sin to God. To get a NEW MINDSET, from sin to righteousness. from fleshly thoughts to spiritual thoughts. From doing sin to doing righteousness. When is a person finished with repentance? When he still commit sin? Well is that not what repent is, TO STOP SINNING? So can a person be going to the second stage if He is not finished with the first stage?

2. Now the BAPTISIMO, Baptised part... When does God baptize a person with the Holy Spirit, to SET APART theis person for HIS HOLY GLORY? When I read Acts 8 this is what I see....

Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. Act 8:6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. Philip also preached the Gospel, REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED, AND YOU SHALL RESIEVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. And all the people believed this.

Act 8:7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed. Act 8:8 And there was great joy in that city. Philip truly did have the Holy Spirit, and He did wonders through Phillip. (Philip was an Evangelist/deacon)

Act 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: Act 8:10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. Act 8:11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. This was the false teacher they used to think was the GOD-MAN for their city... PLENTY OF THEM AROUND TODAY. False teachers.

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Ok so they must have repented from the false way to the TRUE GOD Philip preached. And Philip baptized them in the Name of Jesus. NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM, the only one Philip could minister was the WATER baptism. And even Simon turned to the Truth and was also baptized... Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: Now the apostles send Peter and John to pray for the people, for they truly repented but now they need to be BAPTIZED, the ONE BAPTISM in Eph 4. The baptism of the Holy Spirit, so that they can be PERFECTED (Set Apart) (recieve Born of God) (recieve Born Again) (be made a NEW CREATURE) (be glorified with the Spirit of God) God did appoint Philip to do the first part, and Peter and John to perform the second part. (Eph 4:11.... And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints,) The Holy Spirit has not fall on one of them YET! Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And now they recieved the Holy Spirit. Now their salvation was complete! And only NOW ARE THEY BORN OF GOD! They became saints in the time Philip changed the city to God, but they were not PERFECT YET! The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the ingredient God uses to perfect HIS SAINTS.

All the people were LED by the Holy Spirit in Philip, and in the Truth, and in their minds (conscience) but they were not yet Baptized or filled or implanted or BORN of the Spirit. This only happened once Peter and John prayed and layed hands on them.

May the Loving Lord Jesus Christ also set us apart for His Kingdom and GLory and Power, Amen!

 

[pickles]

HI Cobus, I didnt read all you wrote, but I think I get the basic of what you said.
And by the way, any good in your wife or I, is always Jesus, just thought you should know this.
Im trying to help you understand that one who accepts Jesus, recieves His spirit.
This Spirit resides in the body , the temple, that is why we are called to esteem to always do good, avoid sin, for flesh is where sin resides.
No, flesh cannot enter into heaven, unless thet flesh is made perfect.
It is the Spirit which enters into eternal life.
But Just as Peter spoke to running the race, fighting the hard fight, keeping the faith.
We do this also, we esteem to live always in the Spirit, but we also will sometimes stumble,, that is why grace is given.
Now Im not speaking to the sin that one knowingly commits thinking they can keep doing so, believing grace will cover it.
For Paul spoke to this.
I am talking about the sin of flesh, and how Jesus guides us and brings us in righousness for His names sake.
Jesus said, I place my spirit within them that repent and recieve me.
This is the spirit we live in and have eternal life in.
But flesh will sometimes cause us to stumble, and sometimes we do not see our sin untill God chastises us, thus in brokenness we repent it, and give up that flesh for Jesus.
No, one cannot serve two masters, but read 1 John, it speaks also to how we have an intersesor when we fail.
All my life I have sought to be good and do what was right, and one day, God chastized me, revieling my sin in what I was doing.
No one could accuse me of any wrong. but God showed me the truth of what I was.
I have known Jesus all my life, and gave Him my heart when very young, and recieved His Spirit then, but as I have labored through my life, I have still failed.
Did this mean I was not saved?
Not nessasarily, for God knew my heart, and that is what will be judged.
Peter spoke to being saved this day, but was he saved tomorrow? Only if He labored toward the goal.
The goal is to live always and only in Spirit.
For the Spirit is what enters into eternal life.
But one may still learn of sin they did not see before, or stumble because of a weak moment.
But scripture says that we will be lifted up if we stumble, and grace covers us.
If we remain alive in Jesus's Spirit, we cannot sin.
But if we stumble in flesh, grace covers us.
For we are no longer under condemnation, but grace.

Something to consider, in the last chapters of revelations, there is scripture that speaks to the final destruction of the accuser, satan.
For it is condemnation that destroys eternal life.
And it is faith in Jesus, His grace, that brings eternal life.
Please read and pay attention to the scriptures that speak to this.
For within these words is the understanding I wish I could better speak to.
Im not condoning sin, nor am I condemning either.
As one who spent alot of time, believing that I had to be perfect, only to learn that it is the perfect in me,( Jesus) that overcomes and grace that covers me.
I hope you will find the truth on this, in Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh.

like I said, we cannot rely on our own understanding.
Jesus said, I do not come to condemn the world , but to save it.
Psalm 23, he leads us in paths of rightousness for His names sake.
Peter said , I have run towards the goal, finished the race, fought the hard battle, I have kept the faith!
for it is when we recieve all of the word, (scriptures), resting not upon our own understanding, but that given through the Holy Spirit, in Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh, that we see.

I figure I still have more to see and learn , but I know I will, not by my might or understanding, but by God's.

God bless
pickles

 

[Cobus]

Pickles you speak as though the flesh has a will of his own? And maybe he has urges or wills to sin, but is the Spirit of God not stronger than the flesh? Is the flesh invincible? If it is not, then when is it beaten?

Can God make this fleshly body of me holy, and sacred and perfect that it CANNOT sin? Can God take this old sack that had old wine in and make it a NEW sack for the NEW wine? God says clearly that no person should put NEW WINE (The Holy Spirit) in an old bag (the old Cobus flesh). Nope that flesh and his lusts has to die. ALL the old wine needs to be removed before the NEW WINE will be put in the RECREATED SACK! God can reform the old sack to a brand new SACK OF HOLINESS...

Let me explain one little piece in the Bible as I understand it.

I am flesh (old sack) and old wine (my dirty sinning spirit and soul) but God gives a WAY OUT of that sack, So I offer my soul and spirit to be crucified on the cross. God's way out! And God let it happen, so now the SACK has NO WINE in it. But before God refills the sack, HE makes it NEW! And only HE can do this! But HE does it, and then HE PUTS NEW WINE IN THAT NEW SACK. Now the Cobus soul, is made new, and the New Spirit with the REVIVED SOUL id the HOLY SPIRIT, and it is POURED in the NEW SACK. then the NEW SACK is quickened (MADE ALIVE)(Reborn) to live a holy perfect life!

If GOD does not make the old flesh NEW the holy Spirit and the flesh would perish and get lost!
Look here...
And no man putteth new wine into old bottles (or sacks): else the new wine doth burst the bottles (sacks), and the wine is spilled, and the bottles (sacks) will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles(sacks).

The old sack is GONE, DEAD, Ceased to exist. Gone forever! The NEW HAS COME TO LAST FOREVER.
Pickles the flesh as we know it would not enter into heaven, but it does recieve God's glorification, just as Jesus did. Jesus' flesh COULD NOT SIN, because of the SEED in him, and the NEW wine is the SAME SEED Jesus had. He STILL cannot sin.

If I have God's Spirit in me, I cannot sin, becasue it is the same Spirit that was in Jesus. Jesus could not sin, and neither can any of God's Children. Remember we were called as sinners, and we make mistakes on out way there to be NEW CREATURES. But the NEW CREATURE CANNOT SIN!

Paul did say he fought the good fight, but Paul also said HE FINISHED THE RACE.... How can we fall if we won? There is a time when God's WORK on us is complete... Do you think the complete WORK OF GOD CAN STILL SIN? No! Look what God teaches... 2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Pickles do you believe: if a believer give diligence to make his calling and election sure that he shall never fall? I believe if God called and elected a man, and that man makes the calling and the election sure, HE CANNOT FALL!

Even the conciense is purified... Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Pickel the DEAD works is GONE in this person.... GONE, and in its place.....SERVE THE LIVING GOD WITH HOLINESS!!! The only way to serve God is PERFECTION! Jesus brings that when HE ENTERS INTO THE FLESH!

 

[pickles]

I think Im beginning to see where we are misunderstanding each other.
For as I spoke to before, there is being newly born unto Jesus, and then maturity.
Paul also spoke to this, I cannot quote as my bible is in the same room where hubby is sleeping, and dont want to wake him.
I think it is the last verces of chaptor 4 or 5 in 2 cor, but Id have to look it up to be sure.

Now we are no longer under sin, and I agree we do not sin because of this, that is why grace is with us, to keep us from being under sin.
Also, when alive in Jesus through the Holy Spirit we cannot sin.

Paul said here that although we carry the dying of flesh in our bodies, we are being renewed dayly in spirit.
But one is only first perfect in Jesus's spirit, and with maturity, does the flesh become perfected.
I am agreeing with what you are saying and sharing in scripture, but untill we grow in maturity, that one still at times sins, but sin has no hold on them, because of grace.
Yes, Peter had obtained the goal.
When peter spoke to winning the race, he was speaking to the maturity of spirit in one, obtaining the goal.
Just as when one lives in spirt, they cannot sin.
The scriptures you speak to were given to let us know how we are called to spirit, and must leave the desires of flesh behind.
As scripture says, one cannot serve two masters.
I probably should have used another word other than fail, should have said stumble, for scripture says that if we stumble, God will not allow us to fall.
But God's work in us is not defined by time, man defines time and stills sees in this way.
If a day is as a thousand years, the time of a earthly life is but a blink of the eye.
I wish I had better way to explain this, but some things, should be left to the word.
In fact, I was thinking about this last night, that trying to explain this falls short of the word already given to us.
Because the greatness of God's understanding, care, work in us and love for us is so vast, great, and perfected in Jesus.

I guess we could go on with this, but understand, Im not disagreeing, simply speaking to what I see missing.
Maby Im just doing a lousy job of speaking to it.
I ask you this question,why do we have so much scripture teaching on how to live as saved?
And so many scriptures to encourage believers ?

God bless
pickles

 

[pickles]

I did want to add cobus.
So does this mean only those perfected, mature are saved.
And does this mean that one who is not yet perfected? Is not yet saved?
Maby asking these questions, explains the reason for grace.

God bless
pickles

 

[Cobus]

Pickles God is so powerful. HE would not lose ANY soul HE is saving to Satan. Look what God said about HIS harvest and fruit and the manyfold.

Pickles, God says He that makes Holy, and those that ARE BEING MADE HOLY, are both of ONE, that is why He is not ashamed to call them brethren.... Heb 2:11. And God knows whose names HE wrote in the book of life. Now this is what I say and believe...
God knows the names in the Book of life. And all those will be perfected BEFORE they are made ONE WITH THE BODY of Christ. They cannot be part of a perfect body while they are imperfect. They are destined to be made one, and they ARE ONE even in their sanctification, but God does not stop HIS work until they are perfect.

God called sinners, but he does not call them to remain sinners. God calls them to be saints... Romans 1. And that calling is a HOLY caliing to be part of the Body of Christ Jesus. A PERFECT Christ Jesus! God will not call, sanctify and glorify, so that they can remain sinners. No He calls, sanctify AND GLORIFY the person to be part of THE PERFECT CHURCH! Where Jesus is head and ALL the members form a perfect Christ Jesus! Without spot or wrinkle.

I see it as this.... God's calling of a sinner, changes the WAY of the sinner, to become a saint under the LEAD of the ONE SPIRIT, and then God helps the person to die off the old WAY and LIFE. then God puts a NEW heart and a NEW Spirit in that person, to produce MANY fruit. God says, some bring forth 30, some 60 and others 100 fold.... It is the NEW creature that brings forth GOOD FRUIT. The old one only has to die. And god will not LET ONE OF THEM ESCAPE, the LOVE in the Spirit, would not allow one name in the BOOK OF LIFE, dissappear. That is how much God loves us.

Grace of God will carry us ALL the way to perfection. God will not retract His grace before ALL sin is conquered in a person, with the LOVE of GOD! If the old man is DEAD and God resurrected Jesus Christ in me, how can I sin, I do not even have life to sin, I am DEAD to sin. How can a dead person sin? The NEW life is IN CHRIST JESUS, and in Him IS NO SIN!

Pickles when you and I discuss this, it might save MANY people from false doctrine. You might not know how good this is for the people that reads this and for God's Truth to be preached.

This is part of God's Truth.... That we would be equal to Jesus when HE comes again, and we were made so HERE ON EARTH by the POWERFUL SALVATION of God Almighty, our ABBA loving FATHER!

My sis, thank you for your time and love. I know Abba will complete us both, FOR HIS GLORY! Amen!

 

[pickles]

Cobus ?
That is what Im speaking to.
grace! the time of grace while one is being perfected.

So maby we are argueing about something that was not there?

God bless
pickles

 

[pickles]

I do hunger for being better able to quote scriptures.
But , maby Jesus has me as I am for reasons He knows as better.
I just feel silly for going on when we were in agreement with scripture.
What I was speaking to in my earlyest post was how grace saves us while we are still being perfected.
Probably should have said it that way.
Its just so many say any who sin are not saved, at least that is how it is understood that I have heard from.
They need to understand that they no longer sin , because of grace, while being made perfect in Jesus.
It was just a matter of how we spoke to it.
Me being dislexic.
You good with scripture.
But like you said, Jesus always brings His truth.
I have always loved that about Jesus.

God bless
pickles

 

[Cobus]

Pickles we do not argue, WE EDIFY.... We break BREAD and share WATER...God's Truth.

Now about the danger of not believing in perfection.....
There will be many people that will say LORD LORD, to Jesus and they shall not enter into the kingdom of God! SAD, but TRUE.

This is why we had this discussion so that we can get to this point!.... When should we feel comfortable about our situation with Jesus? Are there people that feels secure in God and go to hell..... YES!!!!!

Let us look at them and WHY they are not goint to heaven.... They performed miricles in the Name of Jesus, they prohecied in the Name of Jesus, and they really believed they were saved sinners.... Matthew 7:21 to 23....
These people would come to JEsus and say in that day.... LORD I HEALED SICK PEOPLE IN YOUR NAME... but Jesus would answer... I NEVER KNEW YOU, DEPART FROM ME....

And the reason why they will not enter.... They NEVER STOPPED SINNING! YE THAT WORK INIQUITY! This is the reason Jesus gives that HE never knew them, and they should depart from Him.... YE THAT WORK INIQUiTY... that is SIN! How many pastors teach today that we will always sin. How many teach that God's grace covers ALL sin. Well why was these iniquity workers sin now thrown in their faces? Clearly God's grace did not work for them. WHY? Why may they that did miricles in the Name of Jesus, and still sin, not enter into the Kingdom, but I may when I still sin, and DO NOTHING for Jesus?

Every person that sins needs God's grace, but HE HAS TO STOP NEEDING GOD'S GRACE, and the only way to do that, is TO STOP SINNING! If there is no sin there is no need for grace. God wants to give us grace, that is why we get it, but God WANTS also to give us a NEW LIFE without sin. HE SAYS SO... A NEW HEART and A NEW Spirit i will give you, and HE WILL REMOVE THE SINNING heart! Grace does not stop at the forgiveness, It stops at the NEW HEART.... Then that person is perfect and ENTIRE, WANTING NOTHING.... That is when God is finished with the sinner! WANTING NOTHING... NOT EVEN GOD'S GRACE!

I will stop following Jesus, until I am PERFECT IN GOD! Jesus will LEAD no further, but FILL ME when we arrive IN GOD! As long as the Spirit has to convict me of sin, HE IS NOT IN ME YET! And I am not IN GOD YET.... As long as you sin, you NEED TO DIE!

The man that is dead to sin, CANNOT sin. And the LIFE God gives all who died to sin is the Holy Spirit filled life of a perfect soul.

I type this for the readers, and they will beifit much from this. God's Truth is this.... ALL IN GOD CANNOT SIN, becasue IN HIM IS NO SIN! MANY people is lieing, and they do not even know they are NOT IN TRUTH! The lie of Satan os mre abundant than the Truth of God, in people. Many are called, few are chosen.

God says ...Strive hard to enter into the narrow gate, MANY try and does not succeed. That means more are trying thatn those that do enter.... And those that did enter, NEVER HAS TO STRIVE AGAIN! They ARE NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST... WANTING NOTHING!

Today I pray.... Lord reveal this message to many people. And complete thou work in us, for thie are the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory froever! AMEN!

 

[zone]

But we become HOLY and PERFECT, by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The perfection is not attained before the BAPTISM. Repent and be batized.... Repent is a process, baptism of God with the holy Spirit is an instant glorification. That is when the Lord Jesus comes INTO ME. But during the REPENT process HE LEADS me to be BAPTIZED. God only Baptize at the END of repentance.

no Cobus.
come on! glorification is not now!
Paul wasn't glorified yet - why do you think you will be??

do you believe the Gospel?
if you do, and have repented of your old ways, and your unbelief,
be baptized for the remission of sins and receive the Holy Spirit!

you'll get your glorified body - but not one moment before any other saint!
in the meantime you'll be like all of us, groaning for the redemption of your body.
and like it or not, you're still going to battle with your flesh - quit looking for an instant fix!
The Holy Spirit WILL doing everything needed to deliver you home...but you better just obey the simple Gospel first, Cobus.

1 Corinthians 15:49
Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

 

[zone]

This is part of God's Truth.... That we would be equal to Jesus when HE comes again, and we were made so HERE ON EARTH

you're never going to be equal to Jesus, Cobus.
unless you plan to have all the saints and angels worshipping YOU for all eternity.
please get a grip Cobus.
seriously.

 

[Cobus]

This is what I meant, .....
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

and also this....
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.