Geocentrism

[zone]

Classic Kabbalah defines En-Sof, the "No-Thing," as "Formlessness" and "Perfect Unity," the Monad of Gnosticism, Tao of Taoism, Brahaman of Vedanta, Buddha-Nature of Buddhism, etc. It is likened to a "Cloud" or "Vapor" filling and filled by -- which is to say, coextensive with -- the entire universe. At a certain moment, according to Luria, this En-Sof determines to Create; but since it is everywhere and everything no room exists within itself for anything else except itself. Consequently, Luria says, En-Sof "contracted into and away from itself" to make a primeaval space within which to enact the event of creation. This he called the "TzimTzum." (We shall see later in our discussion that modern astrophysics uses almost precisely the same metaphors to describe the Big Bang of creation.)

Sabbatianism, Tikkun and the Big Bang Theory < click

 

[kenisyes]

I've done almost no formal writing on this, since my interest has been mostly limited to analysis of the pre-Flood rainmaking machines, and their theory. But here's my theory, in three stages. I have not thought about this in like 10 years now.

Start with an "intrinsic prophetic" model, which I learned indirectly from ancient Egypt. The original Pangea continent, the human body, the stars, and the flow of time, are all aspects of the same whole. God's personality projects in various ways creating them, but they are all shadows of one Him. Thus, everything is dependent on everything, and one can determine the relationships between stars, continents (future history of nations), and God by using the body as a model. For example, Israel is the heart of the world, Egypt the belly, head faces east. Simply draw the body over the Pangea continent, and each country's destiny (and the personality characteristics of its inhabitants) is determined. The stars over each part of the world then proclaim the cycles of God's grace (like the angels of the 7 churches in Revelation). The apparent celestial and earth movements movements are simply the working out of God's plan one cycle at a time. So everything is predetermined, except for man's sin, that is constantly gumming up the works and causing "corrections" to occur. The model is Egyptian, but heavily influences Hebrew thought.

I need some observations from math: God's world is obviously infinite dimensional. Because of sin interfering with full understanding, we limit our perception to what we can handle. The number of dimensions is controlled by two limiting factors: It is impossible to create a thinking being with a body of less than three dimensions; the nervous and digestive systems need to cross each other without intersecting. This fact was known 400 years ago. In 1991, mathematicians proved that it is impossible for an object of other than dimension 4 to self-transform into its opposite without self-destruction. Since the mind must repent to be saved, the mind must be four dimensional. Those two facts control the number of dimensions used for human life, and give us Einstein's universe.

Now here is some work I did uniting Genesis and Tesla's theory of ether. We have in mathematics the concept of "adjoint space", or the space of determiners of position and movement in regular space. If space as we know it, is comprlsed of matter, then the movements of matter constitute a space of their own. The movements affect the matter and vice-versa. Using a four dimensional time-space universe, creates four more dimensions to model the movements that we perceive as change. This model is mathematically almost a precursor of most current cosmological theories because of the mathematical basis. But, watch what happens Scripturally: The four dimensions of movement answer well to the spiritual world, as spirit motivates bodily change, and sin interferes with receiving communication from the Holy Spirit, showing that the spiritual dimensions are dependent on body, as space and adjoint space must be. The seven 'stacked" heavens of the Hebrews can be said to exist in the four spirit dimensions, while the four matter dimensions have the universe as we see it, without contradiction (this part takes some modeling to prove). Thus, all the Bible statements are true spiritually, whereas modern astronomy describes the physical universe. One more dimension is needed to allow for "tanninim". This fifth day creation is not whales (as is translated in Genesis), or serpents (as translated in Pharoah's palace), but is the connecting threads of purpose God put into everything (taking "tanninim" as "tennu" as an loanword from Egyptian). Water in the four physical dimensions, is Tesla's ether in the four adjoint dimensions. With 9 dimensions you now can resort your perceptions to have 3 universes of 3 dimensions each, corresponding to physical, soul, and spiritual, each of which with capabilities of motion, such as our three dimensional world has. You thus get a consistent model for physical, witchcraft soul-power, and God's world of prophetic purpose, and all interlock.

I like such models, because God is in charge of every piece, except sin. The Word of God can be what the Jews say it is, the blueprint of the universe. Prophets and miracles occur according to well developed physical laws (they are God's intention anyway, and preprogrammed to occur when God wants them). The mathematics gives results consistent with current theories of cosmology.

So basically what I believe, is God gave us everything. Sin caused us to be blinded to most of it. We perceive ourselves as three dimensional, with time as a fourth, which causes us to limit what God can give us to 9 dimensions as described. "Motion" and especially "rotation" enter reality as byproducts of our choice as a special case. So all our theories are nothing but us reflecting on what our sin has not interfered with us seeing of all the goodness god originally showed Adam and Eve. The resurgence of theory is due to glimpses into what sin has blocked, occasionally opened by grace.

I'm not sure how easy this will be to understand. I was just going to go to bed when I saw this post. I'll clarify whatever I can when I am more awake.

Pliny also tells us that gravity is heaven pushing things away. That's a special case of the theory I am outlining.

 

[kenisyes]

Kabbalistic Cosmology
and its parallels in the
‘Big-Bang' of Modern Physics

Kabbalistic Cosmology < click

A related piece of thought. A French mathematician, maybe Pascal, reasoned the age of the second coming by determining how long it would take for each molecule of earth to be saved by being present in a human body when it was baptized.

The only thing the two theories have in common is expansion. On the theory I just posted, einsof would be in the spiritual dimensions, causing and interacting with the big bang.

I often think it comes down to there are only so many thoughts we can communicate; they have to match once in a while.

 

[kenisyes]

Sabbatianism, Tikkun and the Big Bang Theory

Yakov Leib haKohain


"In previous essay I have alluded to the fact that Isaac Luria's 16th century, Kabbalistic notion of the "Sheviret HaKelim" (or "Shattering of the Vessels") -- on which the Neo-Sabbatian concept of Tikkun, or "Holy Repair of the Face of God" -- is virtually identical to that of the "Big Bang" theory of 20th-century astrophysics. The importance of this is that modern science has literally confirmed the validity of Lurianic and, therefore, Neo-Sabbatian Kabbalah and, by extension, the Jewish mystical texts, such as the Zohar, on which they were based. In this new series, I propose to explore this radical idea in greater detail and from the perspectives of Neo-Sabbatian Kabbalah, astrophysics and Jungian metaphysics...."

Sabbatianism, Tikkun and the Big Bang Theory < click


the Neo-Sabbatian concept of Tikkun, or "Holy Repair of the Face of God" -- is virtually identical to that of the "Big Bang" theory of 20th-century astrophysics.

The importance of this is that modern science has literally confirmed the validity of Lurianic and, therefore, Neo-Sabbatian Kabbalah and, by extension, the Jewish mystical texts, such as the Zohar, on which they were based.

I have to laugh at how these people are so shocked that theories match. Aristotle recognized that theories of both Darwin and Einstein could be proposed. It took him 3 paragraphs to prove them both wrong. I saw this when I read Aristotle maybe 20 years ago. I have not been able to find the references again, and I don't have time to reread all of Aristotle.

I still say there are only so many things we can say, so they have to duplicate sometimes.

All that "science has confirmed" is that we are not getting any smarter, we just think we are.

 

[zone]

Physicists Claim Evidence of Universe Before Big Bang
By Gabriel Gache

What was before this universe is currently anybody's guess, but it is highly likely that it was preceded by a similar universe and therefore time existed before the Big Bang. The evidence to back this theory is said to be found in the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation left behind by the light created when the universe was only 400,000 years old and could explain why time seems to move in a single direction, when logic says it should be reversible.

The CMB fills the entire space of the universe in all directions and although it is generally relatively smooth, it does contain some temperature fluctuations that are associated with the galaxy clusters we see today in the visible universe. The same fluctuations could be evidence of the fact that the current universe inflated from a previous one, says Dr Adrienne Erickcek from the California Institute for Technology.

According to Erickcek and her colleagues, the data provided by NASA's Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe points towards a scenario in which the current universe suddenly expanded into space.

"A universe could form inside this room and we'd never know", said the co-author of the study Professor Sean Caroll at the American Astronomical Society, because the phenomenon would be rather unspectacular. The study originally started as an attempt to explain why time moves only in one direction. Caroll says that although the laws of physics allow time to be completely reversible on the microscopic scale, on the macroscopic scale this never happens.

It is widely believed that this is a consequence of the second law of thermodynamics, which states that a system will always evolve from a low to a high entropy, simply put, from a highly ordered system to complete disorder. It basically says that the universe began its life in an ordered state.

"Every time you break an egg or spill a glass of water you're learning about the Big Bang", said Professor Carroll.

Physicists Claim Evidence of Universe Before Big Bang - Softpedia < click

 

[kenisyes]

Have you ever read "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"? This five book fictional trilogy covers just about everything imaginable, from the point of view of a random earthling, saved from destruction when earth was obliterated for a hyperspace bypass, by being beamed onto (teleported to, transmatted if you're British) the destroying spaceship by the cooks. The act of salvation was negotiated by the marooned correspondent for the galactic best-selling electronic encyclopedia of the same name. You really should read it. Here is the quote from the intergalactic online encyclopedia about the "babel fish". Babel Fish - Hitchhikers <click.

This is clear proof of how evidence can prove both sides of a claim, if filtered through enough creative minds with theological perspectives they wish to prove. And this (and Aristotle's metaphysics, which is so much better thought out than these physicists ever thought of) that makes me laugh, when I read such links as you provided.

 

[zone]

hi Ken...i've read all your posts, several times. i think i have resources that can speak directly to some of it, though the existentialism/mysticism/kabbalah can only be refuted by linking it directly to todays "science"...which is just kabbalah. and kabbalah isn't christian.

kabbalah needs billions of years, because of the belief [simply stated] in reincarnation.

all "theory", posing as science, but actually mystery religion.

NASA can be shown to be an occult psy-op from beginning to end. i can show when they began to use computer modelling...just like the climategate guys.

but concerning ETHER....the key is that we don't have to define ether. we just know its there. everyone agrees.

actually the Bible comes closest to defining it for us.
i'll post on that later.

zone

WHICH DOES GOD SAYS IS MOVING?
THE EARTH OR THE SUN?

Genesis 15:12
"...and when the sun was going down..."

Genesis 15:17
"...when the sun went down..."

Genesis 19:23
"The sun was risen upon the earth."

Genesis 28:11
"...because the sun was set...."

Genesis 32:31
"...the sun rose...."

Exodus 17:12
"...until the going down of the sun...."

Exodus 22:3
"...if the sun be risen upon him...."

Exodus 22:26
"...the sun goeth down...."

Leviticus 22:7
"...And when the sun is down...."

Numbers 2:3
"...toward the rising of the sun...."



Psalm 93:1
"The world also is stablished that it cannot be moved."

Job 26:7
"He...hangeth the Earth upon nothing."



more later............

 

[kenisyes]

I checked the quotes in Hebrew, and I was quite surprised. The English translation is what establishes the fixed earth, the Hebrew does not back it.

In English, "sun" means the big fiery ball. We have the word "sunshine" for the light from it. In Hebrew "Shamesh" is derived from "bright", so in that language, the ball in inferred from the light, not the other way around. "Set" is "bo" which can mean anything from "walked away" to "disappeared". "Rise" is "yatsa", which can mean "come, but also "became visible". Or it is "zarach", to "become bright". The place of the rising sun (Num 2:3) is mzrach, or the "place that gets bright first". The multiple interpretations of Hebrew vanish in the English. English suggests movement of a body, Hebrew confirms coming and going of the light, which can happen under either model.

"World is established so it cannot be moved", is "the civilized parts are established by God, lest they be altered." It uses "tebel", not "erets" for the earth. It's there to confirm that God has set up all the earth's kingdoms, and rules them all.

The Job one is correct as it stands, but is useless if the nothing is moving.

 

[zone]

I checked the quotes in Hebrew, and I was quite surprised. The English translation is what establishes the fixed earth, the Hebrew does not back it.

In English, "sun" means the big fiery ball. We have the word "sunshine" for the light from it. In Hebrew "Shamesh" is derived from "bright", so in that language, the ball in inferred from the light, not the other way around. "Set" is "bo" which can mean anything from "walked away" to "disappeared". "Rise" is "yatsa", which can mean "come, but also "became visible". Or it is "zarach", to "become bright". The place of the rising sun (Num 2:3) is mzrach, or the "place that gets bright first". The multiple interpretations of Hebrew vanish in the English. English suggests movement of a body, Hebrew confirms coming and going of the light, which can happen under either model.

"World is established so it cannot be moved", is "the civilized parts are established by God, lest they be altered." It uses "tebel", not "erets" for the earth. It's there to confirm that God has set up all the earth's kingdoms, and rules them all.

The Job one is correct as it stands, but is useless if the nothing is moving.

awesome!!!!!

i'll keep posting, and hopefully you can check the hebrew!

maybe i'll change my mind

 

[zone]

Galileo Was Wrong

"There exists no better exposition of the history and science of geocentrism. Very highly recommended and a must for all those interested in the issues surrounding geocentrism today"
(Gerardus Bouw, Ph.D., Astronomy)

"In their over 700-page book, Drs. Sungenis and Bennett make a convincing case for the special and central position of the earth in the cosmos"
(Vincent Schmithorst, Ph.D., Physics)

"Galileo Was Wrong is a work of monumental proportion which ranks, in my opinion, on a par with the meticulous observations of the Danish astronomer, Tycho Brahe, and the tireless efforts of Walter van der Kamp"
(Neville Jones, Ph.D., Physics)

"In their new book, Sungenis and Bennett take no prisoners...Now that the Enlightenment is over, it was inevitable that the system upon which it was based should come in for the powerful critique which Sungenis and Bennett provide. Not inevitable, however, was the brilliant way they provide it"
(E. Michael Jones, Ph.D., ed. Culture Wars)

"Sungenis and Bennett examine the anomalies that arise from the Copernican model...A must read for those who can set aside prejudices and a priori assumptions"
(Joseph Strada, Ph.D. Aerospace Engineering)

"The book Galileo Was Wrong forcefully addresses the history, science, theological, philosophical, and worldview implications of our place in the universe"
(Russell T. Arndts, Ph.D., Chemistry, LSU)

"It is with pleasure that I remand this volume into the hands of the reader"
(Martin Selbrede, Chief Scientist, Unipixel)

"Robert Sungenis and Robert Bennett have done a great service to science and to men of good will. Those who see the universe as the handiwork of the benevolent God need no longer be subservient to fairy tales"
(Anonymous, Ph.D., MIT);

"Galileo Was Wrong is a model for the kind of scholarship we need today -- intellectual understanding not as an end in itself, but as a commitment to reality, infused with moral passion, love for the earth, common sense and philosophical sensitivity"
(Caryl Johnston, M. Ed., Jefferson Medical College).

Galileo Was Wrong -- click

 

[zone]

THE SUN IS MOVING...NOT THE EARTH:

Psalm 19
1 The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky abovea proclaims his handiwork.
2 Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech, nor are there words,
whose voice is not heard.
4 Their voiceb goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.
In them he has set a tent for the sun,
5 which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber,
and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy.
6 Its rising is from the end of the heavens,
and its circuit to the end of them,
and there is nothing hidden from its heat.

~


Joshua 1:4
"...the going down of the sun...."

Joshua 8:29
"...as soon as the sun was down...."

Joshua 10:12
"...Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon...."

Joshua 10:13
"...and the sun stood still...."

^ check the account of this story - God CLEARLY STOPS THE SUN FROM MOVING, NOT THE EARTH.

Joshua 10:27
"...the time of the going down of the sun...."

Joshua 12:1
"...toward the rising of the sun...."

Judges 5:31
"...as the sun when he goeth down...."

Judges 8:13
"...before the sun was up...."

Judges 9:33
"...as soon as the sun is up...."

Judges 14:18
"...before the sun went down...."

Judges 19:14
"...and the sun went down...."

II Samuel 2:24
"...the sun went down...."

II Samuel 3:35
"...till the sun be down...."

II Samuel 23:4
"...when the sun riseth...."

I Kings 22:36
"...the going down of the sun...."

I Chronicles 16:30
"...the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved...."

II Chronicles 18:34
"...time of the sun going down...."

Job 9:7
"...commandeth the sun and it riseth not...."

Job 26:7
"...He hangeth the earth upon nothing...."

Psalm 19:4
"...tabernacle for the sun...."

Psalm 19:5
"...cometh out to run...."

Psalm 19:6
"...goes forth in a circle from one end of heaven to the other...."

Psalm 50:1
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Psalm 93:1
"...the world also is stablished that it cannot be moved...."

Psalm 104:19
"...the sun knoweth his going down...."

Psalm 104:22
"...the sun ariseth...."

Psalm 113:3
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Ecclesiastes 1:5
"...The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down and hasteth to the place where he arose...."

Isaiah 13:10
"...sun shall be darkened in his going...."

Isaiah 38:8
"...is gone down on the sundial of Ahaz...."

Isaiah 38:8
"...so the sun returned...."

Isaiah 41:25
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Isaiah 45:6
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Isaiah 59:19
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Isaiah 60:20
"...the sun shall no more go down...."

Jeremiah 15:9
"...her sun is gone down while it was yet day...."

Daniel 6:14
"...going down of the sun...."

Amos 8:9
"...cause the sun to go down at noon...."

Jonah 4:8
"...when the sun did arise...."

Micah 3:6
"...and the sun shall go down...."

Nahum 3:17
"...when the sun ariseth...."

Habakkuk 3:11
"...the sun and moon stood still in their habitation...."

Malachi 1:11
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Matthew 5:45
"...for He maketh His sun to rise...."

Matthew 13:6
"...and when the sun was up...."

Mark 1:32
"...when the sun did set...."

Mark 4:6
"...when the sun was up...."

Mark 16:2
"...at the rising of the sun...."

Luke 4:40
"...when the sun was setting...."

Ephesians 4:26
"...let not the sun go down upon your wrath...."

James 1:11
"...for the sun is no sooner risen...."

..............

NUMBER OF VERSES WHICH STATE THE SUN IS MOVING - 67 IN 37 BOOKS

NUMBER OF VERSES WHICH STATE THE EARTH IS MOVING - 0

 

[zone]

Genesis 1
11And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plantse yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 12The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

14And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons,f and for days and years, 15and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.


there was no sun for the earth to go around....until the 4th day!
and God says nothing about making the earth orbit stuff! ever.

 

[kenisyes]

Once again, the word for sun is always shamesh (to my way of thinking, this single word disqualifies most Scriptures from proving anything, as we cannot tell if they are speaking of the sunlight, rather than the ball", the words for rise and set are the same. I have checked each verse, and the ones I don't mention are all those same words.

Ps. 19, "runs it's course" can also mean traverses a path. The sunlight follows a predicatable course. "Sun stand still" can also mean "tarry". The Chinese record a double night that day. Jdg. 8:13 adn 14:18 is probably a wrong translation. The Hebrew for sunrise means "to scrape with a potsherd". I would imagine, it means, "before the last sliver of time is used". Sun is not mentioned in the verse. jdg. 9:33 is interesting, as it uses a word for "if you get up" just after sun rising; that word describes the motion of a person rising, and is not the same word as is used for the sun. Is. 38 uses terms like we would use, subtracted ten degrees. This use proves again that "sun" refers to the light, and not the ball, as does Is. 60:20.

The word in Dan. 6:14 is different, sun going down, it is me'al or delivering itself somewhere else. This is closer to what we mean in English.

I Chr. 16:30, the earth (planet) and the world (civilization) are established, so they will not be removed. It does not specify or imply place or orbit. Ps. 93:1 is the same.

Job 9:6-7 is both sun and earth. He "moves the earth out of it's ordained place (again either place or orbit), he commands the Slivers of time (the word from Judges again) that they do not shine, and keeps the stars from shining.

Is. 13:10, "moon shall not cause her light" is "glitter" referring to the reflected light of the sun.

Hab. 3:11 does not refer back to Joshua. The word used is not 'Tarry", but "abide". It could just mean that the astological interpretation did not change.

I'm not sure the Greek can tell us anything. "Sun" is used both of the light and the ball. Risen is "started doing it's thing", but "set" is really, moved down". But, Greek is not God's language like Hebrew is, and the phrases are just used to speak of time of the day.

The Genesis passages won't help, because ch. 1 is how God "bara", formed the universe, and is held by the Jews to refer to His decisions in heaven (also stated precisely in 2:4). Ch. 2 is how He finished creation (note in 2:5 there are no plants yet, waiting for man, showing it is a different manifestation of God's actions). In 2:7, God yatsar "formed" man, for example. In our terms, God decided on the plan in Gen. 1, and made the plan appear in the univers (or earth) in Gen. 2. The sun and the moon are created as "givers of light", not as balls of anything. They are set in the firmament. No statement is made whether anything is rotating at this time.

 

[kenisyes]

Here are a few of the ancient writings about this (click the titles):
The Egyptian Heaven and Hell Ancient Egypt
The Internet Classics Archive | Timaeus by Plato Ancient Greece
Pliny's Natural history. In thirty-seven books : Pliny, the Elder : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive Ancient Rome. You only need book 2, but you have to take it all, I guess. Perseus has the same text online, but you have to keep turning pages, and the website was horribly slow last night when I tried it.
Chapter I: The Creation of the World Jewish

Each one is standard reference for that culture. Only the Jewish one is a secondary source. (The printed Ginzberg is footnoted to Talmud and Haggadah.) The others were all written by scholars of that time and culture.

 

[zone]

Once again, the word for sun is always shamesh (to my way of thinking, this single word disqualifies most Scriptures from proving anything, as we cannot tell if they are speaking of the sunlight, rather than the ball", the words for rise and set are the same. I have checked each verse, and the ones I don't mention are all those same words.

Ps. 19, "runs it's course" can also mean traverses a path. The sunlight follows a predicatable course. "Sun stand still" can also mean "tarry". The Chinese record a double night that day. Jdg. 8:13 adn 14:18 is probably a wrong translation. The Hebrew for sunrise means "to scrape with a potsherd". I would imagine, it means, "before the last sliver of time is used". Sun is not mentioned in the verse. jdg. 9:33 is interesting, as it uses a word for "if you get up" just after sun rising; that word describes the motion of a person rising, and is not the same word as is used for the sun. Is. 38 uses terms like we would use, subtracted ten degrees. This use proves again that "sun" refers to the light, and not the ball, as does Is. 60:20.

The word in Dan. 6:14 is different, sun going down, it is me'al or delivering itself somewhere else. This is closer to what we mean in English.

I Chr. 16:30, the earth (planet) and the world (civilization) are established, so they will not be removed. It does not specify or imply place or orbit. Ps. 93:1 is the same.

Job 9:6-7 is both sun and earth. He "moves the earth out of it's ordained place (again either place or orbit), he commands the Slivers of time (the word from Judges again) that they do not shine, and keeps the stars from shining.

Is. 13:10, "moon shall not cause her light" is "glitter" referring to the reflected light of the sun.

Hab. 3:11 does not refer back to Joshua. The word used is not 'Tarry", but "abide". It could just mean that the astological interpretation did not change.

I'm not sure the Greek can tell us anything. "Sun" is used both of the light and the ball. Risen is "started doing it's thing", but "set" is really, moved down". But, Greek is not God's language like Hebrew is, and the phrases are just used to speak of time of the day.

The Genesis passages won't help, because ch. 1 is how God "bara", formed the universe, and is held by the Jews to refer to His decisions in heaven (also stated precisely in 2:4). Ch. 2 is how He finished creation (note in 2:5 there are no plants yet, waiting for man, showing it is a different manifestation of God's actions). In 2:7, God yatsar "formed" man, for example. In our terms, God decided on the plan in Gen. 1, and made the plan appear in the univers (or earth) in Gen. 2. The sun and the moon are created as "givers of light", not as balls of anything. They are set in the firmament. No statement is made whether anything is rotating at this time.

very cool....

"But, Greek is not God's language like Hebrew is"????

Ken?
are you sure this what you mean to say?

"They are set in the firmament" < exacty! so if the firmament is what we call ether, why can't the ether with everything in it revolves around the earth?

summary of your opinion so far?

is it that so far you see that scripture doesn't prove Helio?
that would be a good start.

but i don't want to draw conclusions about your conclusions....this is unsettling though: "But, Greek is not God's language like Hebrew is"

love you Ken.
back shortly.

 

[zone]

Here are a few of the ancient writings about this (click the titles):
The Egyptian Heaven and Hell Ancient Egypt
The Internet Classics Archive | Timaeus by Plato Ancient Greece
Pliny's Natural history. In thirty-seven books : Pliny, the Elder : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive Ancient Rome. You only need book 2, but you have to take it all, I guess. Perseus has the same text online, but you have to keep turning pages, and the website was horribly slow last night when I tried it.
Chapter I: The Creation of the World Jewish

Each one is standard reference for that culture. Only the Jewish one is a secondary source. (The printed Ginzberg is footnoted to Talmud and Haggadah.) The others were all written by scholars of that time and culture.

okay....i've delved some into the Jewish philosophers.
and they are what actually refute what God said.
they in reality ended up teaching reincarnation.

"6 million jews [souls who supposedly were at Sinai] make up "all israel" < kabbalah/zohar. time will be complete when all those souls have been reincarnated enough times. or summink?

more on that later.

what about Islam? the Arabs were pretty good astronomers and they gave us math (or zero anyways).
what about their understanding?

the Helio thing called science is NEW....Enlightenment stuff - and we know what other junk we got from that.
it's really Mystery Religion in a white NASA coat.

NASA is a Freemasonic/Theosophist cult.

more on that later too.

we didn't go to the moon....if they're willing to stage that hoax, what else are they lying about?

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

DA...could you explain Polaris (The North Star)?

INTRODUCTION (just to start a dialogue):

Polaris, or the "North Star" appears for a time to remain stationary in the sky over the northern hemisphere. In the southern hemisphere, the so-called 'southern cross' is (was?) used as a reference.

Enoch was shown celestial 'gates' as it were. This was done by driving stakes in the ground to show the location of the sun rise and sun setting shadows during the summer and winter solstices and the equinoxes. Such a system of markers was called a 'HenGe' (which cannot be twisted to say G.E.-HEN (though Nancy Lanza was) as this would seem to require a twisted mind to play such word games, one might even begin to question why Ge-henna (Greek &#947;&#941;&#949;&#957;&#957;&#945 is the New Testament word relating to Hell or the place of sacrifice of Moloch, a topic for another thread).

One such 'henge' was Stonehenge in England.

Showing the solstice and equinox sunrise and sunset shadows indicates how the sun's relationship to the earth appears to change over the course of a year (enoch's "age" was 365 remember). This was a nice system. However, over time, because the earth appears to rock back and forth (Isaiah), in time the pole stars do not align and the equinox sunrise points to a new constellation. This concept is called the precession of the equinoxes as a general term.

Isaiah 24:20 "The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall totter like a hut; its transgression shall be heavy upon it, and it will fall, and not rise again."

Ps 84:11 - For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD will give grace and glory; no good thing will He withhold from those who walk uprightly.

Prov 4:18 - But the path of the just is like the shining sun, that shines ever brighter unto the perfect day.

Isa 60:1 - Arise, shine; for your light has come! And the glory of the LORD is risen upon you.

Mal 4:2 - But to you who fear My name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings;

THE ONLY REFERENCE POINT IS JESUS!!

The amount of time that it takes for the precession to go through all 12 signs is roughly 25,765 years (2150 x 12 = 25800). This is also called the “Great Year,” and ancient societies were very aware of this. They referred to each 2150 year period as an “age.” From 4300 b.c. to 2150 b.c., it was the Age of Taurus, the Bull. From 2150 b.c. to 1 a.d., it was the Age of Aries, the Ram, and from 1 a.d. to 2150 a.d. it is the Age of Pisces (The Fish), the age we are still in to this day, and in and around 2150, we will enter the new age: the Age of Aquarius (The Water Bearer).

There is a lot involved in this, but it does relate to Stonehenge and OF COURSE to the Pyramid (and Sphinx) which Isaiah profusely references. The Pyramid needing only to be a marker of its time. Jesus marked a new time (Pisces) resetting the clock as it were, and pointing to a new time (Water Bearing Jesus).

I have to confess, I reviewed the parameters for missile guidance and fire control thinking about this post. I got afraid that Kenisyes might be tempted to do a Fourier Analysis on the energy in the universe. One could certainly get off on tangents in such a discussion ...

Good Will Hunting: [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrOZllbNarw[/video]
(dont tell nodmyheadlikeyeah)

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

 

[tribesman]

THE SUN IS MOVING...NOT THE EARTH:

Psalm 19
1 The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky abovea proclaims his handiwork.
2 Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech, nor are there words,
whose voice is not heard.
4 Their voiceb goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.
In them he has set a tent for the sun,
5 which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber,
and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy.
6 Its rising is from the end of the heavens,
and its circuit to the end of them,
and there is nothing hidden from its heat.

~


Joshua 1:4
"...the going down of the sun...."

Joshua 8:29
"...as soon as the sun was down...."

Joshua 10:12
"...Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon...."

Joshua 10:13
"...and the sun stood still...."

^ check the account of this story - God CLEARLY STOPS THE SUN FROM MOVING, NOT THE EARTH.

Joshua 10:27
"...the time of the going down of the sun...."

Joshua 12:1
"...toward the rising of the sun...."

Judges 5:31
"...as the sun when he goeth down...."

Judges 8:13
"...before the sun was up...."

Judges 9:33
"...as soon as the sun is up...."

Judges 14:18
"...before the sun went down...."

Judges 19:14
"...and the sun went down...."

II Samuel 2:24
"...the sun went down...."

II Samuel 3:35
"...till the sun be down...."

II Samuel 23:4
"...when the sun riseth...."

I Kings 22:36
"...the going down of the sun...."

I Chronicles 16:30
"...the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved...."

II Chronicles 18:34
"...time of the sun going down...."

Job 9:7
"...commandeth the sun and it riseth not...."

Job 26:7
"...He hangeth the earth upon nothing...."

Psalm 19:4
"...tabernacle for the sun...."

Psalm 19:5
"...cometh out to run...."

Psalm 19:6
"...goes forth in a circle from one end of heaven to the other...."

Psalm 50:1
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Psalm 93:1
"...the world also is stablished that it cannot be moved...."

Psalm 104:19
"...the sun knoweth his going down...."

Psalm 104:22
"...the sun ariseth...."

Psalm 113:3
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Ecclesiastes 1:5
"...The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down and hasteth to the place where he arose...."

Isaiah 13:10
"...sun shall be darkened in his going...."

Isaiah 38:8
"...is gone down on the sundial of Ahaz...."

Isaiah 38:8
"...so the sun returned...."

Isaiah 41:25
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Isaiah 45:6
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Isaiah 59:19
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Isaiah 60:20
"...the sun shall no more go down...."

Jeremiah 15:9
"...her sun is gone down while it was yet day...."

Daniel 6:14
"...going down of the sun...."

Amos 8:9
"...cause the sun to go down at noon...."

Jonah 4:8
"...when the sun did arise...."

Micah 3:6
"...and the sun shall go down...."

Nahum 3:17
"...when the sun ariseth...."

Habakkuk 3:11
"...the sun and moon stood still in their habitation...."

Malachi 1:11
"...from the rising of the sun...."

Matthew 5:45
"...for He maketh His sun to rise...."

Matthew 13:6
"...and when the sun was up...."

Mark 1:32
"...when the sun did set...."

Mark 4:6
"...when the sun was up...."

Mark 16:2
"...at the rising of the sun...."

Luke 4:40
"...when the sun was setting...."

Ephesians 4:26
"...let not the sun go down upon your wrath...."

James 1:11
"...for the sun is no sooner risen...."

..............

NUMBER OF VERSES WHICH STATE THE SUN IS MOVING - 67 IN 37 BOOKS

NUMBER OF VERSES WHICH STATE THE EARTH IS MOVING - 0

Really worth some serious thought and study.

 

[zone]

Really worth some serious thought and study.

later today i will post PROOF that the modern Helios are lying.
love you
z