Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

[eternally-gratefull]

You are wrong EG. There wouldn't be these warnings against backsliding if it couldn't happen, neither would the words backslide and apostasy exist. As I have said before you cannot depart from the faith if you are not one of the faithful. And if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and turns to evil, he will die for it.”

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

1 Timothy 1:19 Holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,

2 Peter 2:15 Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam,

2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

2 Peter 2:21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

Ezekiel 33:18 “If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it.”

Galations 5:4-7 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love. You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?

Hebrews 6:4 “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”

Hebrews 10:26-29 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 12:15-17 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.

Hebrews 3:12-14,18 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end....And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient?

Luke 9:62 Jesus said to him, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.”

Proverbs 21:16 “A man who strays from the path of understanding comes to rest in the company of the dead.”

Revelation 2:4 But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first.

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

Romans 11:21-22 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Dude, If you want to earn your salvation. Feel free. You have every right to do this.

The people Of Isreal witnessed the plagues brought about on Egypt. They witnessed the red sea. They witnessed the rock, the fire at night, and cloud at day, they ate the manna.

They

1. tasted the gifts of God
2. Witnessed the work of God
3. Experienced the work of God
4. Had a knowledge of truth (they were given it)
5. Knew the way of righteousness. But turned from it

most of these people were ever saved, even thought they went through all these thingsd

It is no different than in church

1. Many hear the gospel
2. Hear the way of righteousness
3. Witness the work of God in peoples lives
4. Witness the miracles God performs in peoples lives
5. thus they have tasted the gift of the hs (although they never had it)

It is these people that all those passages you quoted speak of. Not the children of God.

But again, If you want to try to earn a gift. Feel free

as for me and my House, we will serve the lord based on HIS PROMISES.and our eternal life given to us based not our works. which are nothign but filthy rags. But his love and his mercy

 

[Rock022]

Dude, If you want to earn your salvation. Feel free. You have every right to do this.

The people Of Isreal witnessed the plagues brought about on Egypt. They witnessed the red sea. They witnessed the rock, the fire at night, and cloud at day, they ate the manna.

They

1. tasted the gifts of God
2. Witnessed the work of God
3. Experienced the work of God
4. Had a knowledge of truth (they were given it)
5. Knew the way of righteousness. But turned from it

most of these people were ever saved, even thought they went through all these thingsd

It is no different than in church

1. Many hear the gospel
2. Hear the way of righteousness
3. Witness the work of God in peoples lives
4. Witness the miracles God performs in peoples lives
5. thus they have tasted the gift of the hs (although they never had it)

It is these people that all those passages you quoted speak of. Not the children of God.

But again, If you want to try to earn a gift. Feel free

as for me and my House, we will serve the lord based on HIS PROMISES.and our eternal life given to us based not our works. which are nothign but filthy rags. But his love and his mercy

Yes EG I want to do everything God tells us to do.

James 2

Faith without Works Is Dead

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you?15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from yourworks, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren?21 Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. 23 Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another road? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.


There is much scripture that shows us we must work, why do people still deny this? How much work must we do, we can never do too much. Jesus gave His life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me give you a start:

You defend something that has been proved time and time again it is a rule of men. If I was to post here every single place we are told to work, It will be too long. I will only post a few you search the rest.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; the only thing that counts is faith working through love.

A HUGE misinterpretation of the roman church to try to prove we must work to earn salvation.

Read the passage . It is not works of the law. IT IS FAITH WORKING. IN LOVE.. who's love? Ours?? we can;t Love unless God loves us first which gives us the capacity. It is GODS LOVE .. Not our works.

Ephesians 4: 12

to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ

16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every ligament with which it is equipped, as each part is working properly, promotes the body’s growth in building itself up in love

Equip who? Those trying to be saved? Those still looking for salvation?? Well it must by by how you are using this verse..

EQUIP THE SAINTS..

Oh wait, I forgot. No one can even be a saint unless your church considers them one. To bad. Guess these works are useless to us

That verse speaks ot God equiping those who are born again of his spirit to do the works God created us to do (eph 2: 10) So that the whole body can function. He gives us all our part to do Gods will and make the body whole..

But you can't see this.

James 2

Faith without Works Is Dead

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren?21 Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. 23 Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by worksand not by faith alone. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another road? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.

How much work? It is never enough, Jesus gave his life. I already explained to you Catholics know we can not be saved with ought grace, for grace also saves us.

James said IF WE SAY WE HAVE FAITH, BUT HAVE ZERO WORKS. WE ARE LIARS.

He is NOT SAYING we need to work to be saved, He is saying if we claim to have faith. but live licentious lives, we are liars.

The Catholic church is in error. It is not grace plus works. It is grace alone. Which WILL PRODUCE WORKS>


But keep trying to work to earn the gift of God. You will utterly fail. because if you are going to work. you better be perfect from birth till death, otherwise, you have no hope.

 

[Rock022]

You are blinded by the teachings of men. There is much in the bible God tells us to do, yet even showing you the truth you deny it.

This is not a man made belief as you say it is, I showed you and you deny it. Your heart has been hardened to the truth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are blinded by the teachings of men. There is much in the bible God tells us to do, yet even showing you the truth you deny it.

This is not a man made belief as you say it is, I showed you and you deny it. Your heart has been hardened to the truth.

I interpreted the passage as it says it. Your the one listening to men. Your using what they tell you it means and not looking at it for what IT says.

Again. Good luck.. Keep working for your gift. see what happens.

I hope you become a saint one day so you can do those works.. (rolls eyes)

 

[Rock022]

I interpreted the passage as it says it. Your the one listening to men. Your using what they tell you it means and not looking at it for what IT says.

Again. Good luck.. Keep working for your gift. see what happens.

I hope you become a saint one day so you can do those works.. (rolls eyes)

I have told you time and time again Faith with ought Works is DEAD, Works with ought Faith is DEAD.

Faith plus Works Go hand in hand, mano a mano. You can not separate them.

You keep to your FAITH ONLY theory, we know what God told us to do. Stop spreading false truth and condemning people to a FALSE Teaching.

You showed your truth, I showed you ours. Let people decide what they believe,

 

[homwardbound]

I have told you time and time again Faith with ought Works is DEAD, Works with ought Faith is DEAD.

Faith plus Works Go hand in hand, mano a mano. You can not separate them.

You keep to your FAITH ONLY theory, we know what God told us to do. Stop spreading false truth and condemning people to a FALSE Teaching.

You showed your truth, I showed you ours. Let people decide what they believe,

Please read this Tan and EG, and all others For what is said, about works lets please put works in the proper perspective

FAITH = SALVATION = GOD WORKS​

SO IN ESSENCE GOD WORKS = SALVATION + FAITH​

FAITH+SALVATION= THE WORKS OF GOD​

SO FAITHWITHOUT GOD WORKS IS DEAD​

THE GOD WORKSARE COMPLETE IN CHRIST, FOR CHRIST DID OR SAID NOTHING WOTHOUT THE HOLYSPIRIT’S INSTRUCTIONS, AND CHRIST SENT THIS SAME HOLY SPIRIT TO US TO RECEIVE,SO WE WOULD DO THE SAME​

SO FAITH +YOUR WORKS THINKING YOU ARE TRUSTING GOD IS DEAD ALSO, FLESH AND GOD’S SPIRITDO NOT MIX, JUST LIKE OIL AND WATER CAN’T MIX. YOU CAN STIR IT UP THOUGH, ANDIT CAN LOOK REAL GOOD BUT WHEN ALL IS SETTLED THEY DO NOT STAY MIXED. THE SAMEWITH THE FLESH AND HOLY GHOST, AND HAVENO CONFIDENCE OF THE FLESH , LOTS OFSCRIPTURE ON THE FLESH AND ITS’ NO GOOD CAPABILITY.
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement ofthe law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh butaccording to the Spirit.
Romans 8:5 Those who live according to the flesh havetheir minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordancewith the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
Romans8:7 The mind governed by the flesh ishostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
Romans 8:12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not tothe flesh, to live according to it.
Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by theSpirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, thatflesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishableinherit the imperishable.
Galatians 3:3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by meansof the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?
Galatians 5:13
[ Life by the Spirit ] You, my brothers andsisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge theflesh ; rather, serve one another humbly in love.
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh desires what is contrary to theSpirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict witheach other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
Galatians 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified theflesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:8 Whoever sows toplease their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows toplease the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Galatians 6:12 thosewho want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to becircumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for thecross of Christ.
Galatians 6:13
Not even those who are circumcised keep thelaw, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about yourcircumcision in the flesh.
BRINGING THE LASTTWO VERSES TO MODERN DAY DECEPTIONS:
TODAY IT IS NOTABOUT CIRCUMCISCION IT IS ABOUTDECEPTION OF YOU WALKING IN YOUR FLESH INSTEAD OF THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, GOD’SSPIRIT AS CHRIST WALKED IN NOT MISSING A BIT OF INSTRUCTION.
THIS IS WHAT WEARE LEARNING THROUGH GRACE THAT IS A FREE GIFT TO US, TO DIE TO OUR FLESHCOMING ALIVE TO THE SPIRIT OF GOD, THIS BEING LED BY GOD.

THEREFORE PUT NOCONFIDENCE IN THE FLESHPHILLIPIANS 3:1-3​

3 Further, mybrothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write thesame things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. 2 Watch out for thosedogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. 3 For it is we who arethe circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus,and who put no confidence in the flesh—
SO YOU SEEBRETHREN, FAITH = SALVATION AND SALVATION = GOD WORK’S THROUGH YOU, YOU BEINGAT REST FROM YOUR WORKS AS HE RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM WORKS HEBREWS 3AND 4 READ ALL OF BOTH CHAPTERS YET HERE ARE SOME VERSES
16 Who were theywho heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 Andwith whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whosebodies perished in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did God swear that they wouldnever enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
CHAPTER 4:
Therefore, sincethe promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none ofyou be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good newsproclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no valueto them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. 3 Now we whohave believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared onoath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’’
And yet his workshave been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spokenabout the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from allhis works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never entermy rest.”

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest,and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go inbecause of their UNBELIEF, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it“Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in thepassage already quoted:
“Today, if youhear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshuahad given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 Thereremains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as Goddid from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter thatrest, so that no one will perish by following theirexample of UNBELIEF.

12 For the wordof God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrateseven to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered andlaid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Jesus the GreatHigh Priest
14 Therefore, sincewe have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God,let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priestwho is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has beentempted in every way, just as we are —yet he did not sin. 16 Let us thenapproach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercyand find grace to help us in our time of need. God is our friend true friend.Homwardbound

 

[Rock022]

Why do you guys deny so hard that you have to work too? Faith PLUS works = salvation it is not Faith = all.

Faith and believe how much difference is there?
I have faith God is with me = I believe God is with me
I have faith God will save me = I believe God will save me

Do not be deceived please. demons know God, they believe Him more than us but they are not saved why? Not because of faith, faith with ought works is completely dead. Do you want to be dead?

 

[PS]

Please read this Tan and EG, and all others For what is said, about works lets please put works in the proper perspective

FAITH = SALVATION = GOD WORKS


SO IN ESSENCE GOD WORKS = SALVATION + FAITH

FAITH+SALVATION= THE WORKS OF GOD

SO FAITHWITHOUT GOD WORKS IS DEAD

THE GOD WORKSARE COMPLETE IN CHRIST, FOR CHRIST DID OR SAID NOTHING WOTHOUT THE HOLYSPIRIT’S INSTRUCTIONS, AND CHRIST SENT THIS SAME HOLY SPIRIT TO US TO RECEIVE,SO WE WOULD DO THE SAME
<snip>​

I presume you mean "FAITH = SALVATION = GOOD WORKS?"

Let's get this straight, We are saved through faith by the grace of God. As a result we become a new person and people begin to see a change in us which is the evidence of our salvation, these are the works and it may begin with a personality change from perhaps being lazy and insolent to being kind and generous which is the Holy Spirit working in us and this may result in other things as the Spirit leads and as we grow and mature in the Christian life.

End of, we are saved and our salvation is secure.

Why oh why are there all these posts about works. Works do NOT save us and neither can we save ourselves by good works or by any other means.

Salvation is a Gift of God to those who believe.

 

[Rock022]

I presume you mean "FAITH = SALVATION = GOOD WORKS?"

Let's get this straight, We are saved through faith by the grace of God. As a result we become a new person and people begin to see a change in us which is the evidence of our salvation, these are the works and it may begin with a personality change from perhaps being lazy and insolent to being kind and generous which is the Holy Spirit working in us and this may result in other things as the Spirit leads and as we grow and mature in the Christian life.

End of, we are saved and our salvation is secure.

Why oh why are there all these posts about works. Works do NOT save us and neither can we save ourselves by good works or by any other means.

Salvation is a Gift of God to those who believe.

Don't argue with me argue God, He is the one who said it.

James 2: 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

 

[PS]

Don't argue with me argue God, He is the one who said it.

James 2: 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

James is right. He is saying what good is talent if you don't use it, what good is being able to swim if you don't jump in and rescue someone from drowning. It's no good at all.

What good is there in having faith if we don't put it to good use. There is none.

People add to it and say if you don't do good work you are not saved and that isn't true, but as people often say, "If you don't use it you loose it" and that is the danger of being an armchair Christian and not putting your faith into practise, in which case you may loose it and that can lead to backsliding.

.

 

[tribesman]

Don't argue with me argue God, He is the one who said it.

James 2: 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

Just a Q: Do you think these works spoken of by James the Just are to be done to prove to God that we have faith, or to prove to men that we have same?

Who is in most need of our works?

 

[Rock022]

Just a Q: Do you think these works spoken of by James the Just are to be done to prove to God that we have faith, or to prove to men that we have same?

Who is in most need of our works?

There are so many places in the bible teaching us to work, I can not believe you guys miss them. Here are just a few more.

Revelations 22:12 See, I am coming soon; my reward is with me, to repay according to everyone’s work.


Romans 2:6 For he will repay according to each one’s deeds


Luke 23: 41 And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong

Sirach 35:19 The one whose service is pleasing to the Lord will be accepted, and his prayer will reach to the clouds.


Titus 3:8 The saying is sure. I desire that you insist on these things, so that those who have come to believe in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works; these things are excellent and profitable to everyone


Matthew
7:1-3, 10:22, 24:13, 16:27, 25:31-46, 25:40,45

Mark
13:13, 10:21

Luke
12:43-48, 14:14

There are many many more.

 

[tribesman]

There are so many places in the bible teaching us to work, I can not believe you guys miss them.

I don't miss them at all...you still didn't answer my question.

 

[Rock022]

I don't miss them at all...you still didn't answer my question.

The answer is simple Faith with ought works is dead. Works with ought faith is dead.

God Himself has told us we will be judged by our deeds also. Faith has to be there and the grace of our lord must be given. How much work must I do to be saved? There is never enough.

But if you believe I am saying we are saved by our works only, then you are mistaken. But we are also not saved by faith alone. The bible does not contradict itself. If we are told to work then we must work. Why do we have to? Because God Himself told us, not men.

 

[tribesman]

The answer is simple Faith with ought works is dead. Works with ought faith is dead.

God Himself has told us we will be judged by our deeds also. Faith has to be there and the grace of our lord must be given. How much work must I do to be saved? There is never enough.

But if you believe I am saying we are saved by our works only, then you are mistaken. But we are also not saved by faith alone. The bible does not contradict itself. If we are told to work then we must work. Why do we have to? Because God Himself told us, not men.

You are contradicting yourself grossly above.

Nevertheless works have its place for believers. There are basically two groups of people: one who wants to become justified through their works and one who do their works because they already are justified.

There is a world apart in what motivates these two groups in doing good works (as well as rightly discerning what these good works actually are). There are those on one hand who want to prove, or even "gain", their acceptance with God, to God, by doing what they think are good works in order to hopefully be saved through them. These people will ultimately set their hope to their own efforts and boast in them. Then there are those on the other hand who, in loving gratitude, as a fruit of the salvation they have already received, walk in the good works that belongs to them as new creations in Christ and as such being "accepted in the beloved".

Huge difference between these two groups. The motives in works in these two groups of people are not the same at all, they are actually contrary to one another. Why would God be interested in our works in order to save us through them? Our works are to be expressions of our faith in God, beneficial for our neighbor, that we have all in Him, not a way to hopefully, at best, gain God's acceptance. This acceptance is already accomplished by the work of Christ. In which christians have their only hope.

 

[Rock022]

You are contradicting yourself grossly above.

Nevertheless works have its place for believers. There are basically two groups of people: one who wants to become justified through their works and one who do their works because they already are justified.

There is a world apart in what motivates these two groups in doing good works (as well as rightly discerning what these good works actually are). There are those on one hand who want to prove, or even "gain", their acceptance with God, to God, by doing what they think are good works in order to hopefully be saved through them. These people will ultimately set their hope to their own efforts and boast in them. Then there are those on the other hand who, in loving gratitude, as a fruit of the salvation they have already received, walk in the good works that belongs to them as new creations in Christ and as such being "accepted in the beloved".

Huge difference between these two groups. The motives in works in these two groups of people are not the same at all, they are actually contrary to one another. Why would God be interested in our works in order to save us through them? Our works are to be expressions of our faith in God, beneficial for our neighbor, that we have all in Him, not a way to hopefully at best, gain God's acceptance. This acceptance is already accomplished by the work of Christ. In which christians have their only hope.

That is quite an explination to explain what Jesus said. He said it himself and we find it all over the bible. Work wether conscience or not is work. Why are you so eager in giving such a confusing explanation to something so simple. Jesus said when I was hungry you feed me, is that not a work? You want to take works out of the equation or make it something that you do not control, but we do control our works because we have free will.

 

[Rock022]

Here is another reason...
Why is the bible say works with ought faith is dead and in another faith with ought works is dead, yet another you must give it all, and another you must carry a cross. Simple, because God was correcting us, those who believed only in one of this will save you He corrected. So when He said faith with ought works is dead, He was talking to people who believed in faith alone.

 

[PS]

There are so many places in the bible teaching us to work, I can not believe you guys miss them. Here are just a few more.

Revelations 22:12 See, I am coming soon; my reward is with me, to repay according to everyone’s work.


Romans 2:6 For he will repay according to each one’s deeds


Luke 23: 41 And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong

Sirach 35:19 The one whose service is pleasing to the Lord will be accepted, and his prayer will reach to the clouds.


Titus 3:8 The saying is sure. I desire that you insist on these things, so that those who have come to believe in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works; these things are excellent and profitable to everyone


Matthew
7:1-3, 10:22, 24:13, 16:27, 25:31-46, 25:40,45

Mark
13:13, 10:21

Luke
12:43-48, 14:14

There are many many more.

These texts support Jesus who said "for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks." Luk 6:44

Which should not be confused with this: John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

 

[tribesman]

That is quite an explination to explain what Jesus said. He said it himself and we find it all over the bible. Work wether conscience or not is work. Why are you so eager in giving such a confusing explanation to something so simple. Jesus said when I was hungry you feed me, is that not a work? You want to take works out of the equation or make it something that you do not control, but we do control our works because we have free will.

You think according to your tradition, saying "we have free will", which is unscriptural. Yes, works are frequently mentioned in the scriptures, but you assume, or read into, some things about such works which are unscriptural.

Let me ask you this straight question:

Do you believe you have to do good works in order to be saved or do you believe that good works follows as a fruit of salvation (i e already being saved)?