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God will not accept the works of anyone who believes they will better entitle them to enter Heaven, for that diminishes the work of Christ on the cross for us. Such works must be done through fear, and pride
The works God wants are those done out of gratitude and love for the free salvation that is ours through Christ our Lord
As I told you yesterday, when I looked after my dying mother, I obeyerd the law of the Ten Comamndments concerning her, and I never once had to refer to the literal commands. I did not strive to have to obey them where she was concerned, why not? Because I loved her.
No one obeys by looking to the literal law andf striving to obey it, for if you do not love you cannot obey it, if you do love there is no need to refer to it.
For a sincere Christian if they strive to obey the literal law, in anyway believing their Christianity hinges on obediance to it, they must become crushed, or hard nosed, nothing else is possible
The works God wants are those done out of gratitude and love for the free salvation that is ours through Christ our Lord
As I told you yesterday, when I looked after my dying mother, I obeyerd the law of the Ten Comamndments concerning her, and I never once had to refer to the literal commands. I did not strive to have to obey them where she was concerned, why not? Because I loved her.
No one obeys by looking to the literal law andf striving to obey it, for if you do not love you cannot obey it, if you do love there is no need to refer to it.
For a sincere Christian if they strive to obey the literal law, in anyway believing their Christianity hinges on obediance to it, they must become crushed, or hard nosed, nothing else is possible
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JGPS - I have a question about the statement 'You cannot say you have love and still transgress the law'.
Does that not depend on how one sees love? And secondly, does that mean you, as a person, never sin?
I could say that part of love is patience, and in an instance of having patience to someone, then I have loved.
But also, I could, on another occasion, as Paul says, 'partake in that which I know I shouldn't'. For instance, I could have 'impatience'.
So on one day, I have loved, and another, I have not.
Tell me, do either of these things affect where I go after death?
Because always a person will fail sometimes. So is it about sticking to all the law then?
Or is it about trying to love?
Which is attainable?
Which leads unto The Kingdom of God and which to temptation?
Does that not depend on how one sees love? And secondly, does that mean you, as a person, never sin?
I could say that part of love is patience, and in an instance of having patience to someone, then I have loved.
But also, I could, on another occasion, as Paul says, 'partake in that which I know I shouldn't'. For instance, I could have 'impatience'.
So on one day, I have loved, and another, I have not.
Tell me, do either of these things affect where I go after death?
Because always a person will fail sometimes. So is it about sticking to all the law then?
Or is it about trying to love?
Which is attainable?
Which leads unto The Kingdom of God and which to temptation?
I mean exactly this and no more or less.
When you transgress the law you make an unloving action. When you do it, you do not do it in love, and have not love for the person or thing you do it too.
You cannot say you lovingly broke the Law of God. The sum of the Law IS love, if you cannot love you cannot do the law, and where you cannot do the law you cannot love. The two concepts are married.
When you transgress the law you make an unloving action. When you do it, you do not do it in love, and have not love for the person or thing you do it too.
You cannot say you lovingly broke the Law of God. The sum of the Law IS love, if you cannot love you cannot do the law, and where you cannot do the law you cannot love. The two concepts are married.
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You were attempting to show that it is by our work and our Law keeping that would cause us to enter into the Kingdom of God.
I was showing you that perhaps the credit for the work should be placed elsewhere.
It is impossible for you to get there by your work.
But what is impossible for you is easy for God.
I agree, as far as the condition that the person transgressing the law realises what love is, and knows the conditions of their transgression, and why it is a transgression.
'For I partake in that which I KNOW I shouldn't do'.
The reason I say that, is because, for instance, the spirit of charity and love is very much a motive. A desire to be compassionate. A compassionate heart. Sometimes we do things that probably wouldn't be seen as 'lawful', in the strict sense, but our heart is compassionate.
And I think this is the reason that we are commanded now to 'love', rather than abide by law. Because God looks at the heart.
I think it is better to have a compassionate heart and make a genuine mistake, than to have the law and look for a loophole.
And I think that's a lot of what Paul's saying too.
'For I partake in that which I KNOW I shouldn't do'.
The reason I say that, is because, for instance, the spirit of charity and love is very much a motive. A desire to be compassionate. A compassionate heart. Sometimes we do things that probably wouldn't be seen as 'lawful', in the strict sense, but our heart is compassionate.
And I think this is the reason that we are commanded now to 'love', rather than abide by law. Because God looks at the heart.
I think it is better to have a compassionate heart and make a genuine mistake, than to have the law and look for a loophole.
And I think that's a lot of what Paul's saying too.
As to the question of the thrread
Paul did not die to wanting the good and Holy laws of God to be reflected in his life
He died to a righteousness acording to law, therefore he knew the law could not condemn him, and he lived by a righteousness of faith in Christ
Once he did that:
Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law
Rom 3:31
For the power of sin is the law
1Cor15:56
Paul did not die to wanting the good and Holy laws of God to be reflected in his life
He died to a righteousness acording to law, therefore he knew the law could not condemn him, and he lived by a righteousness of faith in Christ
Once he did that:
Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law
Rom 3:31
For the power of sin is the law
1Cor15:56
I agree in the essence. Though would posit that one has an obligation to study and increase their understanding, so that they will not in the long run sin in ignorance.
I also take issue with this:
Something that is not lawful is something that is an attack on someone or violation against them. What law would you break out of compassion? I could not see a case where you would mug someone or sleep with their wife for their own good. Do you believe its possible to break the law out of compassion? It seems a contradiction of terms to me.
I also take issue with this:
Something that is not lawful is something that is an attack on someone or violation against them. What law would you break out of compassion? I could not see a case where you would mug someone or sleep with their wife for their own good. Do you believe its possible to break the law out of compassion? It seems a contradiction of terms to me.
C
You were attempting to show that it is by our work and our Law keeping that would cause us to enter into the Kingdom of God. -- I was attempting to show that we are to keep the commandments and the faith and how we are to do that. Simply, I was attempting to show that we walk in faith and that is very well defined that we are to obey the Lord in His leading. Without obedience, is He really our Lord?
As pertaining to the Law, it is not summed so perciously in Love. So, yes we are to love. And when we love we keep the Law. If we keep not the Law then we do not love. If we do not love then.......
I was showing you that perhaps the credit for the work should be placed elsewhere. -- There is no credit earned when we trust in God to lead us home. Were those in the wilderness who were lead to the Promised Land given credit to their hearkening to His Voice. So, I ask again, is placing our trust in Him a work?
It is impossible for you to get there by your work. -- Is following His command in faith really a work? And are we still not told that it is those who keep the comammandments (those who love) and the faith who will not only be those who are persecuted, but also receive everlasting life? How can I say that trusting (an act peformed by one) in God's leading, is earning my salvation. Trusting (believing) is simply concuring to God. Did not our Lord Himself concur with God when He Himself choose to do God's will?
But what is impossible for you is easy for God. -- All the more reason to obey his led.
As pertaining to the Law, it is not summed so perciously in Love. So, yes we are to love. And when we love we keep the Law. If we keep not the Law then we do not love. If we do not love then.......
I was showing you that perhaps the credit for the work should be placed elsewhere. -- There is no credit earned when we trust in God to lead us home. Were those in the wilderness who were lead to the Promised Land given credit to their hearkening to His Voice. So, I ask again, is placing our trust in Him a work?
It is impossible for you to get there by your work. -- Is following His command in faith really a work? And are we still not told that it is those who keep the comammandments (those who love) and the faith who will not only be those who are persecuted, but also receive everlasting life? How can I say that trusting (an act peformed by one) in God's leading, is earning my salvation. Trusting (believing) is simply concuring to God. Did not our Lord Himself concur with God when He Himself choose to do God's will?
But what is impossible for you is easy for God. -- All the more reason to obey his led.
No, no of course not. I don't mean anything as clearly motivated as infidelity. I mean something perhaps more subtle and easy to overlook.
For instance, if I said something rude, and should have really held my tongue, but at the time I didn't realise why it would be rude. i go back to it and say 'Wow, that was rude. probably shouldn't have said that'.
I mean, love isn't rude.
Also, I do agree that one should study. But some people find concepts difficult to grasp. It might take them twice as long as me or you.
For instance, if I said something rude, and should have really held my tongue, but at the time I didn't realise why it would be rude. i go back to it and say 'Wow, that was rude. probably shouldn't have said that'.
I mean, love isn't rude.
Also, I do agree that one should study. But some people find concepts difficult to grasp. It might take them twice as long as me or you.
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C
Was it not our, my and your, very Lord Himself who concurred with God to perform the very acts which led Him to be our Savior? Shall we then conclude that Jesus obtained His own salvation from condemnation when He went to Hades (I am speaking of Him as the man Jesus, not as God)? Or shall we say that through a faith based walk, that He was risen by God and exalted? Truly if the Word came to give us the example to follow to have entered the Promised Land, then certainly we are to follow His footsteps and be obedient to the leading of the Spirit. By which Spirit we are led to fulfill the Law through love. It is they who keep the commandments and the faith of Christ who shall obtain that which our Lord leads to.
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Yes, I agree with that. Though you cannot often know how people will take your words. I agree if your intent was not rudeness then you have done nothing wrong. You then know how to deal with that person better in the future.
Actually that makes me think of another aspect of love that has been on my heart a lot lately. Love does care about that kind of thing. It cares how people receive what we say, and we have an obligation to try to understand them and know where they are coming from. I believe that too is part of love.
Actually that makes me think of another aspect of love that has been on my heart a lot lately. Love does care about that kind of thing. It cares how people receive what we say, and we have an obligation to try to understand them and know where they are coming from. I believe that too is part of love.
I love that last part. Took me a while to grasp it. But if I hurt someone intentionally with words, it's just as bad as cutting their ear off, y'know. Whatever my motive is, it's not 'good', in the sense that counts. it may be 'admirable' by some, but if I had 'let the guard walk on past', so to speak, I probably would be looked upon a lot better, y'know? 
Galatians 5:1-5
1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
You didn't say we trust in God to lead us home. You said strive to obey the commandments. That's a pretty big difference wouldn't you say??
Is placing our trust in Him a work? I don't know, its kind of a weird question... Maybe for some it is...??
I'm not sure what it is that you don't understand. The statement is pretty simple.
It is impossible for you to get there by your work.
Sometimes it seems as though you understand and other times you don't.
If your whole point was "be led by God" I would have liked your post and that would have been the end of it.
C
Grandpa,
Before we continue, could we address those three verses in Revelation?
But yes, during our walk with Him, we ARE TO STRIVE to obey and that obedeince itself keeps us obedient to God's will and by such we fulfill the Law, just as our Lord did in His faith based walk. A walk without obedience to His guidance can only keep one in the same spot until that one trusts Him enough to lead him onward.
Before we continue, could we address those three verses in Revelation?
But yes, during our walk with Him, we ARE TO STRIVE to obey and that obedeince itself keeps us obedient to God's will and by such we fulfill the Law, just as our Lord did in His faith based walk. A walk without obedience to His guidance can only keep one in the same spot until that one trusts Him enough to lead him onward.
Maybe if you showed some NT scripture that says we are to strive to keep the 10 commandments what you are saying would start to make some sense??
The only striving I see is either being led by the spirit or by the flesh.
Galatians 5:17-18
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
The act of striving is walking in the flesh, isn't it. When we are reading our bible and praying and meditating on His word is there any striving in that??
There is a rest for the people of God...
Hebrews 4:9-14
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
The only striving I see is either being led by the spirit or by the flesh.
Galatians 5:17-18
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
The act of striving is walking in the flesh, isn't it. When we are reading our bible and praying and meditating on His word is there any striving in that??
There is a rest for the people of God...
Hebrews 4:9-14
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.